Lose the Yardage Markers

[Double Mocha Man]

Consider this.  Regarding on-course yardage markers in this century.  Aesthetically things such as artificial markers, poles, painted rocks, etc. are just not pleasing to the eye in an almost-natural environment.  And they, including the small shrubs, just don't need to be there anymore.  Pull 'em off/out of the ground.  Replant the dwarf evergreens elsewhere on the course.

 

It is 2022 and we have free apps for GPS yardage to the front, center, back of the green.  We have rangefinders for exact yardage to the pin.  Now, I understand if someone doesn't carry/own a smart phone nor wants to invest in a rangefinder.  Courses rent push carts and clubs... why not rent yardage devices?  Or let the guy/gal who wants none of the above just suck yardage from his playing partner who carries a rangefinder.

 

And here's a shocker:  Regarding those yardage markers, is it 150 yards from the marker to the center of the green?  Or 150 yards from the center of the fairway, equidistant between the markers?  Think about it... it can't be both.

 

As an example, to make things clearer... take the driving range.  On this range teeing areas run straight across the range.  And at 250 yards there is a tall net (to keep long hitters from hitting the houses beyond) that runs parallel to the tee ground.  Say you set up one Saturday morning at the far right end of the range.  If you hit that net by hitting down the right side the question becomes "Will you also hit the net if you aim for the middle section, down the center of the range?  Will you even get close to it if you aim cross range to the left side?"  Of course not.

 

Therein lies the problem with yardage markers on the course.

 

Besides the aesthetics, of course.

[Warrior42111]

I think they can still serve a purpose if used correctly.

 

I know if me and my partner are on other sides of the hole we'll stop in the middle. I'll grab a couple clubs based on the yardage marker then go to the ball with my GPS, that way I have the right club ready and am not the douchecanoe going to the ball, measuring, walking back to the cart slowing down play. 

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, Warrior42111 said:

I think they can still serve a purpose if used correctly.

 

I know if me and my partner are on other sides of the hole we'll stop in the middle. I'll grab a couple clubs based on the yardage marker then go to the ball with my GPS, that way I have the right club ready and am not the douchecanoe going to the ball, measuring, walking back to the cart slowing down play. 

Good point.  I do that, as well, if I'm not walking.  Or, in a cart, cartpaths only, you can do what a slo-mo golf buddy of mine does:  He'll walk to his ball, use his rangefinder, then walk back to his cart and get his club!

[Wham49]

23 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Consider this.  Regarding on-course yardage markers in this century.  Aesthetically things such as artificial markers, poles, painted rocks, etc. are just not pleasing to the eye in an almost-natural environment.  And they, including the small shrubs, just don't need to be there anymore.  Pull 'em off/out of the ground.  Replant the dwarf evergreens elsewhere on the course.

 

It is 2022 and we have free apps for GPS yardage to the front, center, back of the green.  We have rangefinders for exact yardage to the pin.  Now, I understand if someone doesn't carry/own a smart phone nor wants to invest in a rangefinder.  Courses rent push carts and clubs... why not rent yardage devices?  Or let the guy/gal who wants none of the above just suck yardage from his playing partner who carries a rangefinder.

 

And here's a shocker:  Regarding those yardage markers, is it 150 yards from the marker to the center of the green?  Or 150 yards from the center of the fairway, equidistant between the markers?  Think about it... it can't be both.

 

As an example, to make things clearer... take the driving range.  On this range teeing areas run straight across the range.  And at 250 yards there is a tall net (to keep long hitters from hitting the houses beyond) that runs parallel to the tee ground.  Say you set up one Saturday morning at the far right end of the range.  If you hit that net by hitting down the right side the question becomes "Will you also hit the net if you aim for the middle section, down the center of the range?  Will you even get close to it if you aim cross range to the left side?"  Of course not.

 

Therein lies the problem with yardage markers on the course.

 

Besides the aesthetics, of course.

not everybody wants to use range finders. The 150 pole in the center is a good target if unfamiliar with the course

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, Wham49 said:

not everybody wants to use range finders. The 150 pole in the center is a good target if unfamiliar with the course

... but they're so unsightly.

[Wham49]

2 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

... but they're so unsightly.

barely noticable, and it takes less time to look at a pole than have somebody spend ten minutes shooting the pin on everyshot

[Double Mocha Man]

2 minutes ago, Wham49 said:

barely noticable

Everyone's aesthetics are different.  I don't like billboards either.  Or my neighbor leaving junk in his front yard.

[MtlJeff]

Yeah i'm not on board with this one, the amount of golfers not using Rangefinders or GPS even at private clubs is still probably decent. If i had to guess at my club, maybe 50%+ still don't.

 

When talking about the unkempt masses that play public courses this is probably way less. And i'm not sure forcing them to use GPS apps on their phone won't slow down play a bit

 

I don't find the markers that distracting. Most places i've seen use those little dinner plate type things in the ground. So appearance wise it barely makes a difference

[larrybud]

44 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

And here's a shocker:  Regarding those yardage markers, is it 150 yards from the marker to the center of the green?  Or 150 yards from the center of the fairway, equidistant between the markers?  Think about it... it can't be both.

 

 

Since the history of mankind, or at least, as long as I have been playing, it's 150 from the marker to the center of the green.

However, if you have two 150 yard markers on each side of a 30 yard wide fairway, and you're right between them, some quick trig shows that you're at 149.2 yards, so within the tolerance of most laser range finders.

 

They absolutely still have their purpose, especially if they are ABOVE ground, since you can then laser off to specific points from the tee box.

Edited May 18, 2022 by larrybud

[Double Mocha Man]

4 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

the amount of golfers not using Rangefinders or GPS even at private clubs is still probably decent. If i had to guess at my club, maybe 50%+ still don't.

Found this from a 2012 article on GolfTamers.com:

  

It’s hard to say “no” to a convenient device that makes getting the distance you need fast and accurately.

In fact, a poll done in 2012 revealed that about 69 percent of golf players that participated in the poll use a rangefinder.

 

I'm sure it varies from course to course, but I'd think the percentage would be much high 10 years later.

[Wham49]

10 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Everyone's aesthetics are different.  I don't like billboards either.  Or my neighbor leaving junk in his front yard.

nobody likes hillbilly neighbors

[MtlJeff]

4 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Found this from a 2012 article on GolfTamers.com:

  

It’s hard to say “no” to a convenient device that makes getting the distance you need fast and accurately.

In fact, a poll done in 2012 revealed that about 69 percent of golf players that participated in the poll use a rangefinder.

 

I'm sure it varies from course to course, but I'd think the percentage would be much high 10 years later.

 

7 of 10 sounds very high to me. Maybe i am wrong --I definitely could see it among serious golfers. Like of the top 50 players in my club it's probably 90+ percent.

 

But i think a lot of weekend golfers still don't, like dudes who play public courses etc. So unless it's a major distraction (i don't find it to be) i don't see any real urgency to change things

 

as @larrybud points out above using them to calculate layup shots with your rangefinder could also be a good use of them.

[Double Mocha Man]

3 minutes ago, larrybud said:

However, if you have two 150 yard markers on each side of a 30 yard wide fairway, and you're right between them, some quick trig shows that you're at 149.2 yards, so within the tolerance of most laser range finders.

I think it depends on the distance between the two markers.  The further apart they are (a mile?) the closer you are to the center of the green.  The next time I'm on the course, if I get the opportunity, I will scope the distance from both markers, and from the center of the fairway, to the center of the green.  Larry, using your trig, how far apart did you put the markers?

[NJBigFish22]

I have never used a rangefinder or GPS on the course, unless it was installed in a cart.  I used the numbers on sprinkler heads and never found the 150 post distracting.  Then again, I just started back after 10 years, so I would probably be more likely to use now than in the past.  

[Abh159]

I agree with the others that courses having yardage markers has never really bothered me. I definitely wouldn't consider them an eye-sore, and to be honest I don't even know if I notice them out on a course unless I'm literally standing right next to one. 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Abh159

[postfold]

32 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

... but they're so unsightly.

 

Disagree.  I enjoy seeing a barber pole marking 150 yards in.  Of course that's a matter of personal taste and purely subjective, I don't particularly care for some of the other things that I've seen used to mark distance.

[MattM97]

If a little White and Red stick are that much of an eye sore on a course that already has red markers to mark OB then I really don't know what to say.

 

I've played a few courses where the markers were on the cart path and it was completely useless unless you were on the cart path and knew where you ball was which you couldn't see from said cart path most of the time.

 

As for renting out distance devices that's extra money for the course to put up at the start where a wooden stake costs them what $100 for the whole course? 

 

Also while I don't rely on them when hitting into a green they are helpful off the tee if you can see it to give an idea of what you can hit to give yourself a better distance into the green, as for into the green if walking or cart path the ball around a marker gives me a general idea so I grab a few clubs, ping the flag with my rangefinder and then hit. 

 

They're not really useless or that unsightly, heck I see more garbage on courses half the time that's even worse. 

[Double Mocha Man]

One of the courses I play uses painted (red-white-blue) rocks on either side of the fairway.  They're about medicine ball size.

 

But you sure don't want to hit one of them with your drive and go careening off sideways.  Unless you're catapulted back to the center of the fairway.😁

[larrybud]

13 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I think it depends on the distance between the two markers.  The further apart they are (a mile?) the closer you are to the center of the green.  The next time I'm on the course, if I get the opportunity, I will scope the distance from both markers, and from the center of the fairway, to the center of the green.  Larry, using your trig, how far apart did you put the markers?

I put them 30 yards apart, which I figure is a good average for the width of fairways, if you had one on each side of the FW.

But whether it's 20 apart of 50 apart, the difference is small. Even if they were 50 yards apart and you're at the 100 yard marker (closer you are, the larger the error), the center of the FW between the two is 97 yards from the center of the green.

Pythagoras theorem:

sqrt(100^2 - 25^2) = 96.8
 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

2 minutes ago, larrybud said:

Even if they were 50 yards apart and you're at the 100 yard marker (closer you are, the larger the error), the center of the FW between the two is 97 yards from the center of the green.

And who among us is accurate enough to have a + or - 3 yards variance?  Unless you're a plus handicap.

[larrybud]

4 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

And who among us is accurate enough to have a + or - 3 yards variance?  Unless you're a plus handicap.

 

Thus my point. BTW, 3 yards is still more accurate than consumer GPS.

Edited May 18, 2022 by larrybud

[Double Mocha Man]

5 minutes ago, larrybud said:

 

Thus my point. BTW, 3 yards is still more accurate than consumer GPS.

Though I guess I still like to get the exact yardage, to at least limit that variable, via a laser rangefinder.  Just my preference.

[iknowbagu]

I think the markers, regardless of whether they are stakes, rocks, plates, or anything else, give a course character. Obviously they should be maintained once in a while but I appreciate them being out there. 

[Double Mocha Man]

Just now, iknowbagu said:

I think the markers, regardless of whether they are stakes, rocks, plates, or anything else, give a course character. Obviously they should be maintained once in a while but I appreciate them being out there. 

I love the plastic tubes in the ground that an angry golfer will hack off half-way down the post.

[vandyfan]

1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Or, in a cart, cartpaths only,

 

You want to talk about UNSIGHTLY? Cart paths are the very top of the list. 

[iknowbagu]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I love the plastic tubes in the ground that an angry golfer will hack off half-way down the post.

 

The trick is to fill those plastic tubes with cement. Let the angry guy break his club or his wrist instead of the course. 

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

 

You want to talk about UNSIGHTLY? Cart paths are the very top of the list. 

Agreed.  Chambers Bay has no cart paths... at least that I can see.  And Pebble Beach put theirs out of view up in the trees, away from the ocean cliffs.  Bandon Dunes is similar.

[Double Mocha Man]

2 minutes ago, iknowbagu said:

 

The trick is to fill those plastic tubes with cement. Let the angry guy break his club or his wrist instead of the course. 

😊

[vandyfan]

6 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Agreed.  Chambers Bay has no cart paths... at least that I can see.  And Pebble Beach put theirs out of view up in the trees, away from the ocean cliffs.  Bandon Dunes is similar.

 

So let's focus on that. If you asked golfers whether they had more of an issue with unsightly cart paths (of which there are miles and miles on golf courses) or small poles in the fairway...I would bet on the paths. ESPECIALLY CART PATHS AROUND GREENS. I might have to go find the latest "death to cart paths" thread and get some of my angst out there. Cart paths rarely "help" good players.

 

Did anyone mention that you can aim at the yardage poles on unfamiliar courses? I find that helpful as it tells you (usually) the widest part of the fairway at 150 yds out. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by blackbdmillsaps

[bvmagic]

One thing they do help is with people not familiar with the course, gives them some guidance on where the center of the fairway is.  Once played with a friend who was just starting out and learning golf terms, he was laying up to the 150 pole after a wayward drive and said "Be right...."  Gives us a good laugh looking back at that moment now that he knows to reserve that saying for when he is about to stick the flag, not the yardage marker.