Jack Nicklaus Sued by the Nicklaus Companies. 6/6/22 Update: Norman Calls out "Hypocrite" Nicklaus

[rblmp32]

3 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

You need a lawyer to figure out what companies are what.  From my rudimentary research, it seems Nicklaus Companies is owned by 8AM Golf.  And Nicklaus Companies owns Miura and Golf magazine and some other golf related companies.  There is no shortage of pictures of Jack on the Nicklaus Companies webpage and how great he is or any attempt to distance themselves from their eponym.

 

 

Really?  Miura and Golf mag?  I would never have guessed.  

[ChipStrokes]

37 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Regardless of where it all ends, I'm chuckling at the irony that the non-accusation accusation against Jack (i.e., there is no claim for any damages made about the LIV stuff, it's just "PR" tossed in and did get all the media clucking over it) is that in whatever communications there were between him and any Saudis, that he was allegedly interfering with the Plainitff's Saudi deals.  Seems to be lost on this writing some over the top headlines. 

 

 

how does that paint jack in a more positive light?

 

so now he’s not only greedy, but a double crosser. 

 

he sold his name to Nicklaus Companies. then he tried selling it again to Golf Saudi, which would’ve created headache for Nicklaus Companies both stateside and in the middle east. 

 

no headlines here, im reading from the actual complaint, which is written in very plain english. 

[3whacker]

at Jack's age and his current health status does anyone really believe he has hands on day to day control of ANY of his many ventures....

[bscinstnct]

Jack be like,

 

If you look closely 

 

I actually sold you guys rights to Jack Nickluas 

 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

Another interesting bit lost in the morass that constitutes the complaint, is the mention that perhaps Nicklaus may have either found a way "out" in terms of his design business or claims a way out of the original agreement and whatever the amendments over time provide.  So maybe a it's case of beating the other side to the courthouse steps or seeing thee handwriting on the wall and striking some sort of preemptive blow.  As much time and collateral comment in the complaint as there is on the venue issue, and partial quotes from the agreement, that don't seem all that determinative and maybe a little defensive, maybe the next step is Nicklaus trying to have the matter removed to federal court in the appropriate New York federal district from the state court in New York County.  Lots of wrangling the next couple of years to look forward to.

[bscinstnct]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Another interesting bit lost in the morass that constitutes the complaint, is the mention that perhaps Nicklaus may have either found a way "out" in terms of his design business or claims a way out of the original agreement and whatever the amendments over time provide.  So maybe a it's case of beating the other side to the courthouse steps or seeing thee handwriting on the wall and striking some sort of preemptive blow.  As much time and collateral comment in the complaint as there is on the venue issue, and partial quotes from the agreement, that don't seem all that determinative and maybe a little defensive, maybe the next step is Nicklaus trying to have the matter removed to federal court in the appropriate New York federal district from the state court in New York County.  Lots of wrangling the next couple of years to look forward to.

 

Yeah

 

Youre a lawyer alright  🤣

 

🍻 ; )

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

25 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Yeah

 

Youre a lawyer alright  🤣

 

🍻 ; )

 

 

LOL, like many, I've been around a few!  Even Geraldo would have been wondering why they aren't in federal court!

 

I just thought a phrase or two about the actual lawsuit wouldn't be out of place. 😉

 

Carry on!

Edited May 23, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[Greg_B]

2 hours ago, mat562 said:

I've never understood that argument. Jack and his peers were very wealthy individuals in their day. They may feel less wealthy now when they look at a 2022 winner's cheque, but that's inflation for you. Yes, the prize funds have increased in real terms too, but a millionaire golfer who plied his trade in the 60s moaning that they were ripped off by life? I'm not buying it. If you were a top player in the 60s and 70s, you did alright.

 

You need to understand "old retired guy" syndrome. Assume that 20 years ago you finally reached a career goal of being a Vice-President of a corporation or even CEO, and you did really well for a number of years until you decided to retire. Now 10 years or so after that, you see your successors making twice as much or more as you did, while your opinion of them is that they aren't anywhere near as good as you were, being quite clueless and inexperienced in comparison (even if they aren't). This is quite common. I'm sure something similar plays into what Jack (and any other retired golfer) says when talking about purses and winnings today.

[Greg_B]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Another interesting bit lost in the morass that constitutes the complaint, is the mention that perhaps Nicklaus may have either found a way "out" in terms of his design business or claims a way out of the original agreement and whatever the amendments over time provide.  So maybe a it's case of beating the other side to the courthouse steps or seeing thee handwriting on the wall and striking some sort of preemptive blow.  As much time and collateral comment in the complaint as there is on the venue issue, and partial quotes from the agreement, that don't seem all that determinative and maybe a little defensive, maybe the next step is Nicklaus trying to have the matter removed to federal court in the appropriate New York federal district from the state court in New York County.  Lots of wrangling the next couple of years to look forward to.

 

Without knowing what the original agreement says you could well be right. If Gary Nicklaus or Jack Jr. or one of Jack's grandsons decides to go into the golf course design business, maybe ol' Jack can whisper a few nuggets of design advice into their ears and they can then promote themselves as having access to that. Or any number of other things could be alleged, who knows.

[CasualLie]

7 minutes ago, Greg_B said:

You need to understand "old retired guy" syndrome. Assume that 20 years ago you finally reached a career goal of being a Vice-President of a corporation or even CEO, and you did really well for a number of years until you decided to retire. Now 10 years or so after that, you see your successors making twice as much or more as you did, while your opinion of them is that they aren't anywhere near as good as you were, being quite clueless and inexperienced in comparison (even if they aren't). This is quite common. I'm sure something similar plays into what Jack (and any other retired golfer) says when talking about purses and winnings today.

 

Ya, except being a successful CEO requires many talents.  Jack has had one talent - golfing.  Everything else pretty much zero talent.  Not a bad deal for him, but oh that ego...it's hard for some to lay that down, 

[Ferguson]

Ever tried Jack's ice cream?   

 

Now that's grounds for a lawsuit. 

 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

53 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

Ever tried Jack's ice cream?   

 

Now that's grounds for a lawsuit. 

 

 

 

 

A local ice cream/milk/whatever route service was able to get it many years ago and I tried some - it was okay, lol, but it's Nicklaus Companies' baby now! Maybe that's what they are really upset about.

[Greg_B]

2 hours ago, CasualLie said:

 

Ya, except being a successful CEO requires many talents.  Jack has had one talent - golfing.  Everything else pretty much zero talent.  Not a bad deal for him, but oh that ego...it's hard for some to lay that down, 

 

Jack's talent was attaching his name to a number of pursuits after he was no longer an active golfer. He was successful at a few and unsuccessful at a bunch.

[Crn50]

11 hours ago, hammersia said:

Seems a bit weird you would pay a 70 year old (at the time) loads of money for personal services work, not knowing for how long you would get those services?

We're talking about a Iconic Golfer....

[Hawkeye77]

11 hours ago, hammersia said:

Seems a bit weird you would pay a 70 year old (at the time) loads of money for personal services work, not knowing for how long you would get those services?

He's continued to design golf courses via Nicklaus Companies so I'm assuming there was a bit of value there.  It doesn't appear that he got "x" dollars and then got nothing more after that or just did things that were personal services, but lots of details unknown.

[miamistomp]

3 hours ago, Greg_B said:

You need to understand "old retired guy" syndrome. Assume that 20 years ago you finally reached a career goal of being a Vice-President of a corporation or even CEO, and you did really well for a number of years until you decided to retire. Now 10 years or so after that, you see your successors making twice as much or more as you did, while your opinion of them is that they aren't anywhere near as good as you were, being quite clueless and inexperienced in comparison (even if they aren't). This is quite common. I'm sure something similar plays into what Jack (and any other retired golfer) says when talking about purses and winnings today.

 That supposedly was why Hogan would not speak to Palmer

   Thought he made too much money compared to Hogan's era

[ChipStrokes]

5 minutes ago, miamistomp said:

 That supposedly was why Hogan would not speak to Palmer

   Thought he made too much money compared to Hogan's era

so “hogan’s secret” is that he was just really jealous?

[miamistomp]

4 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Jack be like,

 

If you look closely 

 

I actually sold you guys rights to Jack Nickluas 

 

 

 

 Nah - They thougt is was the cool Jack - Nicholson 

[Crn50]

8 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

 

 

 

And Jack is held in such esteem, and Greg Norman is castigated by all and sundry for doing the exact same thing. Guess he upset a lot of the people in Power because he's a very successful businessman/golfer and getting lots and lots more successful/Richer, I have 2 golfing Pro coaches/friends in Australia that have said Greg is in the Top 1% in business dealings in the Golfing world. Jealousy is the worst human emotion because it clouds your judgement, But time will determine exactly what truth is in all our surmised opinion...

[Chunkitgood]

Looks to me like these guys think that when they bought the assets of GBI they bought the man Jack Nicklaus.

 

It’s either incredibly naive or more likely malicious to give the unsupported words of a lawsuit any meaning whatsoever.

 

The details of whether Nicklaus individually had any duty or obligation to the guys suing seems to be sort of glossed over, meaning probably there wasn’t any.

[Ferguson]

6 hours ago, djmohab2 said:

But I'm willing to bet the majority of people will give Jack the grandpa pass instead of excoriating him like they did to FIGJAM

 

 

Phil never gets a pass.

 

The jury is still out on Jack.

[me05501]

13 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

Looks to me like these guys think that when they bought the assets of GBI they bought the man Jack Nicklaus.

 

It’s either incredibly naive or more likely malicious to give the unsupported words of a lawsuit any meaning whatsoever.

 

The details of whether Nicklaus individually had any duty or obligation to the guys suing seems to be sort of glossed over, meaning probably there wasn’t any.

Did you read the court document?

[Ferguson]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

A local ice cream/milk/whatever route service was able to get it many years ago and I tried some - it was okay, lol, but it's Nicklaus Companies' baby now! Maybe that's what they are really upset about.

 

Word is "they" found fewer than 5 full pistachios in a quart of Jack's Pistachio Delight and nothing that resembled an Almond his "Almond is Joy."

 

[bscinstnct]

20 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

Looks to me like these guys think that when they bought the assets of GBI they bought the man Jack Nicklaus.

 

It’s either incredibly naive or more likely malicious to give the unsupported words of a lawsuit any meaning whatsoever.

 

The details of whether Nicklaus individually had any duty or obligation to the guys suing seems to be sort of glossed over, meaning probably there wasn’t any.

 

Oh yeah, they just gave Jack 140MM

 

 

Cause lawyers are such nice guys!  🤣

[me05501]

5 hours ago, LeoLeo99 said:

You need a lawyer to figure out what companies are what.  From my rudimentary research, it seems Nicklaus Companies is owned by 8AM Golf.  And Nicklaus Companies owns Miura and Golf magazine and some other golf related companies.  There is no shortage of pictures of Jack on the Nicklaus Companies webpage and how great he is or any attempt to distance themselves from their eponym.

This is exactly the point of the suit. Nicklaus Companies paid Jack all that money fifteen years ago for the perpetual rights to use those images. If anyone else starts using those images to promote any golf-related business it chips away at the value of their investment. That’s what they’re suing to protect. 
 

If you read the legal document (which few posting here seem to have done) you’ll see that Nicklaus Companies agreed to let Jack review and approve deals within a 15-day window. He had the right to say “don’t put my picture on a box of golf balls” or “I won’t have my name on a course in Russia.” It was a partnership up to a point. But the rights to use his name, Golden Bear nickname and logo, etc all belong to Nicklaus Companies. 
 

What did the LIV league want from Jack if not his name and image? What would a video game company want from him other than his name and image? 
 

It’s clear from the complaint that Jack has repeatedly tried to blur the meaning of what it means to have Jack Nicklaus involved a project. What the third parties seem to have learned is that he didn’t own and control his own image, and what he could offer otherwise had little to no value to them. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by me05501

[Chunkitgood]

6 minutes ago, me05501 said:

Did you read the court document?

Scanned the first few pages, did not see any reference to any document or anything else that would impose a duty or obligation on Nicklaus personally, just the type of language you would normally see when people are trying to avoid discussing such things because there is nothing there.

 

Seems there was a company controlled by Nicklaus which transferred some assets to an LLC of which Nicklaus, the company, and the plaintiffs are members, with the intent of having that LLC exploit those assets.  Nothing to stop Nicklaus from doing other things he wants to do.

 

If there were a non-compete, for example, I would expect them to say it upfront, same as if the LLC documents imposed some duty of Nicklaus.

 

I won’t read it all, but you can and tell us what document or law put some obligation on Nicklaus personally.

 

I know all sorts of people who sold businesses and would be surprised to find they have any obligation other than to take the money…unless they specifically agreed to it or the law imposes it.  I know plenty of people in LLC’s who are in other businesses that compete with the LLC.

 

If you had ever bought or sold a business, you would know what I am talking about.  These kinds of things are negotiated and put in the documents.  if you had ever been sued, you would expect any such documents, if they exist, to be quoted early on.  Instead, we get “Nicklaus promised to respect out interests.”  Gimme a break.

 

I never bought into the avuncular persona Nicklaus projected, and odds are he is a very shrewd, very egocentric person, or he wouldn’t have been the great golfer was.

 

It’s really just bizarre that people would get all indignant about this.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

28 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

Word is "they" found fewer than 5 full pistachios in a quart of Jack's Pistachio Delight and nothing that resembled an Almond his "Almond is Joy."

 

Full disclosure, the containers were relatively small and the cost special ordered here was a lot more than the local grocery store nearer to where Jack lives I'm sure, so I didn't order any more after the first run. But it was fun for a family dinner we had. Something about people's faces on my food containers - I'll make my own Arnold Palmers or order iced tea and lemonade at a restaurant but don't like the pre-mades of Arnie's (first, the pics and second, they have kind of a menthol cough drop lemon vibe which is off-putting).  

 

Now that I know where any shirt money, glove money, sweater money, belt money, ice cream money largely goes I don't see myself ordering any more Nicklaus branded "goods", lol - so at least this lawsuit has educated me on that so far.  This will cost that New York megalomaniac tens of dollars!

Edited May 23, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[LeoLeo99]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Full disclosure, the containers were relatively small and the cost special ordered here was a lot more than the local grocery store nearer to where Jack lives I'm sure, so I didn't order any more after the first run. But it was fun for a family dinner we had. Something about people's faces on my food containers - I'll make my own Arnold Palmers or order iced tea and lemonade at a restaurant but don't like the pre-mades of Arnie's (first, the pics and second, they have kind of a menthol cough drop lemon vibe which is off-putting).  

 

Now that I know where any shirt money, glove money, sweater money, belt money, ice cream money largely goes I don't see myself ordering any more Nicklaus branded "goods", lol - so at least this lawsuit has educated me on that so far.

My Nicklaus gear consists of a couple $15 shirts from Marshall's and a pack of Golden Bear wipes.  

[me05501]

3 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

If you had ever bought or sold a business, you would know what I am talking about.

And if you had read just a tiny bit further, into pages 4-5, YOU would know what I’M talking about. 
 

Jack was a part of the new company. He agreed to work for them. He continues to collect millions from them. And he has been trying to go around this agreement in various ways.
 

That’s the core of the suit. Jack didn’t sell his entire business and walk away. He sold his name, image and likeness and the rights to market projects under his name. If those projects were engaged he still performed his part of them (designing courses or at least appearing at their launch parties, for example).  
 

It takes some real chutzpah to refuse to read the material and then talk down to those of us who have. 

[kmbean]