2022 Bank of Hope LPGA Match-Play (May 25 - 29)

[JungleJimbo]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

13 years ago. The USWO is a lot tighter with the entry criteria for past champions (10 years). Paula won it a year later in 2010 and isn't in the field. Eun Hee is also ranked 83rd in the world. A higher ranking would have gotten her in. I believe #60 is the cutoff. 

 

 

Any idea whether Eun Hee’s English proficiency has improved?

 

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ji_Eun-hee#Controversy

 

Quote

“After Ji won the 2008 Wegmans LPGA, she gave her acceptance speech with the help of a translator. Some say this sparked the proposed "English only" requirement by the LPGA.^[4] Ji later commented that she felt the proposed requirement may have targeted her and that in the future she would "pay more attention to improving my English."^[5] Over a year later after winning the U.S. Women's Open, she again used a translator for her acceptance speech.”

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/08/29/2008082961014.html

 

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/columnists/2008/09/gw20080905sirak

(Alternative Link: https://web.archive.org/web/20080904071452/http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/columnists/2008/09/gw20080905sirak)

 

Quote

 

“A Failure To Communicate”

Women's tour draws fire after mandating players be able to speak English or face suspension after '09

By Ron Sirak September 5, 2008

With the Summer Olympics just leaving the world's stage, the Cold War reheating in Georgia and the Democratic National Convention in full swing, having the LPGA in the headlines last week meant commissioner Carolyn Bivens was having either a really good week or a really bad one. Put it this way: If this had been Olympic gymnastics, the degree of difficulty presented by the reaction to the LPGA's decision to impose English proficiency standards next year under penalty of suspension achieved its maximum value.

Bivens, trying to enjoy an off-week at her Southern California home a continent away from tour headquarters in Florida, instead had her Blackberry buzz to life with reports of headlines such as the one in the Boston Globe that screamed "LPGA way out of bounds." And when she opened her New York Times last Thursday, Bivens saw an editorial entitled "A Bad Idea from the L.P.G.A.," which concluded by saying: "For the L.P.G.A. to impose discriminatory rules on its own members is not only offensive, it's self-destructive."

Why such intense reaction to the LPGA's plan to make all players pass an English proficiency test after two years on tour beginning at the end of 2009? Perhaps because it strikes a chord that vibrates far beyond golf.

 

Quote

‘I can't imagine that someone who has thought this through does not realize that in opposing this measure they are penalizing the very people they are trying to help.’
--Carolyn Bivens
 

"While we talk about the golf-related issue, there is a massive political undercurrent, with the Fox News fans thinking the LPGA did the right thing while The New York Times can use this as a thinly veiled opportunity to address the official-language-of-the-United-States issue," said one executive involved in LPGA tournament management, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "Keep an eye on the pressure special interest groups will put on politicians, the LPGA, sponsors, individual players and TV" over this, the source warned.

Bivens was both surprised and angered by the reaction to the proficiency policy. "I find it troubling that media that does not know the whole story would jump on a racist bandwagon," Bivens told Golf World. "If these players don't take this step [and learn English], their ability to earn a living is reduced. They will be cut out of corporate and endorsement opportunities. I can't imagine that someone who has thought this through does not realize that in opposing this measure they are penalizing the very people they are trying to help."

In deciding to make English proficiency a requirement, the LPGA has stepped onto a treacherous tightrope stretched between its American-based business model and the rapidly growing Asian component of that model. While there are 121 international players from 26 nations on the LPGA Tour this year, 45 of them are from Korea and they were clearly the targets. Factor in that the tour's biggest revenue stream is Korean TV money and that it is looking to expand in Asia, and it's easy to see the hornet's nest toppled here.

Further complicating the issue is the fact there are athletes in other sports who are not comfortable speaking English to the media, including 2007 U.S. Open champion Angel Cabrera and baseball stars Ichiro Suzuki and Vladimir Guerrero, who are not required to do so. In fact, Major League Baseball resembles the LPGA in that it has players from Japan, Taiwan and South Korea -- as well as nearly 30 percent from Latin America -- yet has no English-proficiency requirement. 

Of the three areas the LPGA has identified as linguistic trouble spots -- media interviews, victory speeches (where sponsors are praised) and the pro-am competitions -- the pro-am is unique to professional golf and is perhaps the tour's strongest arguing point. Ichiro does not have to interact with four fans one day of every week. The cost of entering a four-person team in an LPGA pro-am is around $24,000; if the pro can't speak English it creates an awkward situation.

The language proposal has been under discussion for several years as the number of Korean players has grown. It moved to the front burner, according to a well-placed source, when Eun-Hee Ji won the Wegmans LPGA in June and was unable to deliver the victory speech in English. A meeting was held with Korean players, their parents and managers at the Safeway Classic two weeks ago at which Bivens revealed the English-proficiency plan.

According to the source, one father lashed out at Bivens, who was defended by several veteran Korean players. A second source said some Korean players walked out of the meeting along with a few fathers. Multiple sources said the Korean players requested a private meeting with no LPGA officials, managers or parents, at which the veterans told the younger players it was to their economic benefit to learn English.

"I truly believe that if the players follow the direction of what the tour is saying in terms of learning the language, it will benefit them," says J.S. Kang, a Korean-American agent with Sterling Sports Management, which represents six Asian players. "Maybe now their parents will get the message that [studying English] is just as important as spending an extra 15 minutes putting. If your child has the potential to be No. 1 in the world, it is not enough to be a superstar just in Korea. You have to care enough about your sport and your celebrity to be a superstar around the world and not in just your little world."

Most everyone agrees having so many stars unable to speak English creates marketing problems for the LPGA. The disagreements concern the mandatory nature of the rule, the severity of the penalty (a suspension) and the difficulty in defining English proficiency, a standard the tour hopes to define by the end of the year. "Generally, Korean LPGA players agree with this rule," says Minsuhk Choi, a Korean journalist who follows the LPGA Tour and has spoken with many about the issue. "But they have doubts about the punishment." Choi says a fine would be more acceptable than suspension.

 

 

[Stooch]

Good for Eun Hee, that's a pretty clutch way to get yourself into the US Open

[HankScorpio]

Great finish.  That was exhausting and I wasn't even playing.  🤣. EHJ said her feet and back hurts.  Grueling 5 days but totally worth it for her since she gets to go back to the US Open.  Congrats to her and the other three women just for toughing it out in the desert.  

[postfold]

11 hours ago, postfold said:

As for today, I'm pulling for a Lee-Vu final with an Andrea Lee win.  Which means that it will be EHJ vs Furue and an EHJ win, book it.

 

 

Deserving winner, well played EHJ

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by postfold

[postfold]

10 hours ago, postfold said:

As for today, I'm pulling for a Lee-Vu final with an Andrea Lee win.  Which means that it will be EHJ vs Furue and an EHJ win, book it.

 

Apparently I should take up sports betting. 

 

Definitely seemed like fatigue was a factor today,  Hopefully it won't hurt anyone too badly next week.

[postfold]

Double post, I blame forum fatigue

Edited May 30, 2022 by postfold

[Rustbelt]

Nice finish for Eun Hee Ji.  Congratulations to her. 

 

She became the center of a controversy from no fault of her own in 2008.  LPGA grew with Korean players in 2000s.  Carolyn Bivens, obviously, targeted Eun Hee Ji and other non-English speakers in 2009.  Her ouster probably saved LPGA in 2009.  Ji was determined to learn English after this nonsense.  

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golf_lpga_bivens_out_sirak_0709

[JungleJimbo]

2 minutes ago, Rustbelt said:

Nice finish for Eun Hee Ji.  Congratulations to her. 

 

She became the center of a controversy from no fault of her own in 2008.  LPGA grew with Korean players in 2000s.  Carolyn Bivens, obviously, targeted Eun Hee Ji and other non-English speakers in 2009.  Her ouster probably saved LPGA in 2009.  Ji was determined to learn English after this nonsense.  

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golf_lpga_bivens_out_sirak_0709

Eun Hee Ji's press conference/ post-match interview is happening 'Live' now on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/LPGA/videos/704780540856290/
 

[Golf Dino]

Well speaking of Eun Hee Ji and the US Women's Open, Rebecca Lee-Bentham spoke last year about playing a practive round with the 2009 Winner of the US Women's Open.   

 

https://bit.ly/RebeccaLeeBentham

 

[HankScorpio]

1 hour ago, postfold said:

 

Apparently I should take up sports betting. 

 

Definitely seemed like fatigue was a factor today,  Hopefully it won't hurt anyone too badly next week.

Lol, you were bang on.  Please tell me who I should pick in the USWO pool 😂

 

 

[Argonne69]

Great matches. Congrats to Eun Hee. Why play a USWO qualifier when you can "easily" skate yourself into the field by playing 7 rounds in the desert? Lol. Clutch putting.

 

Great week for Ayaka, Lilia, and Andrea with personal best finishes on the tour.

 

[Lobby]

It seemed like every putt Ji needed to make, she did.  And right in the middle of the cup.

Very impressive.  I'm a fan.

[chillybilly]

I watched most of the weekend play (or as much as I could) to the exclusion of other golf and even sports except the Indy 500.

 

Ignorance hereby admitted when I said 'that looks like Shadow Creek' and discovered that it was, in fact, Shadow Creek.

 

The greens were difficult on Saturday, nigh-on impossible on Sunday.

 

I'm somewhat dismayed by the predominant psychological approach of all the players, namely to be as flatline as possible regardless of circumstance, shot, outcome etc. Is it an avenue to success? Possibly, even probably. But players giving a little twitch when a crucial or match-winning putt grazes an edge and then immediately returning to automaton mode was somewhere between distressing and depressing (for this viewer). Cultural traditions and differences hereby acknowledged, it seems that the LPGA has an Achilles heel where this Vulcan-like suppression of all emotion is concerned.

[Argonne69]

5 hours ago, chillybilly said:

I watched most of the weekend play (or as much as I could) to the exclusion of other golf and even sports except the Indy 500.

 

Ignorance hereby admitted when I said 'that looks like Shadow Creek' and discovered that it was, in fact, Shadow Creek.

 

The greens were difficult on Saturday, nigh-on impossible on Sunday.

 

I'm somewhat dismayed by the predominant psychological approach of all the players, namely to be as flatline as possible regardless of circumstance, shot, outcome etc. Is it an avenue to success? Possibly, even probably. But players giving a little twitch when a crucial or match-winning putt grazes an edge and then immediately returning to automaton mode was somewhere between distressing and depressing (for this viewer). Cultural traditions and differences hereby acknowledged, it seems that the LPGA has an Achilles heel where this Vulcan-like suppression of all emotion is concerned.

 

Plenty of cardboard cutouts playing on the PGA. Daniel Berger? Patrick Cantley? 

 

Some players are capable of showing emotion, and then moving on. Others prefer to be even keeled throughout the round. You prefer to see a few club tosses, or outbursts? 

 

[Golf Dino]

14 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Some players are capable of showing emotion, and then moving on. Others prefer to be even keeled throughout the round. You prefer to see a few club tosses, or outbursts? 

 

 

Lots of fans loved Seve for his antics . . . the swooshing finish to his swing, the many different places that he would play shots from, and yes even to his *****liness at times (like when he played match play situations or his "made up" kerfuffle about Tom Watson wearing a blue sweater on Sunday).   Some called it charisma, others called it a "breath of fresh air", others just loved his never say never attiitude.  BUT, I do not recall Sve ever throwing a club (maybe he did?)  

[chillybilly]

I don't recall mentioning the PGA Tour specifically but I was never a big fan of the dial tones like Retief Goosen there either.  At any rate, the men aren't playing the women's tour and vice versa.

 

The point, to belabor it, is that people's interest in sports is certainly predicated on the competition but also on the reactions - of players, of fans, of media, of coaches.

 

There is certainly a wide spectrum of reactions from body language aimed at shots in the air or putts rolling along to gestures to utterances to smiles, laughs, shakes of the head etc. None of which are shouts, oaths, tantrums or tosses of equipment.

 

Various LPGA figures may be revered for their skill and victories but the ones whose personalities were exhibited in amounts large or small seem to engender fan loyalty, ongoing interest and other so-called intangibles that, ultimately, play a part in determining the viability of any sport or league. If they don't appear to care then the audience may be excused for responding in kind. We don't necessarily need to see Tiger-style fist pumping and strutting across greens but surely these players grasp intellectually that there is an element of showbiz even if they are personally uncomfortable with or opposed to it.

 

Granted, this was a sparsely-attended (invitation only) event. It was match play and involved very long days and extra holes in many cases.  And, as above, the cultural norms eg among Asian players are hereby acknowledged ie being demonstrative may be considered inappropriate, rude, unsporting, drawing attention to oneself etc. This sunglasses-and-blank-mask approach seems a particularly intractable problem.

One competitor provided the 'I'm playing it one shot at a time' answer to three separate questions in an interview. It's fair to ask where the line between sport psychology and mere programming might be drawn.

 

 

[Rapidcat]

These days with social media and interviews, players can show their personalities, interests, even intellects via mediums other than purely on the golf course.

 

Therefore their multi-faceted public personas relies less on their on-course demeanour which is sometimes boring/stoic/emotionless/controlled/focussed etc. You can admire their skill and performance whilst playing whilst seeing a little of their 'real' personalities from social media, interviews and even the little snippets that the LPGA record of things like their golfers playing with pets whilst chatting to the camera.

 

Today there is so much content to absorb about players compared to 30 years ago. I'm not bothered how emotional they are whilst they're competing.

[Raving Shanker]

11 hours ago, chillybilly said:

I don't recall mentioning the PGA Tour specifically but I was never a big fan of the dial tones like Retief Goosen there either.  At any rate, the men aren't playing the women's tour and vice versa.

 

The point, to belabor it, is that people's interest in sports is certainly predicated on the competition but also on the reactions - of players, of fans, of media, of coaches.

 

There is certainly a wide spectrum of reactions from body language aimed at shots in the air or putts rolling along to gestures to utterances to smiles, laughs, shakes of the head etc. None of which are shouts, oaths, tantrums or tosses of equipment.

 

Various LPGA figures may be revered for their skill and victories but the ones whose personalities were exhibited in amounts large or small seem to engender fan loyalty, ongoing interest and other so-called intangibles that, ultimately, play a part in determining the viability of any sport or league. If they don't appear to care then the audience may be excused for responding in kind. We don't necessarily need to see Tiger-style fist pumping and strutting across greens but surely these players grasp intellectually that there is an element of showbiz even if they are personally uncomfortable with or opposed to it.

 

Granted, this was a sparsely-attended (invitation only) event. It was match play and involved very long days and extra holes in many cases.  And, as above, the cultural norms eg among Asian players are hereby acknowledged ie being demonstrative may be considered inappropriate, rude, unsporting, drawing attention to oneself etc. This sunglasses-and-blank-mask approach seems a particularly intractable problem.

One competitor provided the 'I'm playing it one shot at a time' answer to three separate questions in an interview. It's fair to ask where the line between sport psychology and mere programming might be drawn.

 

 

I completely disagree. The LPGA is way more personality-laden than the PGA. It's one of the reasons I watch it. I am really not sure how much you have actually watched!