Switching to Graphite from Steel

[HarborMike]

Well….possibly that is. Quick background; I bought a set of Mizuno Pro 225s off the rack with Project X IO 6.0 shafts (was fitted into Modus 115s, but ended up cancelling my order after week 12 and getting the run around). Been off and on with the club set up. 225s feel amazing and are pretty forgiving on mishits, but just can’t seem to find the middle of the face consistently with the PX IO shafts. In previous sets, I’ve been a consistent ball striker, but for some reason these aren’t just jiving with me. I’ve also been experiencing some random tingling and numbness in my hands as of late as well and have some previous bouts of tendinitis. So, thought this would be a good as time as any to experiment and make the switch to graphite. Going into retrofitting this week at Club Champion to retrofit the 225s. Going to try to be open minded, but hopefully I can find a good match with a set of graphite shafts (hopefully don’t have to wait forever on supply and replacement). 
 

Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts, experiences, recommendations, etc. on those who made the switch or thinking about it as well. Been hearing and reviewing a lot of great things with the tech of todays graphite shafts. Seeing more golfers including pros, fast, and higher than average swing speeds making the jump. Also listened to Harry Nodwell recently make a comment he switched to graphite and is never going back to steel (he’s a 120MPH+ SS player).

 

Quick profile on me:

44y/o

95-105 driver SS (low 80s with 7-iron, maybe even high 70s in real course especially on hot days conditions)

9.7 Index

 

Graphite shafts of interest (not in particular order)

1. LA Golf A-Series or AXS series

2. Fujikura Pro

3. Mitsubishi MMTs

4. SteelFibre 

5. KBS

 

Will also provide an update to my fitting experience this week.

[ephmen]

Have played Recoil Protos, MMC OTI and Steefibers. All great shafts. Trust the fitting. 

[brutus27]

Hey Mike, Good luck in your quest to finding a better fitting shaft. I too am looking into graphite for my irons. Currently playing Nippon Steel Pro Modus 3 Tour 105’s in my 919 HM Pros. Keep us posted as this is always an interesting change.

[JahSteve]

have you looked at UST recoils? was fit into those after a mizuno fitting... Did not go with mizuno's but loved the shaft so much that I retrofitted my Hogan Edge's in them... 

[HarborMike]

25 minutes ago, JahSteve said:

have you looked at UST recoils? was fit into those after a mizuno fitting... Did not go with mizuno's but loved the shaft so much that I retrofitted my Hogan Edge's in them... 

Not yet, will add them to my list. Thanks!

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

UST Recoils or MMTs.  I played recoils for 7 years, now I'm using MMTs.  Either are much easier on the body and you can find a weight you'll like.  For me I went from KBS Tour 120, to Recoil 110 F4, now MMT 95, might take 9 holes or so to get used to, but so worth it.

[Jmccas]

I would agree with Recoils or MMT. Steelfiber felt a little boardy to me but I’m also sensitive to that. I just ordered a set with Recoils. I’ve got similar swing speed to you but on the lower end.  
 

Project X shafts seem to act like a tuning fork for vibrations. 

[me05501]

Our specs are pretty similar. My favorite shafts in steel are Modus 120 stiff. 

 

I just spent the last year or so trading through a bunch of sets with various graphite shafts in them including MMT's, AD DI 95s, Ozik Matrix, various Recoils and others. 

 

I think the most important thing to nail down is the shaft weight. A bunch of the shafts I tried were 95-100 grams and I never got comfortable with any of those. Once I went back into the 110-120g weight range I started to find my rhythm again. 

 

I've finally found a graphite shaft I like as well as the Modus 120's, and it's the Steelfiber FC115 in stiff. FC stands for "flight control." These shafts are designed to help each iron through your set launch on a similar trajectory. 

 

Like others I had tried the Steelfiber "i" series in stiff and found them to play and feel really stout. The FC series is totally different. Very smooth and easy to launch. The heavier weight helps my tempo a ton. I'm finally hitting good irons shots again. 

[aenemated]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

Like others I had tried the Steelfiber "i" series in stiff and found them to play and feel really stout.

 

It's funny cuz this reputation is why I initially didn't even try the SFs. After 2 months or so with the MMTs, though, I still wanted to give them a go and went with my gut on the i95 stiff. And I love 'em. (Anyone want a set of MMT 105 stiff?) 

 

I guess my "feels really stable" is others' "feels really stout." And I've never been a fan of that feel but love whatever it is in the i95s. 

 

Which takes me back to my standard advice on this subject - try as many as you can. Literally everything I read about the i95s (or really SF as a whole) said "you ain't gonna dig these, bro." But here we are. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by aenemated

[me05501]

3 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

It's funny cuz this reputation is why I initially didn't even try the SFs. After 2 months or so with the MMTs, though, I still wanted to give them a go and went with my gut on the i95 stiff. And I love 'em. (Anyone want a set of MMT 105 stiff?) 

 

I guess my "feels really stable" is others' "feels really stout." And I've never been a fan of that feel but love whatever it is in the i95s. 

 

Which takes me back to my standard advice on this subject - try as many as you can. Literally everything I read about the i95s (or really SF as a whole) said "you ain't gonna dig these, bro." But here we are. 

 

I think I'd love them in regular flex. I've always been more of a 5.75 than 6.0 player if that makes sense. I loved the Callaway "Firm" flex when it was available. 

[HarborMike]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

Our specs are pretty similar. My favorite shafts in steel are Modus 120 stiff. 

 

I just spent the last year or so trading through a bunch of sets with various graphite shafts in them including MMT's, AD DI 95s, Ozik Matrix, various Recoils and others. 

 

I think the most important thing to nail down is the shaft weight. A bunch of the shafts I tried were 95-100 grams and I never got comfortable with any of those. Once I went back into the 110-120g weight range I started to find my rhythm again. 

 

I've finally found a graphite shaft I like as well as the Modus 120's, and it's the Steelfiber FC115 in stiff. FC stands for "flight control." These shafts are designed to help each iron through your set launch on a similar trajectory. 

 

Like others I had tried the Steelfiber "i" series in stiff and found them to play and feel really stout. The FC series is totally different. Very smooth and easy to launch. The heavier weight helps my tempo a ton. I'm finally hitting good irons shots again. 

Thank you for sharing your experience. Also curious; when reading a lot of reviews and players switching over, it seems a lot of them go down quite a bit in weight with not too many doing a 1 to 1 move in the same weight. May just be a ‘depends on player and shaft response’ but what is the reason for the drastic weight change? Think I read somewhere where quite a few players dropped anywhere between same weight to 10-15g.

[roundersmitty]

I have the same swing speeds as you do.   In 2018 I went from s300 Mizuno mp54 to Steelfiber i95s TM P770s.  Only because the price was impossible to refused. It took awhile to adjust. The weight difference was 30+grams which is not recommended.   This year went back to steel with elevate tour vvs stiff shafts from pxg.   Was a much easier transition, and my tempo felt better right away.  Shafts are a bit softer than the graphite with a more solid “clicky” feeling.  

[me05501]

27 minutes ago, HarborMike said:

Thank you for sharing your experience. Also curious; when reading a lot of reviews and players switching over, it seems a lot of them go down quite a bit in weight with not too many doing a 1 to 1 move in the same weight. May just be a ‘depends on player and shaft response’ but what is the reason for the drastic weight change? Think I read somewhere where quite a few players dropped anywhere between same weight to 10-15g.

I think there are just way more shafts available in the 95-100g range. I couldn’t get used to them. I hooked my irons for almost a year before I went back to a heavier shaft. 

[llewol007]

I’ve had tries with KBs, Steelfibers and mmt’s and recoils. For me KBs’s are smooth but make sure your get the right weight. Flex is pretty similar to what you would play in steel. mMt’s are my least favorite and are a bit harsh for my taste. Flex is stiffer than what I found in steel shafts so careful on that. Recoils felt to me closest to a graphite graphite shaft. Nice and smooth. Steelfibers are my favorite and wouldn’t mind playing then if I didn’t have a great deal on the Ad’s shafts that I play now. Steelfibers feel like steel shafts with dampeners in them. Kinda like the Cushin shafts or the Older sensicore shafts. So much better on the joints with not much drop off in the feel and consistency. if you do get fitted, most will get you into Constant weight steelfibers which is not a bad thing. Consistent weight from short irons to long regardless of length. Good luck. 

[Red4282]

There really isnt a drawback to going graphite other than in some cases, cost. Graphite really is superior in every way. Just make sure you get in the right weight class and if you go lighter, the balance and swingweight may need to change as well. The lighter static weight you go, the more people tend to like a heavier swingweight.

[jeffrey r]

All great options that were mentioned.  I’ll throw the Catalyst 100 into the mix—awesome shafts. I am a SF loyalist—i110 really my ideal shaft because of the weight, but the i95 is great as well.  Recoil 95, MMT 95/105, KBS TGI/PGI—ton of terrific graphite shafts that give nothing up to steel. 

[m3fuz]

Age and profile - we’re pretty similar.  I switched from S300s to SteelFiber i110s (R-flex) and haven’t looked back.  They play stiffer than their tag, and I can feel the club through the whole swing.  Very good feedback.  That said, you listed several other options with their own following.  I tried the MMTs and Recoils, along with other steel options, but the SteelFibers were best for me.  Good luck at the fitting!

[OnTheBag]

All the good shafts are mentioned here.  I'm a lot older and went to graphite kicking and screaming.  Having made the change, now I would never go back.  The one issue I found was a difference in timing.  Took me a handful of range sessions to balance it out, but it was noticeable the first few weeks after the switch.  It wasn't horrible, but I was just a little off on my strikes.  Thankfully, I have free use of a range and the time to work it out.  

 

Personally, I like the Recoil but that is just what fits me.  I also have UST Helium in my hybrids, so something about their flex pattern suits my swing best.  As someone else said, trust the fitting process to get what works for you.

[glm]

I too have never been able to hit a project x shaft

bought a set of ping i25 irons with steelfiber shafts a few years back, I could not control my yardages, swaped the shafts out for the 

TT XP 90 steel loved that shaft. After a few years I started to get a few aches and pains so went to the recoil and they are ok but I'm a feel player and I don't feel the shaft flex in graphite like I do steel and lost yardage. I now have a set of Srixon irons with TT AMT steel and they feel great.

Hope this helps

Play well!!!

 

[HarborMike]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I’ll provide feedback and my experience with fitting after Thursday 🙂

[chisag]

7 hours ago, aenemated said:

It's funny cuz this reputation is why I initially didn't even try the SFs. After 2 months or so with the MMTs, though, I still wanted to give them a go and went with my gut on the i95 stiff. And I love 'em.

 

I guess my "feels really stable" is others' "feels really stout." And I've never been a fan of that feel but love whatever it is in the i95s. 

 

Which takes me back to my standard advice on this subject - try as many as you can. Literally everything I read about the i95s (or really SF as a whole) said "you ain't gonna dig these, bro." But here we are. 

 

 

... I think graphite iron shafts produce even more diverse opinions than steel shafts. All shafts are personal of course but graphite even more so. I played NV105's and loved them. Followed with VS Proto 100's and liked them even more. Installed some Recoil 95's and found them equal to the VS but since they discontinued the VS I switched to Recoils. But like you I was intrigued by so many on the LPGA playing Steelfibers since their swing speeds are closer to mine and picked up some i95's in s-flex and just hated them. Too stout for my swing with no feel and just seemed like every swing was poorly timed. After talking to an Aerotech engineer at the pga show, he had me hit some r-flex shafted irons and I was instantly smitten. 

... I just started playing some '22 Forged Tec irons with KBS TGi 85's in stiff flex and should have ordered r-flex as again they are too stout for my swing. I am more of a swinger than hitter and hit my 7 iron around 170 but will install some i80's in r-flex in them and see if the feel and performance is similar to my i95 r-flex in MIM Tour irons that I absolutely love. Fwiw, I was talking with a friend that is a low single digit player with a higher swing speed and he said he never got along with Steelfiber shafts because they felt dead to him.  Which brings me back around to your original statement "try as many as you can" because we all are different when it comes to feel. 

[bvanlieu]

Since you are at Club Champion, try Accra as well. They have 115g in the 2.0 iCWT, 110 in the i series Tour (can SS the shafts or tip as needed in builds). If you are very sensitive to profiles the different shafts will stand out in terms of what you like. If you are more sensitive to shaft weight be sure to start there. 

 

For me when comparing them to TGI and Steelfiber I found them to feel a bit smoother but all 3 were solid and stable regardless. 

 

Get the weight right first then go to profile....

 

[jomatty]

I’m the same age and similar swing speed.  I’ve had good luck with a lot of the shafts you listed.  I have not tried the Fuji pro or the LA golf though, so I’ll be interested to hear how the fit goes with them.  
 

If you are not getting along with the project x but do well with modus I would guess the steelfiber will not be a great fit.  I’m in MMT 105S right now and love them.  The only shaft I would suggest trying that are not on your list is the recoil or recoil proto.  I’ve done well with steelfibers but personally prefer the feel of either the recoils or recoils proto.  More of a DG feel and l like something a little active with a kick.

 

good luck and let us know what you land in.

[phizzy30]

Like you, I came from PX, but the MMT are in my bag because they're stable, play true to flex and feel great.  I've had the recoil protos previously and they were good too, but dispersion could be off at times when my swing wasn't there.  They launch higher as well.  Tested the steel fibers and they were just ok for me.  I have extensive injuries to my hands and wrist from the past and composite shafts have allowed me to play and practice more for the past 10 years. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by phizzy30

[HarborMike]

Update: Just had my fitting today and wanted to share my experience with everyone (Warning: lengthy wordy post incoming)
 

I was originally scheduled to have my fitting  a couple days ago at Club Champion, but the fitter (Dane) had something come up with his family and texted me to reschedule. Understandable and things happen in life. Was happy to reschedule. Fast forward to today, I sat down with Dane to discuss my needs and background into my game. I mentioned to him that I was looking into getting retrofitted with my current iron heads (Mizuno Pro 225s) and desired graphite shafts but open to anything. Dane asked me some other basic questions such as what is my typical misses and if I chunk it or thin it. I responded that I typically miss left especially with shorter irons but can cover both sides in the mid to longer irons. I also stated I’m pretty shallow and don’t really take divots. Interesting comment from him is he said it’s pretty common for Northwest golfers for having shallow swings since we have fears of chunking or stabbing it into the ground in soft, wet conditions. I then told Dane that I’m pretty much open minded to anything even if it means going into another iron head or even steel, but my biased goal was to get fitted into my current iron with graphite shafts. He stated that to be honest, if we can nail down the shaft, then I can probably play just about any iron head and would be surprised if he saw something that would move me off the 225s since it’s such a good head especially with my profile (details of my profile were provided in the CC questionnaire which he reviewed FYI). Onto the fitting….(apologies ahead, I’m not going into too much detail on shot for shot, metrics, etc. just quick summary)

 

He had me warm up with my 6-iron and of course the remainder of the fitting was with 6-iron heads (yeah, I know. It’s a hot debatable topic on why only 7-iron or 6-iron heads for fittings, but that’s covered in separate posts). We established some baseline numbers and what we saw (to no surprise) was smash factor and distances were good, but dispersion was pretty wide. I told my fitter dispersion and quality of strike is what drives me crazy on the course. I could care less about distance gains and would happily sacrifice distance as long as we tighten up the dispersion and gain on accuracy and strike.
 

We then went into the shafts. Being a WRXer/equipment junkie, I tried my best to not look at the shaft weight, models, and dispersion circles until the end as I wanted to maintain an objective and non-biased opinion and leave it in the hands of my fitter. We went through what seemed like 10 different shafts (some of these were same models but just different weight and flexes). He would hand me one after another and I would blindly just grab the club and hit it without inspecting the weight and flexes but I knew exactly what brand and models for the most part he was handing me since I already did a bunch of shaft research. Here are the shafts I went through:

 

1. LA Golf A-Series

2. VA Composites Raijin 2.0

3. Accura iSeries

4. Fujikura Pro

5. Fujikura Vista

6. AeroTech SteelFibre Private Reserve

 

The LA Golf A-Series 85 S ended up being the best fit. It had the tightest dispersion circles. All 6 of my shots had the balls landing right on top of each other. Of course it’s the most expensive out of the bunch, but the quality of the shaft is ridiculous, you can tell it’s a really premium shaft and has a bit of a matted finish with a unique texture. I also didn’t feel I had to put too much effort into the swing. On the flip side I could really go after it without sacrificing that much accuracy. Was almost automatic. Fujikura Pro 95 was second and had a slightly better feel. Raijin 2.0 was the coolest looking one but struggled a bit on this one (more on that later). Accura was really good too, but couldn’t get past the looks. It just looks too busy at address with all the multiple Accura logos plastered all over the shaft, otherwise it’s a great shaft. Dead last was the Fujikura Vista. I just couldn’t control it. The fitter mentioned he put that one on purpose just for the bottom range. Range of shafts were 75-115. 85-105 was my sweet spot range. He also stated he didn’t see anything that would constitute switching into a different iron head or at least be worth the cost since the 225s are just fine and great fit for my swing/player profile. 
 

However, after about what what was equivalent to a large bucket a balls (about 100 balls in), I became really fatigued and ended up hitting shanks or poor quality of strikes. The fitter stated he could not give an opinion on the last 3 shafts (SteelFibre and Raijin models and a couple other profiles in the others) since he noticed I just wasn’t swinging my usual swing. He said we wouldn’t feel right if I were to spend my money and make a decision today without trying the last 3 shafts. Recommended I come back and finish off with the shafts he had in mind. So we ended up rescheduling for next week. I thought that was really awesome and considerate of him and really showed he cared more about me as a customer rather than pushing a sale and getting me out the door. We ended up chatting about random stuff and getting more educated on todays graphite technology. He also stated he wouldn’t be surprised 20 years from now if steel shafts are looked at the same light as persimmon woods. There’s just too much beneficial tech now and lots of cool stuff in the works for graphite in the years to come.
 

Overall it was an awesome experience and big kudos to Dane for making it so. So far the LA Golf A-Series is in the lead followed by the Fujikura Pro. Will provide additional update once I complete the second and hopefully final session and decision.

 

 

 

 

[HarborMike]

Just wanted to provide an update; finished my fitting at CC today. Went through the rest of the shafts my fitter wanted me to try along with revisiting. These included the same listing above but in different weight and profiles. In the end it came down to the Raijin 2.0 and LA Golf A-Series. Fitter stated I couldn’t go wrong with either. Smash factor, distance, ball speed, launch, finding the middle of club face, etc. were nearly identical. We went back and forth between the two, but I ultimately went with the LA Golf A-Series shaft. The dispersion circles were way tighter and was repeatable from last week as well. The Raijin 2.0 was such a cool looking shaft though, but I couldn’t look past the dispersion on the LA Golf shaft. The quality,  control, and being a bit more tip stiff (at least that’s how I felt) and stable also played a factor into my decision. Ended up pulling the trigger. They also have a special running right now for Father’s Day through June 19 where if you purchase a gift card you get 15% bonus on top, so saved me a bit of cash. Also went with some cool ferrules and Grip Master Roo grips (been eyeing these for awhile) and no the fitter didn’t try to upsell me on these, I already had this planned before. Overall, was an awesome experience and major kudos to Dane for making it the best experience I’ve had for a fitting.

[OhItsStu]

On 6/4/2022 at 1:52 PM, HarborMike said:

Just wanted to provide an update; finished my fitting at CC today. Went through the rest of the shafts my fitter wanted me to try along with revisiting. These included the same listing above but in different weight and profiles. In the end it came down to the Raijin 2.0 and LA Golf A-Series. Fitter stated I couldn’t go wrong with either. Smash factor, distance, ball speed, launch, finding the middle of club face, etc. were nearly identical. We went back and forth between the two, but I ultimately went with the LA Golf A-Series shaft. The dispersion circles were way tighter and was repeatable from last week as well. The Raijin 2.0 was such a cool looking shaft though, but I couldn’t look past the dispersion on the LA Golf shaft. The quality,  control, and being a bit more tip stiff (at least that’s how I felt) and stable also played a factor into my decision. Ended up pulling the trigger. They also have a special running right now for Father’s Day through June 19 where if you purchase a gift card you get 15% bonus on top, so saved me a bit of cash. Also went with some cool ferrules and Grip Master Roo grips (been eyeing these for awhile) and no the fitter didn’t try to upsell me on these, I already had this planned before. Overall, was an awesome experience and major kudos to Dane for making it the best experience I’ve had for a fitting.

Awesome info in all your posts, really enjoyed the read and great to get the detail around your fit. I'm going to be testing both the LA A-Series 105 and the L-Series next week. With the A-Series, did they need to sand down the tip to install it into the 225s? Specs are hard to come buy on this shaft but I gather it is a .370 tip. Is the butt section also oversized in the A-Series, like the AXS was at .660? Or is it in line with the L-Series at .600? Cheers again for the great info!

[HarborMike]

On 7/8/2022 at 4:41 AM, OhItsStu said:

Awesome info in all your posts, really enjoyed the read and great to get the detail around your fit. I'm going to be testing both the LA A-Series 105 and the L-Series next week. With the A-Series, did they need to sand down the tip to install it into the 225s? Specs are hard to come buy on this shaft but I gather it is a .370 tip. Is the butt section also oversized in the A-Series, like the AXS was at .660? Or is it in line with the L-Series at .600? Cheers again for the great info!

Not too sure about the comparisons with the AXS since I’m not quite familiar with those shafts, but believe the biggest difference (other than weight, stiff, profile, etc.) between A-Series and L-Series is A-series is parallel and L-Series is tapered. I actually ended up (in addition to my 225s) ordered another set of the A-Series to go into my Titleist T100S and SM8 wedges. I’m not quite sure how CC is approaching the build for the 225s, but for the T100S, the shafts are .370 blank. I ordered shafts directly from a fitter across the east coast where they did the tip trimming with finished installation and but trimming done by local fitter here. East coast fitter noted and recommended to not sand the tip and to bore them into the head since sanding may increase higher risk of failure vs. boreing them into the heads themselves. My local builder has unfortunately, couldn’t bore the heads but only had to sand about 2mm (which is hardly anything according to him). They appeared to come out great. I’m taking them for the first time tomorrow in a 2-man scramble tourney, so will have more feedback. I’ve attached a few pics on the shafts installed in the T100S with closer pics of the hosel. Everything appears to be fine and tip appears parallel as well.

[OhItsStu]

16 hours ago, HarborMike said:

Not too sure about the comparisons with the AXS since I’m not quite familiar with those shafts, but believe the biggest difference (other than weight, stiff, profile, etc.) between A-Series and L-Series is A-series is parallel and L-Series is tapered. I actually ended up (in addition to my 225s) ordered another set of the A-Series to go into my Titleist T100S and SM8 wedges. I’m not quite sure how CC is approaching the build for the 225s, but for the T100S, the shafts are .370 blank. I ordered shafts directly from a fitter across the east coast where they did the tip trimming with finished installation and but trimming done by local fitter here. East coast fitter noted and recommended to not sand the tip and to bore them into the head since sanding may increase higher risk of failure vs. boreing them into the heads themselves. My local builder has unfortunately, couldn’t bore the heads but only had to sand about 2mm (which is hardly anything according to him). They appeared to come out great. I’m taking them for the first time tomorrow in a 2-man scramble tourney, so will have more feedback. I’ve attached a few pics on the shafts installed in the T100S with closer pics of the hosel. Everything appears to be fine and tip appears parallel as well.

Sweet looking set, looking forward to hearing how these perform! Thanks for the info, I'd been hearing different reports of some people sanding the shaft and some people boring the heads. What sized grip are you running on these? Are they a standard or a midsize grip you have installed here?

[Stuart_G]

16 hours ago, HarborMike said:

 East coast fitter noted and recommended to not sand the tip and to bore them into the head since sanding may increase higher risk of failure vs. boreing them into the heads themselves.

 

He's completely wrong about that.   There is absolutely no added risk.

 

 

16 hours ago, HarborMike said:

My local builder has unfortunately, couldn’t bore the heads but only had to sand about 2mm (which is hardly anything according to him).

 

So this is nothing to worry about.