Unpopular opinion: Pro caddies are extremely overrated

[4thand11]

Stricker won with his wife on the bag.

Kuchar won with random caddie in Mexico.

Cink won with his son on the bag.

Sam Horsefield just won on the Euro Tour with his gf on the bag.

 

Nothing against guys like Bones and Fluff but honestly, how much can it matter when you can win with a random family member carrying your clubs?

 

The media loves to hype up some caddies but they really make a marginal difference imo.

 

 

 

 

 

[RSinSG]

Well, the player always has to hit the shot but the most value a caddie may offer is the ability to talk the player off of a ledge when his internal noise gets really loud.

[Stevens24]

Well Stricker's wife has caddies for him for most of his career, so it isn't like that was a one off. 

You really think Cink's son was a one off?

And Kuchar's caddie was a local who knew the course.

 

If they weren't important tour pro's would be paying them anything and you would have a bunch of 18 year old kids doing it. Yet the best caddies make serious money and do not go without a bag. Funny how Scheffler didn't win anything until Ted Scot got on the bag? 🤷‍♂️

[tatertot]

40 events a year (roughly) on multiple tours, but let's just keep it to the PGA, Champs and Euro Tours. And let's say the last 50 years ...

 

That's 6,000 tournaments.

 

And you've given us 4 examples.

 

That's .00something% ... I'd say that's what they call a statistical anomaly. 

[m d g]

In the original poster's favor, all of his examples would be multiple major winners if they hadn't used friends and family as caddies.

 

So I think he has a point...

[woahnelly]

4 minutes ago, m d g said:

In the original poster's favor, all of his examples would be multiple major winners if they hadn't used friends and family as caddies.

 

So I think he has a point...

 

Don't forget about Faldo!

 

[Blaiser]

I bet for the world class players with multiple wins (like the ones you mentioned) it wouldn't matter too much who is on the bag.

 

A journeyman struggling to stay motivated and focused might play that much better with the right person on the bag.

[mosesgolf]

Steve Williams purposely gave Tiger an incorrect yardage that set up the famous putt on the 18th Torrey Pines 2008 US OPEN.  SW said Toger

was so pumped and amped up that giving him correct yardage likely meant Tiger hitting his wedge too far.  
 

IMO they matter big time. 
Even JT admitted he doesn’t win without Bones last weekend. 

[Soloman1]

There’s no universal formula or conclusion.

 

As of everything in life… it depends.

 

In this case, it depends on what the player wants in a caddie.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Soloman1

[Hawkeye77]

Players should be allowed to wear shorts on tournament days while forced to carry their own bag with a limit of 27 clubs. 

[Hawkeye77]

And Greller is God in a bib. 

[MrParr1Noid]

13 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Players should be allowed to wear shorts on tournament days while forced to carry their own bag with a limit of 27 clubs. 

     

     20 club limit is adequate.   And they have to rake their own traps.  🙂

[bobfoster]

18 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

There’s no universal formula or conclusion.

 

As of everything in life… it depends.

 

In this case, it depends on what the player wants in a caddie.

 

 

Precisely this. No general rule. Caddies matter a little to some golfers, relatively a lot more to others. And golfer/caddy relationships vary greatly. Some just basically carry the bag and give distances, others are almost on-course therapists. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by bobfoster

[Chunkitgood]

The problem with caddies is that they are not overrated.  That is, they are in fact quite important.  Which is unfortunate.  I’d rather see a golfer win more strictly on his own efforts.

[MattM97]

Golfers and their caddies are a lot like MLB pitchers and catchers, while the pitchers get all the glory the catchers are the ones managing the game and their pitcher as well. Same for golf the golfer gets the glory but the caddie could definitely be managing where they go and where not to go. 

 

I'm sure most average guys can play a course with an without a caddy and see a huge difference with a caddy. Shoot there are videos where guys say they'd shoot way higher without one in a round at certain courses. 

[oikos1]

Well, the last two Major winners have had caddies who were on other players bags when they won a major.  Maybe it helps at the highest level, something none of us will ever know (unless there's a major winner lurking around here).

[Gamble Gamble]

2 hours ago, 4thand11 said:

Stricker won with his wife on the bag.

Kuchar won with random caddie in Mexico.

Cink won with his son on the bag.

Sam Horsefield just won on the Euro Tour with his gf on the bag.

 

Nothing against guys like Bones and Fluff but honestly, how much can it matter when you can win with a random family member carrying your clubs?

 

The media loves to hype up some caddies but they really make a marginal difference imo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have experience using a caddie?

 

For us amateurs, a solid caddie allows you to play unencumbered by the little things that are required during a round.  (rakes, pulling the flag, etc.)  A great caddie can take a mediocre putter and have them putting on fire, while helping them navigate strategy and club selection. 

 

A pro level caddie does all of that plus is there for the "break glass in-case needed" situation if the player starts to wobble deep in a tournament.

 

 

[m d g]

55 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Players should be allowed to wear shorts on tournament days while forced to carry their own bag with a limit of 27 clubs. 

Wholeheartedly agree...

 

If I were a pro, I'd be dying to get this bad boy into my bag.

[TobesSC]

Most of caddying is all the work/time you don't see 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

And Greller is God in a bib. 

Not long enough nor enough gray 🙂

[isaacbm]

I know my opinion is not the norm when it comes to the subject. I think caddying is the single most overrated profession in the entire world. There is literally no other profession that people are guaranteed the pay the caddies are guaranteed for doing as little as they do.

   I both played professionally and Caddied professionally. When I played, I almost never took a caddy. I’ve shot multiple rounds of 60 to 63 in tournaments pushing my own bag on a trolley, carrying it, and taking a cart. 
    If I were to take a caddy the only person I would want there would be a close friend/girlfriend/wife that made me feel comfortable and was just somebody to hang out with between the shots. The last thing I want is anybody’s opinion on reading the greens, picking a club, or backing me away from a shot when I’m ready to hit. 
   Again, just me. 

[m d g]

8 minutes ago, isaacbm said:

I know my opinion is not the norm when it comes to the subject. I think caddying is the single most overrated profession in the entire world. There is literally no other profession that people are guaranteed the pay the caddies are guaranteed for doing as little as they do.

   I both played professionally and Caddied professionally. When I played, I almost never took a caddy. I’ve shot multiple rounds of 60 to 63 in tournaments pushing my own bag on a trolley, carrying it, and taking a cart. 
    If I were to take a caddy the only person I would want there would be a close friend/girlfriend/wife that made me feel comfortable and was just somebody to hang out with between the shots. The last thing I want is anybody’s opinion on reading the greens, picking a club, or backing me away from a shot when I’m ready to hit. 
   Again, just me. 

You sound like an accomplished player, but everyone on the PGA tour is better than you and every one of them has a caddy. Maybe they know something you don't?

[isaacbm]

Maybe. 
if I was on the PGA tour I would have a caddy as well. But that wouldn’t change the fact that I think they’re overrated and overpaid.

     Hogan  used to tell his Caddy “ I don’t want you to say one word to me the entire day. Just carry the bag and replace the divots ”

    I imagine more players than you think treat their caddy exactly like that. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by isaacbm

[Big Cat 3]

4 hours ago, 4thand11 said:

Stricker won with his wife on the bag.

Kuchar won with random caddie in Mexico.

Cink won with his son on the bag.

Sam Horsefield just won on the Euro Tour with his gf on the bag.

 

Nothing against guys like Bones and Fluff but honestly, how much can it matter when you can win with a random family member carrying your clubs?

 

The media loves to hype up some caddies but they really make a marginal difference imo.

 

 

 

 

 

You nailed ... these overrated grandstanding nobodies  carry the bags and say ‘ ya ‘ that’s it 

[Big Cat 3]

3 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Steve Williams purposely gave Tiger an incorrect yardage that set up the famous putt on the 18th Torrey Pines 2008 US OPEN.  SW said Toger

was so pumped and amped up that giving him correct yardage likely meant Tiger hitting his wedge too far.  
 

IMO they matter big time. 
Even JT admitted he doesn’t win without Bones last weekend. 

BS 

[OnTheBag]

48 minutes ago, TobesSC said:

Most of caddying is all the work/time you don't see 

As a guy that made his living as a tour caddie for over 30 years, I naturally take offense to the OP's statement.  But I'm an old man and don't care too much.

 

The reality lies in @TobesSCstatement above.  Who do you think spends the time mapping out the course while the player is working with their coach or doing interviews or commercials or sponsor commitments?  The caddies.  We are out there Monday-Wednesday looking for angles and distances, runoffs and slopes, rolling balls on the green at possible pin locations, talking to the grounds crew about watering and mowing plans for the week, the list goes on and on.  

 

That doesn't even touch the therapist aspect of the game.  

As far as the pay comment, most contracts are now between $750-2,000 a week plus a 10% cut of the purse.  Out of that comes meals, travel expenses (which are steep), hotel, rental car (split with other caddies or your player), sneakers (lots of them), etc...  If your player doesn't make the cut, they don't get paid.  I was on the road anywhere from 35-50 weeks a year some years.  

 

Some of the top players pay their caddie a yearly salary on top of the purse cut.  But those deals are limited to the top 15 players in the world and those caddies with a resume.

 

If you want to try it, show up at a Korn Ferry event sometime and hang out in the parking lot.  There will be some no name Monday qualifier looking for a looper.  Korn Ferry and Epson pay $100-200 a week.

[Big Cat 3]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

And Greller is God in a bib. 

Him and Spieth are grandstanding dorks 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

4 hours ago, 4thand11 said:

Stricker won with his wife on the bag.

Kuchar won with random caddie in Mexico.

Cink won with his son on the bag.

Sam Horsefield just won on the Euro Tour with his gf on the bag.

 

Nothing against guys like Bones and Fluff but honestly, how much can it matter when you can win with a random family member carrying your clubs?

 

The media loves to hype up some caddies but they really make a marginal difference imo.

 

 

 

 

 

Stricker's wife knows the game, played at the collegiate level, has plenty of caddie experience. So it seems she's as well qualified on the bag as anyone. 

 

Kuchar won with a veteran caddie that knows the course. 

 

If you're trying to make a point then you're doing it poorly.

 

 

[mosesgolf]

19 minutes ago, Big Cat 3 said:

BS 

I call your BS and raise you FACTS 😂 

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/steve-williams-says-he-lied-to-tiger-woods-on-72nd-hole-of-2008-us-open/

[4thand11]

15 minutes ago, OnTheBag said:

As a guy that made his living as a tour caddie for over 30 years, I naturally take offense to the OP's statement.  But I'm an old man and don't care too much.

 

The reality lies in @TobesSCstatement above.  Who do you think spends the time mapping out the course while the player is working with their coach or doing interviews or commercials or sponsor commitments?  The caddies.  We are out there Monday-Wednesday looking for angles and distances, runoffs and slopes, rolling balls on the green at possible pin locations, talking to the grounds crew about watering and mowing plans for the week, the list goes on and on.  

 

That doesn't even touch the therapist aspect of the game.  

As far as the pay comment, most contracts are now between $750-2,000 a week plus a 10% cut of the purse.  Out of that comes meals, travel expenses (which are steep), hotel, rental car (split with other caddies or your player), sneakers (lots of them), etc...  If your player doesn't make the cut, they don't get paid.  I was on the road anywhere from 35-50 weeks a year some years.  

 

Some of the top players pay their caddie a yearly salary on top of the purse cut.  But those deals are limited to the top 15 players in the world and those caddies with a resume.

 

If you want to try it, show up at a Korn Ferry event sometime and hang out in the parking lot.  There will be some no name Monday qualifier looking for a looper.  Korn Ferry and Epson pay $100-200 a week.

 

No offense intended.  I freely admit that I may be wrong.  However I suspect JT could win the PGA without Bones on his bag.  In fact, he already did, a few years back.  Not to mention JT was a great golfer in college also, with no caddie at all. 

 

Is it possible a good caddy can help?  Sure.  That does not mean they aren't overrated.  Just like MLB managers are often wildly overrated in terms of their team's performance.  The players are the ones playing the game.