Jump to content

Unpopular opinion: Pro caddies are extremely overrated


4thand11
 Share

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, isaacbm said:

I know my opinion is not the norm when it comes to the subject. I think caddying is the single most overrated profession in the entire world. There is literally no other profession that people are guaranteed the pay the caddies are guaranteed for doing as little as they do.

   I both played professionally and Caddied professionally. When I played, I almost never took a caddy. I’ve shot multiple rounds of 60 to 63 in tournaments pushing my own bag on a trolley, carrying it, and taking a cart. 
    If I were to take a caddy the only person I would want there would be a close friend/girlfriend/wife that made me feel comfortable and was just somebody to hang out with between the shots. The last thing I want is anybody’s opinion on reading the greens, picking a club, or backing me away from a shot when I’m ready to hit. 
   Again, just me. 

I think there's a lot of other jobs that beat it.  For example a bartender getting ~20% of all sales from behind the bar on top of a guaranteed hourly rate. Heck in the right place these people can make more than doctors. 

Edited by BlackDiamondPar5
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont think caddies are overrated, I think they are unnecessary. 

 

I would like to watch professional golfers play like everyone else does - by themselves and making decisions on their own.

 

i understand caddies are a historical thing and thats how golf was played way back when and all that good stuff. It's my opinion that they should not be there.

 

Sorry to anyone who makes their living doing that.

  • Like 1

🔹🔹🔹 DSTC@10 + AD TP 6 / MAVRIK MaxTC 15°@16 + AD TP 7 / MAVRIK SZTC 20°@19 + AD TP 8 / Apex 21 + AD DI 95 / P770 + DG105 / MD5 Forged / Detour 2 Mod

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I think there's a lot of other jobs that beat it.  For example a bartender getting ~20% of all sales from behind the bar on top of a guaranteed hourly rate. Heck in the right place these people can make more than doctors. 

 

Real estate agents

 

/Thread

  • Like 3

Cobra Radspeed XB Tour Length w/PX RDX Smoke Black 70

Cobra S9 Tour 13.5 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 70

Sub70 659CB 3-AW RAW w/KBS Tour

Sub70 JB wedges 54/60 RAW w/KBS tour

Deschamps Crisp Antique

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OP is basically right, caddies are like the head athletic trainer for the Golden State Warriors. I'm sure the guy is really competent at his job, if he were to not show up one day then everyone would notice and it would suck, but does he really provide much value over a similarly competent replacement who is waiting in the weeds? Unlikely.

 

The problem is that most WRXers have never played anything resembling professional golf and are not skilled golfers themselves. They might remember the time they took a caddie to Pebble. "Wow, I was going to aim there, and it would have been in the water if not for the caddie! And I thought that putt was breaking right, caddie was right that it broke left! He saved me 5 strokes!" Well you're thinking like a rank amateur, not a professional, and it shows. Pros are mostly capable of reading their own greens and rarely ask caddies for confirmation or opinions. They have played all those courses, done their homework, and know all the lines. So stop thinking like you and think like TW. What does TW get out of a caddie? There are a few things, probably things that you wouldn't think of, but they rarely if ever add up to a single stroke gained over a replacement level guy.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weird thread timing with how much Bones seemed to help at the PGA. From week to week I probably agree but in important tournaments I think a good caddie is valuable. 

  • Like 3

Titleist TSi3 10* w/ TPO 1K 60-TX
Titleist 917F3 15* VA Composite Drago 75-X
Titleist T200 3 iron/Thump 90-X
Mizuno MP-20 4-9 PX 6.5

Mizuno T20 Raw 47-07 PX 6.5
Titleist Vokey SM8 Raw 52-08F/56-10S/60-04L PX 6.5/6.0/6.0
Special Select Squareback 2 w/ SuperStroke Pistol 1.0

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I think there's a lot of other jobs that beat it.  For example a bartender getting ~20% of all sales from behind the bar on top of a guaranteed hourly rate. Heck in the right place these people can make more than doctors. 

The fact is there are literally thousands of people who would pay the player for the opportunity to caddy for him. Any job where the employee can be replaced by somebody willing to pay for the experience is not a necessary job.

Edited by isaacbm
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, DavePelz4 said:

 

Agree with Fergie, of course.  You should see the debate right now on AbaloneWRX.com.  They're discussing knives vs blades in terms of which is easier to open an abalone.

 

 

The WITB section at AbaloneWRX.com is going nuts right now.   

 

Someone finally got a picture of Rex Fendleson's bag. 

He's the GOAT of the diver world. 

 

 

image.png.ef231f376f6fd27f7402c93dd7f9a95b.png

 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, 4thand11 said:

Stricker won with his wife on the bag.

Kuchar won with random caddie in Mexico.

Cink won with his son on the bag.

Sam Horsefield just won on the Euro Tour with his gf on the bag.

 

Nothing against guys like Bones and Fluff but honestly, how much can it matter when you can win with a random family member carrying your clubs?

 

The media loves to hype up some caddies but they really make a marginal difference imo.

 

 

 

 

 

Your entire theory is flawed, just like so many theories.  You named 4 incidents out of 100,000+ and then jump to the conclusion that because of your four instances, they hold true for everything. I assume you've been on tour and have had a caddy to also help you come to this conclusion? What is true, as you post, is that this idea is just "in your opinion". Well, you could also have the opinion that the earth is flat but you'd be just as wrong with both opinions. For every one of those four instances your reference, you can find 100 players who will give massive props to their caddy for helping them win.  The players themselves know, obviously, you do not know. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 4thand11 said:

 

 

 

Greller was a middle school teacher I believe, who happened to pair up with one of the best players in the world.  How much of Speith's success is because he had Greller and not another caddie?  I'd argue zero or close to it.  

Argue based on what exactly? 
 

A real argument would be that only someone with Greller’s temperament and their relationship as it developed would be a fit for Jordan.

 

You simply claim any old caddie would do. Not really much of an “argument”.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to mention if there is no caddy player carries his own bag for 72 holes?  Kudos to Strickers wife and Fanny Suneson.  It's not as easy as some would think carrying a big bag like that for 5 miles per day.  Steve Williams, Bones, Bruce Edwards, Tony Martinez, Herman Mitchell, Angelo Argea, Greller, and Fanny S are some famous caddies that come to mind. Would their players have won as much without them?  Imo no.  These caddies were an integral part of the team's success.   They are a team.  Some really do become Dynamic Duos.  

  • Like 1

Ping G425 MAX 9* Ventus Blue TR 7S
Ping G425 MAX 17.5 5 Wood
Ping G410 20.5 7 Wood Tour 75 Stiff

Ping G425 4,5&6 Hybrid
Ping i525 7-U Project X 6.0 IO
Ping Glide 4.0  56 

Ping Glide 4.0 Eye 60

Ping Anser

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, define "overrated".

 

Could anyway who knows high school math probably do 98% of what a pro caddy does --> yes. 

However, the other 2% is where the real value lies. 

 

Take this past weekend, say Bones saved JT one shot the entire tournament that would only come from having been an experienced caddy. JT goes on to win, first place is ~$1M more just from winning, but then there's bonuses on top of that, more money from appearances/outing, maybe JT is in the spotlight more gets more private investment opportunities.

 

Numbers wise, conservative, says thats $10M extra if JT wins all in, and if he comes in second he stills gets $1.6M, and some of the other stuff, say $2M all in if he loses. So the $270k he has to pay Bones to make $10M seems good in the end. 

 

Could you flip it and say the opposite about Will Z's caddy, yes, but those are the breaks. Very few "pros: to being a caddy, but they are high, vs a lot of "cons".

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, mshills said:

Agree that the answer to this depends completely upon the specific relationship between caddie and player. The caddie is very important to some players, less so to others. It just depends, and is totally situational. 
 

Also…..100% correct that most of the work is what fans don’t see, especially if your player is a heavy practicer! I never got to the big tour, but I spent some short time on the Hogan/Nike tour. This was before the Tiger Tide lifted all boats, and let me tell you it was LEAN financially! In fact I lost money, and a lot of it, out there. Made far more at the club level.

 

Have said this before….I’ve had a great professional career and I like my job, but the most fun I ever had working was caddying, even at the club level. It was a absolutely awesome and I have so many good, and funny, memories from those times.  

Me too!

TaylorMade Stealth Plus 9*                        MCA Diamana X17 60X

TaylorMade SIM2 Ti 3WD                         MCA Diamana X17 70X

TaylorMade SIM2 Ti 5WD                         MCA Diamana ZF  80TX  or

Bridgestone J33 AirMuscle 19*                 Velyx Rome Wildeye 988X
MIURA TC-201   4-6                                  MCA MMT-105TX

MIURA MB-101   7-P                                  MCA MMT-125TX
Chikara V1 Prototype  50, 55, 60                MCA MMT-125TX (8-iron)

Guerin Rife Circle R 400 Mid-Mallet Tour Issue

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

Friend of mine is a dealer in the high limit room at Bellagio.

 

I dunno how much she makes but I do know her shoe collection is worth more than many peoples' houses.

 

Bobby's room or table games?

A bag of left-handed junk.
Driver: SIM Max 10.5 Blue Smoke RDX 6.5
Apex UW 19* Black Smoke RDX 6.5
4-PW: Callaway Prototype PX satin 6.5
60, 56, 52: Callaway Mack Daddy, KBS Tour S
Cameron Select Newport 2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:


 

Wayyyy back I had an issue with the vp of the brokerage house I was using. 
 

I wasn’t pleased at all so I just said, “ok thanks”

 

Then I called the CEO. This was a billion dollar international financial services company. 
 

I shmoozed his secretary and she put me through. Nice guy. The big dogs usually are, as you say, it’s the middle managers who are annoying. 
 

He’s like, I’ll take care of this, thank you for your business. 
 

Next day I got a call from that vp, he couldn’t have been nicer ; )

Just like the old saying goes: "Everyone has a boss, and most don't want you to to talk to them".

  • Haha 1

TaylorMade Stealth Plus 9*                        MCA Diamana X17 60X

TaylorMade SIM2 Ti 3WD                         MCA Diamana X17 70X

TaylorMade SIM2 Ti 5WD                         MCA Diamana ZF  80TX  or

Bridgestone J33 AirMuscle 19*                 Velyx Rome Wildeye 988X
MIURA TC-201   4-6                                  MCA MMT-105TX

MIURA MB-101   7-P                                  MCA MMT-125TX
Chikara V1 Prototype  50, 55, 60                MCA MMT-125TX (8-iron)

Guerin Rife Circle R 400 Mid-Mallet Tour Issue

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

Table. 

 

If she's cute and has personality she probably kills it. Good spot to be!

  • Like 1

A bag of left-handed junk.
Driver: SIM Max 10.5 Blue Smoke RDX 6.5
Apex UW 19* Black Smoke RDX 6.5
4-PW: Callaway Prototype PX satin 6.5
60, 56, 52: Callaway Mack Daddy, KBS Tour S
Cameron Select Newport 2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ferguson said:

 

I know it's been a while but it's time once again for "Ferguson's Post Feedback"  

 

 

 

Isn't the actual job itself overrated too though?

Yes.  The TV commentators make it seem as is if carrying a heavy bag in the elements for 72 is glamourous and fun. 

 

Like the pay sounds good but it comes with a ton of travel and you are paying a lot of these expenses right?

Most people don't consider the cost and expense sections of the P&L.  

 

Maybe some players pay airfare for their caddies but are they paying hotels and stuff too?

Again, the cost and expenses are rarely thought of "in the moment."

 

Plus you lack a lot of control over your career.

You become a glorified servant or taxi driver.  

 

Like i have friends with sales jobs or marketing jobs that are making decent money (say, <100K) but i think they have still it better in an overall sense than anyone but the very top caddies.

Excellent salespeople build a solid foundation of customers.  This brings sales less dependent on price thus allowing less daily hand-holding, ultimately leading to more freedom and the control of one's day. 

 

But i don't find it to be a particularly appealing job.

There are so many other things to do in life. Is there a GOAT caddie?   No. 

 

Unless you hit the jackpot and end up with a top 5 player who is very generous and also only plays like 15-18 times a year.

Sounds like a marriage without problems.   It's rare.

 

 

Perfect marriages are indeed rare....my horrible wife will tell you that!

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Cobra Radspeed XB Tour Length w/PX RDX Smoke Black 70

Cobra S9 Tour 13.5 w/PX Hzrdus Smoke Black 70

Sub70 659CB 3-AW RAW w/KBS Tour

Sub70 JB wedges 54/60 RAW w/KBS tour

Deschamps Crisp Antique

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, third-times-a-charm said:

I dont think caddies are overrated, I think they are unnecessary. 

 

I would like to watch professional golfers play like everyone else does - by themselves and making decisions on their own.

 

i understand caddies are a historical thing and thats how golf was played way back when and all that good stuff. It's my opinion that they should not be there.

 

Sorry to anyone who makes their living doing that.

 

I don't hate this idea.  I do think there's value in talking through shots sometimes but I also think it can be somewhat of an ego trip at times.  I'd love to see the PGA Tour or even the KFT test this at an event - no caddies and the players are allowed to use rangefinders.  For entertainment value I'd love to have a featured group mic'd up with an earpiece in so announcers could ask them after a shot what their thought process was around shot selection, club choice, etc.  Might make for improved pace of play and would be super entertaining.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, 4thand11 said:

Stricker won with his wife on the bag.

Kuchar won with random caddie in Mexico.

Cink won with his son on the bag.

Sam Horsefield just won on the Euro Tour with his gf on the bag.

 

Nothing against guys like Bones and Fluff but honestly, how much can it matter when you can win with a random family member carrying your clubs?

 

The media loves to hype up some caddies but they really make a marginal difference imo.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, it’s your opinion and everyone is free to have their opinion. If we are talking about players like Stricker, Westwood and a few other guys on tour, DJ has got his bro on the bag and they’ve been working for quite a few years now. All that matters is what works in the long run. If you listened to JT after his win in The PGA Championship, he was clear about the role and the impact “Bones” had on his performance and the likeliness of coming out on Top, without his partnership with Bones. As an Amateur with limited access to The Tour and Pro golf at the highest levels, you get to see less than 5% of what’s really goin on between Players, Caddies and the whole team around the Players all year around. In some occasions the Caddie plays a vital role to the Player, in others not so much. As with CEO:s business will prolong quite well without CEO:s and can do so for an extended period of time if the product or service is in line with high demand. I’d say from my perspective, be careful of disregarding a whole group of professionals in one go. I know Caddies who are extremely professional and adoptive to the circumstances, as well as I know a number of CEO:s who are as professional and competent at what they do. Are they having an impact? They certainly do in the long run…….😉

  • Like 1

Driver: TSi3 9 • Ventus  Blue 6X SST-Pured 

3W: TSi2 15 • Graphite Design Tour AD Di ”Black” 7X SST-Pured

7W: TSi2 21 • Graphite Design Tour AD Di ”Black” 7X SST-Pured

2i: 718 T-MB • Graphite Design Tour AD Di 95X

4i - 5i: 718 T-MB • Nippon N.S. PRO Modus3 Tour 130S

6i - 9i: 716 CB • Nippon N.S. PRO Modus3 Tour 130S

W46, 50, 54, 60: Vokey SM8 • Nippon N.S. PRO Modus3 Tour 130S

Putter: ODYSSEY White Hot Pro #7 / 33,5”

Shoes: FootJoy ICON & Pro-SL

Glove: Titleist Perma Soft (M/L) Ball: Titleist Pro V1 (2021)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, isaacbm said:

I know my opinion is not the norm when it comes to the subject. I think caddying is the single most overrated profession in the entire world. There is literally no other profession that people are guaranteed the pay the caddies are guaranteed for doing as little as they do.

   I both played professionally and Caddied professionally. When I played, I almost never took a caddy. I’ve shot multiple rounds of 60 to 63 in tournaments pushing my own bag on a trolley, carrying it, and taking a cart. 
    If I were to take a caddy the only person I would want there would be a close friend/girlfriend/wife that made me feel comfortable and was just somebody to hang out with between the shots. The last thing I want is anybody’s opinion on reading the greens, picking a club, or backing me away from a shot when I’m ready to hit. 
   Again, just me. 

Caddied professionally where? PGA tour? Or lower tours?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2022 BMW Championship - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2022 BMW Championship – Monday Pt. 1
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Scott Stallings WITB – 2022 BMW Championship
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
       
      Taylor Moore's new Ping Glide Forged Pro Raw wedges – 2022 BMW Championship
      Justin Thomas new Scotty Cameron T5 Proto "JT" custom mallet putter – 2022 BMW Championship
      Ping's new Glide Forged Pro Raw tour wedges – 2022 BMW Championship
       
       
      • 3 replies
    • 2022 Albertsons Boise Open - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
       
      2022 Albertsons Boise Open - Monday #1
      2022 Albertsons Boise Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
       
      Ryan McCormick - WITB - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
      Jacob Bergeron - WITB - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
      Anthony Quayle - WITB - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
      Ben Martin - WITB - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
      Matti Schmid - WITB - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
      Thomas Detry - WITB - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
      Nick Lindheim - WITB - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
      Min Woo Lee - WITB - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
      Rob Oppenheim - WITB - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
      Dean Burmester - WITB - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
      Brandon Crick - WITB - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
       
      Cameron putter covers - 2022 Albertsons Boise Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 14 replies
    • 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
       
      2022 FedEx St Jude Championship - Tuesday #1
      2022 FedEx St Jude Championship - Tuesday #2
      2022 FedEx St Jude Championship - Tuesday #3
      2022 FedEx St Jude Championship - Tuesday #4
      2022 FedEx St Jude Championship - Wednesday #1
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
       Marc Leishman - WITB - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      Jhonattan Vegas - WITB - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      Scottie Scheffler - WITB - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      Jon Rahm - WITB - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      Cam Smith - WITB - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      Justin Thomas - WITB - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      Cameron Young - WITB - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      Collin Morikawa - WITB - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      Rory McIlroy - mini WITB - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
       
      New Ping putters - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      Aaron Wise's new Cameron putter - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      New Odyssey putters - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      New Odyssey putter covers - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      Cameron Masterful+ & Timeless+ - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      Cameron T-12 prototype - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
      New Softspike Tour Flex Pro spike - 2022 FedEx St Jude Championship
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 5 replies
    • 2022 Wyndham Championship - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comment here
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2022 Wyndham Championship - Monday #1
      2022 Wyndham Championship - Monday #2
      2022 Wyndham Championship - Monday #3
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
       
      Mac McGirt (Will's son) - WITB - 2022 Wyndham Championship
       
       
       
       
      Pullout albums
       
       
      Cameron putters - 2022 Wyndham Championship
      Odyssey/Toulon putters - 2022 Wyndham Championship
      New Cameron Custom Shop putter covers - 2022 Wyndham Championship
      Axis 1 - 2022 Wyndham Championship
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 5 replies
    • 2022 Rocket Mortgage Classic WITB & Photos- Links and discussion here
      Please put and questions or comments here 
       
       
      General Albums
       
       
      2022 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #1
      2022 Rocket Mortgage Classic - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
       
      Ben Cook - WITB - Michigan PGA Section Champ - 2022 Rocket Mortgage Classic
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
       
      Cameron putters - 2022 Rocket Mortgage Classic
       
       
       
       

       
        • Like
      • 9 replies

×
×
  • Create New...