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Stuck at 13 handicap - playing consistently 12 to 17 over


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I have hit a wall with lowering my handicap. I was at around 18 2 years ago. Now it is down to 13. However, I have played so consistently between +12 and +17. I am unable to break 80 but also always break 90 for the last few months. What do I need to do to break through? Here are some descriptions of my game.

 

Driver: 230 to 250. I have a fade, 2 or 4 big slices in a round. Around 1 pull.

Chipping, pitching: Decent. 1 or 2 thin chip/pitch a round.

Putting: 2 to 4 three putts a round.

Iron: most misses are straight push. Hit about 6 greens.

Up and down: 20%

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Is a brief description of your game to a bunch of internet amateurs really enough to give you something remotely credible to go on? Unless you can give some detailed, quantified stats, like what Shotscope might offer, theres not much anyone can do. Get a lesson from a good pro I reckon. Or do like so many do and take more mulligans 😜

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Where are you loosing strokes? By this I mean, penalty strokes and shots where you don't move from one aspect of the game to the next(driving, approach, chip/pitch/, putting).

 

That's the first step in identifying what needs work 

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To break 80::::  Course management; putting - need to eliminate 3 putts and have more 1 putts; 20% up and down - I am guessing not accurate, but if it is, then way too low.  

 

Too break 80, you have to make very few mistakes or score some to cover them up.   Just based on your 'stats' assessment you are making 6-8 mistakes on the low end.  

 

As mentioned, get some actual/factual data on the areas where the mistakes are and work on those.

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1 hour ago, khalespace said:

I have hit a wall with lowering my handicap. I was at around 18 2 years ago. Now it is down to 13. However, I have played so consistently between +12 and +17. I am unable to break 80 but also always break 90 for the last few months. What do I need to do to break through? Here are some descriptions of my game.

 

Driver: 230 to 250. I have a fade, 2 or 4 big slices in a round. Around 1 pull.

Chipping, pitching: Decent. 1 or 2 thin chip/pitch a round.

Putting: 2 to 4 three putts a round.

Iron: most misses are straight push. Hit about 6 greens.

Up and down: 20%

This is actually pretty straightforward. Unless your big slices are generating penalty strokes, you are literally throwing away 6-8 shots a round near the green.

 

> Eliminate the 1-2 thin pitches. From near the green, get on and two putt. Take three to get down. Not four.

 

> Eliminate the three-putts. That's probably related to poor distance control on lag putts. That's an easy skill to learn and practice.

 

> Turn your up & down from 20% to 30%.

 

That will get you very close to 80, I suspect.

 

The answer is out there -- right next to the short game practice area.

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Posted (edited)

You’ve kinda given yourself the road map to improve. Off the tee distance is fine but the 4 slices probably equate to you having a hard shot into the green already putting you into bogey land if not double bogey. So getting those slices to stay a fade would help keep you in the rough as opposed to in the trees or in another fairway. Second thing is a big one. You gotta fall in love with the short game area of your driving range if you have one. Having a solid short game can save you 4 strokes a round. Coming up short on approach shots doesn’t seem as frightening if you know you have a solid short game to save par.  Then the 3 putting has to be trimmed to 1-2 max to have any shot at falling to 10 or less in handicap. Keep in mind with the driver that it is ultimately a distance club so learn to get the ball out there more consistently even if the yardage falls a little bit and learn to master hitting your 8–7–6 irons. Biggest reason I became a better player was that my fairways hit improved and I dedicated 65% of my practice time to chipping and pitch shots. Sounds like you are determined to do it. If you need a second pair of eyes, take some lessons that focus on specific problems you have during the round. Good luck to you. 

Edited by llewol007
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, khalespace said:

I have hit a wall with lowering my handicap. I was at around 18 2 years ago. Now it is down to 13. However, I have played so consistently between +12 and +17. I am unable to break 80 but also always break 90 for the last few months. What do I need to do to break through? Here are some descriptions of my game.

 

Driver: 230 to 250. I have a fade, 2 or 4 big slices in a round. Around 1 pull.

Chipping, pitching: Decent. 1 or 2 thin chip/pitch a round.

Putting: 2 to 4 three putts a round.

Iron: most misses are straight push. Hit about 6 greens.

Up and down: 20%

In many ways you've answered your own question. Change 2 to 4 three putts into none and you could shave 4 strokes. Do you use a straight flight tech driver? Could help turn those 4 big slices into a more playable slice. That's potentially another few strokes saved. Low hanging fruit based upon the information you provided is get better at putting and fix a driver slice either with equipment or technique. 

Edited by YouDaHamHider
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7 hours ago, goaliedad30 said:

> Eliminate the 1-2 thin pitches. From near the green, get on and two putt. Take three to get down. Not four.

 

> Eliminate the three-putts. That's probably related to poor distance control on lag putts. That's an easy skill to learn and practice.

 

> Turn your up & down from 20% to 30%.

 

That will get you very close to 80, I suspect.

 

The answer is out there -- right next to the short game practice area.

 

Couple questions on this feedback:

  • From near the green, get on and two putt -- if he is not doing that, aren't we talked about double bogeys?  On and two putt nGIR is already a bogey.  Based on his scoring in the low/mid 80's, I would think we're talking about converting more bogeys into pars, but this comment sounds like you want to avoid double bogeys.
  • Eliminate 3-putts: I am a worse golfer than the OP so am genuinely curious, is it easy/practical to avoid 3-putts?  I thought I was a decent putter and have a couple per round and thought that was the norm.
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41 minutes ago, Noneame said:

 

Couple questions on this feedback:

  • From near the green, get on and two putt -- if he is not doing that, aren't we talked about double bogeys?  On and two putt nGIR is already a bogey.  Based on his scoring in the low/mid 80's, I would think we're talking about converting more bogeys into pars, but this comment sounds like you want to avoid double bogeys.
  • Eliminate 3-putts: I am a worse golfer than the OP so am genuinely curious, is it easy/practical to avoid 3-putts?  I thought I was a decent putter and have a couple per round and thought that was the norm.

Unless you're on insanely fast or sloping greens, three putt avoidance isnt that hard. Its also a function of getting your first putt much closer to the hole. Cant help that so much on approach shots but for chipping you need to try to get inside 10 ft. 

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If you’re stuck, and you want large and long-term improvements, get to work on your full swing with a good instructor.  Spend the money, and commit to the practice time.  Good players miss fairways, but not by much, and not with big slices.  You hit it plenty far now, but if you can learn to square up the driver more consistently, you'll add yardage AND have a better lie for your second shot.

 

A better swing (with shorter clubs?) will bump your GIR’s up, too.  But understand this: the difference between hitting 6 greens vs 10 can be MUCH bigger than 4 shots because you’re hitting it closer on some of the greens, AND your misses are much better on the ones you don’t hit.

 

The problem with the short game and putting stats you provide is that not all chips and putts are the same.  If you are 50’ from the hole and on the wrong level of the green and take three putts to hole out, that probably isn’t a putting issue. Same with chipping; if you shortside yourself, or put it in heavy rough, a lot of times it isn’t really a chipping problem.  The best way to have a better short game is to have better misses, and the best way to avoid three putts is for your first putt to  be closer to the hole, all of which comes back to full swing.

 

In the short term, work hard on course management, with a realistic view of your game if you aren’t already doing so.  You fade the ball off the tee; line up on the right side of the tee box, aim down the left, and let the fade work. You have roughly a 2 out of 3 chance of missing the green, so figure out where the good and bad misses are; don’t just get a yardage and pull a club. On par 5’s, don’t try second shots that only work a couple of times out of 10; sometimes the best way to make par is to not make double, so don’t be afraid to hit 2 nine irons instead of trying a 3 wood over water.  On any hole, when you hit into trouble, take your medicine and get out of trouble; bogey doesn’t hurt, but doubles and triples are killers.

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Work on contact. 

 

If you can hit the center of the club, you can develop a predictable shot. 

If you have a predictable shot, you can score and you can work towards being more neutral. 

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1 hour ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Unless you're on insanely fast or sloping greens, three putt avoidance isnt that hard. Its also a function of getting your first putt much closer to the hole.

This is basically it - focused on distance control and got my 3putt average just under 1 per round (in line with a 5ish cap according to Shot Scope)... on average, first putt proximity to the hole for 2putt is 3.2 feet and first putt proximity to the hole for 3putt is 7.8 feet

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3 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

Do you have a weak grip?

Do you practice putts of a variety in lengths, or do you mostly just practice your putting stroke?

Do you chip with one club, or several clubs?

I have a neutral grip. I start to practice a stronger grip.

Yes

several clubs. 

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34 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

This is basically it - focused on distance control and got my 3putt average just under 1 per round (in line with a 5ish cap according to Shot Scope)... on average, first putt proximity to the hole for 2putt is 3.2 feet and first putt proximity to the hole for 3putt is 7.8 feet

Yes, I start to put more time into putting. Hope to reduce the number of three putts.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bluedot said:

If you’re stuck, and you want large and long-term improvements, get to work on your full swing with a good instructor.  Spend the money, and commit to the practice time.  Good players miss fairways, but not by much, and not with big slices.  You hit it plenty far now, but if you can learn to square up the driver more consistently, you'll add yardage AND have a better lie for your second shot.

 

A better swing (with shorter clubs?) will bump your GIR’s up, too.  But understand this: the difference between hitting 6 greens vs 10 can be MUCH bigger than 4 shots because you’re hitting it closer on some of the greens, AND your misses are much better on the ones you don’t hit.

 

The problem with the short game and putting stats you provide is that not all chips and putts are the same.  If you are 50’ from the hole and on the wrong level of the green and take three putts to hole out, that probably isn’t a putting issue. Same with chipping; if you shortside yourself, or put it in heavy rough, a lot of times it isn’t really a chipping problem.  The best way to have a better short game is to have better misses, and the best way to avoid three putts is for your first putt to  be closer to the hole, all of which comes back to full swing.

 

In the short term, work hard on course management, with a realistic view of your game if you aren’t already doing so.  You fade the ball off the tee; line up on the right side of the tee box, aim down the left, and let the fade work. You have roughly a 2 out of 3 chance of missing the green, so figure out where the good and bad misses are; don’t just get a yardage and pull a club. On par 5’s, don’t try second shots that only work a couple of times out of 10; sometimes the best way to make par is to not make double, so don’t be afraid to hit 2 nine irons instead of trying a 3 wood over water.  On any hole, when you hit into trouble, take your medicine and get out of trouble; bogey doesn’t hurt, but doubles and triples are killers.

 

I am putting down a new plan because "insanity is doing the same thing and expect a different result".

I will focus more on the short game. May be 60 to 70% of practice time on the short game rather than 70% on the full swing like before.

Yes, I agree that I need to avoid aiming for the flags and put myself in short sided positions. 

I also need to punch out from the trees rather than trying to for the greens and hit more trees.

I have been aiming on the left side of the fairways. I will try to use the right side of the tee boxes for a better angle.

 

Thanks,

Edited by khalespace
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25 minutes ago, khalespace said:

I have a neutral grip. I start to practice a stronger grip.

Yes

several clubs. 

As you're experimenting with a stronger grip, I suggest finding out how strong you can make the left hand grip before everything starts going dead left. I've had a number of people, who were even worse than I am, ask me for advice. The only thing I'd do is change their left hand grip to a position that resembled a Karate chop at the target (four knuckles). They all thought it was weird, but in all cases, they got better results, instantly. (It's important to note, these people all sucked. I'm not sure if it would get such ubiquitously positive results with better players.)

 

Maybe try chipping with one club for a while (50°, or 52°) until you have much better feel around the green with that one club. Then, you can slowly add in others only out of necessity (60° for a steep downhill with not much room, or putter).

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Of course practice is important, but I have seen a lot of terrible swings kick the bejesus out of me on the golf course.  But then, a lot of people whom I beat regularly are probably saying the same thing about mine.

 

Whenever I read, "I can't break..." I think most of it is mental.  I call it the handicap equilibrium.  If I start off like crap, I will usually string a few good holes together and shoot a score that isn't embarrassing.  On the other side, if I start out hot and realize I am playing well, I can usually scab together a couple of doubles to make sure I get back to my comfort zone and end up shooting about the same score.

 

Depending on your situation and your mental make up it could be as simple as not keeping score, but at the end of the round go through hole by hole and figure it out.  All of my rounds are match play so its easy for me to forget the big picture when I am not scoring (seeing each hole as a game), but when I am scoring I see the whole thing and consistently shoot a score 3-4 strokes higher.

 

I agree with all the other posters, you are conservatively throwing away 8 strokes a round based on your post, but is it all physical?  No one can really answer this but you, but when this comes up the usual reply is to break up the round into groups of 3 holes and then reset, or 6, or whatever.  The ideal, of course, is to break it down to every shot and focus intently for 30 seconds and then think about anything but golf, but I know very few people capable of doing this consistently.

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IMO there are two ways to be a break 80 player, money on the line player.

 

1- Stop worrying about score and learn to competently strike a ball. Most people just skip this step lol. They just start playing golf.

 

2. Learn your misses/tendencies and bandaid each part of the game. i.e. putt when you should chip, hood your face, use hybrids down to 8 iron

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16 hours ago, khalespace said:

I have hit a wall with lowering my handicap. I was at around 18 2 years ago. Now it is down to 13. However, I have played so consistently between +12 and +17. I am unable to break 80 but also always break 90 for the last few months. What do I need to do to break through? Here are some descriptions of my game.

 

Driver: 230 to 250. I have a fade, 2 or 4 big slices in a round. Around 1 pull.

Chipping, pitching: Decent. 1 or 2 thin chip/pitch a round.

Putting: 2 to 4 three putts a round.

Iron: most misses are straight push. Hit about 6 greens.

Up and down: 20%

 

I'm like you in a sense that I'm hovering in low 80s but can't break through. 

I've read books like lowest score wins etc.  That one in particular teaches course management strategy. First step would be to strategize tee shots and approaches to avoid penalties. When you're hitting your 2-4 big slices or a pull, is it costing you penalty strokes? How Many strokes? That matters A Lot

 

The book Lowest Score Wins makes the assumption that putting takes the least amount of skill in a sense that there isn't as much difference between a tour pro VS an average guy when looking at overall strokes.

A pro might putt 28 times VS a regular Joe who putts 32 times which is basically only a 4 stroke differential. They focus on drive and approach accuracy.

I don't think they accounted for the guy that REALLY sucks at putting. 

 

My Putts are 38-40 per round. I mean real true putts from the green (not putts from the fringe etc) 

I also suck at sand shots. On a good day, I'll hit enough GIR and avoid going into a bunker at all but there are other days I get too much ball out of the sand and put it 30 yards past the pin and sometimes into the water on the other side where it costs me another stroke... 

 

Anyway back to you, 

2-4 three-putts is a lot. (I'm like that too) . Have you counted how many putts you take? 

 

I have a Garmin watch that logs all course data and shots so I can review after a round.  Maybe shot tracking for you might help so that you'll know where you are lacking. 

 

For example if your save rate is 20% and you hit 6 GIR, that means you make about 2.4 par saves per round with the other 12 holes. (which is 2.4 holes where you one putt). 

That leaves 15.6 holes.

If you 3 putt 4 of the holes, that's another 12 putts. 

That puts you at 11.6 holes where you 2 putt

4 holes where you 3 putt

2.4 holes where you 1 putt

 

This now puts you at 37.6 putts. 

I don't know many guys that break 80 that hit 38 putts. If you include your 4 big slices and the occasional pull, that's probably why you can't break 80.

How often do you hit a birdie? 

Basically these are my stats and I can't break 80 either lol. 

 

 

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The straightforward answer is that you need to do everything better. You need to cut down penalties off the tee and learn to minimize damage when in trouble, you need to hit more greens, and you need to chip and putt better. Actually doing it is the issue, lessons can potentially help with the full swing, clean up technique around the greens, practice speed control when putting. 

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On 5/26/2022 at 1:24 PM, TLUBulldogGolf said:

The straightforward answer is that you need to do everything better. You need to cut down penalties off the tee and learn to minimize damage when in trouble, you need to hit more greens, and you need to chip and putt better. Actually doing it is the issue, lessons can potentially help with the full swing, clean up technique around the greens, practice speed control when putting. 

This is the key " practice speed control when putting " I notice this when I play with bogey or worse golfers. They obsess with the line and then leave a 15 footer 4 feet short, which irritates them so they miss the next one too. 

Breaking 80 consistently is a totally different animal than a 90 trying to break into the 80's, much less room for error in the 70's. Short game has to grab majority not you practice time all the time.

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35 minutes ago, Ghostwedge said:

This is the key " practice speed control when putting " I notice this when I play with bogey or worse golfers. They obsess with the line and then leave a 15 footer 4 feet short

Agreed - as if they don’t realize that this is in essence the same as having the correct distance control and missing it 4 feet right… they’d be first to say that the latter was an awful putt - but ‘damn, if I had just hit it a bit more I had the correct read’… dude, you’re 4 feet short (or long)

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Sounds like everything needs to improve a little.... at least you have a well rounded game 🐈

 

I improve when I play/practice more in a short amount of time.... its how I level up

 

Practice/playin time is a constraint.... So I would practice more of oneof those skills but make sure not to neglect a little practice of the others so to not get rusty.... So example start with Driver... hit much more driver at practice and Once you level up on Driver move to the next skill.  Driver prob a good one to start with cause its the first shot lol and the short stuff is nice to play from 🐒

I try and like my own posts but can't figure out how...

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      Best driver 2022 Best fairway wood 2022 Best hybrid 2022 Best irons 2022 Best wedge 2022 Best putter 2022 Best ball of 2022 Best driver shaft of 2022 Best rangefinder of 2022 Best rangefinder 2022 Best tour ball 2022 Best "non-tour" ball 2022 Best iron shaft 2022 Best launch monitor (high-end) 2022 Best launch monitor mid 2022 Best launch monitor low 2022 Best DTC putter 2022 Best DTC irons, wedges 2022 Best DTC ball 2022 Best putters over $300 2022 Best putters sub $300 2022 Best bespoke accessories 2022 Best boutique Irons 2022 Best custom headcovers 2022 Best glove 2022 Best golf apps 2022 Best golf bag 2022 Best golf mat 2022 Best golf mat (putting) 2022 Best golf pants 2022 Best headwear 2022 Best net/screen 2022 Best polo 2022 Best pushcart 2022 Best rain gear 2022 Best golf shoes 2022 Best sunglasses 2022 Best training aids - full swing 2022 Best training aids fitness 2022 Best training aids putting/short game 2022 Best travel bag 2022 Best umbrella 2022 Best grip 2022 Best putter grips 2022  
       
      • 1 reply
    • 2022 The Memorial Inside the Ropes WITB & Equipment pics- Discussion and links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
       
      2022 the Memorial - Tuesday #1
      2022 the Memorial - Tuesday #2
      2022 the Memorial - Tuesday #3
       
       
      WITB
       
      Adam Scott WITB – 2022 the Memorial
      Abraham Ancer WITB – 2022 the Memorial
      Patrick Cantlay WITB – 2022 the Memorial
      Carlos Ortiz WITB – 2022 the Memorial
      Emiliano Grillo - WITB - 2022 the Memorial
      Bryson De Chambeau - WITB - 2022 the Memorial
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
       
      Jordan Spieth - Cameron putters - 2022 the Memorial
      Adam Scott testing custom 1-of-1 Miura irons (in-hand photos!) – 2022 Memorial Tournament
      Brandt Snedeker - new/old Odyssey putter - 2022 the Memorial
       
       
       
       
      • 7 replies

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