Trackman vs Trackman

[sfdoddsy]

The biggest selling point of launch monitors is that they are accurate and objective. And thus can predict real world results.

 

I've done half a dozen or so 'fitting' Trackman driver sessions over the years and whilst the recommendations from the fitters vary more than I'm comfortable with, the actual numbers from that session's 'winner' have been very consistent. Mid 130s ball speed, 16-17 LA, +5 AoA, low 2000s spin, 1.48+ smash.

 

Recently a new entrant opened in my town offering unsupervised Trackman 4 sessions for $40 as opposed to the $180 or so for a 'fitting'.

 

The weather has been kind of crappy plus I'm on a bit of a hoing binge so I've been doing a bunch of experimenting.

 

What I'm finding, however, is that none of my unsupervised sessions produce numbers quite as good as my fitting sessions, and there is far more variation between sessions.

 

Ball speed, AofA and LA are pretty much the same, but backspin, spin axis and height are notably higher,  and smash factor notably lower.

 

Is this just expected variation between machines, or do fitters have magic pixie dust?

 

I've also noted that the unsupervised Trackman 4 machines miss way more shots than the fitter's machines.

 

The Trackman at the fitter may have missed one or two shots over the years, but in some sessions at the new guys the machines have missed 20-30% of shots, notably those when I swing too much in to out. The operators say they've never seen such a thing before, but I'm dubious.

 

So, in terms of raw numbers, is one Trackman as good as another?

 

It feels like it should be.

[clevited]

2 hours ago, sfdoddsy said:

The biggest selling point of launch monitors is that they are accurate and objective. And thus can predict real world results.

 

I've done half a dozen or so 'fitting' Trackman driver sessions over the years and whilst the recommendations from the fitters vary more than I'm comfortable with, the actual numbers from that session's 'winner' have been very consistent. Mid 130s ball speed, 16-17 LA, +5 AoA, low 2000s spin, 1.48+ smash.

 

Recently a new entrant opened in my town offering unsupervised Trackman 4 sessions for $40 as opposed to the $180 or so for a 'fitting'.

 

The weather has been kind of crappy plus I'm on a bit of a hoing binge so I've been doing a bunch of experimenting.

 

What I'm finding, however, is that none of my unsupervised sessions produce numbers quite as good as my fitting sessions, and there is far more variation between sessions.

 

Ball speed, AofA and LA are pretty much the same, but backspin, spin axis and height are notably higher,  and smash factor notably lower.

 

Is this just expected variation between machines, or do fitters have magic pixie dust?

 

I've also noted that the unsupervised Trackman 4 machines miss way more shots than the fitter's machines.

 

The Trackman at the fitter may have missed one or two shots over the years, but in some sessions at the new guys the machines have missed 20-30% of shots, notably those when I swing too much in to out. The operators say they've never seen such a thing before, but I'm dubious.

 

So, in terms of raw numbers, is one Trackman as good as another?

 

It feels like it should be.

 

Likely a set up difference from one venue to another, and variations in your swing and contact are the culprits in my experience.  The trackman's if they are the same model (trackman 4s) shouldn't differ too much. The balls you are hitting could also be very different.  One other thing, if you are hitting indoors into a net or screen vs into the outdoors there can be a huge difference.  Distance from ball to screen matters, ball to unit matters, all part of the difference in set up I mentioned.

[tets]

It could be different conditions, quality of the ball, even settings on the trackman…….BUT.. from my experience the numbers I have gotten fromTrackman are not even close to howI perform on the golf course.  I am a plus handicap so have a fairly consistent swing and know my yardages pretty well.  Last month I did a Trackman fitting at my club.  It was outside, with Pro v1 balls with a major OEM rep.  The distances it gave me were nowhere near how I really play.  It read 185 for my 7 iron, it hit it 165.. 285 carry for my driver.. I’m not close to that carry distance.  I know they can tweak the settings and I asked him about it.  He said everything was normal.  My Mevo gives me much more realistic readings of how I hit the ball.  Just my 2 cents.

[TyNiles]

A lot of good info in this thread - I have several posts in there about this topic as well.

 

 

[JJFWebster]

I have access to a Trackman 4 year-round through the club and take a lesson a week on it. The only time I've had it miss shots is if someone has bumped it way off line and I didn't check before hitting. Other than that, it very rarely misses spin numbers and I've never seen it miss shot shape. I use Pro v1 RCT balls in the winter when they close the bay doors. Carry and total yardages are bang on for me. 🤷

 

[sfdoddsy]

Just bumping my thread after another interesting Trackman session.

 

One of the high end fitters in town was doing half price fittings recently to promote the Presidents Cup so I signed up for an iron session which I did today.

 

I’m considering an upgrade to the new PXG Gen5s, so it wasn’t just a tease.

 

it was kind of annoying that the first swing of the day was easily the best, but at least I was fairly consistent from then on and hit everything to about the same standard. The numbers were also pretty much the same with everything except the lower spin XP head.

 

If there was a winner it was my current set (PXG 0311P Gen3 Steelfiber i95s). The fitter kept insisting the shaft was too stiff for my tepid swing but in the end admitted it was best for me and I shouldn’t change.

 

But this when I became dubious.

 

According to TM, my average smash factor (with a 6 iron) was 1.41.

 

My fitter was impressed. As he should be since the average PGA pro manages a mere 1.38.

 

And this was an off day. I checked the results of my previous iron fitting a couple of years ago (at a different place) and discovered that whilst my swing speed and ball speed were about the same, my smash factor then was an incredible 1.44! And my spin was 1300 lower, and my total distance 15 yards longer.

 

Just by switching machines I could have added two clubs!

 

Today was proof that, as Mr Crossfield says, strike is everything. 
 

But also that Trackmans don’t match each other.

 

I think there is value in LM gapping. And in dialing in a driver.

 

But can’t see the point otherwise.

 

Of course the alternative hypothesis would be that Trackman has revealed the truth. There is no real difference in irons of the same loft, offset and shaft.

 

 

 

[kmak]

I think you may be attributing data differences from session to session to the Trackman, when it is probably more due to the individual conditions of each session.  Surface - grass or even type of mat - can make a big difference in spin numbers, which could explain your 6 iron smash factor differences.  Same with balls.  For instance, I find I end up swinging differently when hitting irons off of a mat rather than grass, and will end up with significantly less spin.

 

With respect to your earlier observation about Trackman missing shots entirely in unsupervised sessions, ball placement is important and needs to be consistent.

 

Trackman has several settings to be adjusted - temperature, elevation, ball type, normalization - so you need to be sure that settings are consistent from session to session if you'd like consistent readings.

 

Finally, your swing is going to be different from session to session. I am also a 7 handicap, and I find some pretty high variability on what kind of club head speed I have, depending on how much I have bee playing, time of day, whether I lifted weights recently, etc.

 

And I own a Trackman 4 FYI; i am vision impaired (can't see a ball past about 70 yards) and having a Trackman is the only way that practice is useful for me.

[Greanhouse]

Smash actually goes down with faster clubhead speed at a certain point.

 

Pros are almost always over compressing the ball and bleeding efficiency for those extra yards with brute force.

 

Clubhead and Ball speed will increase while smash goes down but carry distance goes up.  Check out Dechambeau vs any normal length pro with drivers.  His smash is 1.30's and normal length pros are high 1.40's to 1.50's.

 

1.40's with a 6i says to me you are hitting the sweet spot nicely but you don't have the same clubhead speed and carry distance as a tour player.

[mgoblue83]

On 10/1/2022 at 8:58 AM, sfdoddsy said:

Just bumping my thread after another interesting Trackman session.

 

One of the high end fitters in town was doing half price fittings recently to promote the Presidents Cup so I signed up for an iron session which I did today.

 

I’m considering an upgrade to the new PXG Gen5s, so it wasn’t just a tease.

 

it was kind of annoying that the first swing of the day was easily the best, but at least I was fairly consistent from then on and hit everything to about the same standard. The numbers were also pretty much the same with everything except the lower spin XP head.

 

If there was a winner it was my current set (PXG 0311P Gen3 Steelfiber i95s). The fitter kept insisting the shaft was too stiff for my tepid swing but in the end admitted it was best for me and I shouldn’t change.

 

But this when I became dubious.

 

According to TM, my average smash factor (with a 6 iron) was 1.41.

 

My fitter was impressed. As he should be since the average PGA pro manages a mere 1.38.

 

And this was an off day. I checked the results of my previous iron fitting a couple of years ago (at a different place) and discovered that whilst my swing speed and ball speed were about the same, my smash factor then was an incredible 1.44! And my spin was 1300 lower, and my total distance 15 yards longer.

 

Just by switching machines I could have added two clubs!

 

Today was proof that, as Mr Crossfield says, strike is everything. 
 

But also that Trackmans don’t match each other.

 

I think there is value in LM gapping. And in dialing in a driver.

 

But can’t see the point otherwise.

 

Of course the alternative hypothesis would be that Trackman has revealed the truth. There is no real difference in irons of the same loft, offset and shaft.

 

 

 

 

On 12/4/2022 at 7:49 PM, Greanhouse said:

Smash actually goes down with faster clubhead speed at a certain point.

 

Pros are almost always over compressing the ball and bleeding efficiency for those extra yards with brute force.

 

Clubhead and Ball speed will increase while smash goes down but carry distance goes up.  Check out Dechambeau vs any normal length pro with drivers.  His smash is 1.30's and normal length pros are high 1.40's to 1.50's.

 

1.40's with a 6i says to me you are hitting the sweet spot nicely but you don't have the same clubhead speed and carry distance as a tour player.

 

The more likely explanation here is that the PXG 6i has a far stronger loft than the PGA Tour average 6i. Most likely the PXG is in the 26-28 degree range while tour players are more in the 30-32 degree range.

 

Smash factor increases with stronger lofts.