Volunteering, and the LIV tour... (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[2bGood]

6 hours ago, Llortamaisey said:

Nothing has changed for the PGA. They have always been scummy. The charity thing was just a tax avoidance scheme by the PGA to make more money. Very little went to charity, especially when you compare it to how much the executives at the PGA Tour make. Real charities have execs that make very little money while the vast majority of their profits go to charity.

 

Now that the gig is up, the PGA will have have to turn to alternative tax avoidance schemes like the NFL and MLB did when they gave up their charity tax status. Don’t worry about them, they’re not going to start cutting their own grass. 

 

6 hours ago, Cincy_Ken said:

You're exactly right and this is why they've been slow to respond.  The answer is to completely change the way they've done business since their inception.  No other sport is set up as a charity and if they PGA is going to compete they would need scrap that and contract their employees.  Part of that is rather than getting a bunch of volunteers to work the tournaments you hire people for the week.  

 

You're worth what the market is willing to pay you. I don't believe the players getting paid by LIV is a true market; it's buying credibility and accepting massive losses.  But they chose golf because they saw a vulnerable entity due to an antiquated business model that would not be able to quickly adapt.

PGAT is not a charity and has never claimed to be and not set up as one. It is a 510c6 non-profit. 

 

The PGAT is not a 501(c)(3) but rather a 501(c)(6). The former is a charity (typically accept donations and issue charitable receipts), the latter is non-profit member organisation:

 

A 501c6 organization is an association of persons having common business interests. The organizations’ purpose must be to promote their common interest and improve business conditions, not to engage in a regular business for a profit.

501c6 organisations include the following –

-Business leagues,

-Chambers of commerce,

-Real estate boards,

-Boards of trade, and

-Professional sports leagues.

 

Charities and non-profits are not the same thing. In this case the PGA non-profit status is based on figure out ways to make more money for members and make it easier for them to conduct business. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by 2bGood

[Ghostwedge]

10 hours ago, MUNIGRIT said:

The big guy gets his cut too!

I see what you did there.... 😎 lol

[So_Cal]

14 hours ago, bvmagic said:

I always thought it was weird that volunteers have to pay to work an event.  If someone is willing to work full day shifts at an event, the least they can do is cover your food / clothing.  

Yes.  They should also let you play the course.  I don’t think that’s asking too much 

[tacklingdummy]

14 hours ago, manku said:

FWIW, it appears that volunteering for LIV events is "free"...but you don't even get a shirt, just a bib and hat! (at least for Bedminster event).  And the LIV events don't appear to be connected to any charity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is what you get for volunteering at the LIV Portland event. The best perk is you get a round at Pumpkin Ridge if you work fulfill three shifts. 

 

-A weekly credential and commemorative lanyard for the event

-Complimentary food and beverages on the days you volunteer

-Volunteer Bib that you will wear over your own clothing while on duty. You will receive your bib before each shift when you check-in at Volunteer HQ

-Volunteer tote bag

-Volunteer headwear (baseball hat, visor, or sun hat)

-Complimentary parking 

-Incentives based on how many volunteer shifts you fulfill

 

Volunteer Gifts

As a thank you for your time and commitment for being a tournament volunteer, you will receive a gift after the tournament.

 

-All volunteers that fulfill at least one shift will receive a tournament logoed golf towel

-All volunteers that fulfill three shifts will also receive a round of golf on the Pumpkin Ridge Golf Club (Ghost Course). 

[So_Cal]

14 hours ago, manku said:

 

Got rid of both ICE cars in the last twelve months and now only drive electric!  

 

No gas for me.  At least not directly.

Doesn’t matter.   Oil used for everything including making resource intensive BEVs, but you are intelligent and already knew that. 

[MattyO1984]

17 hours ago, bvmagic said:

I always thought it was weird that volunteers have to pay to work an event.  If someone is willing to work full day shifts at an event, the least they can do is cover your food / clothing.  

 

When I volunteered at the 2014 Ryder Cup we had to pay however, the reasoning was that we got a lot of kit and worked a half day shift (although in the end I worked none - long story) but the main reason we were given was that at the 2010 Ryder Cup, they had a lot of guys volunteer who turned up at the start of the week got their grounds passes and kit and were then never seen again at least in a volunteering sense. From that perspective I can understand.

[hunterdog]

In my town, we have had a smaller PGAT event that transitioned into a Champions event. Most of the volunteers were members of local groups (Lions Clubs, Rotary, etc). The tournament organizer, as opposed to the PGAT, would donate money to the groups or their causes. The volunteers did as a contribution to their organizations and for a sense of community pride.  Not sure how the Saudis are setting up their events. However, they obviously have the cash and I don’t see why they don’t pay the “volunteers” .

[Greg_B]

21 hours ago, bvmagic said:

I always thought it was weird that volunteers have to pay to work an event.  If someone is willing to work full day shifts at an event, the least they can do is cover your food / clothing.  

 

Most such events are run the same way so it is not unique to the PGA Tour. You get to pay for your logoed clothing and other things provided to you at the event, plus of course you get to attend. It may be discounted and at or below cost, but the payment is a way to reinforce commitment to taking part and doing the job that you signed up for. Nothing unusual there.

[Greg_B]

 

NM

Edited June 22, 2022 by Greg_B
Double post, sure would be nice to fix this.

[oikos1]

16 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 

PGAT is not a charity and has never claimed to be and not set up as one. It is a 510c6 non-profit. 

 

 

The PGAT is not a 501(c)(3) but rather a 501(c)(6). The former is a charity (typically accept donations and issue charitable receipts), the latter is non-profit member organisation:

 

A 501c6 organization is an association of persons having common business interests. The organizations’ purpose must be to promote their common interest and improve business conditions, not to engage in a regular business for a profit.

501c6 organisations include the following –

-Business leagues,

-Chambers of commerce,

-Real estate boards,

-Boards of trade, and

-Professional sports leagues.

 

Charities and non-profits are not the same thing. In this case the PGA non-profit status is based on figure out ways to make more money for members and make it easier for them to conduct business. 

You are correct about it's 501(c)(6) status, but that is not how the PGA Tour, or the Media involved with the PGA Tour, is portrayed. 

 

That's what makes it such a good scam.

 

"The Tour only made direct charitable contributions of $42.7 million in 2018, which is a paltry 3% of their $1.47 billion in revenue. While the Tour publicly takes credit for $190 million in charity, that inflated number reflects the total given by the tour and the local non-profits that put on the tournaments."

 

https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2021/12/22/lets_stop_pretending_that_the_pga_tour_is_a_charity_808930.html

[RobotDoctor]

Is there any information how the course setup will be at Pumpkin Ridge?  I have played Ghost Creek several times and really like that course.  I have never been fortunate enough to play Witch Hollow but have seen it on TV when the US Amateur and Ladies US Open were played there.  It will be interesting to see how the golfers do with the course.

[imakaveli]

Making volunteers pay is pathetic.

[bcjim]

50 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

You are correct about it's 501(c)(6) status, but that is not how the PGA Tour, or the Media involved with the PGA Tour, is portrayed. 

 

That's what makes it such a good scam.

 

"The Tour only made direct charitable contributions of $42.7 million in 2018, which is a paltry 3% of their $1.47 billion in revenue. While the Tour publicly takes credit for $190 million in charity, that inflated number reflects the total given by the tour and the local non-profits that put on the tournaments."

 

https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2021/12/22/lets_stop_pretending_that_the_pga_tour_is_a_charity_808930.html

Are financial statements available for the tour? What are their expenses? Where does the 1.47B in revenue go? Are those "upset" about the tour finances also upset about general corporate tax rates? Expanded pass throughs?  To be fair, the tour does facilitate a lot of tax revenue. Golfers making millions pay a lot of taxes.

 

And the point some keep going on about wrt to Saudi oil is pretty silly...paying for gasoline is not voluntary for 99% of us.  Supporting a golf tour is.

[Yellow Jacket]

5 hours ago, MattyO1984 said:

 

When I volunteered at the 2014 Ryder Cup we had to pay however, the reasoning was that we got a lot of kit and worked a half day shift (although in the end I worked none - long story) but the main reason we were given was that at the 2010 Ryder Cup, they had a lot of guys volunteer who turned up at the start of the week got their grounds passes and kit and were then never seen again at least in a volunteering sense. From that perspective I can understand.

I'm volunteering at the Women's PGA Championship this week. I had to pay $130 plus taxes and fees to volunteer, but we got a Nike hat that's probably about $30, a Nike polo that had a $65 tag, and a Nike jacket that I think had a tag of around $85? We've already had no shows and people cancel after picking up their gear and access badge, so I can definitely see it being a problem when you have up to 2,000 volunteers for an event. We get meal and water bottle vouchers--personally I'd like to see unlimited vouchers here since food and water costs the event almost nothing.

[bvmagic]

14 minutes ago, Yellow Jacket said:

I'm volunteering at the Women's PGA Championship this week. I had to pay $130 plus taxes and fees to volunteer, but we got a Nike hat that's probably about $30, a Nike polo that had a $65 tag, and a Nike jacket that I think had a tag of around $85? We've already had no shows and people cancel after picking up their gear and access badge, so I can definitely see it being a problem when you have up to 2,000 volunteers for an event. We get meal and water bottle vouchers--personally I'd like to see unlimited vouchers here since food and water costs the event almost nothing.

 

They could possibly charge the fee up front, but then reimburse volunteers based on how many hours they put in.  Have a tiered system where put in a minimum of say X amount of hours you get partial refund, then if you work the full schedule you are assigned you get full refund.  So that way you are covering for your no show's that take the gear and leave but still reward the volunteers that put in their time.  I understand that will take a lot more work to track, but there should be solutions to reward the volunteers that put in their full time versus the ones that don't show up at all.  

[BlackDiamondPar5]

49 minutes ago, imakaveli said:

Making volunteers pay is pathetic.

They buy a uniform so it's not quite as pathetic as it seems.  If they paid positions traditionally worked by volunteers they'd either have to increase revenue (how) or take money from somewhere else.  That would leave the money hungry players with less money for themselves.

[aus10KC]

20 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

They buy a uniform so it's not quite as pathetic as it seems.  If they paid positions traditionally worked by volunteers they'd either have to increase revenue (how) or take money from somewhere else.  That would leave the money hungry players with less money for themselves.

 

It doesn't make sense to pay volunteers as it's just for a week, and many only work a day or two. Also having them pay with perks helps guarantee they show up, would paying decrease the number of no shows?

[PhilsFanDrew]

13 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

They buy a uniform so it's not quite as pathetic as it seems.  If they paid positions traditionally worked by volunteers they'd either have to increase revenue (how) or take money from somewhere else.  That would leave the money hungry players with less money for themselves.

C'mon the cost to provide a polo or two and a hat for volunteers is nothing.  They aren't paying anywhere close to retail prices for the apparel and they are getting people to work who don't expect a paycheck, covering their uniform for the week is the least they could do.  

[BottleCap]

9 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

 

This is what you get for volunteering at the LIV Portland event. The best perk is you get a round at Pumpkin Ridge if you work fulfill three shifts. 

 

-A weekly credential and commemorative lanyard for the event

-Complimentary food and beverages on the days you volunteer

-Volunteer Bib that you will wear over your own clothing while on duty. You will receive your bib before each shift when you check-in at Volunteer HQ

-Volunteer tote bag

-Volunteer headwear (baseball hat, visor, or sun hat)

-Complimentary parking 

-Incentives based on how many volunteer shifts you fulfill

 

Volunteer Gifts

As a thank you for your time and commitment for being a tournament volunteer, you will receive a gift after the tournament.

 

-All volunteers that fulfill at least one shift will receive a tournament logoed golf towel

-All volunteers that fulfill three shifts will also receive a round of golf on the Pumpkin Ridge Golf Club (Ghost Course). 

I wonder what the gift is at the end? $$ Gas Card $$ ?

[BottleCap]

1 hour ago, Yellow Jacket said:

I'm volunteering at the Women's PGA Championship this week. I had to pay $130 plus taxes and fees to volunteer, but we got a Nike hat that's probably about $30, a Nike polo that had a $65 tag, and a Nike jacket that I think had a tag of around $85? We've already had no shows and people cancel after picking up their gear and access badge, so I can definitely see it being a problem when you have up to 2,000 volunteers for an event. We get meal and water bottle vouchers--personally I'd like to see unlimited vouchers here since food and water costs the event almost nothing.

Is the Nike gear is blood money?

[ChipStrokes]

1 hour ago, Yellow Jacket said:

I had to pay $130 plus taxes and fees to volunteer, but we got a Nike hat that's probably about $30, a Nike polo that had a $65 tag, and a Nike jacket that I think had a tag of around $85?

that's great.  but did you want any of that stuff?

 

making volunteers pay, and then offsetting that with "hey here's some clothes" just seems crappy

[BottleCap]

5 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

that's great.  but did you want any of that stuff?

 

making volunteers pay, and then offsetting that with "hey here's some clothes" just seems crappy

I think that might be called “growing the game”

[jsnschwrtz]

1 hour ago, bcjim said:

Are financial statements available for the tour? What are their expenses? Where does the 1.47B in revenue go? Are those "upset" about the tour finances also upset about general corporate tax rates? Expanded pass throughs?  To be fair, the tour does facilitate a lot of tax revenue. Golfers making millions pay a lot of taxes.

 

And the point some keep going on about wrt to Saudi oil is pretty silly...paying for gasoline is not voluntary for 99% of us.  Supporting a golf tour is.

I don't think you know what "voluntary" means.

[DaddySwagMaster]

When I make more money than Jay Monahan, I'll "volunteer" at a PGA Tour event.

[DFS PFD]

The money you pay to volunteer for getting some "goods" isn't accurately reflected when they give you the MSRP value of your windbreaker and hat. The Tour buys those for 40-50% of that MSRP so they are still making a profit on the merchandise you're paying for with your time and money...

[jdl]

32 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

that's great.  but did you want any of that stuff?

 

making volunteers pay, and then offsetting that with "hey here's some clothes" just seems crappy

No one's forcing them to pay. Obviously a lot of people are willing to do so, if that wasn't the case then they'd have to figure out a different way.

[m052310]

10 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

 

This is what you get for volunteering at the LIV Portland event. The best perk is you get a round at Pumpkin Ridge if you work fulfill three shifts. 

 

-A weekly credential and commemorative lanyard for the event

-Complimentary food and beverages on the days you volunteer

-Volunteer Bib that you will wear over your own clothing while on duty. You will receive your bib before each shift when you check-in at Volunteer HQ

-Volunteer tote bag

-Volunteer headwear (baseball hat, visor, or sun hat)

-Complimentary parking 

-Incentives based on how many volunteer shifts you fulfill

 

Volunteer Gifts

As a thank you for your time and commitment for being a tournament volunteer, you will receive a gift after the tournament.

 

-All volunteers that fulfill at least one shift will receive a tournament logoed golf towel

-All volunteers that fulfill three shifts will also receive a round of golf on the Pumpkin Ridge Golf Club (Ghost Course). 

Any idea where I can find similar information on the Chicago event?

[bscinstnct]

22 minutes ago, jdl said:

No one's forcing them to pay. Obviously a lot of people are willing to do so, if that wasn't the case then they'd have to figure out a different way.

 

Ya lol, seems like there’s plenty of folks happy to do it. 
 

Id like to “volunteer” and do security, take care of the bababooeys.  
 

I do it for free and bring my own crew and roam the grounds like

 

🤣

 

 

 

 

[jdl]

3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Ya lol, seems like there’s plenty of folks happy to do it. 
 

Id like to “volunteer” and do security, take care of the bababooeys.  
 

I do it for free and bring my own crew and roam the grounds like

 

🤣

 

 

 

 

 

Some friends of mine volunteered every year at the Deuts.....err.....Dell playoff event when it was at TPC Boston (RIP). They loved it because they knew the guy giving out the assignments and usually they got a nice one, like doing the Shotlink tracking on #16. And I liked it because they would give me their free passes to go to the tournament on Th/Fr. 😆

[bscinstnct]

1 minute ago, jdl said:

 

Some friends of mine volunteered every year at the Deuts.....err.....Dell playoff event when it was at TPC Boston (RIP). They loved it because they knew the guy giving out the assignments and usually they got a nice one, like doing the Shotlink tracking on #16. And I liked it because they would give me their free passes to go to the tournament on Th/Fr. 😆

 

Nice! Ya I can see how people would be into doing this type of thing. 
 

I think @TiScape does Shotlink for an event. He seems to really enjoy.  Right TiS?