Billy Horschel and PGA Tour/DP World Tour Hypocrisy

[khalespace]

2 hours ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

Before 10,000 of you jump on me and point out what I already know, that the DP World Tour and the PGA Tour are in bed with each other, and players are free to play events on either Tour as they see fit, but I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of all of this.  I mean, let's call a spade a spade.  The PGA Tour has a problem with Greg Norman, pure and simple.

 

We've got a PGA Tour event in Connecticut going on this week, and a DP World Tour event in Germany going on.  So I pulled up the leaderboard for the DP World Tour event and I see this collection of players...

 

So did Billy get a "conflicting event release" from the PGA Tour?  I mean, it's in direct competition to the Travelers Championship going on at the same time.

So I guess Louis Oosthuizen, Sergio Garcia, Pablo Larrazabal, among others currently playing on the LIV Tour are free to play all the DP World Tour events they want?

 

I honestly don't care if you disagree with me, but this is such blatant hypocrisy.  Just come out and admit that you just hate Greg Norman and be done with it.  This is personal to Monahan and nothing more.

The 2 tours are partners. LIV Tour is not a partner.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, dfeldss said:

Well the PGA tour and euro tour have a long standing alliance and put on the ryder cup and presidents cup together (hopefully LIV doesn't take those from us)

 

And like others have said, the Euro tour doesn't play in America, obviously.

No need to worry about the RC or PC being breached by a rival tour...... LIV player will  be lucky to play in the Major tourneys past 2023.....IMO

[TwistedSister]

36 minutes ago, Tpfol said:

 

Exactly. The first LIV event was in London while the PGA tour was playing in Canada. "American Soil" wasnt touched

Sorry but Canada IS in America.  As is the US and Mexico and all the countries in Central and South AMERICA.

Edited June 24, 2022 by dhacker56

[dfeldss]

3 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

No need to worry about the RC or PC being breached by a rival tour...... LIV player will  be lucky to play in the Major tourneys past 2023.....IMO

 

Yeah my worry was the either LIV would buy DP world tour or the PGAt would.

 

Both situations would've made the RC and PC murky

[smashdn]

22 minutes ago, jmck said:

Is there any evidence whatsoever that Billy Ho didn't apply for and receive a release to play in Germany?

 

No.

 

Does Billy Ho playing in Germany "significantly and unreasonably harm the PGA Tour"?

 

No.

 

Compare and contrast those to the players who've gone to play for LIV, where the answer is--VERY OBVIOUSLY--yes to both of those questions.

 

There's not any nuance needed, these are two VERY OBVIOUSLY different situations, yet it appears to still be too complex for some.

Ian Poulter (and I count myself as not an IP hater) does not significantly and obviously harm the PGA Tour.

 

Feel free to fill in names for some of those other players as well.

 

I like the LIV product but I'm not going to even attempt to tell anyone that the London event field was a strong one when compared to a middle of the road PGAT event. But it should be getting better.

[jgonz69]

10 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

Golfwrx is becoming the haven for LIV trolls.

Wait till you see twitter and Instagram. 

[Potatohead]

I don't really see the issue here?

 

PGA Tour players can get a release for another tour event three times a year. Only recently it was decided those releases would not be granted for the LIV Tour, which this event is not, so I don't see the point of the post. 

[jmck]

1 minute ago, smashdn said:

Ian Poulter (and I count myself as not an IP hater) does not significantly and obviously harm the PGA Tour.

 

Feel free to fill in names for some of those other players as well.

 

I like the LIV product but I'm not going to even attempt to tell anyone that the London event field was a strong one when compared to a middle of the road PGAT event. But it should be getting better.

Unlike the DP World Tour, the LIV is, as a whole, designed to harm the PGAT. Therefore ANYONE playing in a LIV event--even a scrub, let alone Poulter--is harming the PGAT. Don't take my word for it, just look at the people on here gleefully celebrating that harm.

[CasualLie]

3 minutes ago, jgonz69 said:

Wait till you see twitter and Instagram. 

 

Not much of a Twitter guy, but my IG feed with all of the golf accounts is milking this stuff big time for the "likes".  They will all drop is soon when it becomes old news.

[jmck]

3 minutes ago, Potatohead said:

I don't really see the issue here?

 

PGA Tour players can get a release for another tour event three times a year. Only recently it was decided those releases would not be granted for the LIV Tour, which this event is not, so I don't see the point of the post. 

I heard a rumor (out of Shady Oaks so it must be true) that the Saudis are paying $1,000,000 each for the biggest logical fallacy, false equivalence, and bad faith argument defending their sportswashing scheme, and so golfwrx dot com has turned into a race to the bottom in pursuit of that sweet sweet Saudi cash.

Edited June 24, 2022 by jmck

[smashdn]

1 minute ago, jmck said:

Unlike the DP World Tour, the LIV is, as a whole, designed to harm the PGAT. Therefore ANYONE playing in a LIV event--even a scrub, let alone Poulter--is harming the PGAT. Don't take my word for it, just look at the people on here gleefully celebrating that harm.

 

I don't guess I agree the intent is to harm.  It is just competition.  Norman created a tour attractive to a certain set of players looking for different things.  Some PGAT and DP Tour players have been attracted.

 

FIGJAM said this was going to happen.  Monahan slow played and lost, so far.  He had the opportunity to get in front but didn't.

[DaddySwagMaster]

1 minute ago, jmck said:

I heard a rumor (out of Shady Oaks so it must be true) that the Saudis are paying $1,000,000 to the stupidest possible post defending their sportswashing scheme, and so golfwrx dot com has turned into a race to the bottom.

So a guy like me, who honestly has no dog in this fight, can't ask an honest question about the blatant hypocrisy of the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour?

 

I'm not trying to troll anyone or anything, and frankly, I'm getting too old to care about 99% of comments like this one above, but if you are mocking this thread as "a race to the bottom" then I'll be happy to exit stage left and let your clown show return to whatever it was before I came around.  Not like I'll lose any sleep or miss anything not coming here.  And frankly, I don't think anyone will care if I left either.  So mock away if you want.  Your opinion matters about as much as mine in the grand scheme of things.

[Abh159]

41 minutes ago, farmer said:

Just read that any DP members who play in LIV events will be banned from DP events.  Players better like the LIV venues.

 

It's actually just 3 events, and only 1 of them is in Europe (Scottish Open). The other two are PGA/DP co-sanctioned, opposite field events held in the US (Barbasol and Barracuda Championships).

[Potatohead]

4 minutes ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

So a guy like me, who honestly has no dog in this fight, can't ask an honest question about the blatant hypocrisy of the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour?

 

I'm not trying to troll anyone or anything, and frankly, I'm getting too old to care about 99% of comments like this one above, but if you are mocking this thread as "a race to the bottom" then I'll be happy to exit stage left and let your clown show return to whatever it was before I came around.  Not like I'll lose any sleep or miss anything not coming here.  And frankly, I don't think anyone will care if I left either.  So mock away if you want.  Your opinion matters about as much as mine in the grand scheme of things.

 

What is hypocritical about it? The rules have been this way for a long time. Billy is likely planning on playing the Scottish Open (which a lot of PGAT players get a release for and have for years) and then the Open. 

 

If you're referring to allowing this on the DP tour and not the LIV tour, I think it is obvious that the purpose of the LIV Tour is to do harm to the PGAT, even having several competing events in the US. This is not rocket surgery. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Potatohead

[jmck]

2 minutes ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

So a guy like me, who honestly has no dog in this fight, can't ask an honest question about the blatant hypocrisy of the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour?

 

I'm not trying to troll anyone or anything, and frankly, I'm getting too old to care about 99% of comments like this one above, but if you are mocking this thread as "a race to the bottom" then I'll be happy to exit stage left and let your clown show return to whatever it was before I came around.  Not like I'll lose any sleep or miss anything not coming here.  And frankly, I don't think anyone will care if I left either.  So mock away if you want.  Your opinion matters about as much as mine in the grand scheme of things.

Saying it's hypocritical that Billy Ho is playing in Germany instead of Hartford is like arguing that the world is flat.  There is no way to respond to that which will ever satisfy you.  iBanesto's post quoting the PGAT handbook rules on the subject is sitting right there, like a picture of the earth from moon, telling you everything you need to know but have no interest in understanding.  Good luck though.

[bfactor]

3 minutes ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

So a guy like me, who honestly has no dog in this fight, can't ask an honest question about the blatant hypocrisy of the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour?

 

Don't take it personally, lots of folks haven't been following as closely (we all have lives, etc.) but there have been tons of posts attempting to compare unlike things over the past months, many from accounts that are quite suspicious (not yours).

[kenoli22]

You're wrong, but since you don't care if anyone disagrees with you I'll just leave it at that.

[ga_pike]

8 minutes ago, kenoli22 said:

You're wrong, but since you don't care if anyone disagrees with you I'll just leave it at that.

 

The question is valid.  Why is a PGA Tour player permitted to play a DP event but not a LIV event?  Yes, there is a partnership between the DP and PGAT but why can't a similar agreement exist between PGAT and LIV?  

 

On another point, the PGAT doesn't grant exemptions for conflicting events on US/North American soil, so IF the DP World Tour were to hold an event in the US opposite of a PGAT event, then I suspect that they wouldn't grant an exemption.  However, the London event wasn't on US/NA soil so there is a difference and the lack of an exemption is based upon a different criteria (which Monahan has already stated).  

[smashdn]

Guys float from tour to tour, especially the fringe guys.  Guys move from the DP Tour to the Asian Tour and Japan Tour and Sunshine Tour.

[aenemated]

47 minutes ago, jgonz69 said:

Wait till you see twitter and Instagram. 

 

The commentary on practically any golf content on social media makes 4chan look intelligible. 

[TiScape]

52 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

Golfwrx is becoming the haven for LIV trolls.

 Yes! I’m on here quite a bit and there are now 2-3 members who’s names I never saw in threads, all the sudden posting all the time and only in the LIV threads. When I say posting, I mean several posts per page. Taking on and debating anyone speaking against LIV. Click the names both members since around 2019. But essentially no activity until LIV… 🤔 

[Inexorable_Fate]

3 hours ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

Greg Norman has a problem with the PGA Tour, pure and simple.

 

There, I fixed that for you.

[ga_pike]

1 minute ago, Inexorable_Fate said:

 

There, I fixed that for you.

 

That's fair.  

[BottleCap]

2 hours ago, dfeldss said:

Well the PGA tour and euro tour have a long standing alliance and put on the ryder cup and presidents cup together (hopefully LIV doesn't take those from us)

 

And like others have said, the Euro tour doesn't play in America, obviously.

It's the PGA that does the Ryder Cup, not the PGA Tour.

 

The PGA Tour does the Presidents Cup

[bfactor]

6 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

The commentary on practically any golf content on social media makes 4chan look intelligible. 

 

Have been around golf my entire life and this truth goes way beyond social media. It's a sport that so perfectly lends itself to advanced analysis, has endless data to pore over which can lead to interesting, objective discussions, but it seems to attract the intellectually lazy at a really high rate for some reason.

[BottleCap]

All three should compromise...the PGA Tour and Euro tour should alternate weeks during golf season, the off season, Sept - December, should be when LIV holds events. 

[Danielson]

39 minutes ago, ga_pike said:

 

The question is valid.  Why is a PGA Tour player permitted to play a DP event but not a LIV event?  Yes, there is a partnership between the DP and PGAT but why can't a similar agreement exist between PGAT and LIV?  

 

On another point, the PGAT doesn't grant exemptions for conflicting events on US/North American soil, so IF the DP World Tour were to hold an event in the US opposite of a PGAT event, then I suspect that they wouldn't grant an exemption.  However, the London event wasn't on US/NA soil so there is a difference and the lack of an exemption is based upon a different criteria (which Monahan has already stated).  

 

So you already know the answer, and your follow up question is why can't a league made specifically to take business from the PGA tour and run by a guy who hates the PGA tour partner with the tour? Gee, I wonder.

[PhilsFanDrew]

4 hours ago, Dave230 said:

The European (DP World Tour) have no events on American soil clashing with the PGA Tour, which is the key to the whole argument. Next week's event goes directly against the John Deere classic on American soil, taking a number of formerly PGA Tour players. The European Tour and PGA Tour always co-existed because they played for different geographical markets. And they even worked together so their tournaments wouldn't clash. Sergio Garcia has been playing both tours for over 20 years.

 

LIV Tour is going directly up against the PGA Tour in their territory, that's the difference.

 

No the difference is that LIV has the bankroll to recruit away all of the PGAT's talent if they prove they can be a viable and sustaining tour.  The PGAT doesn't care if Billy Ho or others play the odd DP World event because they know they call the PGAT home and there is no threat of Billy Ho leaving the PGAT for DP World. 

 

If the DP World Tour had the money the PGAT does (or more) and could legitimately threaten their hegemony as kings of the professional golf world they would absolutely ban PGAT players from competing in DP World Tour events.  This isn't about who is playing on what soil or geographic markets.  It's about retaining top talent for $$$ purposes.   The PGAT isn't threatened by DP World but they are by LIV.

Edited June 24, 2022 by PhilsFanDrew

[redfirebird08]

Dave nailed it in the 2nd post of this thread. Euro Tour does not have any of its schedule on American soil, never mind 60% of the schedule on American soil for LIV Golf. 

[kmbean]

To be fair Billy has a hard enough time putting his Octopus pants on and tying his shoes everyday.  He probably doesn’t even comprehend he is in Germany this week.