Billy Horschel and PGA Tour/DP World Tour Hypocrisy

[bfactor]

14 minutes ago, smashdn said:

I'd be game for a better understanding of the basic facts.

 

I'd like to understand, aside from the agreement betwen the PGAT and the then European Tour, how was DJ able to go play in the middle east a few years back?  I genuinely don't know all the circumstances regarding his getting a release to go there and play.  Surely he was exempt into the field of whatever PGAT event(s) he was missing?  Fully understanding that fact alone is not the only bit of evidence that factors into a release.

 

Based on past observation, generally 2 or 3 exemptions a year for those types of one-off appearance fee events is considered reasonable. Also, my understanding is that the releases usually come with a condition that in return the player will tee it up in a "smaller" PGA Tour event the next season (like a John Deere-level full field event) to return the favor.

 

The real question is how posters can possibly equate that simple scenario to a player expecting releases for 14 events/year, opposite significant PGA Tour events, while somehow remaining in good standing as a member.  That is the part that eludes me, unless that silly comparison is not made in good faith. But that would never happen, right?

Edited June 25, 2022 by bfactor

[iBanesto]

https://www.europeantour.com/dpworld-tour/news/articles/detail/dp-world-tour-confirms-member-sanctions/

DP World Tour confirms member sanctions

Friday, June 24, 2022

 

The DP World Tour today confirmed the sanctions to be taken against members who breached Tour regulations and participated in a LIV Golf event at Centurion Club from June 9-11, despite not having received releases to allow them to do so.

 

Such actions contravened the conflicting event Regulation laid down in the Members’ General Regulations Handbook as well as the Code of Behaviour Regulation, of which the members have been reminded on a number of recent occasions, and has led the Tour to take the following steps, which have been notified to all members concerned.

 

• They will be fined £100,000*

• They have been advised that they are suspended from participating in the following DP World Tour tournaments - the Genesis Scottish Open and Barbasol Championship (July 7-10) and the Barracuda Championship (July 14-17) and have been removed from the entry lists of these events where applicable.

 

It is important to note that participation in a further conflicting tournament or tournaments without the required release may incur further sanctions.

 

*Money raised from the fines will be shared equally in two distinct ways; (i) it will be added to prize funds of upcoming tournaments on the DP World Tour, to the benefit of Members of the DP World Tour who have complied with the Release rules and (ii) it will be distributed through the Tour’s Golf for Good programme to deserving charitable causes in the communities that the DP World Tour plays.

 

Keith Pelley, Chief Executive of the DP World Tour, said: “Every action anyone takes in life comes with a consequence and it is no different in professional sport, especially if a person chooses to break the rules. That is what has occurred here with several of our members.

 

“Many members I have spoken to in recent weeks expressed the viewpoint that those who have chosen this route have not only disrespected them and our Tour, but also the meritocratic ecosystem of professional golf that has been the bedrock of our game for the past half a century and which will also be the foundation upon which we build the next 50 years.

 

“Their actions are not fair to the majority of our membership and undermine the Tour, which is why we are taking the action we have announced today.”

Edited June 25, 2022 by iBanesto

[elwhippy]

Need a fully moderated Liv forum and leave the rest of WRX for golf and gear fans.

[Tpfol]

20 hours ago, dhacker56 said:

Sorry but Canada IS in America.  As is the US and Mexico and all the countries in Central and South AMERICA.

Are you saying that London is in Canada? Or US or Mexico? Because that's where the LIV played, like I said, nowhere near American soil

[TwistedSister]

1 hour ago, Tpfol said:

Are you saying that London is in Canada? Or US or Mexico? Because that's where the LIV played, like I said, nowhere near American soil

I guess I can not read your mind.  You stated that the PGAT was playing in Canada. America wasn't touched. It was touched(Canada).  BTW I was not the only one that replied with this answer.  So I guess maybe you should be a little clearer or I need to quit taking so many anti histamines.  🙄

[Shilgy]

23 hours ago, Potatohead said:

I don't really see the issue here?

 

PGA Tour players can get a release for another tour event three times a year. Only recently it was decided those releases would not be granted for the LIV Tour, which this event is not, so I don't see the point of the post. 

Clearly the point of the post was to show how many don’t understand, at all, how it works.  Or really follow this as closely as they think they do.

 

To reply to a few posts….

yes, the euros know who Billy Ho is…he won the BMW PGA Championship last fall, one of their biggest events

 

and yes, I’m sure he got a conflicting event release.

 

they do not need a release for the Scottish Open…it is now a do-sponsored event with the DP tour.

 

One said the DP tour helps putting on the Presidents Cup. Pretty certain that’s wrong. Just the RC.

 

No, Sergio and others could not have played the Travelers….you may have missed it but they were all suspended…indefinitely.m

 

 

Seems odd to me that so many are ok with LIV enforcing attendance at all events while  the PGA and DP tour let the players make their own schedule but need a release to play elsewhere.   What really confuses me is the number of posts that complain it’s not fair when the players have signed an agreement to that effect.  
Has anyone read anything about the players that want to LIV claiming they were unfairly treated?  That the ban blindsided them?  I may have missed it but they all knew the consequences to signing on with LIV.  Including their freedom to play where they want.  
 

 

 

 

[Tpfol]

3 hours ago, dhacker56 said:

I guess I can not read your mind.  You stated that the PGAT was playing in Canada. America wasn't touched. It was touched(Canada).  BTW I was not the only one that replied with this answer.  So I guess maybe you should be a little clearer or I need to quit taking so many anti histamines.  🙄

So reading comprehension isnt your thing? Dont need a mind reader if you actually read. You quoted my response which was in reference to a claim that DP tour is ok because its not on American soil. Try to keep up, its not that difficult

[TwistedSister]

33 minutes ago, Tpfol said:

So reading comprehension isnt your thing? Dont need a mind reader if you actually read. You quoted my response which was in reference to a claim that DP tour is ok because its not on American soil. Try to keep up, its not that difficult

Read back thru I am not the only one that read your initial post that way.  No need to be snarky.  I did apologize.

[Tpfol]

34 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

Read back thru I am not the only one that read your initial post that way.  No need to be snarky.  I did apologize.

Classic.

 

[TwistedSister]

41 minutes ago, Tpfol said:

Classic.

 

Thanx I thought so too.  At least you admit it!

[DaddySwagMaster]

On 6/24/2022 at 12:29 PM, TiScape said:

 Yes! I’m on here quite a bit and there are now 2-3 members who’s names I never saw in threads, all the sudden posting all the time and only in the LIV threads. When I say posting, I mean several posts per page. Taking on and debating anyone speaking against LIV. Click the names both members since around 2019. But essentially no activity until LIV… 🤔 

I’ll help you out here. I opened a wrx account years ago and took a test drive of these forums back then and lost interest pretty quick. Just talking about clubs and grips and WITB of pros honestly doesn’t interest me much, but that seems to be the main emphasis of this forum. So I left because other things gained my interest. 
 

However, with the LIV in the news I don’t trust the main golf media to report factually or truthfully on LIV because they have an extreme bias against Norman, and they aren’t reporting the news about LIV without injecting their opinions in every story. 
 

So I cane back here to read other’s thoughts and opinions on LIV. To be clear, I’m simply looking for objective coverage of LIV. Whether you hate it or whatever, at least give it a chance to breathe. 
 

I’m not here to cheerlead for either LIV or the PGA Tour. I’m simply interested in gathering truthful information about LIV and what the rest of the golf world is doing in response, and I can’t really get that from blowholes like Brandel Chamblee on Golf Channel. Frankly I think it’s shameful that so many in the golf media are nothing more than pimps for the PGA Tour. I don’t trust them and I tune them out. 
 

That’s it, that’s my story. But frankly, I won’t stick around here because most of what I’ve read and seen doesn’t impress me as much more than a clique here where outsiders who haven’t been here and sacrificed on the altar aren’t welcomed. Don’t bother because I won’t waste any more of my time explaining myself or apologizing for asking questions that get overlooked and then insulted for thinking I’m a moron for not understanding how the system works, when if you had actually read the first sentence of my original post in this thread then you’d not have so easily dismissed me and mocked me. 
 

whatever. Carry on in your echo chamber. 

[bladehunter]

I’m amazed that folks are amazed that the pga tour is partnered with the DP ( euro ) tour.  
 

i mean that’s like not knowing that peanut butter likes jelly.  
 

Why would anyone need a release to go play the Partner tour for less money ?  

Edited June 26, 2022 by bladehunter

[bladehunter]

18 minutes ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

I’ll help you out here. I opened a wrx account years ago and took a test drive of these forums back then and lost interest pretty quick. Just talking about clubs and grips and WITB of pros honestly doesn’t interest me much, but that seems to be the main emphasis of this forum. So I left because other things gained my interest. 
 

However, with the LIV in the news I don’t trust the main golf media to report factually or truthfully on LIV because they have an extreme bias against Norman, and they aren’t reporting the news about LIV without injecting their opinions in every story. 
 

So I cane back here to read other’s thoughts and opinions on LIV. To be clear, I’m simply looking for objective coverage of LIV. Whether you hate it or whatever, at least give it a chance to breathe. 
 

I’m not here to cheerlead for either LIV or the PGA Tour. I’m simply interested in gathering truthful information about LIV and what the rest of the golf world is doing in response, and I can’t really get that from blowholes like Brandel Chamblee on Golf Channel. Frankly I think it’s shameful that so many in the golf media are nothing more than pimps for the PGA Tour. I don’t trust them and I tune them out. 
 

That’s it, that’s my story. But frankly, I won’t stick around here because most of what I’ve read and seen doesn’t impress me as much more than a clique here where outsiders who haven’t been here and sacrificed on the altar aren’t welcomed. Don’t bother because I won’t waste any more of my time explaining myself or apologizing for asking questions that get overlooked and then insulted for thinking I’m a moron for not understanding how the system works, when if you had actually read the first sentence of my original post in this thread then you’d not have so easily dismissed me and mocked me. 
 

whatever. Carry on in your echo chamber. 

Your issue isn’t with media. Or this site ( which is media already partnered with the pga tour ).  
 

it’s with the lack of a LIV echo chamber …. That’s just how it is. The majority of golf fans don’t want to see pro competition  turned into a short , shotgun , no cut event.  So the echo in favor of that is small.  
 

give it room ?  Why ?  They can have as much room as they buy.  The core fans will voice their displeasure at the attempt to dumb down golf.  It’s really odd to  even ask is to pretend that we like this.  It’s a non starter. DOA. 

[BottleCap]

49 minutes ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

I’ll help you out here. I opened a wrx account years ago and took a test drive of these forums back then and lost interest pretty quick. Just talking about clubs and grips and WITB of pros honestly doesn’t interest me much, but that seems to be the main emphasis of this forum. So I left because other things gained my interest. 
 

However, with the LIV in the news I don’t trust the main golf media to report factually or truthfully on LIV because they have an extreme bias against Norman, and they aren’t reporting the news about LIV without injecting their opinions in every story. 
 

So I cane back here to read other’s thoughts and opinions on LIV. To be clear, I’m simply looking for objective coverage of LIV. Whether you hate it or whatever, at least give it a chance to breathe. 
 

I’m not here to cheerlead for either LIV or the PGA Tour. I’m simply interested in gathering truthful information about LIV and what the rest of the golf world is doing in response, and I can’t really get that from blowholes like Brandel Chamblee on Golf Channel. Frankly I think it’s shameful that so many in the golf media are nothing more than pimps for the PGA Tour. I don’t trust them and I tune them out. 
 

That’s it, that’s my story. But frankly, I won’t stick around here because most of what I’ve read and seen doesn’t impress me as much more than a clique here where outsiders who haven’t been here and sacrificed on the altar aren’t welcomed. Don’t bother because I won’t waste any more of my time explaining myself or apologizing for asking questions that get overlooked and then insulted for thinking I’m a moron for not understanding how the system works, when if you had actually read the first sentence of my original post in this thread then you’d not have so easily dismissed me and mocked me. 
 

whatever. Carry on in your echo chamber. 

I agree, the PGA Tour is the golden goose for some of the media folks like Brandel and the broadcast crews because they work for partner organizations and need to promote it. 

 

Then there are the third parties like Shipnuck and No Laying Up that are virtue signaling in public, but revelling in private due to all the content this is helping them generate for more clicks

 

 

[Ezgolfer]

1 hour ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

I’ll help you out here. I opened a wrx account years ago and took a test drive of these forums back then and lost interest pretty quick. Just talking about clubs and grips and WITB of pros honestly doesn’t interest me much, but that seems to be the main emphasis of this forum. So I left because other things gained my interest. 
 

However, with the LIV in the news I don’t trust the main golf media to report factually or truthfully on LIV because they have an extreme bias against Norman, and they aren’t reporting the news about LIV without injecting their opinions in every story. 
 

So I cane back here to read other’s thoughts and opinions on LIV. To be clear, I’m simply looking for objective coverage of LIV. Whether you hate it or whatever, at least give it a chance to breathe. 
 

I’m not here to cheerlead for either LIV or the PGA Tour. I’m simply interested in gathering truthful information about LIV and what the rest of the golf world is doing in response, and I can’t really get that from blowholes like Brandel Chamblee on Golf Channel. Frankly I think it’s shameful that so many in the golf media are nothing more than pimps for the PGA Tour. I don’t trust them and I tune them out. 
 

That’s it, that’s my story. But frankly, I won’t stick around here because most of what I’ve read and seen doesn’t impress me as much more than a clique here where outsiders who haven’t been here and sacrificed on the altar aren’t welcomed. Don’t bother because I won’t waste any more of my time explaining myself or apologizing for asking questions that get overlooked and then insulted for thinking I’m a moron for not understanding how the system works, when if you had actually read the first sentence of my original post in this thread then you’d not have so easily dismissed me and mocked me. 
 

whatever. Carry on in your echo chamber. 

So ad to see you go… Lol

[Ezgolfer]

Edited

Edited June 26, 2022 by Ezgolfer
Double post

[oikos1]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Your issue isn’t with media. Or this site ( which is media already partnered with the pga tour ).  
 

it’s with the lack of a LIV echo chamber …. That’s just how it is. The majority of golf fans don’t want to see pro competition  turned into a short , shotgun , no cut event.  So the echo in favor of that is small.  
 

give it room ?  Why ?  They can have as much room as they buy.  The core fans will voice their displeasure at the attempt to dumb down golf.  It’s really odd to  even ask is to pretend that we like this.  It’s a non starter. DOA. 

Wait.  What?  GolfWRX is media partnered with the PGA Tour?  I just read the WRX "who we are" statement and saw just a small mention of why and how they use PGA Tour range photos.  Not a peep about a partnership with the PGA Tour.  In fact, WRX seems to strive to not be affiliated with any company or organization, going so far as to say:

 

"It was clear I was in the wrong place, and I needed to find a new outlet that wasn’t motivated by profit. GolfWRX was started because such an outlet didn’t exist, and since the beginning it has been a place where golfers can learn, share, and discuss their thoughts with other golfers. "...for that reason we’re not dependent on site revenue for our livelihoods".

 

"True to our mission, we will also continue to prize and protect the purity of the opinions of our readers, and will evolve our platforms to make them more engaging. We want our readers to feel proud to contribute to GolfWRX, and protect their interests by offering an unbiased place for them to learn, share, and discuss."

 

 

[grm24]

13 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Clearly the point of the post was to show how many don’t understand, at all, how it works.  Or really follow this as closely as they think they do.

 

To reply to a few posts….

yes, the euros know who Billy Ho is…he won the BMW PGA Championship last fall, one of their biggest events

 

and yes, I’m sure he got a conflicting event release.

 

they do not need a release for the Scottish Open…it is now a do-sponsored event with the DP tour.

 

One said the DP tour helps putting on the Presidents Cup. Pretty certain that’s wrong. Just the RC.

 

No, Sergio and others could not have played the Travelers….you may have missed it but they were all suspended…indefinitely.m

 

 

Seems odd to me that so many are ok with LIV enforcing attendance at all events while  the PGA and DP tour let the players make their own schedule but need a release to play elsewhere.   What really confuses me is the number of posts that complain it’s not fair when the players have signed an agreement to that effect.  
Has anyone read anything about the players that want to LIV claiming they were unfairly treated?  That the ban blindsided them?  I may have missed it but they all knew the consequences to signing on with LIV.  Including their freedom to play where they want.  

Shilgy..... Horschel and a few other players on the PGA Tour are members of both the PGA and DP tours concurrently. If a player is a member of both tours does a PGA Tour player still need a release to play a DP Tour event? Honest question. IIRC they do have to declare what their primary tour is. Horschel finished 2nd last year on the DP Tour and Collin Morikawa was first on their Race To Dubai.

[OrangeGravy]

14 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Wait.  What?  GolfWRX is media partnered with the PGA Tour?  I just read the WRX "who we are" statement and saw just a small mention of why and how they use PGA Tour range photos.  Not a peep about a partnership with the PGA Tour.  In fact, WRX seems to strive to not be affiliated with any company or organization, going so far as to say:

 

"It was clear I was in the wrong place, and I needed to find a new outlet that wasn’t motivated by profit. GolfWRX was started because such an outlet didn’t exist, and since the beginning it has been a place where golfers can learn, share, and discuss their thoughts with other golfers. "...for that reason we’re not dependent on site revenue for our livelihoods".

 

"True to our mission, we will also continue to prize and protect the purity of the opinions of our readers, and will evolve our platforms to make them more engaging. We want our readers to feel proud to contribute to GolfWRX, and protect their interests by offering an unbiased place for them to learn, share, and discuss."

 

 

I think that partnership is fairly new. I recall seeing an announcement thread around the time all the platform changes happened, whenever that was

[grm24]

19 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Wait.  What?  GolfWRX is media partnered with the PGA Tour?  I just read the WRX "who we are" statement and saw just a small mention of why and how they use PGA Tour range photos.  Not a peep about a partnership with the PGA Tour.  In fact, WRX seems to strive to not be affiliated with any company or organization, going so far as to say:

Appears you missed the announcement thread back in February.

 

 

 

[mannyvizcaya]

On 6/24/2022 at 5:37 AM, DaddySwagMaster said:

Before 10,000 of you jump on me and point out what I already know, that the DP World Tour and the PGA Tour are in bed with each other, and players are free to play events on either Tour as they see fit, but I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of all of this.  I mean, let's call a spade a spade.  The PGA Tour has a problem with Greg Norman, pure and simple.

 

We've got a PGA Tour event in Connecticut going on this week, and a DP World Tour event in Germany going on.  So I pulled up the leaderboard for the DP World Tour event and I see this collection of players...

 

So did Billy get a "conflicting event release" from the PGA Tour?  I mean, it's in direct competition to the Travelers Championship going on at the same time.

So I guess Louis Oosthuizen, Sergio Garcia, Pablo Larrazabal, among others currently playing on the LIV Tour are free to play all the DP World Tour events they want?

 

I honestly don't care if you disagree with me, but this is such blatant hypocrisy.  Just come out and admit that you just hate Greg Norman and be done with it.  This is personal to Monahan and nothing more.

BS. The PGA Tour didn't have a problem with Greg "I need to be noticed" Norman. 

Rather Greg Norman has always had a problem with the PGA Tour.

He's like a pimple that needs to be popped.

LIV will dump him sooner or later.

[Thayneil]

On 6/25/2022 at 12:18 AM, redfirebird08 said:

Dave nailed it in the 2nd post of this thread. Euro Tour does not have any of its schedule on American soil, never mind 60% of the schedule on American soil for LIV Golf. 

US open   Masters and  PGA are part of the  Euro tour schedule 

[Short Pete]

Billy Horschel won the BMW PGA and the WCG match play last year. He should hold a membership on the DP Tour if he opted to. Do you need a release if you are a member on an other tour and play more than 15 events on the PGA? If so, I‘m sure he has one. 
 

And for the other players: Commish Pelley declared the sanctions while the players were on the course for the first round. Kaymer for example teed off on Thursday, not knowing anything. After having signed his card Pelley told him he had to pay a fine of 116.000€ for playing LIV. That’s ridiculous. Tell them beforehand, you dork. 
 

And the LIV is not a tour. It’s an exhibition series you cannot qualify for. It’s not held in an appropriate format, there’s no ranking points. It is sportswashing, the urge to show what you can do with limitless money, and the revenge of the Great White Fish Finger, who thinks he should be named in a row with Nicklaus and Woods, but sometimes forgets that Jim Demaret and Larry Nelson have won more majors. 

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, mannyvizcaya said:

BS. The PGA Tour didn't have a problem with Greg "I need to be noticed" Norman. 

Rather Greg Norman has always had a problem with the PGA Tour.

To be fair, i'm sure they did have a problem with him prior to this, but for good reason given HIS outspoken problems with the tour. But I agree, and nothing sours the credibility of an argument on a complex issue faster than attempting to reduce it down to something as puerile as "they just hate Greg".  

[Jimi Thing]

The true angle to this is the PGA used to be the biggest fish in the pond, and they no longer are. From that angle, allowing the existence of tours like the DP is easy. 
 

I have my reservations about LIV, but it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if it was funded with “clean” money. 
 

Just reading the pga contract should raise eyebrows with many. It’s about them and pretty much them only. Not for the players. 

[elwhippy]

Billy is a fully fledged member of the DP Tour. Not sure what anyone is picking an argument for? 

[Short Pete]

2 hours ago, Jimi Thing said:

The true angle to this is the PGA used to be the biggest fish in the pond, and they no longer are. From that angle, allowing the existence of tours like the DP is easy. 
 

I have my reservations about LIV, but it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if it was funded with “clean” money. 
 

Just reading the pga contract should raise eyebrows with many. It’s about them and pretty much them only. Not for the players. 

The clean money isn’t the main thing. It’s throwing 6- or 7- figure amounts of money to players who have done nothing to deserve it. Turk Pettit won the Billy-Boilermaker Open on a tour I’ve never heard from. Hennie Du Plessis won the Owambo Bulabumbi Open (names of tourneys may not be 100% correct) on the Sunshine Tour. At the end of the year these guys are prize money millionaires. This is ridiculous! 

[oikos1]

8 hours ago, grm24 said:

Appears you missed the announcement thread back in February.

 

 

 

"provide industry-leading coverage of PGA Tour equipment"

 

Are you suggesting GolfWRX is providing biased coverage to favor the PGA Tour in terms of equipment reviews or any other related PGA Tour issues?  To use a popular phrase around here, there is a difference between doing business with and being a pawn of.  Yeah, I think that's how that one goes.

 

I'm not sure we would be talking about the LIV or PGA Tour/World Tour hypocrisy if that were the case.

[bladehunter]

8 hours ago, oikos1 said:

Wait.  What?  GolfWRX is media partnered with the PGA Tour?  I just read the WRX "who we are" statement and saw just a small mention of why and how they use PGA Tour range photos.  Not a peep about a partnership with the PGA Tour.  In fact, WRX seems to strive to not be affiliated with any company or organization, going so far as to say:

 

"It was clear I was in the wrong place, and I needed to find a new outlet that wasn’t motivated by profit. GolfWRX was started because such an outlet didn’t exist, and since the beginning it has been a place where golfers can learn, share, and discuss their thoughts with other golfers. "...for that reason we’re not dependent on site revenue for our livelihoods".

 

"True to our mission, we will also continue to prize and protect the purity of the opinions of our readers, and will evolve our platforms to make them more engaging. We want our readers to feel proud to contribute to GolfWRX, and protect their interests by offering an unbiased place for them to learn, share, and discuss."

 

 

Yep. You missed it. But I’m not judging there. It’s usually me who misses these things because I’m not on any of the other social media. . Lol. 
 

but it’s true. LIV won’t get any special treatment here.  

 

by that I mean that they won’t get their free echo chamber that the OP here wants.  Members here aren’t being silenced for talking out against them .  Nor are people being silenced for being pro LIV.  I think the mods have done a great job with it.  

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by bladehunter

[BottleCap]

3 hours ago, elwhippy said:

Billy is a fully fledged member of the DP Tour. Not sure what anyone is picking an argument for? 

I think thats the issue, why is Billy a member of two tours and Kaymer cant play exhibitions on the side