Received New Irons, but Disappointed

[danfido]

I'm trying to understand whether my first range session with my brand new irons are indicative of a not-great fit in my new JPX 921 HMP irons (specifically the shafts). Previous irons were Callaway XR Pros with Matrix Ozik Program F15 120 shafts. I was not fitted to those shafts, they were a shot in the dark. I like the feel, but I lost a lot of distance with them. I went in to a GolfTEC for a fitting end of April. Because of my height (6'5"), the selection of iron shafts I could swing was limited to what they had on hand that was an inch over standard. I got fitted to JPX 921 HMP and XP95 shafts. They felt way better when I would hit them pure. I also gained almost 15 yards in distance, and while my dispersion wasn't an improvement, it was getting tighter the more I swung the combo. I placed the order with my GolfTEC fitter a couple days later. A couple hours after placing the order, my fitter called me back and said the XP95 shaft wasn't available through Mizuno anymore, so the Mizuno rep suggested substituting the DG105 shafts, as it was the closest thing they had available. I did not swing the DG105 in my fitting, but took my fitter's (and the Mizuno rep's) advice and ordered the DG105s.

 

Clubs came in today, 8 weeks later. I took them to the range and was... underwhelmed. Using the swing I've grooved from my old set of clubs, I was slicing every iron shot, trajectory was quite low, and the feel wasn't as good as I remembered. It wasn't until the end of the range session that I started closing the club face at address, which produced a higher ball flight and slight cut, if not dead straight.

 

So with that back story told, here's what I'm pondering.

 

1. Was I an idiot for going ahead with the DG105s without getting fit for them?

2. Is what I've described indicative of what the difference may be between the XP95 and the DG105?

 

Thanks for any insight anyone might have!

[Carolina Golfer 2]

My experience is the DG and XP are significantly different profiles and throw in the weight differed and yes.  A chsnge in performance is not surprising to me.  You shouldn’t have to make adjustments to the way you swing or hold the club to make a new club work. 
 

i won’t even mention my thoughts on Golftec as that would derail your thread.  But personally I’d be looking into Goltecs return policy.    But won’t be shocked if they don’t have one. 
 

sorry this happened.  

Edited June 25, 2022 by Carolina Golfer 2

[danfido]

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking and was afraid of. They were shipped straight to me, so I haven't had them checked to make sure lie is accurate, and I've seen feedback that QC hasn't been spectacular from Mizuno as they've been rushing through backlogged orders.

 

I'm reaching out to my GolfTEC fitter to go over the scenario, and schedule an appt to get them looked at to check accuracy of specs.

[tatertot]

I'm confused and disappointed by your experiences with these "professional" fitters. 

 

I would recommend trying your clubs at the range again, and if you're not 100% satisfied, demand a refund, with no silly restocking fees. Way too much money spent (and time wasted) to be yanked around like this (we only have a few shafts for YOU ... oh, those shafts we spent all that time perfecting, I forgot they're not available ... hey, let's just rush you into these instead, they're all pretty much the same anyway). What a joke.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

38 minutes ago, danfido said:

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking and was afraid of. They were shipped straight to me, so I haven't had them checked to make sure lie is accurate, and I've seen feedback that QC hasn't been spectacular from Mizuno as they've been rushing through backlogged orders.

 

I'm reaching out to my GolfTEC fitter to go over the scenario, and schedule an appt to get them looked at to check accuracy of specs.

Also.  I don’t know if your fitter factored this in.  Mizuno irons typically are 1* flatter lie than most other OEM stock lies.  So that would also lead to a bit more left to right flight. 

[Greenie]

When I was fit for my Mizuno irons some yrs ago I experienced a big difference between the DG and XP shafts during my fitting. The XP shafts were smoother with a higher ball flight and added distance for me. Both sets of Mizuno irons I have I was fitted into the XP shafts. I really like that shaft. I wouldn't say the DG's are the closest thing to the XP.

[Jeff58]

15 hours ago, danfido said:

1. Was I an idiot for going ahead with the DG105s without getting fit for them?

2. Is what I've described indicative of what the difference may be between the XP95 and the DG105?

1. No. The idea of fitting is that the fitter is competent and will provide a suitable solution. It’s not your job to fully understand the subtleties of XP, ET, or XYZ.

 

2. That their performance characteristics differ isn’t surprising. How they differ is mostly personal. IMO the nasty factor here is that they built an inch over standard. Built with no compensation, they will be heavier, have high swing weighs, and altered CG’s from what you had in the fitting. Unless the person building the clubs is highly knowledgeable and is willing and able to compensate into an intended build spec that he doesn’t actually know, the results will be unpredictable, but unlikely to be “better”. 

[Klubster]

AS was mentioned, the shafts are quite different with the xp95 being a high launch shaft while the DG is low to medium.  No wonder you did not get the ball flight you expected.  They should pull and replace those shafts.  Their Elevate shafts would have been more similar.

[jeggolfer68]

I would return these irons and demand full refund. Then check on ebay, second swing, etc for clubs with that exact shaft. As far as an inch over, don't assume this is required because of your height. Find an experienced club fitter who can adjust your ebay set to your specs. 

[danfido]

For those that care, I figured I'd give an update.

 

I went in to GolfTEC, fully intending to "demand" them to make it right; test out my old and new clubs on a launch monitor, and assuming what I was seeing and feeling on the range translated, work with them on what they could do to make it right.

 

Instead, it turned into a de-facto swing evaluation. We looked at my swing with my old club, and dissected it, and found a pretty simple thing to work on (eliminate hip and head movement away from ball during backswing). There was no discussion about whether the shafts are a good fit for me, whether the heads are a good fit for me, etc. It was purely swing mechanics.

 

Needless to say, I walked away from the session fairly discouraged. It was obvious that they had no intention to replace anything; I had shared in an email going in that was something I wanted them to respond to, and it never came up. I've been to the range twice and once on the course, and while I'm still getting used to the new swing changes, and so am mis-hitting my fair share of shots, the irons are performing beautifully for me! Good ball flight, much more consistent, great feeling, and I've gained at least one club in distance from my previous irons. It's a new swing and it's a new 

 

So what have I learned? This particular fitter, at this particular GolfTEC, is someone I'd definitely consider going to for lessons moving forward. For fittings or equipment advice? Not a chance. He has told me a number of times that shaft (whether in irons or driver) has such little impact on performance that I likely won't see any difference between flexes or profiles of shafts. While I'm not informed enough to argue with him, I strongly disagree. I recently ordered an Evenflow Riptide shaft from CPO to throw in my Mavrik in place of the Fuji Vista Pro (original) I've been gaming the last couple years, and have gained about 10 yards in distance and have seen improved dispersion.

 

So for now, I'm sticking with the irons. Maybe some day down the road I'll try and pick up a single HMP in my specs in the shaft they fit me to and compare. There will probably always be the "what if" factor in the back of my head, especially on the bad days. But for right now, I'll keep working on my swing with what I have.

Edited July 12, 2022 by danfido
misspell

[Klubster]

With swing fixes, your old irons may have improved too.  Sounds like you got the runaround.

[jeggolfer68]

I feel the fitting industry is mostly smoke and mirrors. Lessons with a solid teaching pro is the real deal. A good player with a fundamentally good swing can hit any club with any shaft. Last summer I brought my 1970 Wilson Staff laminated driver, s300 steel shaft to the range for a 22 year old who had never hit a wooden club or a steel shaft. He is scratch and bets were made how he would do. First hole is 340 with water bordering right side of entire hole. He pounded a perfectly straight drive to 30 yards short of the green. I've seen other examples of the same thing. Get your swing fundamentals in line then buy the clubs that fit your eye. Skip the fitting session, don't pay for puring. Lessons and practice. Just my opinion.

 

[tatertot]

4 hours ago, danfido said:

For those that care, I figured I'd give an update.

 

I went in to GolfTEC, fully intending to "demand" them to make it right; test out my old and new clubs on a launch monitor, and assuming what I was seeing and feeling on the range translated, work with them on what they could do to make it right.

 

Instead, it turned into a de-facto swing evaluation. We looked at my swing with my old club, and dissected it, and found a pretty simple thing to work on (eliminate hip and head movement away from ball during backswing). There was no discussion about whether the shafts are a good fit for me, whether the heads are a good fit for me, etc. It was purely swing mechanics.

 

Needless to say, I walked away from the session fairly discouraged. It was obvious that they had no intention to replace anything; I had shared in an email going in that was something I wanted them to respond to, and it never came up. I've been to the range twice and once on the course, and while I'm still getting used to the new swing changes, and so am mis-hitting my fair share of shots, the irons are performing beautifully for me! Good ball flight, much more consistent, great feeling, and I've gained at least one club in distance from my previous irons. It's a new swing and it's a new 

 

So what have I learned? This particular fitter, at this particular GolfTEC, is someone I'd definitely consider going to for lessons moving forward. For fittings or equipment advice? Not a chance. He has told me a number of times that shaft (whether in irons or driver) has such little impact on performance that I likely won't see any difference between flexes or profiles of shafts. While I'm not informed enough to argue with him, I strongly disagree. I recently ordered an Evenflow Riptide shaft from CPO to throw in my Mavrik in place of the Fuji Vista Pro (original) I've been gaming the last couple years, and have gained about 10 yards in distance and have seen improved dispersion.

 

So for now, I'm sticking with the irons. Maybe some day down the road I'll try and pick up a single HMP in my specs in the shaft they fit me to and compare. There will probably always be the "what if" factor in the back of my head, especially on the bad days. But for right now, I'll keep working on my swing with what I have.

Wow ... what a scam artist. Sounds like it's not his first time down this road.

[Jmccas]

He has told me a number of times that shaft (whether in irons or driver) has such little impact on performance that I likely won't see any difference between flexes or profiles of shafts. 
 

I think this a Golftec philosophy which might be influenced by their lack of shaft options for their fits. 
 

I have a buddy that’s a high swing speed player playing regular flex shafts. He’s taking lessons there and they’ve told him him the exact same regarding shaft flex. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Jmccas

[Greenie]

I wouldn't be happy with the run around you received.

 

Why did he look at your swing with your old clubs and dissect your swing? You got fit for new clubs. I can see looking at your swing with your new clubs and making suggestions on your swing with your new clubs. If those suggestions help you fine. My next step would be to compare the clubs I was fitted to and the clubs I actually received on a launch monitor to see if there was that much difference in performance. 

 

In my case I came in wanting the DG105's and my fitter showed me I was hitting the XP95's better so I went with them. Yes I could have played either shaft. The DG105's performed well but the XP95's performed better for me. IMO that's the whole idea of getting fit. Finding the best fit for you. I saw enough difference in my fitting to agree with my fitter and go with the XP95's. The DG105's wasn't a poor fit for me but was not the best fit either.

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Jmccas said:

He has told me a number of times that shaft (whether in irons or driver) has such little impact on performance that I likely won't see any difference between flexes or profiles of shafts. 
 

 

 

I hope this doesn't break any WRX Rules but,,,,,,,,,,

 

BALDERDASH !!! 🤦‍♀️

 

[danfido]

14 hours ago, Greenie said:

Why did he look at your swing with your old clubs and dissect your swing? You got fit for new clubs. I can see looking at your swing with your new clubs and making suggestions on your swing with your new clubs. If those suggestions help you fine. My next step would be to compare the clubs I was fitted to and the clubs I actually received on a launch monitor to see if there was that much difference in performance. 

 

He had me warm up with my old 7i, but I see I failed to mention that we worked on my swing with the new 7i.

[danfido]

In regards to the impact of shafts on irons, I found this TXG video posted elsewhere in the forums. Again, I'm not knowledgeable enough to stay firmly on one side of the line or the other, but the data here is pretty interesting.

 

 

[ChipNRun]

Here are the specs on the two shafts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The XP95 shafts are 8 grams lighter, launch higher and spin more; plus, as per The GolfWorks shaft link, they have hook control.

 

Evidently the XP95s flew a bit higher for you than the DG105s. But, the added weight of the DG105s may have been a drag on clubhead when, combined with more mid-launch, caused lower trajectory. Plus, the feel between the two was probably different.

 

It appears we are in the age of Custom(not!) golf clubs. Many OEMs include this or a similar disclaimer on their order site: "Due to supply chain shortages, we may need to substitute an equivalent shaft or grip for what you ordered.😪"

 

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by ChipNRun
Re-set image.

[lefty1978]

Your fitter is a fool to say that dg105 and xp95 are similar. He probably just saw both were made by true temper and went with it. Getting fit is a great idea, as long as you have a very knowledgeable fitter. Also, what fitter still has xp95s in their fitting cart? Weren't those discontinued year ago? You can still find many new uncut sets of xp95 online, but not through true temper or any club manufacturer.

[teedub21]

I’ve played both shafts and similar results. XP95 definitely worked better for me. Was underwhelmed and disappointed with the DG105’s. 

[Gerr]

FYI...

 

Dynalite Gold -> Dynalite Gold XP -> XP -> Elevate...all are basically the same shaft/profile with minor tweaks made each generation.  The mid-weight shafts(~115g) will be mid launch/spin with a medium tip while the lighter shafts(~95g) will be high launch/spin with a soft tip.  Dynamic Gold's at all weights are supposed to be low launch/spin with a stiff tip, but more like mid-low for the DG 105's.

 

As others have said, the DG 105 was not a good sub for the XP 95, the Elevate 95's would have been much closer as they are basically the replacement for that shaft.