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What exactly is Endo Forged and why is it desirable?


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As a fairly new owner of the Zx7s, I am quite intrigued by the features of this iron. 

One of the more prominent features is the "Endo forging", so I wanted to get some of your opinions as to what it is exactly and why it is desirable?

 

Thanks!

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15 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Third ZX7 thread since Friday...also, there is a search function with multiple results about "Endo Forging".

 

I guess you can tell I am a bit excited to say the least lol

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Endo forged irons tend to feel softer than cast or other forged irons.  I've tested Epon irons before and my dad has a set from many eons ago and I can say that when the ball comes off the face of a well struck shot, it feels like a marshmallow.  

Edited by phizzy30

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Just now, hagimihale said:

Endo is one of the best (or at least well-known) forging foundaries in Japan.  They forge their own in-house brand (Epon) and have acted as the "forging vendor" for a number of JDM and US-market companies.  

 

Srixon, Bridgestone and Yamaha are some well known JDM brands (yes I know Srixon sells to US market).

 

Endo also has forged for Titleist (690 MB), Nike (VR blades), Mizuno (JPX 825 Pro).  Regarding Mizuno, when the JPX 825 Pro came out, Mizuno did not have the technology to make a forged cavity back head with an undercut channel, so Endo made the heads and Mizuno finished them.  I believe Mizuno brought it back in-house with the JPX 850 Forged lineup.

 

Kyoei is another top foundary. They do their own in-house brand, and also make Vega clubs. 

 

I believe that both Miura and Honma own their own foundaries.

 

There is no "proof" that Endo-forged irons are "better" than Kyoei, or those made by Miura or Honma's foundaries.   But I'd consider Endo's stuff about as good as you can get...

 

I gave my little bro my old set of Vega VDC-01 irons.  They feel soooooo good on a nutted shot.  Butter/marshmallow is what I would describe it as. 

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@phizzy30, Vegas are sweet.   I have a few wedges (VW-04, VW-06, VW-10) in the garage at the moment.  I agree with your assessment, they are as soft as anything else I've hit.

 

May be listing the VW-04 on BST.  They are a better fit for sweepers, more like a Vokey M grind (or maybe cross between that and L grind).  I prefer the leading edge on the 06 and 10 models...

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3 hours ago, hagimihale said:

Endo is one of the best (or at least well-known) forging foundaries in Japan.  They forge their own in-house brand (Epon) and have acted as the "forging vendor" for a number of JDM and US-market companies.  

 

Srixon, Bridgestone and Yamaha are some well known JDM brands (yes I know Srixon sells to US market).

 

Endo also has forged for Titleist (690 MB), Nike (VR blades), Mizuno (JPX 825 Pro).  Regarding Mizuno, when the JPX 825 Pro came out, Mizuno did not have the technology to make a forged cavity back head with an undercut channel, so Endo made the heads and Mizuno finished them.  I believe Mizuno brought it back in-house with the JPX 850 Forged lineup.

 

[rest deleted for brevity]

 

I guess I know to stick to Endo forgings then as I loved my JPX 825 Pros and love my ZX7s even more. 🙂

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Endo is good forging house but they aren't any better or worse than other forging houses. It all comes down to QC and design by the OEM.  Think of BMW, whether it made at the US plant or Germany, it's the same car.

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@J13, completely agree.  The stuff that comes out of Honma's Sakata foundary is as good as anything Endo does.  Miura's feel is legendary.  And I'd love to get my hands on some Kyoei KK CB irons, to test them against my Grindworks (Endo forged) and my buddy's Miuras side-by-side...

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15 hours ago, hagimihale said:

@J13, completely agree.  The stuff that comes out of Honma's Sakata foundary is as good as anything Endo does.  Miura's feel is legendary.  And I'd love to get my hands on some Kyoei KK CB irons, to test them against my Grindworks (Endo forged) and my buddy's Miuras side-by-side...

Miura is another good example.  Long history in the business and what makes them what they are is QC and pride in what they do.  But I think we lose sight of the fact that 90% of golfers don't know who they are.  

 

Here on Golfwrx we love the stories behind the stories like Miura making Nike irons or Titleist irons for Tiger.  That stuff is super cool but most of the world couldn't care less haha.

Edited by J13
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What's interesting is a bunch of the irons I have played have been Endo forged. I don't consider myself "good enough" to notice a huge difference, but I will say they have spoiled me. Maybe it's placebo. 🤣

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These irons are amazing, at least to me.  Last set was stolen but had to get a new set of heads for a build

 

Srixon Z745's 

 

1559756673_Clubswithbuildsheet.jpg.b1868d1e7c9451002b42731d0a6b9469.jpg

 

 

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2 hours ago, lefthack said:

What's interesting is a bunch of the irons I have played have been Endo forged. I don't consider myself "good enough" to notice a huge difference, but I will say they have spoiled me. Maybe it's placebo. 🤣

 

 

I have yet to meet anyone who can tell the difference between good forgings.  So don't feel bad.  What people also forget is how big of a factor the ball is with sound/feel.

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8 minutes ago, FirePro said:

These irons are amazing, at least to me.  Last set was stolen but had to get a new set of heads for a build

 

Srixon Z745's 

 

1559756673_Clubswithbuildsheet.jpg.b1868d1e7c9451002b42731d0a6b9469.jpg

 

 

 

That's going to be a hell of a bag. Call me jealous. 

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I buy Tourstage and Bridgestone and Mizuno. Endo products are similar in quality to Mizuno, and weight sorting on the j33cb etc is usually perfect. Cant go wrong with Endo.After trying clicky blades and other blades (3sets) from another company i stick with Bs Ts and Mzy 👍Srixon 7 series always popular!

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The majority of Endo made iron heads come from Thailand, not Japan.  Their clubs are known for using softer steel than many other OEMs, often 1020 where others use 1025/1030/1035 steel, which is why they often have a soft feel.  

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1 hour ago, Nessism said:

The majority of Endo made iron heads come from Thailand, not Japan.  Their clubs are known for using softer steel than many other OEMs, often 1020 where others use 1025/1030/1035 steel, which is why they often have a soft feel.  

Correct and there are good and bad things about using softer steel.

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9 hours ago, ZacR88 said:

You know the guy in Kill Bill that forged her samuari sword? Same dude. 

Funny you should mention the samurai sword master craftsman @ZacR88

 

am guessing you’ve also seen various references to “Hattori Hanzo” (the same samurai sword master craftsman) in the Miura marketing spiel

 

eg “ Miura, a first cousin of legendary Japanese sword-maker Hattori Hanzo“

 

“Miura hand forged irons are patterned after legendary sword maker Hattori Hanzo, descendant of the Miura family ” etc

 

https://www.si.com/golf/travel/feature-2018-10-31-the-mastery-of-miura
 

 

maybe this is the “Narnia on the JDM” that @Aviador Navalmentioned in an earlier post?

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6 hours ago, J13 said:

 

 

I have yet to meet anyone who can tell the difference between good forgings.  So don't feel bad.  What people also forget is how big of a factor the ball is with sound/feel.

 

To be honest I haven't noticed a ton of difference in balls, either. 🤣 

 

But I will tell you when you flush one with the Haywood MB, the feeling is glorious. They aren't Endo forged, but they feel amazing and it's tough to beat the price. 

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Endo, Muira, Kyoei, Mizuno…they are all top notch. And very similar methods of forging but with slight variations. Often the small differences in feel or sound are the plating not the forging. It would be fun to hit them all in raw form and see if there are any noticeable differences 

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I’ve owned and own so many sets of Bstone/Tourstage.  Love endo forgings they do have a softer feels & sound.

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Endo forged means they forged at that forging factory. Not sure which companies are being forged there any more. 

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