Question about college coach recruiting

[Jackal]

There is a local golfer  that just graduated. 

He got a full ride  scholarship to a local college.

Back at the first if this year, he went on a visit and the coach liked everything and said he was good to go, and he can walk on.

His handicap is equal to the 5th??? bag on the team of 10 players now.

  This player signed up with the college ( academics) filled  out his schedule, and is ready for fall.

Now the coach won't  return calls, says that his roster is full, but he keeps showing up qnd recruiting at JR PGA events???

 

The coach says he needs to see scores from events ( the player  has provided these).

 

The coach is very disliked by the local  golf community, but keeps lying and stringing this kid along.

Several of the local pro shops said they would take this kid in a heartbeat.

He's  athletic, high honors, and free to the team.

 I'm  not familiar  enough  with the recruiting, etc to give the family advice, but has anyone here seen this kind of behavior?

 

Thanks 

  

Edited June 30, 2022 by Jackal

[heavy_hitter]

So I am assuming he received a full academic ride if he is walking on.  That scholarship has nothing to do with golf.

 

Juniors and College players don't use handicaps.  He may have a scoring average close to the 5th, but what does that mean and what type of events is the kid playing in?  If he needs to provide scoring, then I think it is safe to assume he hasn't played in JGS ranked events to accumulate a national ranking as the coach would be able to see all of those scores already.   He wants to see Ranked Events with fields of 36 or more players while playing from close to 7000 yards.

 

Allowing a player to Walk-On is not a guaranteed spot on the roster.  If the coach isn't returning calls, he probably is trying to reduce his roster size because kids are still using Covid Years.  Is it crappy that he hasn't returned calls, sure.  Still no guarantees with Walk Ons.

 

He isn't recruiting for the year 2022 right now.  No one is.  He is looking at 2023's, 24's, and 25's.

 

I will add this as well.  No coach is trying to find a #5 bag.  They are recruiting 3 and better bags.  He already has a roster full of #5 bags.

[Abh159]

53 minutes ago, Jackal said:

He got a full ride  scholarship to a local college.

Back at the first if this year, he went on a visit and the coach liked everything and said he was good to go, and he can walk on.

 

I assume by this you mean he has a full academic scholarship?

 

Unfortunately, as a non-athletic scholarship student athlete the kid probably doesn't have a leg to stand on here. Walk-ons wouldn't sign an NLI so there is nothing legally binding this kid to an athletic scholarship or spot on the team.

 

Also, since you used the kid's handicap as a measurement of his playing abilities and that the coach is recruiting at PGA Jr events I'm assuming we're talking about a very small DII, DIII, or NAIA school. If that's the case, the teams are most likely limited by their budget to the number of roster spots they have. Sure, the kid might not be an expense from a scholarship standpoint, but he's still a potential expense from an equipment, apparel, and misc. standpoint.

 

All that isn't to say the coach is right or acting in an ethical way. I'm just trying to point out that it might not be a cut and dry as saying he's "free to the team".

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Abh159

[heavy_hitter]

55 minutes ago, Jackal said:

 

Several of the local pro shops said they would take this kid in a heartbeat.

 

  

I will add this and it will come out like I am being a jack@@@, but it is a relative question.  What do guys at a local pro shop know about playing collegiate golf?  Serious Question because I can go down to the local rec department gym and they will think a kid is worthy of playing college basketball just because he is better than the people that play at the center. 

 

Has the kids own teaching professional/coach called to talk to the coach or given any guidance?  Even then, a lot of Teaching Professionals are clueless on tournament and collegiate level golf.

[Jackal]

Well, as to the experience 2 of the pros at the pro shops are ex college D1  coaches.

One worked extensively with the Oklahoma OU golf team from 2006-2010.

Another is a swing coach rep for Taylormade and sometimes TM Flys him to events  when PGA pros are having equipment  problems.

So, given that  I would say they are pretty well versed in golf.

I'm  not going to mention their names without their permission. 

 

3 of them played on the Web.com/ Nike tour for a while,  also.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Jackal

[Jackal]

The guys in the pro shops ( at the courses) watch these college  kids practice,  and shoot 73-81 day in , day out. 

They see this recent grad shoot 75-76  on the same days at the same courses.

This D2 team goes to tournaments and never do better  than  10th place out of 12 teams.

 

[Jackal]

1 hour ago, Abh159 said:

 

I assume by this  Walk-ons wouldn't sign an NLI so there is nothing legally binding this kid to an athletic scholarship or spot on the team.

 

 

 

The coach even told them back in February???

That the kid would sign a National Letter of Intent??

 

I'm  starting to think  this coach can't  handle his position. 

 This is his first college coaching position.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Jackal

[tssgj65]

If the coach isn't returning calls now, it will not be a good fit PERIOD.  A courteous coach would at least "man up" and talk to the kid why his decision has changed.  An athlete will want a coach to be honest and have integrity!  RUN from this situation and find a much better FIT!

[Abh159]

4 minutes ago, Jackal said:

The coach even told them back in February???

That the kid would sign a National Letter of Intent??

 

I'm  starting to think  this coach can't  handle his position. 

 This is his first college coaching position.

 

You wouldn't sign an NLI if you aren't on an athletic scholarship. Walk-on players don't receive financial aid (athletic) from the university, so there would be no benefit to signing an NLI for either party in that case.

 

The whole thing really sucks for this kid, but unfortunately there is nothing he can do shy of transferring to another school if he wants to play college golf. It seems pretty obvious based on what you're saying that the coach has no interest in this kid being on the team (regardless of what he may have told him months ago).  

[Jackal]

6 minutes ago, tssgj65 said:

If the coach isn't returning calls now, it will not be a good fit PERIOD.  A courteous coach would at least "man up" and talk to the kid why his decision has changed.  An athlete will want a coach to be honest and have integrity!  RUN from this situation and find a much better FIT!

That's what this kids mom is saying.

There were 7 or 8 other D2 / NAIA college begging this kid to come to them.

But,the other colleges don't have the category that this kid is going to major in.

The kid says he wants to play college golf, but his degree  is what is going to pay his bills thru life.

[Jackal]

8 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

You wouldn't sign an NLI if you aren't on an athletic scholarship. Walk-on players don't receive financial aid (athletic) from the university, so there would be no benefit to signing an NLI for either party in that case.

 

The whole thing really sucks for this kid, but unfortunately there is nothing he can do shy of transferring to another school if he wants to play college golf. It seems pretty obvious based on what you're saying that the coach has no interest in this kid being on the team (regardless of what he may have told him months ago).  

Thanks for that info.

The local  courses,  managers, and pros think this coach is gonna be gone after this year.

He has a lot of players quit (college & golf)  after being around him for 2 years or less.

 

One of the local kids that left college & golf told this kid "That coach doesn't  want you without a golf scholarship. He was always telling us we HAD to do what he said, or he would pull our scholarship".

Sounds like the coach is a real weirdo.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Jackal

[NJBigFish22]

There is a way around this, he could go to 1 of the other schools and play, get his general studies done at 1 of the schools that are interested.  If he plays well and produce results he should be able to transfer easily.  What exactly does he want to study?  If he can’t get the coach to return his calls, he could reach out to the AD, but not being on an athletic scholarship, he may not get a response.

[dmecca2]

I played on a low level D1 school and we never finished better than last in our conference championship (our conference was tough though). I cannot even tell you how many kids would email or call our coach and ask to play golf, citing our finishes and scoring averages, saying they would immediately be on the starting lineup. Our coach had no money left to give, as our team was young, and he told these kids that they could try out, but he could not promise a roster spot. Over my 4 years on the team we had about 5 kids a year who would show up to these tryouts, thinking they DESERVED to be on the team, and SUCK. They all claimed to be the best from their club and I'm sure they got praise from their head pros, but when it came time to play with us, they could not even sniff sub 80, most of the time shooting in the 90's.

 

Every low level school sees this and I'm sure the coach is now skeptical of any new recruits without real, ranked tournament experience. If he wants to go to the school for academics first and then try out, tell him to give it a go. That's what I did and I ended up making the team and playing every single event from my second semester freshman year, through my senior year.

[Jackal]

13 minutes ago, NJBigFish22 said:

There is a way around this, he could go to 1 of the other schools and play, get his general studies done at 1 of the schools that are interested.  If he plays well and produce results he should be able to transfer easily.  What exactly does he want to study?  If he can’t get the coach to return his calls, he could reach out to the AD, but not being on an athletic scholarship, he may not get a response.

One of the counselors  mentioned that..

 

He is going into corporate finance  and his parents work at a large local corporation. 

The corporation has already agreed to hire him after his bachelor's degree, and pay for his masters degree  and let him work there while getting it.

 This kid has  a great personality,  and made a 4.25???? GPA all thru school, 33 on ACT, never had a B   always A's.

Graduated high school with 28???? college credit hours.

The college practices at a local private country club. 

This kid goes there as a guest, and hold his own with the college players. 

With some practice  and the launch monitors, etc.

This kid could probably be their top golfer.

The top players that the college recruits are usually  low on grades C average low ACT,  etc.

When they get to college  they can't  keep their grades up enough to play on the team.

Last year there was a tournament where the top 2 players  grades had dropped and they didn't get to play for a while.

 

 

[Jackal]

6 minutes ago, dmecca2 said:

I played on a low level D1 school and we never finished better than last in our conference championship (our conference was tough though). I cannot even tell you how many kids would email or call our coach and ask to play golf, citing our finishes and scoring averages, saying they would immediately be on the starting lineup. Our coach had no money left to give, as our team was young, and he told these kids that they could try out, but he could not promise a roster spot. Over my 4 years on the team we had about 5 kids a year who would show up to these tryouts, thinking they DESERVED to be on the team, and SUCK. They all claimed to be the best from their club and I'm sure they got praise from their head pros, but when it came time to play with us, they could not even sniff sub 80, most of the time shooting in the 90's.

 

Every low level school sees this and I'm sure the coach is now skeptical of any new recruits without real, ranked tournament experience. If he wants to go to the school for academics first and then try out, tell him to give it a go. That's what I did and I ended up making the team and playing every single event from my second semester freshman year, through my senior year.

Thanks for the confidence booster.

He'll be glad to see this..

There was a local young man that played fantastic golf.

We all thought he would go big.

No one ever thought that he only played golf and never did homework. 

He just barely passed.

At graduation time, he went in and talked to the high school counselors.

The counselors said his ACT was so low that he couldn't even take welding classes at a college, he had to go full trade school. 

[NJBigFish22]

9 minutes ago, Jackal said:

One of the counselors  mentioned that..

 

He is going into corporate finance  and his parents work at a large local corporation. 

The corporation has already agreed to hire him after his bachelor's degree, and pay for his masters degree  and let him work there while getting it.

 This kid has  a great personality,  and made a 4.25???? GPA all thru school, 33 on ACT, never had a B   always A's.

Graduated high school with 28???? college credit hours.

The college practices at a local private country club. 

This kid goes there as a guest, and hold his own with the college players. 

With some practice  and the launch monitors, etc.

This kid could probably be their top golfer.

The top players that the college recruits are usually  low on grades C average low ACT,  etc.

When they get to college  they can't  keep their grades up enough to play on the team.

Last year there was a tournament where the top 2 players  grades had dropped and they didn't get to play for a while.

 

 

If this was my son, I would tell him to go to one of the schools that want him.  A finance degree isn’t that exotic, and since he already has a job lined up post grad, he should talk to the company and ask the following question.  “I am looking at these schools cause I want to play golf.  They don’t have an actual finance program what should I study?”  My guess is they will say accounting or economics, then have him gets his masters in finance.  Realistically an accounting degree would probably be a step up over any finance program.

[heavy_hitter]

I have had several conversations with Coaches and HS AD's recently as my kid is in the process of recruitment.

 

A lot of people thought that recruiting because of Covid would be over by 2023.  I will tell you that it is not.  Talking to a couple of people this year, 2023 might actually be in a worse situation than 2022 kids.  Why?  The transfer Portal and Covid Years.  Not only are you fighting for spots with kids in your own class, a kid is also fighting kids with extra Covid Years.  Coaches at the top level DI or DII are using the transfer portal to bring in an already polished player.  That player has already gone through the course load of academics and time demands of golf.  Win-Win for the colleges.

 

Football coach yesterday was telling me a conversation with one of his players.  Kids graduating the next 2 years will be battling a kid that has already been playing SEC football for 2 years and STILL have 4 YEARS of eligibility left.  Those kids have had SEC weightlifting, SEC Training Tables, SEC Academics, and have faced SEC Talent every day at practice.  This is what recruits will still be battling for another 2 years.

[mrshinsa]

I've seen firsthand of verbal offers being rescinded. 

One from a coach who gave a verbal offer and then left hist post, leaving the player hang out to dry.  

 

General consensus amongst the players parents is that verbals don't mean anything and has ZERO face value.

 

 

Same goes for job offers.

[Jackal]

18 minutes ago, NJBigFish22 said:

If this was my son, I would tell him to go to one of the schools that want him.  A finance degree isn’t that exotic, and since he already has a job lined up post grad, he should talk to the company and ask the following question.  “I am looking at these schools cause I want to play golf.  They don’t have an actual finance program what should I study?”  My guess is they will say accounting or economics, then have him gets his masters in finance.  Realistically an accounting degree would probably be a step up over any finance program.

This kid also got a governors platinum  scholarship.

They will give him leftover money after all expenses.

The college counselors said that  would amount to over $4,000 in his pocket  per semester.

If he goes to one of the other colleges, he'll  have to get a part time job.

He's pretty much here to stay golf or not. 

I sent this link to his parents.

His dad used to be a member on here.

Maybe he'll  get on  here with more details than I know.

Everyone pretty much agrees that the coach is a pathological liar.

 He said the NCAA won't  let him practice with the players too much, and that's  why they go to the course by themselves all the time.

[Jackal]

13 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

I have had several conversations with Coaches and HS AD's recently as my kid is in the process of recruitment.

 

A lot of people thought that recruiting because of Covid would be over by 2023.  I will tell you that it is not.  Talking to a couple of people this year, 2023 might actually be in a worse situation than 2022 kids.  Why?  The transfer Portal and Covid Years.  Not only are you fighting for spots with kids in your own class, a kid is also fighting kids with extra Covid Years.  Coaches at the top level DI or DII are using the transfer portal to bring in an already polished player.  That player has already gone through the course load of academics and time demands of golf.  Win-Win for the colleges.

 

Football coach yesterday was telling me a conversation with one of his players.  Kids graduating the next 2 years will be battling a kid that has already been playing SEC football for 2 years and STILL have 4 YEARS of eligibility left.  Those kids have had SEC weightlifting, SEC Training Tables, SEC Academics, and have faced SEC Talent every day at practice.  This is what recruits will still be battling for another 2 years.

Thanks for that info.

That helps.

I wondered why they said his roster is full,  but he keeps recruiting.

Also, some of his players  are transferring  out this year, but he's  scared to ask any of them if they are transferring.

Some of the top players he has recruited have been kicked out of other colleges because of disciplinary problems.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Jackal

[heavy_hitter]

4 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

I've seen firsthand of verbal offers being rescinded. 

One from a coach who gave a verbal offer and then left hist post, leaving the player hang out to dry.  

 

General consensus amongst the players parents is that verbals don't mean anything and has ZERO face value.

 

 

Same goes for job offers.

A Verbal commitment is only good for a coach because he can still go big game hunting for a better player.  It is a non binding agreement.  After a kid verbals, they still need to stay in contact with other programs in case something happens.  Coaches don't have to honor that verbal.  It doesn't happen a lot, but it happens enough to know that it happens.

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, Jackal said:

Thanks for that info.

That helps.

I wondered why they said his roster is full,  but he keeps recruiting.

Also, some of his players  are transferring  out this year, but he's  scared to ask any of them if they are transferring.

Some of the top players he has recruited have been kicked out of other colleges because of disciplinary problems.

 

The coach is not recruiting 2022's this summer.  He is recruiting 2026-2023.

[NJBigFish22]

2 minutes ago, Jackal said:

This kid also got a governors platinum  scholarship.

They will give him leftover money after all expenses.

The college counselors said that  would amount to over $4,000 in his pocket  per semester.

If he goes to one of the other colleges, he'll  have to get a part time job.

He's pretty much here to stay golf or not. 

I sent this link to his parents.

His dad used to be a member on here.

Maybe he'll  get on  here with more details than I know.

Everyone pretty much agrees that the coach is a pathological liar.

 He said the NCAA won't  let him practice with the players too much, and that's  why they go to the course by themselves all the time.

With his grades, and if the other schools want him, they will find a way to get him the money, either through athletics or grants.  I doubt he would need to get a part time job.  

 

My son doesn’t play golf, but is going through the process because of lacrosse, and there isn’t a lot of scholarship money, but if you have the grades, they will find money.  Example, the recruiting coordinator for Princeton spoke to us.  He said that they may give all their top recruits $X, but with their grades will get way more.  I forget the exact numbers, but he said if tuition was $66k, with sports and around a 4.0, those students usually end up with a tuition bill of around $17K, and was the same with most athletes.

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, NJBigFish22 said:

With his grades, and if the other schools want him, they will find a way to get him the money, either through athletics or grants.  I doubt he would need to get a part time job.  

 

My son doesn’t play golf, but is going through the process because of lacrosse, and there isn’t a lot of scholarship money, but if you have the grades, they will find money.  Example, the recruiting coordinator for Princeton spoke to us.  He said that they may give all their top recruits $X, but with their grades will get way more.  I forget the exact numbers, but he said if tuition was $66k, with sports and around a 4.0, those students usually end up with a tuition bill of around $17K, and was the same with most athletes.

This^^^^

 

My Kid can get more money from a DIII that offers no athletic scholarship than a DII or DI.

[NJBigFish22]

1 minute ago, heavy_hitter said:

This^^^^

 

My Kid can get more money from a DIII that offers no athletic scholarship than a DII or DI.

Plus since it is usually in terms of grants and academics, it is less likely to be rescinded, since athletic scholarships need to be renewed by coach each year.

[dmecca2]

21 minutes ago, Jackal said:

This kid also got a governors platinum  scholarship.

They will give him leftover money after all expenses.

The college counselors said that  would amount to over $4,000 in his pocket  per semester.

If he goes to one of the other colleges, he'll  have to get a part time job.

He's pretty much here to stay golf or not. 

I sent this link to his parents.

His dad used to be a member on here.

Maybe he'll  get on  here with more details than I know.

Everyone pretty much agrees that the coach is a pathological liar.

 He said the NCAA won't  let him practice with the players too much, and that's  why they go to the course by themselves all the time.

For what it's worth, I've seen a lot of kids like this that were going to my school no matter what and wanted to play golf. Two of those kids made the team for a year, did not play well and were cut the next year. One of those kids did not make the team his first year, but did his second (he was able to play another year during his grad school).

 

All of those kids enjoyed their time at the school, regardless of whether or not they played golf.

 

Edit: I also saw multiple kids around campus who did not make the team at all. They also enjoyed themselves. There's a lot to do at college. If there is no golf, school will keep him busy

Edited June 30, 2022 by dmecca2

[tatertot]

He's already got a full ride PLUS to the school of his choice ...

He's good enough to be their #1 golfer as a walk on freshman ...

He has offers for a scholarship to several other schools ...

But he doesn't know what to do ...

 

Are you sure you're getting the full story?

[Jackal]

This college won't  let them stack scholarships.

They can use 2 or 3.

Also, his parents company have already set up the internship program.

 

13 minutes ago, NJBigFish22 said:

With his grades, and if the other schools want him, they will find a way to get him the money, either through athletics or grants.  I doubt he would need to get a part time job.  

 

My son doesn’t play golf, but is going through the process because of lacrosse, and there isn’t a lot of scholarship money, but if you have the grades, they will find money.  Example, the recruiting coordinator for Princeton spoke to us.  He said that they may give all their top recruits $X, but with their grades will get way more.  I forget the exact numbers, but he said if tuition was $66k, with sports and around a 4.0, those students usually end up with a tuition bill of around $17K, and was the same with most athletes.

 

[Jackal]

2 minutes ago, tatertot said:

He's already got a full ride PLUS to the school of his choice ...

He's good enough to be their #1 golfer as a walk on freshman ...

He has offers for a scholarship to several other schools ...

But he doesn't know what to do ...

 

Are you sure you're getting the full story?

Yeah. Everybody around hates that coach.

One of the top golf courses said "If that coach had a heart attack in front of the clubhouse, we wouldn't  call an ambulance ".

 

He has screwed  everyone  over.

[Jackal]

Thanks  for all the info.

The parents have this link to read everything.

No one can give a solid answer to the puzzle.

Most people ( myself, too) wondered what the whole story was. Then, when you get all the answers  on both sides the one remains ' Why won't  the coach let him on the team?'

If the coach  would just tell him, the kid would stop calling, and never bother him again.

Why string the kid along, and try to build up hope, and then not even answer messages, calls, and texts?

 

Heavy Hitter may have answered  it with the Covid extensions.

So far nothing else makes sense.

 

There are a couple  of retired baseball/ basketball coaches from the college that are members of the country club, and they can't figured out why he won't take that kid.