Question about college coach recruiting

[Abh159]

4 minutes ago, Jackal said:

Thanks  for all the info.

The parents have this link to read everything.

No one can give a solid answer to the puzzle.

Most people ( myself, too) wondered what the whole story was. Then, when you get all the answers  on both sides the one remains ' Why won't  the coach let him on the team?'

If the coach  would just tell him, the kid would stop calling, and never bother him again.

Why string the kid along, and try to build up hope, and then not even answer messages, calls, and texts?

 

Heavy Hitter may have answered  it with the Covid extensions.

So far nothing else makes sense.

 

There are a couple  of retired baseball/ basketball coaches from the college that are members of the country club, and they can't figured out why he won't take that kid.

 

 

Does the why really matter? I guess if you want some sort of closure then it does, but if your story is correct all signs point towards the coach not wanting this kid.

 

At this point it's probably best if everyone just moves on. Even if the kid somehow manages to get on the team it doesn't sound like it's going to be an enjoyable experience as long as this specific coach is there.

[Jackal]

14 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Does the why really matter? I guess if you want some sort of closure then it does, but if your story is correct all signs point towards the coach not wanting this kid.

 

At this point it's probably best if everyone just moves on. Even if the kid somehow manages to get on the team it doesn't sound like it's going to be an enjoyable experience as long as this specific coach is there.

That's  my thoughts exactly. 

They are just wondering if there is a logical explanation.

If the coach was to tell them "We only  want blonde haired  guys, that are 5 ft 10." 

That would be ok , and he would never wonder.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Jackal

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

Seems you are stuck in the small little details.  My son's coach is cutting two walk ons because he needs the extra shirts.  Explain that to his parents or the kids.

 

Budgets are tight.  My son gets 3X more academic money than golf.  Plus other scholarships.

 

Crazy people like @leezer99will say that's not a full ride but we aren't paying. 😉

 

If other colleges are begging him then go.  Do 1 or 2 years there play college golf see if its a good fit and then enter the transfer portal.

 

You will be surprise how many low handicaps "OMG this local kid" can't complete at the college level.

 

Every tournament you are basically completing against other studs from their high schools from different years.

[Jackal]

47 minutes ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Seems you are stuck in the small little details.  My son's coach is cutting two walk ons because he needs the extra shirts.  Explain that to his parents or the kids.

 

Budgets are tight.  My son gets 3X more academic money than golf.  Plus other scholarships.

 

Crazy people like @leezer99will say that's not a full ride but we aren't paying. 😉

 

If other colleges are begging him then go.  Do 1 or 2 years there play college golf see if its a good fit and then enter the transfer portal.

 

You will be surprise how many low handicaps "OMG this local kid" can't complete at the college level.

 

Every tournament you are basically completing against other studs from their high schools from different years.

That's  what we were wondering.

Even his high school coach said if you look athe past scoring tournaments, the scores jump around.

1st thru 5th bags are always in that order.

With college training this kid might be a solid 2nd or 3rd bag.

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Seems you are stuck in the small little details.  My son's coach is cutting two walk ons because he needs the extra shirts.  Explain that to his parents or the kids.

 

Budgets are tight.  My son gets 3X more academic money than golf.  Plus other scholarships.

 

Crazy people like @leezer99will say that's not a full ride but we aren't paying. 😉

 

If other colleges are begging him then go.  Do 1 or 2 years there play college golf see if its a good fit and then enter the transfer portal.

 

You will be surprise how many low handicaps "OMG this local kid" can't complete at the college level.

 

Every tournament you are basically completing against other studs from their high schools from different years.

Being brought into a topic you haven’t even commented on. 
 

[ChipNRun]

On 6/30/2022 at 1:29 PM, Abh159 said:

The whole thing really sucks for this kid, but unfortunately there is nothing he can do shy of transferring to another school if he wants to play college golf.   

 

This college may have a solid finance program, but the golf program - if accurately described - is a real soap opera.

 

If the kid wants to play college golf, he needs to find another university. Otherwise, he needs to cash in on the current scholarships and forego college golf. 

 

On 6/30/2022 at 2:01 PM, Jackal said:

One of the counselors  mentioned that..

 

He is going into corporate finance  and his parents work at a large local corporation. 

The corporation has already agreed to hire him after his bachelor's degree, and pay for his masters degree  and let him work there while getting it. ...

 

The top players that the college recruits are usually  low on grades C average low ACT,  etc.

When they get to college  they can't  keep their grades up enough to play on the team.

 

I'm a retired business professor who has seen multiple college golf programs. For golfers, making the team is just step 1. Poor time management/bad grades crashes about as many golfers as poor play does.

 

In junior college, I had the odd experience of being both a wrestler and a golfer. Wrestling practice lasted 1.5-2 hours, while golf practice lasted 4-5 hours, plus travel time to and from the course. This travel would be magnified in a 4-year school.

 

So, I'm a bit baffled that this college recruits C-average/low ACT high school students. The golfers I taught at various schools tended to be very good students.

[Jackal]

24 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

 

This college may have a solid finance program, but the golf program - if accurately described - is a real soap opera.

 

If the kid wants to play college golf, he needs to find another university. Otherwise, he needs to cash in on the current scholarships and forego college golf. 

 

 

I'm a retired business professor who has seen multiple college golf programs. For golfers, making the team is just step 1. Poor time management/bad grades crashes about as many golfers as poor play does.

 

In junior college, I had the odd experience of being both a wrestler and a golfer. Wrestling practice lasted 1.5-2 hours, while golf practice lasted 4-5 hours, plus travel time to and from the course. This travel would be magnified in a 4-year school.

 

So, I'm a bit baffled that this college recruits C-average/low ACT high school students. The golfers I taught at various schools tended to be very good students.

This coach doesn't care/ is stupid from what everyone says.

He never goes to practice, and let's  the players  do what they want. 

  It appears that he wants 'control ' over his players.

Holding and threatening  their scholarship.

He has lied to some players that are about  75 miles from here.

Telling them 'full ride'  and then when they see they only got 1/3 scholarship, they don't  go there.

He had recruited 3 or 4 players last year, that didn't  make it due to disciplinary problems at other colleges.

 

Most of the locals figure this is the coaches last year.

 

Another problem is that this college won't allow 'stacking' scholarships. 

There are 2 or 3 they can combine, but that's  it.

Most of the players don't  make it to all the practices  because they have to work part time jobs.

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Jackal

[golfortennis]

On 6/30/2022 at 3:55 PM, NJBigFish22 said:

Plus since it is usually in terms of grants and academics, it is less likely to be rescinded, since athletic scholarships need to be renewed by coach each year.

 

So I am just going by what I saw in headlines, so I'm sure there is a lot more to it.  I recall some conferences saying they would guarantee the scholarship for four years(unless grades or misconduct got you booted).  Was that just a Power 5 thing?  Are there so many loopholes you can drive a Mack Truck through through it?  

 

I wasn't sure if that was such a thing any more.  Although I can't believe my cynicism hasn't extended to there....

[Abh159]

14 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

So I am just going by what I saw in headlines, so I'm sure there is a lot more to it.  I recall some conferences saying they would guarantee the scholarship for four years(unless grades or misconduct got you booted).  Was that just a Power 5 thing?  Are there so many loopholes you can drive a Mack Truck through through it?  

 

I wasn't sure if that was such a thing any more.  Although I can't believe my cynicism hasn't extended to there....

 

The NCAA does allow multiyear scholarships, but that is definitely not the norm. You typically only see those in Power 5 football programs and even then it's rare.

 

The overwhelming majority of athletic scholarships are renewed (or not renewed) annually.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Abh159

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

The NCAA does allow multiyear scholarships, but that is definitely not the norm. You typically only see those in Power 5 football programs and even then it's rare.

 

The overwhelming majority of athletic scholarships are renewed (or not renewed) annually.

 

 

 

Ok so just a lot of window dressing.  They sure made it seem like all athletes got the guarantee, but I am familiar with coaches running kids off because a better option showed up.

[Abh159]

2 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Ok so just a lot of window dressing.  They sure made it seem like all athletes got the guarantee, but I am familiar with coaches running kids off because a better option showed up.

 

I think this gets overblown a little bit. I'm not saying it never happens, but I don't think it happens with the frequency some people make it out to.

 

I played for 4 years in college, I have a ton of friends who played for 4 years in college, and I know of people who have kids that are playing in college now. I've only heard of two instances in my life where someone's scholarship was revoked. One was due to grades making him ineligible to compete and the other was for off the field disciplinary issues.

[golfortennis]

20 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

I think this gets overblown a little bit. I'm not saying it never happens, but I don't think it happens with the frequency some people make it out to.

 

I played for 4 years in college, I have a ton of friends who played for 4 years in college, and I know of people who have kids that are playing in college now. I've only heard of two instances in my life where someone's scholarship was revoked. One was due to grades making him ineligible to compete and the other was for off the field disciplinary issues.

 

A girl from my golf club went to a DIII school, was #2 player during soph year.  Broke her ankle, and missed a few tournaments.  Coach looking to make a resume made it clear that if she was going to be damaged goods, she was better off not on her team.  She was on a D1 team within a couple weeks where she finished out her career.  

 

I know of one girl who played soccer who was told her concussion issues needed to be cleared up or her scholarship wouldn't be renewed, and I know of another athlete(I forget the sport) who was told that if she took a summer internship with a big firm in the field she wished to pursue, she was off the team.

 

It may not happen as frequently as people make it out to happen, but I think it happens more than you think as well.  The NCAA is a professional sports organization in every way except where the athlete is concerned.  Whether that is good or bad, it's not right that they hold themselves out as one thing while the reality is quite another.

[Jackal]

Whether they are able to,  or not, just  knowing that the coach was looking for a reason to cut them from the team would be a lot of pressure.

[heavy_hitter]

50 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

and I know of another athlete(I forget the sport) who was told that if she took a summer internship with a big firm in the field she wished to pursue, she was off the team.

 

 

I personally know that kid..

[Abh159]

2 hours ago, golfortennis said:

It may not happen as frequently as people make it out to happen, but I think it happens more than you think as well.  

 

I think we only tend to hear about the <1% of time it happens and not the >99% of time it doesn't.

 

A normal collegiate athletic experience isn't an exciting story to tell whereas when something crazy happens people cannot wait to spread that news to anyone who will listen.

[golfortennis]

17 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

I think we only tend to hear about the <1% of time it happens and not the >99% of time it doesn't.

 

A normal collegiate athletic experience isn't an exciting story to tell whereas when something crazy happens people cannot wait to spread that news to anyone who will listen.

 

Again, though, I think a lot of it stems from the fact coaches put themselves out there as "taking care of their kids", "preparing them for their adult lives" and all those other pabulum filled sayings.  But when it comes right down to it, a far too large a number have shown themselves to be nothing more than self-promoters who aren't afraid to step on anyone to further their own lives/careers/agendas.  

 

How many football and basketball coaches tell a player they will be there the whole four years, but then ditch immediately?  Or the football coach who the day after signing day takes an NFL job leaving the star recruit wondering what just happened?  Meanwhile, these same coaches still don't like the idea of the kids being able to transfer anywhere near as freely as coaches can take other jobs.  How many stories like Jarred Uthoff(sp?) have we not heard(kid who signed with Wisconsin, got homesick, wanted to go home to Iowa, Bo Ryan was willing to release him to any school other than Iowa...took a big uproar for him to finally sign off.)  

 

And this doesn't touch the number of "student-athletes" who have had to change their academic paths because the necessary courses to advance towards a specific degree conflicted with practice, and we just can't have that now, can we?  Our student athletes' education and future are first and foremost in our daily lives...... as long as it doesn't disrupt the team schedule.  

 

It's just as bad as when the junior hockey league in Canada decided to refer to them as "student athletes" when they were sued to be paid a wage.  Somehow we were supposed to believe that a 16 year old kid from one city could be drafted to a team 400 miles from home, traded to another team another 400 further away from home, have no say in any of it, but it's not a job.

 

I will say they do investigate fully when there is a scandal.  They make sure they can circle the wagons, protect the administrators and coaches, and if a few students get hung out to dry, well, to quote Glenn Frey, "I'm sorry it went down like this, but someone had to lose, it's the nature of the business."  

 

It happens far too often in an organization that claims to be about the students, rather than the suits and money spigots they actually care about.  I'm glad your experience was a good one, and it's not to say it's never good, but given how much trust and power these coaches have over these students, it really can't be allowed to happen at all.  And parents need to have their eyes opened.  Like professional sports, many coaches are more interested in those who help them win and pad their resume.  Unlike professional sports, the compensation is nowhere near what it should be.

[leezer99]

Me reading @golfortennis post.

[golfortennis]

3 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Me reading @golfortennis post.

 

I seek to both entertain and expand horizons.  Sadly for the rest of you, my weekly show was shut down.  Something about not being able to handle the crowds.  

[heavy_hitter]

19 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Again, though, I think a lot of it stems from the fact coaches put themselves out there as "taking care of their kids", "preparing them for their adult lives" and all those other pabulum filled sayings.  But when it comes right down to it, a far too large a number have shown themselves to be nothing more than self-promoters who aren't afraid to step on anyone to further their own lives/careers/agendas.  

 

How many football and basketball coaches tell a player they will be there the whole four years, but then ditch immediately?  Or the football coach who the day after signing day takes an NFL job leaving the star recruit wondering what just happened?  Meanwhile, these same coaches still don't like the idea of the kids being able to transfer anywhere near as freely as coaches can take other jobs.  How many stories like Jarred Uthoff(sp?) have we not heard(kid who signed with Wisconsin, got homesick, wanted to go home to Iowa, Bo Ryan was willing to release him to any school other than Iowa...took a big uproar for him to finally sign off.)  

 

And this doesn't touch the number of "student-athletes" who have had to change their academic paths because the necessary courses to advance towards a specific degree conflicted with practice, and we just can't have that now, can we?  Our student athletes' education and future are first and foremost in our daily lives...... as long as it doesn't disrupt the team schedule.  

 

It's just as bad as when the junior hockey league in Canada decided to refer to them as "student athletes" when they were sued to be paid a wage.  Somehow we were supposed to believe that a 16 year old kid from one city could be drafted to a team 400 miles from home, traded to another team another 400 further away from home, have no say in any of it, but it's not a job.

 

I will say they do investigate fully when there is a scandal.  They make sure they can circle the wagons, protect the administrators and coaches, and if a few students get hung out to dry, well, to quote Glenn Frey, "I'm sorry it went down like this, but someone had to lose, it's the nature of the business."  

 

It happens far too often in an organization that claims to be about the students, rather than the suits and money spigots they actually care about.  I'm glad your experience was a good one, and it's not to say it's never good, but given how much trust and power these coaches have over these students, it really can't be allowed to happen at all.  And parents need to have their eyes opened.  Like professional sports, many coaches are more interested in those who help them win and pad their resume.  Unlike professional sports, the compensation is nowhere near what it should be.

This is good stuff.  College Athletic Directors at D1 schools are there for one thing and only one thing, to "Protect the Image of the Institution."  Sadly, they will step on any student athlete that gets in the way of hiding a coach's wrong doing.  A student athlete at a D1 school is no longer the case.  It is athlete then student.  The Coach, University, and Program Image is the most important thing.

[chrissdc]

On 7/12/2022 at 6:49 AM, heavy_hitter said:

This is good stuff.  College Athletic Directors at D1 schools are there for one thing and only one thing, to "Protect the Image of the Institution."  Sadly, they will step on any student athlete that gets in the way of hiding a coach's wrong doing.  A student athlete at a D1 school is no longer the case.  It is athlete then student.  The Coach, University, and Program Image is the most important thing.

Right on HH

Some of the behavior of these college coaches is unbelievable. Both on and off the course.

For months, I believed it was my kid overreacting, but I soon found during my kid’s first year in school when I visited an event that my kid wasn’t BSing me.

The coach was an a****** to my spouse and me. And even though my kid is an adult(dopey, but still an adult) it is difficult for me to not become involved.

My kid is far from perfect and has made plenty of mistakes, but my kid generally knows how to be nice, respectful, supportive and courteous. But many of these coaches do not have the skills required to manage,coach, mentor, young adults.

I get this from message from other kids and their parents when we usually get together during school breaks, as well as other stories my kids opponents talk about during  event rounds.

 

This is also a reminder for kids to remember that during a visit, the recruits should speak to many players on the team, don’t just speak with the chaperone, speak to all of the players, especially the 3rd and 4th year players to get an accurate vibe of the coach and program.

 

 

[RmoorePE]

I own a couple small businesses and just sold another. I have held one thought in my mind for my entire career. "Every problem with the team/company begins and ends with management." Leadership is a rare trait/skill to have or find. This coach clearly is not a leader and has very poor management skills. This seems common among small school and beginner coaches, many can go through the motions, but have no idea how to organize their own time, communicate and motivate. It sounds like the coach doesn't want to rule out the kid, but does not have the ability to communicate his exact thoughts in any fashion. Another thing I have heard and believe is that procrastination is fear based. This coach is likely putting this kid off due to the fact that he is scared he will look bad, having to go back on his earlier word. Sounds like this player is in a good position moving ahead. My daughter's college has an intramural team that travels around a few states to play other schools and it is pretty competitive and fun. This could be a way for him to play a lot more golf and can still enter amateur events as well.

 

Personally, college sports and even college in general are losing their mystique in my eyes. Loyalty has gone out the window both coaches, players and now even fans are starting to lose heart. I mean USC and UCLA are leaving the Pac 12!

 

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, RmoorePE said:

Personally, college sports and even college in general are losing their mystique in my eyes. Loyalty has gone out the window both coaches, players and now even fans are starting to lose heart. I mean USC and UCLA are leaving the Pac 12!

 

 

Well Gavin was a little upset about the UCLA move but he's got no say in it so I'm not sure what his deal is.  UCLA has been losing money for years now and they needed to do something to recoup that loss.  The TV deals with an increased east coast viewership might help.

 

As for losing its mystique, I can't agree more.

[MckaylaNeal]

The behavior of this trainer is not professional, and it seems to me that it would be fair to give this child a better place than what the deceitful trainer offers him. But perhaps we don't know something, and there is an objective reason why the coach behaves this way and does not take the child to the team. When I was at university, the only thing on my mind was how to earn a bachelor's degree. But I played golf simultaneously and did not observe such behavior among the players and the coach. Unfortunately, not all coaches understand how important it is to behave fairly and honestly because the coach instills moral qualities in his wards.

Edited July 27, 2022 by MckaylaNeal

[Scooby555]

This was lightly touched upon by the OP in a post but....WTF?  Golf in college might be a great experience to have but golf isn't his career.  He is there on an academic scholarship and son, scholarships are for scholars.  Free education, an internship, free graduate education and a job that will probably support him and a family???? and they are worried about a damn golf coach???

 

To hell with the golf and continue to set yourself up for the rest of your life.  The HOBBY of golf will still be there!

[tssgj65]

On 11/1/2022 at 7:31 AM, Scooby555 said:

This was lightly touched upon by the OP in a post but....WTF?  Golf in college might be a great experience to have but golf isn't his career.  He is there on an academic scholarship and son, scholarships are for scholars.  Free education, an internship, free graduate education and a job that will probably support him and a family???? and they are worried about a damn golf coach???

 

To hell with the golf and continue to set yourself up for the rest of your life.  The HOBBY of golf will still be there!

Unless the student athlete really loves the work and is a good time manager, it will be useless to play.  The 20 hours per week allowed by the NCAA (practice rounds and qualifying counted at 3 hrs) is like having a job.  It is a grind.  Coaches attempt to determine how much a kid loves the grind, as they will not be successful otherwise.  A student athlete cannot approach college golf as a "hobby" or something similiar to high school golf as there is no comparison.  Kids need to understand this.

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, tssgj65 said:

Unless the student athlete really loves the work and is a good time manager, it will be useless to play.  The 20 hours per week allowed by the NCAA (practice rounds and qualifying counted at 3 hrs) is like having a job.  It is a grind.  Coaches attempt to determine how much a kid loves the grind, as they will not be successful otherwise.  A student athlete cannot approach college golf as a "hobby" or something similiar to high school golf as there is no comparison.  Kids need to understand this.

 

Which is why the term student-athlete is a load of you know what.  If your scholarship depends on your performance at golf, it's a job. 

 

And don't be fooled into thinking they will only be spending 20 hours a week on golf....Swiss cheese is jealous of the number of holes those rules contain.  

[tssgj65]

5 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Which is why the term student-athlete is a load of you know what.  If your scholarship depends on your performance at golf, it's a job. 

 

And don't be fooled into thinking they will only be spending 20 hours a week on golf....Swiss cheese is jealous of the number of holes those rules contain.  

Not for everyone.  Better off understanding it up front.

[golfortennis]

32 minutes ago, tssgj65 said:

Not for everyone.  Better off understanding it up front.

 

As I get older, the more I don't believe sports should be tied to schools the way they are.  

[heavy_hitter]

18 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

As I get older, the more I don't believe sports should be tied to schools the way they are.  

I agree.  Especially High School Sports.

[Noles]

On 11/6/2022 at 10:54 AM, heavy_hitter said:

I agree.  Especially High School Sports.

Are you saying that high schools should not have sports?