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Female LIV events with same purses as men? ***Moderated***


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Although Norman said they approached the LPGA last year, does this aid in LIV golf acceptance on the mens side?

Just like with women's basketball outside of the US, it seems it would be difficult for those against LIV to argue against an opportunity that hasn't been available to women in the US.

Would some current LGPA sponsors drop out if there is a partnership between LPGA and LIV?

Looking at this years prizes, a player could finish last at every LIV event and make the money of a top 10 LPGA player. 

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LPGA players seem far more self-aware about good publicity and image than do their PGA counterparts.  They've also been in a long fight for corporate sponsorships and public perception that I have a hard time seeing them simply abandon.

 

Of course the money would be enticing, but I'm less sure the ladies would take the bait as willingly and eagerly as have some of the men.  Sure, a player could finish last at every LIV event and make the money of a top 10 LPGA player, but there's no reason to believe the Saudi interest and money is indefinite or even any more than short term, potentially blowing-up their league and history for a potential one night stand (all-be-it a lucrative one).

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58 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

The women are much more financially vulnerable than the men.  The same can be said for the LPGA and the LET vs the PGAT and DPWT.  The women's situation is also complicated further given two relatively strong Asian tours (KLPGA and JLPGA) who won't take kindly to their stars being raided.

 

I think LIV inclusion of women will pretty much destroy the other women's tours or subsume/subordinate them to irrelevancy.  Once destroyed, they will be hard if not impossible to resurrect. None of this is good for women's golf or golf in general.

Agree completely.  The only way the women would not bolt would be fear of Saudis growing tired of flushing cash and desired to make a profit.  I don’t see them paying the astronomical sign on fees to the women so would a year or two of high purses be worth destroying the current ladies tours?

It has been mentioned in numerous articles and interviews that the Saudi regime does not plan to fund LIV indefinitely.   If it needs to stand on its own and make a profit…or break even…how in the world are the high purses sustainable? Then those that bolted, men and women if they do a ladies tour, would potentially find themselves with no accessibility to majors….no extra income….and a mandated schedule.

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1 hour ago, ThinkingPlus said:

The women are much more financially vulnerable than the men.  The same can be said for the LPGA and the LET vs the PGAT and DPWT.  The women's situation is also complicated further given two relatively strong Asian tours (KLPGA and JLPGA) who won't take kindly to their stars being raided.

 

I think LIV inclusion of women will pretty much destroy the other women's tours or subsume/subordinate them to irrelevancy.  Once destroyed, they will be hard if not impossible to resurrect. None of this is good for women's golf or golf in general.

I agree.  The women earn substantially less than the men on their respective equivalent tours.   The prospect of earning the guaranteed money will be hard to ignore.  We've seen the stories of many struggling to make it on both the LPGA and LET tours and how much of a grind it is.  

 

Also I think alot of the women will want to start a family but many hold out because they want to be financially secure before they do that.  With the promise of the guaranteed money, they can play 4-5 years on LIV and then start a family after their contract is over.  

It will be very difficult to turn down this offer if it comes to fruition.  I hope they find a way to co-exist.  

 

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2 hours ago, OKMrazor said:

but there's no reason to believe the Saudi interest and money is indefinite or even any more than short term, potentially blowing-up their league and history for a potential one night stand (all-be-it a lucrative one).

The responsible way for LIV to do this would be to not destroy the LPGA, KLPGA or JLPGA. This will depend on the length of the financial commitment and plans of future growth.

 

Is the financial commitment 5, 10, 20 years? Does the commitment end once the PGA tour is destroyed? If I were the ladies,  I'd push for a minimum 10 year commitment. Also a 100 plus field Major held in the Asia-Pacific. And maybe LIV co-partners on the IC Crown.

 

All the women's leagues have weeks to work with so an 11 to 14 event LIV tour still allows for a player to come back and play 11 events ( I think this was the recent requirement for Chevron lifetime exemption ex. Laura Davies). 

 

I think KLPGA and JLPGA would be fine because of the convenience of travel to their events and because of the fan support they have. I could see the LPGA losing some top Korean and Japanese players. And if the LPGA wanted to be attractive to those players, Q-school would have to change for them.

 

 

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3 hours ago, OKMrazor said:

LPGA players seem far more self-aware about good publicity and image than do their PGA counterparts.  They've also been in a long fight for corporate sponsorships and public perception that I have a hard time seeing them simply abandon.

 

Of course the money would be enticing, but I'm less sure the ladies would take the bait as willingly and eagerly as have some of the men.  Sure, a player could finish last at every LIV event and make the money of a top 10 LPGA player, but there's no reason to believe the Saudi interest and money is indefinite or even any more than short term, potentially blowing-up their league and history for a potential one night stand (all-be-it a lucrative one).

Maybe, maybe not. Anna Nordqvist and Anne van Dam Are Golf Saudi ambassadors. https://www.golfsaudi.com/en-us/golf-saudi/news/new-ambassadors/
 

I would love to see mixed events and there would be a lot of cool things that could be done in that space. 

Edited by Fairways_and_Greens
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Slippery slope for players.   If bigger names bolt for quick cash albeit big and they expect corporate sponsors to keep increasing the purses and commitment to the other tours they are crazy.   This could be get rich for those players that leave and I think set the overall events way back.   Then if they don’t have the Saudi money after a period they will be back complaining that they need bigger Sponsorship.   

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6 hours ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

Maybe, maybe not. Anna Nordqvist and Anne van Dam Are Golf Saudi ambassadors. https://www.golfsaudi.com/en-us/golf-saudi/news/new-ambassadors/
 

I would love to see mixed events and there would be a lot of cool things that could be done in that space. 

I would LOVE to see some mixed events - particularly with stakes, not simply exhibitions.  Two distinct games played to the same end would be very interesting.  I doubt it will ever happen successfully, but call me a skeptic.

 

Interesting about Nordqvist and Van Dam.  It's been pretty easy on the men's side as I haven't particularly liked any player who's crossed over (always enjoyed and rooted for Phil, bar none, but also always realized he wouldn't hold up to scrutiny), but it would be tougher to see the women topple, for multiple reasons but certainly including the gender politics.  

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4 hours ago, OKMrazor said:

I would LOVE to see some mixed events - particularly with stakes, not simply exhibitions.  Two distinct games played to the same end would be very interesting.  I doubt it will ever happen successfully, but call me a skeptic.

 

Interesting about Nordqvist and Van Dam.  It's been pretty easy on the men's side as I haven't particularly liked any player who's crossed over (always enjoyed and rooted for Phil, bar none, but also always realized he wouldn't hold up to scrutiny), but it would be tougher to see the women topple, for multiple reasons but certainly including the gender politics.  

The Aussies figured out mixed events. 
https://www.skysports.com/golf/news/12176/12601342/australian-open-golf-mens-and-womens-events-to-be-held-together-on-same-courses-and-equal-purses

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16 hours ago, hunterdog said:

Interested to see how LPGA and LET could co-exist with the Saudis. Once the more famous women golfers go to the Saudis, what’s left to sponsor and televise? 

Semi-serous question - Who are the more famous women golfers they would go after?

 

The LPGA does not have much if any 'name recognition' these days in North America and Europe. No really big stars right now (Anika, Wie, etc).

 

If there was real money in  Women's golf (outside of Asia and in a particular Korea) you may see allot more talent enter the sport. I know a number of LPGA talent Level golfers, who spent some time on tour and found being 125 in the world pays (way) less than giving lessons. 

 

If the LPGA loses revenue sources, it would be a pretty tough go to keep it viable. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, ChronicSlicer said:

I'd really like to think the successful players who have amassed a decent bank account would stay with their current tour.

 

But, I could easily see many players who are struggling and questioning whether the have the game to compete at the highest level jump ship for the money.

 

If you think the money was attractive to the men, it will be crazy for women. The average LPGA annual winning is $140K. The last place LIV players gets $120K for one event. 

 

On the men's side this was about millionaires becoming bigger millionaires. On the ladies side it will be about not need to stay with a billet when on the road to make ends meet and being a millionaire. Then the LPGA does not really have the history or legacy that is keeping some of the men. 

 

I am not a fan of the LIV tour, but I have to think the LPGA will fold fast if LIV starts making big offers to the ladies. 

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9 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Semi-serous question - Who are the more famous women golfers they would go after?

 

The LPGA does not have much if any 'name recognition' these days in North America and Europe. No really big stars right now (Anika, Wie, etc).

 

If there was real money in  Women's golf (outside of Asia and in a particular Korea) you may see allot more talent enter the sport. I know a number of LPGA talent Level golfers, who spent some time on tour and found being 125 in the world pays (way) less than giving lessons. 

 

If the LPGA loses revenue sources, it would be a pretty tough go to keep it viable. 

 

 

I’m not sure that’s the point. If this is a sports washing move, then paying the women the same, and having mixed events is a great way to do it. Regardless of the names. 
 

 

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7 hours ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

I’m not sure that’s the point. If this is a sports washing move, then paying the women the same, and having mixed events is a great way to do it. Regardless of the names. 
 

 

Agreed, its probably more effective than having the mens tournaments to a degree. When criticism of womens rights in saudi come up, "Oh we are paying the ladies more, the same as the men in the LIV Series. The US Open doesnt pay them the same, we dont think thats fair for world class athletes." Moves the conversation away very quickly. Its whataboutism 101, dilutes and deflects criticism.

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I think there could be a way to co-exist. There are empty weeks on the calendar and a few events that have struggled to keep a consistent sponsor like Portland, Phoenix, etc. In the past there have been rumors that the LPGA used JTBC to fill in sponsor needs.
 

For every KPMG, Amundi, CME ProMedica, AIG, DOW and Walmart, there are smaller events that really struggle with sponsorships.

 

LIV could come in and fill those gaps and with the tour’s global nature, it’s not hard to picture it.

 

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On 7/6/2022 at 8:18 AM, North Texas said:

 

You are assuming that the LIV cares anything about co-existing. IMHO, they don't. 


No one knows, they claim that is what they wanted with the PGA Tour and were shut out. All I am saying is that historically and more recently the LPGA bends more easily to sponsors wishes. I am not sure if LIV showed up and said we want to have 8 events annually, would you give us legitimacy by adding us to your schedule, the LPGA would decline.

 

I think it could be more of an issue of upsetting current sponsors particularly CME, Amundi, AIG, Chevron and KPMG whose historic efforts would be dwarfed 3-4X over in a matter if minutes. 

 

Then again, the LPGA has a history of

not consulting sponsors before making a move which is why Hana Bank withdrew the Hana Bank Championship from the LPGA and tried to create a rival mini-tour of sorts.

 

You also have to take into account the existing involvement Aramco has with the LET.

 

I just hope what ever happens they don’t use the same line of “I’m in it to grow the game of golf.” 
 

That’s what Abe Ancer said. He wanted to grow the game of golf in Mexico and this would allow him to do it. Of course he also always talks about how he is an entrepreneur by

only promoting brands he is financially invested in or owns yet he signed up to have the Saudi PIF as his boss.

 

If growing the game is really what he wanted he would use his fee to build a few public courses in the country  or make that a condition of joining. Unless you count resort courses, public courses are practically non-existent.

 

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14 hours ago, Zitlow said:

If this is about equal pay for men and women when are they going to fix the wage disparity between the players in the NBA and the WNBA? 

 

 

Sometimes two things that appear to be the same are not.

 

https://www.wsn.com/nba/nba-vs-wnba/

 

Based on what I could find the PGA revenue is approximately 10 times that of the LPGA.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Sometimes two things that appear to be the same are not.

 

https://www.wsn.com/nba/nba-vs-wnba/

 

Based on what I could find the PGA revenue is approximately 10 times that of the LPGA.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I understand that. I was being sarcastic, the NBA revenue is probably a gazillion times more that the WNBA revenue. The WNBA players union should hire Meghan Rapinoe. /s

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Given the existing sponsorships and money that the ladies game gets from the region, financially, it may be in their best interests to work with them rather than take the PGA/DP Tour stance. That would at least give some sort of justified payday for the women, as I think it's downright criminal how disregarded the ladies tours are treated within the golfing world.

 

But given the discussions and vitriol around the financing, it would be unfair to put them in that position as to having to choose financial stability/security vs. the morality aspect when it shouldn't even come to that.

 

Ideally - since the ladies game is more similar to the way 85% of the golfing population play, if golf really wants to take a moral stance, then it would promote and pay way more than it does today. Sell that as the golfing game as 'gentlemens' game went out the window a long long time ago. Unfortunately the 'gentlemen's' ego wouldn't be able to handle it...

 

 

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