Beyond Breaking 80

[ChaosTheory]

What comes after:

No 3 putts

No punishing drives

No doubles

No bogies on par 5s

Play for the back edge

Just get it on the green/ No 2 chips

 

I'd like to break 78 once in a while.  I believe in the above list but it only takes me so far.  Basically low 80s with the occasional 79 or 78.  My PB is a couple of 72s but those were just freakish rounds.

 

 I don’t want this to be about me.  What comes next after the low(est) hanging fruit?  Where do the next two strokes get dropped?

 

 

[Three_Jack]

Probably no 3-putts, 8 or more GIRs and no doubles.

[SHAFUA]

Depends on the type of player you are 

 

Birdies make the mid 70 rounds a hell of a lot easier 

 

I was looking at some competition statistics between me (8.6) and a fella who is off 4 ... we hit similar distance drives and clubs into the greens but he's had 29 birdies this year where as i've had 10

Edited July 6, 2022 by SHAFUA

[MelloYello]

I'm playing off a 1-index right now and when I play my home course I average 11 greens (~60%) and a scoring average of something like 76. 

 

 

Here are some of the things I focus on:

 

#1 - GIR

 

This is the biggest factor in your overall score on a long-term basis. Don't worry so much about fairway%. I hit about 60% GIR at my home course despite "only" hitting 50% fairways. As long as you keep it in play off the tee, your probably fine. 

#2 - Birdie% on Par-5's 

 

Since you're essentially asking how to make your best rounds better, it'll involve turning some pars into birdies. The best way to increase birdie% is to start pushing yourself to be more aggressive on Par-5 holes. You need to learn to attack in 2 whenever possible so you can use your good short game to make birdie. This often requires developing better long-iron and fairway-metal play. 

 

#3 - Par% on Par-3's 

 

Par-3 holes are strange. They often generate our highest scoring average because we have to hit the longest clubs into these greens. For this reason, try to improve your GIR% on these holes so you can improve the rate at which you walk off with par. 

 

#4 - Up & Down %

 

Aim to get up and down no less than 50% of the time. This will probably come with developing some more precision in your chipping game. Half the greens you miss should leave you relatively easy up-&-downs. You've got to make these more automatic.  

 

[Krt22]

There is no easy path at this point, you need to start hitting the ball closer to the hole. The only area where you might be off is playing back edge of the green all the time. You might want to look into DECADE for picking proper targets, you might be able to eliminate a bogey or two with target selection 

[PracticeSwinger]

10 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

I'm playing off a 1-index right now and when I play my home course I average 11 greens (~60%) and a scoring average of something like 76. 

 

 

Here are some of the things I focus on:

 

#1 - GIR

 

This is the biggest factor in your overall score on a long-term basis. Don't worry so much about fairway%. I hit about 60% GIR at my home course despite "only" hitting 50% fairways. As long as you keep it in play off the tee, your probably fine. 

That is the biggest and easy factor to track... usually the 4 Par5s are 'given'... so there's basically 14 greens to be hit ranging from 100-200 yds... that can be missed because of : errant drives (any of those 10) and/or bad ball striking from the scoring zone... ball striking from 150-200 is the biggest differentiation from low caps to scratch

[golfwb]

sounds like your a good enough player to eliminate the play for the back edge. Most of the courses I play have danger long and easier up and downs from short.

[LeftDot]

When I was on the same journey, Course Management became a key factor for me beyond the bullet points in your OP.

 

If you are at the low 80s and high 70s, you've got the talent to leverage good CM skills. Knowing where to target, and which club makes it happen, makes scoring much easier. Would you rather hit your approach shot with a 7i over trouble at a protected pin, or with a 6i and full view of the green?

[getitdaily]

1. GIR

2. Course management 

 

GIR - you just need to get better with your irons. This means making small changes to your swing to reduce your swing faults.

 

Course management - what club off each tee? What line do you take? On approach shots, what are you looking to do? You can start by just trying to hit the center of the green if you have 8i or more. Be more aggressive with 9i or less. If you have a consistent shot shape then you can get a bit more aggressive by working the ball toward the hole from the center of the green when the pin is on the side that favors your shot shape.

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

I'm sort of in a similar struggle, although I'm still trying to consistently clean up the mistakes you've listed.  I see two areas of my own game that I know are going to need improvement long term for me to start breaking 80 consistently:

 

1. # of Putts.  Even if you 2 putt every hole, 36 feels like too many to consistently push below 80 (I still have days over 40, haha!).  That number should realistically be closer to 32 (could be the difference between an 82 and a 78 right there), and I really struggle to get my putts per round down into the low 30s.  Which leads me to point #2...

 

2.  Proximity to hole:  At a certain point, I know I'm going to need to hit it closer to the hole, more consistently.  I can push north of 50% GIR in a round, but not all GIRs are created equally, and when I hit a PW into a green that leaves me with a 40-50 foot putt, it's a grind to make par from that point.  Hitting it closer is going to make 2 putts more comfortable and 1 putts more possible.

 

Here's hoping we figure it out one day.

[Long_Left]

DECADE worked well for me, it's not cheap but it's worth it to put a year in and find your weaknesses. If you're good enough to be playing birdie/par/bogey golf on a consistent basis, picking better targets based on your dispersion pattern will lead to lower scores. I hit a hot pull pw (lefty) to a right tucked pin over a deep bunker for a tap in birdie on Sunday, missed my target by 20 feet.

[Robby_Hughey]

Keeping track of your strokes from 100 years and in is crucial. That's where 80% of shots come from. But FIR, GIR, Putts and proximity go a long way as well. Case in point - shot my best round of the year last Sunday bogey free 68. Don't get me wrong, great round. Was thrilled with it. But putting... woof. Breakdown below:

 

FIR - 11/14

GIR - 15/18

Putts - 31

 

The difference between in this example a 68 and say, and 64, was the matter of hitting it closer. Had a lot of looks for birdie, but was 20 feet away. That's a low conversion distance.

 

Summary - course management above all. Put yourself in a better position with scoring clubs.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Robby_Hughey

[larrybud]

Assuming the "no wasted strokes" (e.g. two chips on a hole, no 3-putts)

Even if your putting/short-game is mediocre and you never get up/down, hitting 9 girs and two putting everything gets you to an 81.

Up/down 33% of the time and you're down to a 78.

Toss 2 birdies out of the 9 girs and you're at 76.

 

Lower than that? Maybe your short game is hot for the day and you get up/down 5 of 9, now you're at 74.

 

Lower than that and you need to hit more girs. I would be tough to shoot level par hitting only 9 girs. I've done it, but it's a once a year kind of thing (shot 37 (+1) on league a month ago with 1 GIR, which I birdied... go figure).

Notice I didn't say HOW to hit more GIRS. That would take detailed analysis of your game. Do you not hit GIRS because of poor drives or poor approach shots, etc.

[PracticeSwinger]

1 hour ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

1. # of Putts.  Even if you 2 putt every hole, 36 feels like too many to consistently push below 80 (I still have days over 40, haha!).  That number should realistically be closer to 32 (could be the difference between an 82 and a 78 right there), and I really struggle to get my putts per round down into the low 30s.  Which leads me to point #2...

 

2.  Proximity to hole:  At a certain point, I know I'm going to need to hit it closer to the hole, more consistently.  I can push north of 50% GIR in a round, but not all GIRs are created equally, and when I hit a PW into a green that leaves me with a 40-50 foot putt, it's a grind to make par from that point.  Hitting it closer is going to make 2 putts more comfortable and 1 putts more possible.

I found tracking SG (every shot, not just 2putts from 21ft... but where did the 21ft putt ended up) to be very helpful in those two areas - to figure out what the low hanging fruit... easily identify what range you need to work on putting (answer is probably 5-8 feet) and proximity to the hole for those GIR (and nonGIR) from different distances; 23ft from 110yds is a lot different than from 190yds... just my 2 cents 

[ChaosTheory]

2 hours ago, Krt22 said:

There is no easy path at this point, you need to start hitting the ball closer to the hole. The only area where you might be off is playing back edge of the green all the time. You might want to look into DECADE for picking proper targets, you might be able to eliminate a bogey or two with target selection 

Me personally, I don’t believe in playing for the back edge. (Even though I included it in the list.)  Im usually shading towards the bigger part of the green.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Snowman9000

[ChaosTheory]

1 hour ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

I'm sort of in a similar struggle, although I'm still trying to consistently clean up the mistakes you've listed.  I see two areas of my own game that I know are going to need improvement long term for me to start breaking 80 consistently:

 

1. # of Putts.  Even if you 2 putt every hole, 36 feels like too many to consistently push below 80 (I still have days over 40, haha!).  That number should realistically be closer to 32 (could be the difference between an 82 and a 78 right there), and I really struggle to get my putts per round down into the low 30s.  Which leads me to point #2...

 

2.  Proximity to hole:  At a certain point, I know I'm going to need to hit it closer to the hole, more consistently.  I can push north of 50% GIR in a round, but not all GIRs are created equally, and when I hit a PW into a green that leaves me with a 40-50 foot putt, it's a grind to make par from that point.  Hitting it closer is going to make 2 putts more comfortable and 1 putts more possible.

 

Here's hoping we figure it out one day.

Sounds very similar to my game.  

[me05501]

4 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

What comes after:

No 3 putts

No punishing drives

No doubles

No bogies on par 5s

Play for the back edge

Just get it on the green/ No 2 chips

 

 

We're all motivated differently, so take this with a grain of salt, but I've learned my brain doesn't react well to prohibitions.

 

Don't do this, avoid that, never let this happen, yadda yadda...it's too negative. It puts my brain in protection mode instead of execution mode. 

 

I'd rather have a goal based on accomplishments that punishments.

 

Instead of "NO THREE PUTTS" try "Average less than 2 putts per hole." 

Instead of "NO PUNISHING DRIVES" try "Play for the middle of the fairway" 

 

It's just a mental thing but it seems like an important one. 

[ChaosTheory]

This is helping clarify my thoughts.

 

 I don’t keep any detailed stats, just the basics.

 I hit enough GIRs .  Could always be more but it’s enough.

 

Poor scoring average on par fives.  We have a couple that are well bunkered off the tees, and then again in the layup zone, and it’s easy to end up with bogey.  I’m still working through the risk reward mix off of those tees.

 

Putting.  32 putts for me is a rare, great day.  I’m usually 35 ish, with the occasional really bad 39 or 40.  Lag putting on fast greens is definitely a work in progress.  For me, firm fast greens are driving up my scores, as they affect approaches, chips, and putts.

 

Edit to add:

For the last 8 rounds:

GIRs 8.5

Putts 35.5

Par 5 avg:  5.6

Par 4 avg: 4.5

Par 3 avg: 3.5

I don't track fairways because I'm a good driver.

 

Par Saves of any type:  26%

Birdies: Not many.  5 in 8 rounds.  2 on the same par 3, 2 on the same shortish par 4, one on another shortish par 4. 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Snowman9000
more stuff

[NJBigFish22]

Obviously the end goal is to shoot under par, but in my opinion, getting to par requires playing boring golf.  Off the tee you need to hit 10-12 fairways, even if that means taking a club that may leave a further approach shot to avoid trouble.  Hit to the center of the greens, generally you should be able to 2 putt from most places.  For par 3’s I don’t view as scoring holes, I am happy to take a par and move on, if I sink a longer putt or hit it close that is a bonus. On par 5’s, need to take advantage of these as your scoring holes.  Sometimes a lay up is the best approach.  Par 4’s, fairways and greens, boring golf.

 

Tracking of shots over your rounds is going to identify weakness or items to work on.  

[phizzy30]

More GIR is key to consistently breaking 80 and getting to scratch. 

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

42 minutes ago, Snowman9000 said:

Sounds very similar to my game.  

Here’s hoping we can grind our way through it. I’ve heard trying to break par is even more miserable. 

[ChaosTheory]

7 minutes ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

Here’s hoping we can grind our way through it. I’ve heard trying to break par is even more miserable. 

 

On my second 72, I was laying -1 on the 18th green, 30 feet away from the pin.  Yep, 3 putted.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SNIPERBBB]

More one putts. Which means getting more GIRs and following birdie putts to go down and getting your scrambling to 50%. If you miss 10 greens and you save par on half of them you're shooting no worse than 77(par 72) assuming no penalties and no birdies. 

 

 

[ChaosTheory]

4 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

More one putts. Which means getting more GIRs and following birdie putts to go down and getting your scrambling to 50%. If you miss 10 greens and you save par on half of them you're shooting no worse than 77(par 72) assuming no penalties and no birdies. 

 

 

 

In the last 8 rounds I've only had 20 one putts.  And 5 were in one round.

That is horrible. 

🤮

 

Of course, there can be many causes.  BUT, I know I'm missing at make-able distances inside 10 feet.

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, Snowman9000 said:

This is helping clarify my thoughts.

 

 I don’t keep any detailed stats, just the basics.

 I hit enough GIRs .  Could always be more but it’s enough.

 

Poor scoring average on par fives.  We have a couple that are well bunkered off the tees, and then again in the layup zone, and it’s easy to end up with bogey.  I’m still working through the risk reward mix off of those tees.

 

Putting.  32 putts for me is a rare, great day.  I’m usually 35 ish, with the occasional really bad 39 or 40.  Lag putting on fast greens is definitely a work in progress.  For me, firm fast greens are driving up my scores, as they affect approaches, chips, and putts.

 

Edit to add:

For the last 8 rounds:

GIRs 8.5

Putts 35.5

Par 5 avg:  5.6

Par 3 avg: 3.5

I don't track fairways because I'm a good driver.

 

It would take a lot of time to get the par saves.  It's not high enough.

 

 

 

I would start tracking putt length and use the free SG putting websites to see where you stand.  Seems like you can easily shave a few strokes with the putter alone. (and maybe short game to get more makeable 1 putts)

[ChaosTheory]

Before I put these numbers together I wasn't seeing the picture.

Fog of war.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Snowman9000

[PracticeSwinger]

2 minutes ago, Snowman9000 said:

 

In the last 8 rounds I've only had 20 one putts.  And 5 were in one round.

That is horrible. 

🤮

 

Of course, there can be many causes.  BUT, I know I'm missing at make-able distances inside 10 feet.

That is killing you... 14% of 1putt... on average a 5cap 1putt 36% of the time (from ShotScope)...
That's 32 more putts in your last 8 rounds - or 4 strokes/round right there, over a 5cap...

[ChaosTheory]

How many one putts do you (anyone) average in a round?

 

edit:  answered above.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Snowman9000

[PracticeSwinger]

1 minute ago, Snowman9000 said:

How many one putts do you (anyone) average in a round?

 

edit:  answered above.

Quick benchmark 

[ChaosTheory]

2 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

Quick benchmark 

 

Big thanks!

Man if I could just hit the 10hcp averages I'd be on top of the world.  Well I guess I had better stop kidding myself about my putting.