How to Improve Individual Pace of Play

[_conejunkie]

I was talking with my junior this week and was told that they get stressed out and don't play as well when they feel rushed / needing to keep up (playing partners are fast, junior is the shortest of group, etc.) and the scores show it.

 

My junior has a very set preshot routine and in my opinion is often way too long but I can't knock the results when they aren't rushed.

 

- What are some tips to improve their pace of play?

- How do introduce increasing walking speed (not running)?

- How do you introduce a shorter preshot routine?

- etc.

[Abh159]

It might be helpful if you tell us what the pre-shot routine is and how long it typically takes.

 

Is he taking 10 practice swings? Spending 3 minutes with a rangefinder lasering everything in sight? Waiting until it's his turn to putt before starting to get a read?

 

Generally speaking, walking fast isn't really going to help all that much since you still might have to wait once you get to your ball. The easiest way to improve pace is to simply be ready to hit as soon as it's your turn. 

 

 

[kekoa]

There are all types of players on the jr. circuit.  Fast, Deathly slow, and everywhere in between.  I'm not sure he should change his routine unless for some reason his group is constantly being put on a clock.  I'd say my son has the opposite issue.  He plays fairly fast.  If a kid takes a long time it affects his game.  The worst are the kids doing aimpoint- LOL!!   I've seen kids do this on purpose in team events when they know their opponents like to play fast.  They will slow things down and try to throw the faster kids off rhythm.

 

The kids need to adapt, which will benefit them most in the long run

[hangontight]

My take is it is OK to take time in the scoring areas.   My 11 YO son is very self conscious of playing slow (good), but I often have to tell him its OK to slow down around/on the green.   I kind of a made it a challenge/game early on to always be the first one TO the green, and TO the next tee box.  He rarely is last to either, even when he hits/putts out last.  He knows where to put his bag, log scores on the next tee, etc.   He can easily and comfortably play a serious round at a 3h - 3h 15m pace on a walking friendly course.   I dont think that preshot routines are the main culprit (barring something exhaustive), at least not to the point its worth rushing and playing poorly...  I think rather the seconds lost by improper bag placement, poor turn awareness, etc.   add up.   Be ready to jump on the tee before your playing partners ball hits the ground, then do your thing.  Then beat them to the green or tee.   

 

As far as the group - kids need to learn to putt out more often.   3 foot putt, finish it up.  take your time to read it. But get on with it.  I think more 3'rs are missed from over reading than are missed from just stepping up and driving it home.  So much time is lost on greens transitioning between whos turn it is to putt.

Edited July 28, 2022 by hangontight

[Ty_Webb]

Biggest things I see for pace of play are:

 

- waiting till it's your turn to start getting ready. If you're first to the ball a lot, then I don't think you need to rush. I think the PGA tour guidelines are about a minute for the first to play and 40 seconds for the rest. You could time your junior and see if they need to cut that down any.

- by the green, put your bag at the point closest to the next tee. People walking back across the green after getting their bag drive me crazy

- if you're first up on the tee, play, then mark the card. If you're not first up, mark the card, then play.

- no need to run, but walk with a sense of purpose towards your ball. If you can't get all the way to your ball because someone else is playing, pay attention to when they've hit and then go to your ball.

- then it's really a matter of keeping your routine short and sweet. For most people overthinking it is a bad idea. First instincts are usually pretty good.

[tiger1873]

Most of the time is lost on the putting green.  Kids need to finish their short putts not mark them and let the others putt.  That's ok at club with a bunch of old people but in a tournament finish the hole if you within 3 feet for sure.

 

The other thing is be at your ball and ready to hit. No need to wait for other person if they're still walking to the ball. 

 

When it comes to routine and other little things as long as everyone isn't watching them all the time take practice swings and over think the shot it isn't a big deal.

 

As for penalties you can't go by that at all. Here in Florida on the FJT tour they have one the dumbest rules for time.  If your one the first groups out and paired with a player who has rulings or has a bad day you can count on getting a few strokes and there is not much they can do about it.  It's bad enough that you need to WD if your paired with a bad player.

 

At the end of the day if the group your playing with is keeping up with the group in front of you don't worry about time.  If your kid is 2 or 3 holes behind a group at every tournament you need to do something about it.

[tiger1873]

20 hours ago, kekoa said:

There are all types of players on the jr. circuit.  Fast, Deathly slow, and everywhere in between.  I'm not sure he should change his routine unless for some reason his group is constantly being put on a clock.  I'd say my son has the opposite issue.  He plays fairly fast.  If a kid takes a long time it affects his game.  The worst are the kids doing aimpoint- LOL!!   I've seen kids do this on purpose in team events when they know their opponents like to play fast.  They will slow things down and try to throw the faster kids off rhythm.

 

The kids need to adapt, which will benefit them most in the long run

 

Best way to deal with kids who are slow on purpose  is have your kid leave them on the green and start walking to the next hole.  Pretty soon they have to run to keep up with the group. 

[heavy_hitter]

Slow groups differ in the reasons with younger kids and older kids.

 

 

I have watched countless hours of junior golf.  Slow play in groups is generally caused by at least one player not being ready to play coupled with a brutally exhausting pre-shot routine.  If a kid spends more than 15 seconds behind the ball they have spent too long.  Take a practice swing, get behind the ball to gather thoughts, get your line, set up and hit the ball.  Anything else is just overkill.

 

On the greens is the second part of this.  Kids waiting for their turn to start their routine is equally exhausting.  If you aren't the first to putt, you should have already completed the routine.  Once the other ball is marked you should be putting.

 

I agree with @kekoa.  Aim Point Juniors are usually the longest to putt though I have seen some do it rather quickly.

 

Slow rounds are a different issue than slow play.

 

I also agree with @tiger1873in regards to the FJT.  Dumbest slow play policy on the planet along with it in many cases being completely subjective.

[golfortennis]

59 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

Most of the time is lost on the putting green.  Kids need to finish their short putts not mark them and let the others putt.  That's ok at club with a bunch of old people but in a tournament finish the hole if you within 3 feet for sure.

 

The other thing is be at your ball and ready to hit. No need to wait for other person if they're still walking to the ball. 

 

When it comes to routine and other little things as long as everyone isn't watching them all the time take practice swings and over think the shot it isn't a big deal.

 

As for penalties you can't go by that at all. Here in Florida on the FJT tour they have one the dumbest rules for time.  If your one the first groups out and paired with a player who has rulings or has a bad day you can count on getting a few strokes and there is not much they can do about it.  It's bad enough that you need to WD if your paired with a bad player.

 

At the end of the day if the group your playing with is keeping up with the group in front of you don't worry about time.  If your kid is 2 or 3 holes behind a group at every tournament you need to do something about it.

 

There is a very big caveat to that though.  Stepping on someone's line.  If you are going to make yourself "uncomfortable" at all trying to avoid the line while tapping in, mark it.  I'm someone who hates slow play as much as the next guy, but it happened to me, and as my buddy said, they won't show you the same courtesy in trying to speed up, so, why put yourself at the disadvantage.

 

The big thing is try to at least have an idea of what you want to do before you get to the ball.  Walking allows you to do a bit of thinking about the next shot, so use it.  Make sure that the preshot routine is simply actions based on the decision made, and does not include decision making.  If you are the longest, walk ahead if your ball is out of the other player's line.  But by all means, give some thought to the shot as you approach it.  Of course the lie may mean you can't do what you thought, but in the fairway especially, a kid have a decent idea of whether to go at the pin, play a little safer, layup, while walking to the ball.  It's not rocket surgery.

[tiger1873]

18 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

There is a very big caveat to that though.  Stepping on someone's line.  If you are going to make yourself "uncomfortable" at all trying to avoid the line while tapping in, mark it.  I'm someone who hates slow play as much as the next guy, but it happened to me, and as my buddy said, they won't show you the same courtesy in trying to speed up, so, why put yourself at the disadvantage.

 

The big thing is try to at least have an idea of what you want to do before you get to the ball.  Walking allows you to do a bit of thinking about the next shot, so use it.  Make sure that the preshot routine is simply actions based on the decision made, and does not include decision making.  If you are the longest, walk ahead if your ball is out of the other player's line.  But by all means, give some thought to the shot as you approach it.  Of course the lie may mean you can't do what you thought, but in the fairway especially, a kid have a decent idea of whether to go at the pin, play a little safer, layup, while walking to the ball.  It's not rocket surgery.

 

Most of the time it has nothing to do with stepping on anyones line.  What I see is a lot kids lag putt then mark the ball at 1 or 2 feet out.   The worst is when they have to move the marker and then put it back.  Just have to use common sense on the green and things move a lot faster.

[heavy_hitter]

24 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

There is a very big caveat to that though.  Stepping on someone's line.  If you are going to make yourself "uncomfortable" at all trying to avoid the line while tapping in, mark it.  I'm someone who hates slow play as much as the next guy, but it happened to me, and as my buddy said, they won't show you the same courtesy in trying to speed up, so, why put yourself at the disadvantage.

 

The big thing is try to at least have an idea of what you want to do before you get to the ball.  Walking allows you to do a bit of thinking about the next shot, so use it.  Make sure that the preshot routine is simply actions based on the decision made, and does not include decision making.  If you are the longest, walk ahead if your ball is out of the other player's line.  But by all means, give some thought to the shot as you approach it.  Of course the lie may mean you can't do what you thought, but in the fairway especially, a kid have a decent idea of whether to go at the pin, play a little safer, layup, while walking to the ball.  It's not rocket surgery.

[leezer99]

20 hours ago, golfortennis said:

  If you are the longest, walk ahead if your ball is out of the other player's line.  

This happens to my son all the time.  He'll hit it past his two playing partners but invariably they flank him so he has to go way off to the side or stay back before he can even walk to his ball. He's slow to hit but plays fast if that makes sense.  

[Movingday]

Yeah. Pretty much to echo what most have said. Playing fast is about what you do when it’s not your turn. Being ready to walk as soon as the last tee shot is hit, getting to your hall quick, shooting yardage while others are making decisions, reading green while on way to marking ball. I have always tried to get my boys to play fast while not hurrying. The biggest issue I see is just that kids are kids, and they just lolligag around in between shots 

[Strategery]

If you take 11 practice swings like the American player did in the US junior am finals today, you will *never* be invited back to play in my group.

[MountainKing]

On 7/28/2022 at 12:25 PM, _conejunkie said:

I was talking with my junior this week and was told that they get stressed out and don't play as well when they feel rushed / needing to keep up (playing partners are fast, junior is the shortest of group, etc.) and the scores show it.

 

My junior has a very set preshot routine and in my opinion is often way too long but I can't knock the results when they aren't rushed.

 

- What are some tips to improve their pace of play?

- How do introduce increasing walking speed (not running)?

- How do you introduce a shorter preshot routine?

- etc.

 

If you think he has a long pre-shot routine, work on that.  His results shouldn't matter if the routine is 5 seconds or 5 minutes, at the end of the day it's the same swing he's putting on the golf ball.  A long preshot routine is more of a mental issue over anything else.  Nobody should need much more than getting the yardage, get your club and go. 

[DevilDog]

Slow play is a lot of times more enforced by the event officials in junior events than any other events.  My son played with some painfully slow players and tournament officials issued warnings then invoked penalty strokes on the offending players after observing the groups to see who is causing the problem.  In one case, the kid waited until his turn, shot yardage quickly but stood behind the ball and took a lot of practice swings, then walked up to address the ball backed off and took some more practice swings, finally addressed ball and waggled I don't know how many times.  Did this every shot until he got hit with penalties. A kid can play at a pace slower than other members of his group but the kid MUST keep pace with group ahead or face the possibility of penalties

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

I have notice more and more young kids - young adults marking 1-3 footers.

 

I first seen it with my daughter several years ago on PKB.  Third hole par 3 at one tournament.  This group of girls took turns lag putting and then about a foot from the hole.  It had to be something seen or taught.

 

It cause a back up so long it affected starting times.

 

I have now noticed this with some younger boys as well.  Mainly cause daughter has been in groups behind 10-14 yo boys (which is stupid to start).  Kids lag it to 3 ft and then perform aim point express for the next 10 minutes.  While the Dads are in the corner hanging on each putt.

[Movingday]

4 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

I have notice more and more young kids - young adults marking 1-3 footers.

 

I first seen it with my daughter several years ago on PKB.  Third hole par 3 at one tournament.  This group of girls took turns lag putting and then about a foot from the hole.  It had to be something seen or taught.

 

It cause a back up so long it affected starting times.

 

I have now noticed this with some younger boys as well.  Mainly cause daughter has been in groups behind 10-14 yo boys (which is stupid to start).  Kids lag it to 3 ft and then perform aim point express for the next 10 minutes.  While the Dads are in the corner hanging on each putt.

Mine are definitely guilty of this. It 100% started from trying to avoid stepping in lines. It’s something I noticed this summer and have been addressing. Learning how and when to straddle a line vs marking. Also, marking, lining up, and putting the 3 ft putt all in your turn. 

[hangontight]

On 7/29/2022 at 10:48 AM, tiger1873 said:

 

Best way to deal with kids who are slow on purpose  is have your kid leave them on the green and start walking to the next hole.  Pretty soon they have to run to keep up with the group. 

Implemented two days at worlds this week. Got paired both days with one kid each day who was brutally slow. My son felt weird at first but got the hang of it and actually fell into a good rythym.  

[heavy_hitter]

I am going to say this in here.  Just because you play poorly doesn't mean you have to play slow.  We played in a team event this weekend.  One of my kids was paired with a player that shot a 139 and another player a kid shot 123.  They were never slow and moved along.  One group got a little behind becuase there was two players struggling in his group, but they still finished in time.

[RmoorePE]

Daughter hates getting stuck on the clock. She played in an event a few weeks ago where her group continually lost the group ahead. She plays fast and the other kids just never got to their ball quickly. My kid was struggling pretty bad mentally due to the clock issues, she always hit it farther and would be waiting near her ball before the other two had even reached theirs. Then they had to go through the entire routine yardage to divot. One of the other players was an awful putter, and I would say she made at least 20 practice putts. I could watch her completely lose focus on the putt during the practice swing session. Her putting routine was a major cause for poor scoring. Not to mention this routine applied to putts between 2-3 feet. I think teaching a good solid short pre shot routine is critical for all players.

 

The funniest though was when daughter was playing in a group with a couple of boys. One of them was probably 12 years old, very accomplished player based on what one of the coaches told me. They were playing in a June rainstorm. Just straight curtains of rain for hours. The only way to play was to hide under umbrella, run out, and hit the shot, run back in, dry off and move along.

 

This kid would not waver from his pre shot routine, which was painstakingly thorough. Address, step back, cleansing breath, practice swings, cleansing breath, address, adjust grip, waggle, check target, cleansing breath, swing! Not only was there many steps, he did it all really slow. The problem was that it was taking over a minute out in the rain, and by the time he made it to his last address of the ball he was soaked, especially his grips. So he would stop, go dry grips under the umbrella and start again, and again by the time he addressed his grips were wet and he would need to re-dry (the ultimate negative feedback loop) or in a couple instances the club flew out of his hands. The other kids would just stand under the umbrella with their club and hands in a towel, run out, look at the target and hit the ball. The only job was staying dry. No one had any pre tense of shooting a good score that day.

 

This was the kind of tournament where parents can't talk to the kids, and have to stay 30 yards away, and the officials kept putting them on the clock. Finally, I pulled an official aside and told him the problem, and he told me he could not give specific tips to the kid on how to speed up. I'm sure he was correct, but I was like just nudge the kid about the rain everyone here is miserable. Finally, the kid's mother dragged him off the course via WD at the turn. She was with the rest of us parents and totally embarrassed. Not really anyone's fault except whoever coached the player into this terrible pre shot routine, and his belief that he could not change it at all.

 

Luckily for all, the TD called the whole thing off when my daughters group had just teed off on 11.

 

 

[mrshinsa]

2 hours ago, RmoorePE said:

Daughter hates getting stuck on the clock. She played in an event a few weeks ago where her group continually lost the group ahead. She plays fast and the other kids just never got to their ball quickly. My kid was struggling pretty bad mentally due to the clock issues, she always hit it farther and would be waiting near her ball before the other two had even reached theirs. Then they had to go through the entire routine yardage to divot. One of the other players was an awful putter, and I would say she made at least 20 practice putts. I could watch her completely lose focus on the putt during the practice swing session. Her putting routine was a major cause for poor scoring. Not to mention this routine applied to putts between 2-3 feet. I think teaching a good solid short pre shot routine is critical for all players.

 

The funniest though was when daughter was playing in a group with a couple of boys. One of them was probably 12 years old, very accomplished player based on what one of the coaches told me. They were playing in a June rainstorm. Just straight curtains of rain for hours. The only way to play was to hide under umbrella, run out, and hit the shot, run back in, dry off and move along.

 

This kid would not waver from his pre shot routine, which was painstakingly thorough. Address, step back, cleansing breath, practice swings, cleansing breath, address, adjust grip, waggle, check target, cleansing breath, swing! Not only was there many steps, he did it all really slow. The problem was that it was taking over a minute out in the rain, and by the time he made it to his last address of the ball he was soaked, especially his grips. So he would stop, go dry grips under the umbrella and start again, and again by the time he addressed his grips were wet and he would need to re-dry (the ultimate negative feedback loop) or in a couple instances the club flew out of his hands. The other kids would just stand under the umbrella with their club and hands in a towel, run out, look at the target and hit the ball. The only job was staying dry. No one had any pre tense of shooting a good score that day.

 

This was the kind of tournament where parents can't talk to the kids, and have to stay 30 yards away, and the officials kept putting them on the clock. Finally, I pulled an official aside and told him the problem, and he told me he could not give specific tips to the kid on how to speed up. I'm sure he was correct, but I was like just nudge the kid about the rain everyone here is miserable. Finally, the kid's mother dragged him off the course via WD at the turn. She was with the rest of us parents and totally embarrassed. Not really anyone's fault except whoever coached the player into this terrible pre shot routine, and his belief that he could not change it at all.

 

Luckily for all, the TD called the whole thing off when my daughters group had just teed off on 11.

 

 

 

If she's a longer hitter than other kids, she can walk up to the ball ahead of the group.  If that would put her in the way of the other player, simply walk up to the ball, get the yardage and move to the side.

 

On the putting green after she holes out, she can pick up her stuff and start heading towards the next tee.  

First person to hole out walks to the next tee, second person to hole out gets the flag. Always play ready golf.  45 seconds to hit the ball.  Keep doing this and the group should not fall behind.  

 

An official told you that he cannot give tips on how to speed up the play?  That's total BS!

That's part of the officials job!  Talk to another official who knows what hes doing.  

Edited August 17, 2022 by mrshinsa

[RmoorePE]

2 hours ago, mrshinsa said:

 

If she's a longer hitter than other kids, she can walk up to the ball ahead of the group.  If that would put her in the way of the other player, simply walk up to the ball, get the yardage and move to the side.

 

On the putting green after she holes out, she can pick up her stuff and start heading towards the next tee.  

First person to hole out walks to the next tee, second person to hole out gets the flag. Always play ready golf.  45 seconds to hit the ball.  Keep doing this and the group should not fall behind.  

 

An official told you that he cannot give tips on how to speed up the play?  That's total BS!

That's part of the officials job!  Talk to another official who knows what hes doing.  

 

Yeah, she knows all that stuff. In the round I was discussing about the other two girls, by hole 5  and through the rest of the round she would have hit her tee shot and be waiting by her bag before the other kids had even got to the tee box. Even when she was putting the flag stick in, she would hit before they got their drivers out of their bags. Then on approach shots, basically within 4 seconds of the player in front of her hitting their shot, hers was on its way, unless like you said she was in front of them, but yes she always had her club in hand off to the side before the other kids hit their shots. She tried everything to get the other kids moving, they were just older than her by a few years and were having more fun just cruising along.

 

Regarding the rainy day, I was certainly confused by the official's stance on it. I was trying to tell him, "the poor kid just keeps getting soaked grips before every shot, and no one here is having fun". His opinion was that if he told him to change his pre shot routine it would be giving swing advice.

[kekoa]

Need to mention a kids we played with at Pinehurst the final day.  It still haunts me thinking about it.  Seemed like every putt was to win the Masters.  5ft, 10ft, 20ft, it didn't matter.   His normal routine includes 8 practice putting strokes.  Yup you read that right.  His dad enjoyed pulling him off the ball a few times as well so guess what?  Reset and 8 more.  The most practice strokes he took was 24.  I'm not joking.   I wanted to record this, but my phone would have run out of battery.  

[Medson]

24 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Need to mention a kids we played with at Pinehurst the final day.  It still haunts me thinking about it.  Seemed like every putt was to win the Masters.  5ft, 10ft, 20ft, it didn't matter.   His normal routine includes 8 practice putting strokes.  Yup you read that right.  His dad enjoyed pulling him off the ball a few times as well so guess what?  Reset and 8 more.  The most practice strokes he took was 24.  I'm not joking.   I wanted to record this, but my phone would have run out of battery.  

One thing I learned is the more involved I am, the worst my daughter usually plays. Yes, she will make bad decisions and yes, it is possible I can save her a stroke in these situations. However, more likely, my messages just add another layer of unnecessary data that probably will cause more confusion & create unforced errors. 

 

The ability to "let go", esp. during the heat of competition is the ultimate art. And I did find my daughter's pace of play improves after I became "less involved". 

[hangontight]

2 hours ago, kekoa said:

Need to mention a kids we played with at Pinehurst the final day.  It still haunts me thinking about it.  Seemed like every putt was to win the Masters.  5ft, 10ft, 20ft, it didn't matter.   His normal routine includes 8 practice putting strokes.  Yup you read that right.  His dad enjoyed pulling him off the ball a few times as well so guess what?  Reset and 8 more.  The most practice strokes he took was 24.  I'm not joking.   I wanted to record this, but my phone would have run out of battery.  

We got put on the clock the 2nd day this year at Worlds because of a kid in our group like this.  2 holes of my son walking to next tee , hitting, and being almost halfway up fairway sent the message.  Of course no ill intent on the slow kid, but he crumbled.

[heavy_hitter]

Serious question.  Do you dock a group for slow play if one of the kids has to stop middle of the round to drop Deuces and they get a hole behing?

 

[mrshinsa]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

Serious question.  Do you dock a group for slow play if one of the kids has to stop middle of the round to drop Deuces and they get a hole behing?

 

Serious answer.  Drop the player from the group and keep moving.  
If the official recognizes that one person is responsible for holding up the group, only that player is penalized.

[heavy_hitter]

9 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

Serious answer.  Drop the player from the group and keep moving.  
If the official recognizes that one person is responsible for holding up the group, only that player is penalized.

Drop the player?  Several tours penalize the entire group, not the individual.  Moving on the kids will risk a penalty in themselves for letting the other player get out of place.  This is honestly not an option for anyone.

[Medson]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Serious question.  Do you dock a group for slow play if one of the kids has to stop middle of the round to drop Deuces and they get a hole behing?

 

I’d imagine the said player would want to communicate early so that he/she can finish the hole first and go take care the business.