LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[idrive]

Reusse’s LIV’s 54-hole bouts only begin to hack at its credibility (msn.com)

[orr444]

Good lord Reusse makes big time golf!

[sfiggins]

15 hours ago, idrive said:

 

There are several players ready to step in and take their place.

 

The list is a mile long. Hopefully when they achieve fame solely because of the PGAT, they won't turn their back on the folks that made them stars.

 
iMO they will have made themselves stars and should be able to decide their own fate.

[idrive]

5 hours ago, ronsc1985 said:

Why is it you think professional golfers play golf? It's for the money period. If they wanted just legacy they could stay armature and still get into the majors except the PGA if they could qualify.

 

Then why did so many players turn liv down?  Rahm - Morikawa to name just a few. I'm not sure you understand "legacy."  Guaranteed It lasts longer than the money.

 

5 hours ago, ronsc1985 said:

 

Cam is doing exactly what any savvy businessman would do , i.e. attempting to  maximize his income.

 

An interesting experiment would be to decrease the US Open prize money to 0 and run a competing event with even 1/4 the usual Open purse.  My guess is there would be a stampede to the competing event by most all the professional field.

 

Not a chance. You have it backwards.

 

4 hours ago, Rob G 89 said:

If cam and hideki join before presidents cup do you see a scenario of it being cancelled? Look at the lack of talent after those 2.

 

 

They should just cancel it now because nobody could possibly win without those two on their team.  Where do you come up with this stuff? 

[maowv]

3 hours ago, subrew said:

 

This seems to be something you keep harping on about, but fyi, Patrick Reed didn't talk about "more time with my family" as a reason for joining LIV.  He specifically talked about the format, the team aspect, and in fact "getting back to the grind and getting out there with the guys."

 

Some LIV players absolutely talked about more time with family.  But Patrick did not.  

 

Didn't Patrick Reed disown his family a couple years ago, or maybe they disowned him? Why wouldn't he want more time at home? Sounds like a lovely spot.

[Dicka]

4 hours ago, subrew said:

 

This seems to be something you keep harping on about, but fyi, Patrick Reed didn't talk about "more time with my family" as a reason for joining LIV.  He specifically talked about the format, the team aspect, and in fact "getting back to the grind and getting out there with the guys."

 

Some LIV players absolutely talked about more time with family.  But Patrick did not.  

 

If I was PReed, I'd be signing up to spend less time with family.

[bekgolf]

4 hours ago, Stevens24 said:

While they want to, They will likely not have a choice as it would be severely detrimental to the image of The Masters. They will instruct the announcers to not mention the litigation which will likely be going on. But do you really think they would not invite 12-15 players who are exempt at that point no to play? The Masters views themselves as above all of that.

 

Litigation?  Are you suggesting that someone would sue because they weren't invited to an invitational?  Or am I misinterpreting?

[Holy Moses]

5 hours ago, subrew said:

 

This seems to be something you keep harping on about, but fyi, Patrick Reed didn't talk about "more time with my family" as a reason for joining LIV.  He specifically talked about the format, the team aspect, and in fact "getting back to the grind and getting out there with the guys."

 

Some LIV players absolutely talked about more time with family.  But Patrick did not.  

Reed did a promo video for LIV at the Greenbrier. He’s on a family vacation there and he said he was tired of seeing his family on Facetime. “LIV allows to be a part of things greater than golf, like family and watching my kids grow up and really being a part of their lives.” 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Holy Moses

[Holy Moses]

2 hours ago, maowv said:

 

Didn't Patrick Reed disown his family a couple years ago, or maybe they disowned him? Why wouldn't he want more time at home? Sounds like a lovely spot.

Not his wife and kids

[johnseg]

8 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Awwww, well if you’re niece got it for you…then that’s nice ; )

 

Hey, now that you mention ANGC hats, I really think the Masters will ban the LIV players. 
 

Just to control the media/public narrative alone. They control every aspect of the Masters very closely. Money is not even a consideration, I’ve read they could make many x more licensing the broadcast to the highest bidders, for example, but want control of everything, even who sponsors/commercials. 
 

So, I could see them removing anything LIV related from the event. Just because they don’t want a a speck of LIV to be present or sen or commented on.  
 

Including past champions. 

Of course they will omit those players. Especially those that are suspended by one of the Tours. If you believe that Phil was suspended in March it is plain to see that the Masters and PGA honored the suspension.

[Forged4ever]

Regardless of where he plants the peg next year, this guy is as Classy as they come and if I was commissioner, I'd give him a "Commissioner's Exemption" for as long as he stayed within the top 175 earnings wise. 
 

This scene is after a QUINTUPLE BOGIE on 18, basically ending his Play-Off hopes and any chance of keeping his card and you would never ever know it by his actions!!!
 

With a TBaG hat to boot, which I know of three Pros off the top of my head that will only sign THEIR sponsors' gear, no others!!

 

Later Edit(08/16/22, 4:08pm EST): A shoutout to @mikewohlwend for correcting my misstatement, as Rickie does indeed Play a TBaG ball🤙👊RPII 

 

Madison spoke of what gems he and Jordan were when they were in the Burgh in '16 when no one asked them to do a thing, there were no cameras around, and half of her kids didn't even know who Jordan was, though every child, 4 boys and two girls, ages 8-10yo, knew Rickie, lol. He was Playin with them aas though they were his own. 
 

If he leaves, I hope that they pay💰💰 him well, cuz unlike some of the others, he deserves EVERY dime!!

 

Have a Great Week My Friends👊
RP

Edited August 21, 2022 by Forged4ever

[tiderider]

6 hours ago, idrive said:

Reusse’s LIV’s 54-hole bouts only begin to hack at its credibility (msn.com)

the digs at gregory's 54 hole leads are childish ... there are plenty of reasons to dismiss liv ... greg's golfing career ain't one of them ... 

[Sharpee]

11 hours ago, ronsc1985 said:

Why is it you think professional golfers play golf? It's for the money period. If they wanted just legacy they could stay armature and still get into the majors except the PGA if they could qualify.

 

Notice how all the top player's miss the lower paying events and have to be forced by the PGA Tour to appear every now and then at these events.  Professional golfers are primarily in the entertainment business. If no one watches telecasts or goes to events their income rapidly diminishes.

 

Cam is doing exactly what any savvy businessman would do , i.e. attempting to  maximize his income.

 

An interesting experiment would be to decrease the US Open prize money to 0 and run a competing event with even 1/4 the usual Open purse.  My guess is there would be a stampede to the competing event by most all the professional field.

Great golf is not a single ingredient recipe.  Its combines history, prestige, competition, and yes money. Liv'ers only have money going so far thus the argument is that is all that matters.  Just plain wrong on that one Ronsc.

[Golfnuck]

5 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Litigation?  Are you suggesting that someone would sue because they weren't invited to an invitational?  Or am I misinterpreting?

 

Anyone that thinks they can get into the Masters via litigation is in for a rude awaking.  The only outcome would be the player and their family would be banned from Augusta for generations.

 

I also believe they have the power to "uninvite" any past winners and potentially any winners that make their way in as a full member.  Private club .... their rules.

[Thayneil]

8 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Litigation?  Are you suggesting that someone would sue because they weren't invited to an invitational?  Or am I misinterpreting?

cant justify ranking of a Major if  they deny the top players from playing

 

Its not a PGA Tour event

[smashdn]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:50 PM, jdl said:

Huh, so paying huge $$ up front to a player is the same to you as a player earning a card by actually winning enough $$ on the course?

 

And Hideki wasn't "given" a membership, he earned it. Just like Tom Kim did this season.

 

Some amazing cognitive dissonance here.

 

And not all the guys that earn a card that way decide to move over. Thomas Pieters earned his in 2017 and played some early PGA Tour events in 2018 but decided he'd rather play close to home and went back to the Euro Tour. Good luck trying that with LIV.

 

I never said it was the same thing or attempted to make it be the same thing.  And I was also not looking at this from the player's perspective but rather the Tour's.

 

I agree that he earned it based upon the criteria out there to do so, I question the criteria.  I don't question the player's merit.  I question the motives behind having criteria such as (grossly paraphrased) "you earn membership to this tour based upon how much money you earn playing golf in the rest of the world."  That is giving a player membership.

 

So, no, not cognitive dissonance.  I was viewing it through a different lens. 

 

Trying to compare the membership structure of LIV to the PGAT is some cognitive dissonance however.  They operate fundamentally differently.  One is a series of weekly golf tournaments where players are free to choose (within reason) which tournaments that they attend and where membership is maintained by finishes and meeting the minimum number of tournaments attended.  The other is a league where you are a contracted member paid by that organization to attend the limited (compared to PGAT) number of events.  This isn't a secret at this point and anyone who has joined or will be joining LIV understands this, and may even have a different contract set-up.  Remember some guys have shown up and played and then went back to their respective tours.  I got to think that they had a different contractual agreement to allow them to do so.

 

They are structured differently.  More like a base contract and bonus structure on the LIV side.  And no, you wouldn't be able to quit in the middle of the season without ramifications based upon your contract.

 

Big difference though is that LIV doesn't care where else you play or for which tour so long as you show up when you are contractually obligated.  As long as it doesn't run counter to a LIV event they were letting the LIV players play wherever.  Some guys wanted to, others did not.

[Holy Moses]

Is Cam mad that he was penalized late? 

[Holy Moses]

[johnseg]

8 hours ago, Thayneil said:

cant justify ranking of a Major if  they deny the top players from playing

 

Its not a PGA Tour event

The top players will be playing. Bubba Watson, Phil Mickelson, Sergio Garcia, Lee Westwood etc. are not the best players. They are player with names you know. These guys have timed out and the new crop has come onto the scene. I know it is uncomfortable and will take a while to realize but it has happened. I would argue that DJ is a loss. Koepka, DeChambeau and little less and the rest is meh.  Look at Gooch for instance. He has one win and has been on tour about 9 years. He is 30 and likely the player that he is. If he was on tour I would guess he would max out at 4 wins. Kevin Na is 38 with 5 tour wins. He is about maxed out.

 

I just don't understand the angst over a few guys.

 

If they can pull some top 20 guys I might have a different attitude but now it is much ado about nothing.

[MtlJeff]

12 hours ago, Golfnuck said:

 

Anyone that thinks they can get into the Masters via litigation is in for a rude awaking.  The only outcome would be the player and their family would be banned from Augusta for generations.

 

I also believe they have the power to "uninvite" any past winners and potentially any winners that make their way in as a full member.  Private club .... their rules.

 

Augusta will have a choice to make pretty soon though. I agree it's a private club and they can pretty much do what they want. But based on Cam Smith's "hip injury" it seems likely the LIV rumors are true. There will almost certainly continue to be others after him and likely at least a couple of other true contemporary top guys

 

At some point it will be hard to continue calling itself a major if like 40 guys who were top 100 within the last 2-3 years are no longer eligible

 

The USGA / R&A and OGWR will need to start figuring this out too, posturing aside i don't think these organizations want golf to be fractured in this manner, because their reputations suffer too. Their loyalty to their bros over at the PGA is the stuff of Top Gun "never leave your wingman" lore....but the more guys leave the more they all have choices to make

[khalespace]

Cam Smith withdrew from the BMW Championship with "LIV discomfort". Hope he stays out of the Tour Championship too.

[CaseyC]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/pga-tour-cam-smith-pulls-out-of-bmw-championship-golf-fans-react

 

He will not, however, be making it to the BMW Championship in Delaware this week as his team announced Monday that he will be sitting out with some “hip discomfort” that he’s been experiencing lately.

Cameron Smith, who enters the week No. 3 in the FedExCup standings, is a WD from the BMW Championship.

[Stevens24]

19 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

Litigation?  Are you suggesting that someone would sue because they weren't invited to an invitational?  Or am I misinterpreting?

Litigation between the 2 tours, nothing to do with the Masters invites. The Masters  owes itself as “above” the tour and strictly dictates to CBS what is to be said “patrons” “first cut” etc

[mitchl]

On 8/14/2022 at 11:12 AM, Rob G 89 said:

If cam and hideki join before presidents cup do you see a scenario of it being cancelled? Look at the lack of talent after those 2.

 

i think you are looking at Adam Scott joining too.    Have they said that LIV players will be ineligible for the Intl team on presidents cup?   DPWT is letting LIVers play their events now, as of course Asian tour is.   
 

its also possible that they announce and just don’t tee it up in LIV until Bangkok or later.   Or they just don’t announce at all.

Edited August 15, 2022 by mitchl

[tiderider]

5 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Augusta will have a choice to make pretty soon though. I agree it's a private club and they can pretty much do what they want. But based on Cam Smith's "hip injury" it seems likely the LIV rumors are true. There will almost certainly continue to be others after him and likely at least a couple of other true contemporary top guys

 

At some point it will be hard to continue calling itself a major if like 40 guys who were top 100 within the last 2-3 years are no longer eligible

 

The USGA / R&A and OGWR will need to start figuring this out too, posturing aside i don't think these organizations want golf to be fractured in this manner, because their reputations suffer too. Their loyalty to their bros over at the PGA is the stuff of Top Gun "never leave your wingman" lore....but the more guys leave the more they all have choices to make

it doesn't call itself a major ... the golf world does ... no one's rep will suffer because a closed competition doesn't get world points ... they won't ban previous champs, but they aren't obligated to cater to norman's ego because he's got a lot of money ... 

[MtlJeff]

12 minutes ago, tiderider said:

it doesn't call itself a major ... the golf world does ... no one's rep will suffer because a closed competition doesn't get world points ... they won't ban previous champs, but they aren't obligated to cater to norman's ego because he's got a lot of money ... 

 

I think they like being a prestigious event though. As does the USGA and R&A with their flagships. Right now the LIV guys want to play in these events. All of the bullying, threats, hundreds of K put into media campaigns through consultants the PGA has done hasn't stopped a guy like Cam Smith from going who legit could've gotten to #1 in the world last weekend. There will likely be others after him. Because the more Cam Smiths go the more chance you have to sign the next one

 

Eventually the majors can't just ignore that like 30 guys who were in the top 75 in the past 2 years aren't there. As you say, what happens if people don't think these are majors anymore then?

 

Does LIV host like a 50M purse event at Doral the same week as the US Open? Same for week of the Masters....This could happen. I dont think anyone wants this including the organizers of the current majors.

 

Honestly the more guys LIV gets i think the more this "Omerta" between the PGA, USGA, R&A, OGWR etc with start to fracture a bit

[HackerDave]

23 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Reed did a promo video for LIV at the Greenbrier. He’s on a family vacation there and he said he was tired of seeing his family on Facetime. “LIV allows to be a part of things greater than golf, like family and watching my kids grow up and really being a part of their lives.” 

 

 

What a load.  He could do that by simply joining a club.   Hell, I do that!    He want's the $$$.   The rest is garbage.

[jdl]

 

[jdl]

10 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

I never said it was the same thing or attempted to make it be the same thing.  And I was also not looking at this from the player's perspective but rather the Tour's.

 

I agree that he earned it based upon the criteria out there to do so, I question the criteria.  I don't question the player's merit.  I question the motives behind having criteria such as (grossly paraphrased) "you earn membership to this tour based upon how much money you earn playing golf in the rest of the world."  That is giving a player membership.

 

Hmmm? "playing golf in the rest of the world"? I'm pretty sure the special temporary membership is earned by playing well enough in events where the PGA tour plays, i.e. their own events, majors and events like WGC or other co-sponsored events. So not sure what you mean here?

 

10 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Trying to compare the membership structure of LIV to the PGAT is some cognitive dissonance however. 

Agree and didn't attempt it.

[Holy Moses]

3 hours ago, mitchl said:

i think you are looking at Adam Scott joining too.    Have they said that LIV players will be ineligible for the Intl team on presidents cup?   DPWT is letting LIVers play their events now, as of course Asian tour is.   
 

its also possible that they announce and just don’t tee it up in LIV until Bangkok or later.   Or they just don’t announce at all.

The PGA Tour isn’t letting LIV cancel the Presidents Cup. The best way to move forward with it after this year is to make it a men’s and women’s event. Doesn’t help that the PGA Tour is playing on meh American courses lately.