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So I played at a semi-private course yesterday and we were put behind the last group of a shotgun start club tournament that came through.  Pace of play was predictably slow and it was for reasons like what you see below.  I knew the camera wouldn't do the severity of slope justice but that pin is placed at the apex of a bulnose about 4ft from the short collar.  Even in punch recovery mode making this putt was an exercise in futility for many I'm sure.  And there were many similar pin placements in close proximity to the edge of the green.  I've played this course many times but have never seen anything this dumb, or so many times at this course.  

I'm only out playing for fun, not score but it was a bit ridiculous.

 

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Remove the nice houses from the background, make the slopes about 20% more severe, deteriorate the green quality by about 30%, and place a deep bunker with crappy sand off to the right guarding the flag...  and you'd have the pin placement on 18 at my home muni this past weekend. No tournament, just regular play. 

 

Why complain? Hit your shots. Take your score and move on. That's golf. 

 

You make a good score on that hole, you've most likely picked up one, if not two, strokes against the field. 

 

I look at it as an opportunity, not a detriment. 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, jholz said:

Remove the nice houses from the background, make the slopes about 20% more severe, deteriorate the green quality by about 30%, and place a deep bunker with crappy sand off to the right guarding the flag...  and you'd have the pin placement on 18 at my home muni this past weekend. No tournament, just regular play. 

 

Why complain? Hit your shots. Take your score and move on. That's golf. 

 

You make a good score on that hole, you've most likely picked up one, if not two, strokes against the field. 

 

I look at it as an opportunity, not a detriment. 

 

 

 

Problem is you start messing with people's handicaps when you put pins in stupid spots.  The course is rated a certain way, and it's not expecting pins to be in places like that.  If missing a putt means the ball comes all the way back to you.....  well, there should be a swinging log out there as well.  I'm not opposed to tough pins, but stupid pins are another story.  

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25 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Problem is you start messing with people's handicaps when you put pins in stupid spots.  The course is rated a certain way, and it's not expecting pins to be in places like that.  If missing a putt means the ball comes all the way back to you.....  well, there should be a swinging log out there as well.  I'm not opposed to tough pins, but stupid pins are another story.  

 

Ah right...handicaps. You have a point there, but not one that matters a whole lot to me personally. 

 

I put little stock in handicaps, or course ratings. I know it's possible for them to be relatively accurate in specific situations - but I'd argue that's the exception rather than the norm. 

 

As a result, if it isn't straight-up stroke play under regulated tournament conditions, it doesn't really matter much to me. 

 

But, that's just me. 

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34 minutes ago, jholz said:

 

Ah right...handicaps. You have a point there, but not one that matters a whole lot to me personally. 

 

I put little stock in handicaps, or course ratings. I know it's possible for them to be relatively accurate in specific situations - but I'd argue that's the exception rather than the norm. 

 

As a result, if it isn't straight-up stroke play under regulated tournament conditions, it doesn't really matter much to me. 

 

But, that's just me. 

 

If you were referring to a tournament(where everybody that cares about the score is playing the same course the same day), I agree with you.  It's stupid and sucks, but at least everyone is playing the same course.

 

But you get the guy who played today with a pin like that, and the guy who played the next day with the pin basically on a flat spot....  again, I don't mind tough pins.  Our course has shelves more so than slopes.  I don't have  aproblem with holes cut sort of close to the ledges, so long as there is decent area to put an approach shot and give you a flattish putt.  That picture above, where exactly do you hit to?  

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1 hour ago, golfortennis said:

 

Problem is you start messing with people's handicaps when you put pins in stupid spots.  The course is rated a certain way, and it's not expecting pins to be in places like that.  If missing a putt means the ball comes all the way back to you.....  well, there should be a swinging log out there as well.  I'm not opposed to tough pins, but stupid pins are another story.  


thats what the PCC is for. It can adjust the cap by a couple strokes. It’s it’s beyond that the rounds just won’t count in the low 8 so it ultimately doesn’t really matter. 
 

do you know what the goal was for the tournament? Was it a scramble or best ball? Was it a “super’s revenge” type event?  Maybe they had a reason for the pins. 

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5 minutes ago, klebs01 said:


thats what the PCC is for. It can adjust the cap by a couple strokes. It’s it’s beyond that the rounds just won’t count in the low 8 so it ultimately doesn’t really matter. 
 

do you know what the goal was for the tournament? Was it a scramble or best ball? Was it a “super’s revenge” type event?  Maybe they had a reason for the pins. 

Not a member of that course so really don't know.  What I do know is that when it's 98* & 85% humidity in south Texas, the last thing I'm looking for are course setups that ensure 5hr rounds.  Look, it's their course and they can do whatever they want with it.  But then don't be sending marshals out trying to enforce pace of play.  Couple of the choppers they paired me with were having a hard enough time getting off the tee box.  Can't have it both ways.  Anyway, I went there to hit a new driver so I was pulling it out even on holes that didn't really call for it so I didn't bother keeping a card since I knew I was going to make some big numbers if I got offline with it - which I did a couple times.  But I just picked up when the score on a hole started to balloon.  

As I mentioned it wasn't the only hole I saw that type of pin placement and had never noticed it when I played there previously, so there clearly was a motive behind it.  Seemed a bit pointless though.  To me.

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We had a couple (IMO) really dumb pin placements for our final round of the club championship yesterday. One on #6 that was tucked front-right, on a right to left slope that could easily slope to the front and off the green if you weren't careful. Guarded by a bunker right in front of that. In my club's defense, I've never seen them get this silly with the position before, so I guess an argument could be made that it's ok to do once a year, like for a final round of a club championship. 

I'm just bitter because I got on the wrong side of it and three-jacked. 🙎‍♂️

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1 hour ago, golfortennis said:

 

If you were referring to a tournament(where everybody that cares about the score is playing the same course the same day), I agree with you.  It's stupid and sucks, but at least everyone is playing the same course.

 

But you get the guy who played today with a pin like that, and the guy who played the next day with the pin basically on a flat spot....  again, I don't mind tough pins.  Our course has shelves more so than slopes.  I don't have  aproblem with holes cut sort of close to the ledges, so long as there is decent area to put an approach shot and give you a flattish putt.  That picture above, where exactly do you hit to?  

 

Middle of the green. Hope to god to make a two putt. Move on to better birdie/par opportunities. Gotta take your lumps out there. 

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1 hour ago, klebs01 said:


thats what the PCC is for. It can adjust the cap by a couple strokes. It’s it’s beyond that the rounds just won’t count in the low 8 so it ultimately doesn’t really matter. 
 

do you know what the goal was for the tournament? Was it a scramble or best ball? Was it a “super’s revenge” type event?  Maybe they had a reason for the pins. 

 

I know when they do the super's revenge event at my course, *every* hole is as difficult as can be.  This sounds as though it was just a random stupid pin.

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4 hours ago, jholz said:

Remove the nice houses from the background, make the slopes about 20% more severe, deteriorate the green quality by about 30%, and place a deep bunker with crappy sand off to the right guarding the flag...  and you'd have the pin placement on 18 at my home muni this past weekend. No tournament, just regular play. 

 

Why complain? Hit your shots. Take your score and move on. That's golf. 

 

You make a good score on that hole, you've most likely picked up one, if not two, strokes against the field. 

 

I look at it as an opportunity, not a detriment. 

 

 

 

Because NOBODY benefits from putting the pin there, and in fact, is a detriment on several levels:

 

  • It adds an amount of "luck" which isn't necessary
  • It slows play down, sometimes a LOT

 

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12 minutes ago, larrybud said:

 

Because NOBODY benefits from putting the pin there, and in fact, is a detriment on several levels:

 

  • It adds an amount of "luck" which isn't necessary
  • It slows play down, sometimes a LOT

 

 

At least at the munis I play, I'd argue there is a legitimate reason to put the pin in these positions occasionally.

 

Has to do with green wear and traffic. Sometimes the prime pin areas get so abused that they have to put it out at the sides just to keep the green in good condition.

 

With higher temps here in the mid-Atlantic, a lot of courses are struggling to keep up. 

 

Now, if people could stop dragging their feet and actually fix a ball mark, they might not have to do this. 

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2 hours ago, klebs01 said:


thats what the PCC is for. It can adjust the cap by a couple strokes. It’s it’s beyond that the rounds just won’t count in the low 8 so it ultimately doesn’t really matter. 
 

do you know what the goal was for the tournament? Was it a scramble or best ball? Was it a “super’s revenge” type event?  Maybe they had a reason for the pins. 


One hole won't move PCC, and this myth that a score "doesn't count" because it's not in the low 8/20 is ignoring the fact that an old score was pushed off the score history, so it certainly "counts" because may affect the calculation.

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37 minutes ago, larrybud said:


One hole won't move PCC, and this myth that a score "doesn't count" because it's not in the low 8/20 is ignoring the fact that an old score was pushed off the score history, so it certainly "counts" because may affect the calculation.


he said there were multiple pins like this. So PCC can take care of the issue. 
 

Yeah, an old score is falling off, one bad round isn’t making a material difference in the cap. Not to mention most people at public courses don’t have a handicap. It’s not worth the course worrying about. Also, the OP was hitting driver everywhere and not trying for a low score so it shouldn’t have been posted anyway. 

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12 minutes ago, klebs01 said:


he said there were multiple pins like this. So PCC can take care of the issue. 
 

Yeah, an old score is falling off, one bad round isn’t making a material difference in the cap. Not to mention most people at public courses don’t have a handicap. It’s not worth the course worrying about. Also, the OP was hitting driver everywhere and not trying for a low score so it shouldn’t have been posted anyway. 


One old round falling off is just as important as one new round being added. Regardless of handicap, it matters if you give a damn about your customers and pace of play. This is more than just the OP we're talking about. Poor course setup can ruin a day for everybody.

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Our course has a long and glorious history of non-golfers being in charge of pins , and receiving little guidance on how to place them. It's a real problem IMO, but we also have some crusty dudes on our boards who think it's funny when the course plays ridiculous (you know the types of people that say "if you don't want it rolling back down to your feet than make the putt" --We have a few of those guys)

 

Club championship the captain places the flags so it's usually good.

 

But for the other smaller events you can get some real problems. In our team match play event one of the holes was literally on a hill. We just stood there putting until someone made a 10 footer. I think my team won the hole with a 9

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13 minutes ago, larrybud said:


One old round falling off is just as important as one new round being added. Regardless of handicap, it matters if you give a damn about your customers and pace of play. This is more than just the OP we're talking about. Poor course setup can ruin a day for everybody.


Did it ruin the day for all their customers? Maybe it made their day for the customers in the event and maybe those customers are more important to the success of the course than the OP. 

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3 minutes ago, klebs01 said:


Did it ruin the day for all their customers? Maybe it made their day for the customers in the event and maybe those customers are more important to the success of the course than the OP. 

 

I don't know. If it was 5+ hour rounds, I would say yes, it did. Just odd how people defend crappy course setups.

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