Has the BST gone too aggressive for deal “hunters?”

[Brooks_Cupcake]

Noticed a lot of listing of clubs lately with 20%-30%+ off retail - new or mint, where there is a lot of demand for the particular OEM’s products but very little to no traction with offers or even lowball offers via PM because the deal isn’t perceived to be deep enough for WRX’ers. Not just my experience but obviously I’ve been around here for a long time so have chatted with other members as well.

 

Given we can’t comment on pricing in someone’s ad, what are everyone’s collective thoughts?

Edited August 9, 2022 by Brooks_Cupcake

[third-times-a-charm]

There was just a thread here recently - specifically about the pinned posts (which is a different clownshow all together) - that many prices were too high and users could go to ebay or other 2nd hand sellers and get the same stuff for cheaper and with guarantees from those companies/etc.

 

I think there's truth in both sides. Lots of people out there pricing used stuff like it's still new, and theres lots of people out there lowballing real cheap offers. No different than any time, really. Havent seen any trends one way or the other...

[golfwb]

I think you are 100% correct.

I have had a hard time selling anything over the last 2 years unless i mark it down to where people feel like its too good of a deal to pass up. 

Then you pay for shipping and PP Fees. 

I feel like the days of experimenting are over unless you are ok with losing 35%+ on every purchase you make (even on previously used items) . Just my opinion.

Edited August 9, 2022 by golfwb

[TyNiles]

1 hour ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

Noticed a lot of listing of clubs lately with 20%-30%+ off retail - new or mint, where there is a lot of demand for the particular OEM’s products but very little to no traction with offers or even lowball offers via PM because the deal isn’t perceived to be deep enough for WRX’ers. Not just my experience but obviously I’ve been around here for a long time so have chatted with other members as well.

 

Given we can’t comment on pricing in someone’s ad, what are everyone’s collective thoughts?

Right there with ya - I am more than fair with my pricing and I get continual low offers unless I mark it down and take a huge loss (like the Stealth plus head I sold for $250). 

 

On the flipside, I am seeing people ask $200 for Spider headcovers which is a whole other argument itself. I'm glad my days of constant experimentation are winding down, it doesn't seem as lucrative to sell on here as it once did. 

[PureStrikes54]

Yeah, traction in BST seems to be waning. Only products that move at reasonable prices are super hot or rare items. Most buyers now seem to be flippers/discount hunters with the occasional person that actually is looking to buy and game the product. 

 

Wanted to buy is even more of a joke. Have reached out so many times with the exact product someone is looking for at a reasonable price to receive no response or have someone want the product for half off the going rate. 

[third-times-a-charm]

25 minutes ago, TyNiles said:

Right there with ya - I am more than fair with my pricing and I get continual low offers unless I mark it down and take a huge loss (like the Stealth plus head I sold for $250). 

 

On the flipside, I am seeing people ask $200 for Spider headcovers which is a whole other argument itself. I'm glad my days of constant experimentation are winding down, it doesn't seem as lucrative to sell on here as it once did. 

Veblen goods such as limited headcovers - and other luxury goods - will always have niche collector markets like that.

[Rory4Pres]

For the past couple of years, new and used golf clubs have been much higher value than in past history.  Maybe it's a sign that the market is slowing down.

 

In 2017-2018, one could regularly get a great conditioned used scotty cameron for $175-250 (talking about OTR newer models like the futuras, etc).  Over the past couple of years, if you try to offer $200, you'll piss off the seller and either be ignored or cussed out.

 

 

 

 

[Anser3]

I try to list my stuff fairly  every time.  I am completely honest about the condition  (if anything, my stuff is in better condition than what I describe most of the time).  A lot of people on here seem to want something for nothing. I completely understand trying to get the best price.  Part of my problem is most of my stuff is nearly new  but some of it is slightly older  (Speeder Evolution IV shafts,  Atmost Black  Tour Spec  driver shaft,  Grafalloy Bimatrix Prototype,  Callaway GBB Epic  sub zero  head, etc).  I had one guy wanting to buy a Bimatrix shaft but was looking to pay  $50  shipped.  You can't find that shaft anymore and mine is practically new.  I asked for  $80 shipped.

 

I agree 100%.  My experimentation is over.  I pretty much know what works for me  and what doesn't  (hence the inventory of shafts I need to get rid of). 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Anser3

[Anser3]

5 minutes ago, Rory4Pres said:

For the past couple of years, new and used golf clubs have been much higher value than in past history.  Maybe it's a sign that the market is slowing down.

 

In 2017-2018, one could regularly get a great conditioned used scotty cameron for $175-250 (talking about OTR newer models like the futuras, etc).  Over the past couple of years, if you try to offer $200, you'll piss off the seller and either be ignored or cussed out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't understand  cussing people out over lowball offers.  I understand it gets annoying for sellers been there) but it doesn't take any longer to send a polite denial  back to the person.  I don't cuss, but the closest I came to a nasty response was to some member  (don't recall who)  in college who was looking for a particular club I had.  I sent him  a message  with a fair price  (club was in great shape).  The member  responded back and said he was looking to spend  about half my asking price and that he was a college student who didn't have much money and wanted to know if I would sell it at their asking price (it wasn't a "would you be willing..."  It was a "how about we meet in the middle..."  Their price  was $20 more than their original asking price  and about  $150 less than what I was selling for).

 

I started to type a message saying I remember  being a college student too, but maybe they should either get a job or stop acting so entitled  (I was very much of the understanding that many nice things had to wait until I was out of school and working.  Once I started earning money -and i don't mean work study money I was making in college- I indulged on those wants).  Their lack of funds  was not my problem in this case  as golf clubs  are  a "luxury" item and the person  wasn't truly in need (different story  if it's a true necessity the person was lacking and I could help in some way).  I then waited, deleted my reply  and simply typed back  I couldn't go that low.   On the flip side, I do believe some people  don't truly understand how much something is worth.

[Yuck]

1 hour ago, golfwb said:

I think you are 100% correct.

I have had a hard time selling anything over the last 2 years unless i mark it down to where people feel like its too good of a deal to pass up. 

Then you pay for shipping and PP Fees. 

I feel like the days of experimenting are over unless you are ok with losing 35%+ on every purchase you make (even on previously used items) . Just my opinion.

If I “experiment” with used clubs and resell, I will list it at 10% less than I paid the previous week or month and it generally sells quickly.  True I am out the 10%, PayPal and shipping, but I am ok with that as the price of experimentation.  If I lowball someone, it is truly the max price I would pay.  I don’t expect any response it the seller has no interest at that price.  My lowballs (35% off listing price) probably only succeed 30% of the time, but I am not a real frequent buyer.  (Probably 10 lowballs in last ten years, three succeeded).  Finally, if I do not get a legit offer within 24 hours, I assume I listed my price too high for “current market conditions.”

Edited August 9, 2022 by Yuck

[Rory4Pres]

25 minutes ago, Yuck said:

If I “experiment” with used clubs and resell, I will list it at 10% less than I paid the previous week or month and it generally sells quickly.  True I am out the 10%, PayPal and shipping, but I am ok with that as the price of experimentation.  If I lowball someone, it is truly the max price I would pay.  I don’t expect any response it the seller has no interest at that price.  My lowballs (35% off listing price) probably only succeed 30% of the time, but I am not a real frequent buyer.  (Probably 10 lowballs in last ten years, three succeeded).  Finally, if I do not get a legit offer within 24 hours, I assume I listed my price too high for “current market conditions.”

Good for you, most sellers think they need to pin their high priced clubs to increase the chance of it selling after the first day.

[hppyjohn]

1 hour ago, PureStrikes54 said:

Yeah, traction in BST seems to be waning. Only products that move at reasonable prices are super hot or rare items. Most buyers now seem to be flippers/discount hunters with the occasional person that actually is looking to buy and game the product. 

 

Wanted to buy is even more of a joke. Have reached out so many times with the exact product someone is looking for at a reasonable price to receive no response or have someone want the product for half off the going rate. 

Same on WTB.  You respond with exactly what they’re looking for, send pics and price (always under going rate, including promos like GG 20% off), only to be completely ignored or lowballed.  At least respond with a “sorry, higher than I was hoping for”…. some common decency goes a long way.  Even worse are the folks who say they’ll take it, ask for PP info, then never respond again.  My ignore list has been steadily growing.

[brew4eagle]

52 minutes ago, Rory4Pres said:

For the past couple of years, new and used golf clubs have been much higher value than in past history.  Maybe it's a sign that the market is slowing down.

 

In 2017-2018, one could regularly get a great conditioned used scotty cameron for $175-250 (talking about OTR newer models like the futuras, etc).  Over the past couple of years, if you try to offer $200, you'll piss off the seller and either be ignored or cussed out.

 

 

 

 

I think the increased prices are actually a sign of increased demand, not a sign of the market slowing down.

[OttoVonBizMarkie]

Market is slowing down. In the middle of covid, more people were getting in the game (or getting back in) and buying clubs. That plus supply issues made it really easy for clubs to hold their value - I remember sets of Ping i210s that were selling in a couple hours that were maybe 10% less than retail. Seems that the market isn't what it was six months ago and some people still haven't adjusted to the pricing.

 

I'd be curious if part of the issue deals with lack of past pricing in general. It's difficult to find a good price by looking at other WRX sellers' history since most people just change to price to "sold" once someone pays. I'm sure you can figure out a fair price based off eBay, but I'm really not sure what that equivalency is.

[m d g]

Stupid supply and demand : )

[KC13]

Immediate lowball offer seems to be the new thing around here.  Its annoying but what can we do... 

 

Selling on the BST has become a bit harder and requires more patience in my experience.  

 

- KC 

[golfguy875]

everything opened back up, weekend/Covid warriors flooded the market with gear. That coupled with manufacturers shortening product life cycle to strike while the iron is hot has dumped on used prices.

[NJBigFish22]

I’m going to chime in on this, I will say that I have never bought or sold on here, so take this for what it’s worth.  I have sold plenty of stuff online.

 

 From my perspective as a potential buyer, if the warranty from the OEM doesn’t transfer to the 2nd or 3rd buyer, then I am not interested in paying more than 60% of retail for common items.  If something breaks, then I have no recourse, and now becomes even more expensive.  Example, If I am looking at a Cobra LTD driver that I can buy locally for $499, why would I spend $450 for a used one that some guy wanted to try, if the warranty doesn’t transfer.  Or for someone selling just the head, I then need to buy the adapter/sleeve, maybe even a shaft, and pay to have installed.  That can get pricey if you can’t do a lot of the work yourself or have multiple shafts laying around, so saving 10-20% off retail isn’t that much of a savings. 

 

From a sellers perspective I get wanting to maximize value and the other costs keep increasing, but I guess it boils down to what your willing to lose value wise for testing.  Plus there is always some aggravation with dealing with buyers who may lowball you.  But if I offer something really low, no need to cuss me out or take offense, just tell me your not interested in selling at that price or counter me with your best and final offer.

 

Overall in the end, I think you have both people who want something for nothing, but some who overestimate the value of their stuff.

[Rory4Pres]

48 minutes ago, brew4eagle said:

I think the increased prices are actually a sign of increased demand, not a sign of the market slowing down.

yes.  I was implying things really increased in demand during the pandemic and they are just now starting to slow back down slightly.  Still much higher than they were 4-5 years ago.

[Hookasaurus Rex]

1 hour ago, PureStrikes54 said:

Yeah, traction in BST seems to be waning. Only products that move at reasonable prices are super hot or rare items. Most buyers now seem to be flippers/discount hunters with the occasional person that actually is looking to buy and game the product. 

 

Wanted to buy is even more of a joke. Have reached out so many times with the exact product someone is looking for at a reasonable price to receive no response or have someone want the product for half off the going rate. 

The WTB forum, also known as the give it to me free forum. I had never had a good experience on there until my last sale a few days ago, which was fair to both sides.

[MysteryV]

The thing is, dollars just aren't that valuable these days.  If you're only saving $50 or $100 - on a $300 shaft $600 driver - why not just buy new?

 

With things like iron sets - you have to get pretty lucky to find a buyer who fits your exact specs.  Often you're replacing grips ($70+ on a 7 piece set), shafts ($100 - $350 ish), and changing specs ($20 per club around me - $140).  Call it $350 - and folks are still asking $1100 for a $1300 set of irons (and there's the risk of pics not being good, fraud, etc.)

 

I think the combination of weak dollar and more savvy buyers with increased supply very much explains why prices are reverting to what used to be normal.

 

Personally, I've always expected to take 25% - 50% hit when selling something that I bought new.  I think folks just got used to the "Limited Edition" status of EVERYTHING over the last few years (shoes, head covers, milled knick nacks, GPUs, hoodies, cars, homes, freaking EVERYTHING) - and that's just not been how things work historically.  It's market manipulation facilitated by today's connectedness which has run rampant and HOPEFULLY is nearing an end.

[T_Golf_23]

When you couldn’t even get the products new, the secondary market was higher. People will pay closer to retail if they can get it sooner without the 6 week or 5 month waits.  This just isn’t the case anymore. 
 

waits have come down and stores have inventory. 
 

this means the secondary market spread between new and used needs to increase. 
 

it’s all about the value added - over the last 2 years it was that you can actually get the product….  now it’s you can get the product cheaper. 
 

i still think it would be beneficial for both buyers and sellers to have more active conversations about price. 
 

as both a buyer and seller, I always appreciate when people make offers as long as they are willing to discuss a fair price based on comps etc…. Same when I am a buyer.

 

too often though I see sellers and buyers just bounce from conversation if you don’t immediately pay asking or honor their first offer. 

[snagy2000]

I love when I get the low-ball offer, say no it's listed at a fair price, then get the follow up "thought you'd consider coming down since it's been posted for a couple weeks" type response. Happens on almost every listing of mine which doesn't sell quickly. If the lowballers would stop and think how the sellers are paying fees and shipping is included in most cases, they're actually getting it at a fair price and the deal works for both parties in the end as it should. For me, I don't need to sell any of my extras, but if someone wants to buy for a fair price, I'm ok re-homing the equipment. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by snagy2000

[T_Golf_23]

I see OBO on a lot of offerings…. I also see many use FIRM on their listings…. When I see FIRM…. It’s understood - take it or leave it….. 

 

does it make more sense to uses the word firm or indicate same in listing. It may decrease unwanted interactions. 
 

or are firm prices still seeing low ball offers come in? 

[third-times-a-charm]

1 hour ago, snagy2000 said:

I love when I get the low-ball offer, say no it's listed at a fair price, then get the follow up "thought you'd consider coming down since it's been posted for a couple weeks" type response. Happens on almost every listing of mine which doesn't sell quickly. If the lowballers would stop and think how the sellers are paying fees and shipping is included in most cases, they're actually getting it at a fair price and the deal works for both parties in the end as it should. For me, I don't need to sell any of my extras, but if someone wants to buy for a fair price, I'm ok re-homing the equipment. 

 

Lowballers on new posts are one thing, but I think there's some give and take in regards to weeks-old postings. If you dont need the money or dont need to sell then fine but at the stage of several weeks going by on a listing - I dont feel it's outlandish to send someone a PM offer for like 20% off their listing price just to see if they want to move it. I actually get lots of stuff on the BST as a buyer this way by sending offers on old old BST posts. You wanna sell something to me? I'm always a buyer at the right price. If not, no biggie, you can keep it.

[larciel]

as a seller, it always helps when buyers ask nicely when offering a lower price. 

 

it's free market. supply and demand.  Recently, I've been selling on ebay more because I know I'm getting more exposure than here. and for eBay listing is free. 

[NJBigFish22]

I have a question for those that sell on here.  When you pay to list an item in the BST, is that for a certain period of time or is it until the irem sells or pulled by seller?

[Brooks_Cupcake]

19 minutes ago, NJBigFish22 said:

I have a question for those that sell on here.  When you pay to list an item in the BST, is that for a certain period of time or is it until the irem sells or pulled by seller?

1 week my dude.

[mister2cool]

I had done a lot of buying and selling on BST prior to the platform change and definitely noticed a huge shift and it is not just lately. It goes back 5-6 years when GolfWRX was a place where euthenists more or less trade things we want to try or stuff that aren't easily found. Then came a flood of newbies who wanted everything for nothing and BST was flooded with newbies who paid to sell for ridiculous prices thinking they are saving ebay fees. That when I started to wind down activities. Plus new equipment has become far too expensive for old timers like myself. no much buying means not much selling either. It just wasn't worth the time anymore.  

Edited August 10, 2022 by mister2cool

[jlevitt9]

8 hours ago, Hookasaurus Rex said:

The WTB forum, also known as the give it to me free forum. I had never had a good experience on there until my last sale a few days ago, which was fair to both sides.

👋👋👋🤣