US Women’s Amateur - Chambers Bay

[paul_jam]

Thought it was going to get interesting when Saki dropped consecutive holes...but then she went on an absolute tear to close it out.  Impressive!

[Lobby]

I found myself getting annoyed at all the weird bounces around the greens.   In some greens there was a slope on the right of the hole AND on the left. 

Seemed unfair.

[NMBob]

On 8/12/2022 at 11:03 PM, So_Cal said:

I’ve played Chambers many times.  I like the browned out conditions.  It’s fun just like Scottish links.  Aside from #12 the fescue greens were good.  They played firm and fast and rolled true.  Sure it wasn’t perfect for the Open but it never is.  The back 9 was one of the best in recent history.  

the greens were a complete disaster for the US open.    And, specifically said that downhill puts were impossible due to the conditions of the greens.  They were too bumpy to stay online going downhill, and so so fast you couldn't hit hard to make it stay on line.  A total disaster.   See all the golfers ripping the greens in the old article.   https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2015/6/22/8821613/us-open-course-chambers-bay-greens-criticism

Edited August 15, 2022 by NMBob

[Ghostwedge]

Both girls impressed me when they got caught on #1 with that severe slope left and down the hill they went but recovered nicely.

My first time playing it, pin was front left and of course I went for it.  Ball rolled back to my feet twice before I figured out that's almost a full wedge shot to back up there. lol

Congrats to all the players, lifetime memories playing Chambers Bay for a USGA championship.

[woahnelly]

4 hours ago, Supermilo said:

Baba did a bit of online learning in English just prior to the tournament... the caddy on the other hand "spoke" with her with "golf sign language" -- for example when deciding how to hit the putt, caddy made the sign of a hole (circling his hands to liken a cup) and rudimentary sign language whether to hit it inside, outside the cup etc... 

 

As well, some Japanese certainly know how to speak rudimentary English (albeit "acceptable" to the Western standards)... However, it's not in their culture to speak publicly as they want to be "perfect" before speaking to you in English... perfect example? Hideki 😁  (who might be going to LIV, sadly 🙄).  Hideki certainly knows a bit more English that he lets on, I'm 100% sure of that 

 

Good video on the PGA channel about the upcoming Japanese players like Nakajima and Kanaya as they speak good English, the Japanese national team coach is a Westerner (or Aussie) and is trying to make that improvement amongst the young golfers. 

 

[HMHS]

15 minutes ago, woahnelly said:

 

Good video on the PGA channel about the upcoming Japanese players like Nakajima and Kanaya as they speak good English, the Japanese national team coach is a Westerner (or Aussie) and is trying to make that improvement amongst the young golfers. 

 

Yes, Aussie coach -- he's emphasizing "less rote" repetition amongst the Japanese pros...  I think it was in the same video where the narrator mentioned these 2 needed to speak good English as they themselves know it's important esp if they wanna play in the US full time...

 

 Addendum to the question asked earlier in the thread on Ms Baba's English/communication with her caddy:  (from golfdigest US - not japan... https://www.golfdigest.com/story/saki-baba-us-womens-amateur-chambers-bay)

 

The pair was randomly matched up at the beginning of the week and developed an effective system to combat the language barrier: Baba and Brushert used hand-signaling and yardage-book illustrations to communicate.

“We've gotten good with the sign language,” Brushert said. “And I'm an amazing artist on the yardage book with stick figures. I'm a good stick figure drawer. I just kind of tell her where to put it, and yeah, she's done the rest. She's amazing.”

 

Baba’s summer in the U.S. would not have been possible if it weren’t for the change in amateur golf rules that came in January, allowing the teenager to take on 12 sponsors to help fund her initial trip to Pine Needles. Tetsuya, Baba’s father, told Golf Digest Japan that the trips would have required him to borrow money if it weren’t for the companies that were willing to take a chance on his daughter. Wise investments, as it were.

 

 

[Tasals]

Commentators were better but still said some absolutely stupid stuff. Pressel was notably bad calling players aiming too far left and right constantly despite them hitting draws and high cuts into very hard greens. Chambers Bay despite being a neat course (I enjoyed it when I played it pre covid and it was better than the US Open) but it didnt seem set for another big event, it hides driving distance discrepancies well enough, but those approach shots with a lower ball flight really expose the shorter/drawers and Baba dominated with a really nice high ball flight, she was nearly 25 feet higher on most shots outside wedge range absolutely a force to be reckoned with around there, and US Open venues - small fades and a high ball flight lookout.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Tasals

[Route 66]

On 8/13/2022 at 5:20 PM, NJBigFish22 said:

 

I see both of your points, and I agree to some extent about honesty, like if 1 of them hosel rocketed a shot into the ocean, I don’t want them to say great shot.  

 

There was 1 during the broadcast today and the girl didn’t get over the false front and I think it was Pressel that said that is a really poor shot.  The girl is seventeen and it’s not like she was trying to hit it there, she hit it bad, like all of us have.  I think the better way to say it was a poor shot was something like “in that situation, especially in match play you need to give yourself a chance or your opponent will gain a little momentum.”  This still describes the shot wasn’t good, but it isn’t as negative, like you would do with a pro like Lydia Ko or Minjee Lee.  I guarantee you put me on TV even at 45, someone is probably getting drilled by me on accident.

I see what you are saying about Pressel's comment.  However, that's one reason I really enjoy listening to Pressel.  She doesn't typically appear to feel the need to sugarcoat everything like so many commentators routinely do.  She calls it like it is, which is refreshing.  These young ladies, who are the best amateurs in the world, are out there playing for a national championship.  So, the bar is pretty high.

[NJBigFish22]

20 minutes ago, Route 66 said:

These young ladies, who are the best amateurs in the world, are out there playing for a national championship.  So, the bar is pretty high.

Agree they are some of the best amateurs in the world, but they are still young.  A lot depends on the situation, as well, like on Saturday Baba is on her way to a 7&6 win, and I believe Shoemaker probably felt horrible already by getting beat, she didn’t need more negativity.  Before you say it, I know the players don’t hear what is being said.

 

Heck my 17 year old son is pretty strong minded, but even he can get emotional if someone overly criticizes him a lot when he is playing lacrosse or hockey, and trust me, NBC isn’t broadcasting it.  

[So_Cal]

8 hours ago, NMBob said:

the greens were a complete disaster for the US open.    And, specifically said that downhill puts were impossible due to the conditions of the greens.  They were too bumpy to stay online going downhill, and so so fast you couldn't hit hard to make it stay on line.  A total disaster.   See all the golfers ripping the greens in the old article.   https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2015/6/22/8821613/us-open-course-chambers-bay-greens-criticism

I’ve played over 100 rounds at Chambers and the fescue greens were fine, with the exception of #12 sometimes.  The course was designed for fescue greens with firmness as the main defense.  Look at the final leaderboard.  Course was so impossible that Oosthuizen was -10 his last 34 holes. 😂 The course showcased the best players.  Not buying the weak sauce from the guys who couldn’t cut it.  Most of them have zero majors.

Edited August 16, 2022 by So_Cal

[NMBob]

1 minute ago, So_Cal said:

I’ve played over 100 rounds at Chambers and the fescue greens were fine, with the exception of #12 sometimes.  The course was designed for fescue greens with firmness as the main defense.  Look at the final leaderboard.  The course showcased the best players.  Not buying the weak sauce 

 

The weak sauce of numerous pga players quoted  lol?

 

Let me offer what is not obvious to you, the  only rounds that matter about the us open, are the rounds played the weekend of the us open. You should note that is when the usga is in charge and not the local muni folks in charge lol, as when you play.

 

You can disagree, but i doubt you played the us open that weekend as the pros in the us open did.    And, i don't need to rehash the massive long post discussion from back then about playing on crap  and how much is luck and does it balance out over 4 days...  If you play on the worst course in the country, and then a top player still wins, that doesn't mean it still isn't the worst course in the country lol

 

Feel free to google worst greens in us open history and chambers bay is pretty much always on the list.  The quotes of many players are available, but yea, you don't have to drink it base on you playing it at other times not setup by the usga for the us open that one year....

[So_Cal]

3 minutes ago, NMBob said:

 

The weak sauce of numerous pga players quoted  lol?

 

Let me offer what is not obvious to you, the  only rounds that matter about the us open, are the rounds played the weekend of the us open. You should note that is when the usga is in charge and not the local muni folks in charge lol, as when you play.

 

You can disagree, but i doubt you played the us open that weekend as the pros in the us open did.    And, i don't need to rehash the massive long post discussion from back then about playing on crap  and how much is luck and does it balance out over 4 days...  If you play on the worst course in the country, and then a top player still wins, that doesn't mean it still isn't the worst course in the country lol

 

Feel free to google worst greens in us open history and chambers bay is pretty much always on the list.  The quotes of many players are available, but yea, you don't have to drink it base on you playing it at other times not setup by the usga for the us open that one year....

Keep quoting Poulter.  The guy has zero majors 

[NMBob]

there are many, not just poulter.   even the article in my first post quoted several,.   Google other articles and you find more.  apparently you don't want to really find that and  know that.  good night. 

 

edit:  Let me add, that the greens were in great shape for this womens amateur, and the winner was a incredibly good putter.   But guess what, if it was the crap greens the us mens open had years back she had played on, no one would no what a great putter she is.  That would be a tragedy and a sin against the players. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by NMBob

[naj959]

Don't see the big deal about calling a bad shot a bad shot. The world has gone soft. We're talking about the top amateurs in the world, not an 8 year old playing PGA Junior League.

[North Texas]

7 hours ago, naj959 said:

Don't see the big deal about calling a bad shot a bad shot. The world has gone soft. We're talking about the top amateurs in the world, not an 8 year old playing PGA Junior League.

 

When it comes to calling bad shots, I think you have to take into account the calibre of players we're talking about. Yes, they are the top amateurs in the world but they are not the top professionals in the world. Nor are they the "less than top" professionals in the world. 

 

Besides that, a ball hit slightly off-line isn't necessarily a bad shot. It's just slightly off-line and on Chambers Bay that can makes shots look worse than what they really were. I think the announcers sometimes didn't take that into account. 

[Oh Hi Carl]

I thought Pressel did pretty well.  In the semis, she let on that she was clearly irritated by Annabel Wilson's loud and highly involved caddie.  She didn't say it, but it was clear.  Maybe that's just not the style that she wants in a caddie, and the other announcers, especially Kay, defended him by saying that Wilson's college coach said that's exactly the kind of caddie she needs.  I thought Pressel was going to harp on it some more (she made two comments that suggested she didn't like his style), but then she backed off, which I thought was good.  In the past, I bet she would've continued with the criticism.  Even when he gave Wilson terrible advice on I think was 15 when Chun hit it in that deep bunker to the left and then he told Wilson to hit it left of the pin and she went in the same bunker.  Pressel let it go, but I was waiting for her to slam him.  It was actually Kay at that point who said something about him telling her to aim left.   

[sandpounder]

It is really a p***y move to down a golf course because the golfer does not like the lines the ball is taking.  Speaks to the spoiled child within the golfer.  I caddied & played Pine Valley and that course was trashed by the weaker golfers as well.  Makes me laugh, because the truly great golfers do not resort to "Poulter talk".  Chambers is a great course.

[dan360]

Not to hijack off the original thread intent---some great play by those girls this week on a tough course---but with the greens now fully consistent poa they are rolling very true, holding lines, and can be FAST.   They were previously, mostly fescue with a small percentage of bent.  Some of the greens--12 in particular, were 30% bent, and what ended up becoming 30% poa 40% fescue.   The poa invaded a few more and eventually showed up all over every green. 

 

Too much to get into here, but the USGA cut back the nitrogen fertilizer months prior and stopped watering, relying on 'mother nature' to do her thing, and she didn't.  Fescue goes dormant in the dry and stays that way.  Bent does its thing, and poa sprouts little heads in a last gasp at finding moisture.  Temporary watering just makes it worse.   They also groomed and brushed/shaved the greens prior to the tournament for "uniformity" aka "makes them FAST" but Chambers already had fast greens, now presto they have superspeedways that are rock hard, slick as snot, and every once in a while contain little white seed pods.....  Hard to see normally but high definition, macro, different colors, and loud voices makes for drama.  The giant fire at the Narrows Marina didn't help make her look great, either. 

 

You can take the final round 1-75 and conflate it to who flew in on their private jets, played a couple of the gimmick holes for social media content, loaded up and went to spend the rest of their pre-tournament time at Sahalee, vs. those who actually played multiple full practice rounds.

 

Compare that with who complained the loudest, and it is quite similar.....

 

Hijack over, maybe they'll come back again and show everyone just how great it can be.

Edited August 18, 2022 by dan360

[elwhippy]

How is this joke of a course on any championship rota? Totally over designed. Watched some of the matches on YouTube and the bounces were unfair, not unlucky but unfair. Turn it back into farmland.

[scotee]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:44 PM, dan360 said:

Not to hijack off the original thread intent---some great play by those girls this week on a tough course---but with the greens now fully consistent poa they are rolling very true, holding lines, and can be FAST.   They were previously, mostly fescue with a small percentage of bent.  Some of the greens--12 in particular, were 30% bent, and what ended up becoming 30% poa 40% fescue.   The poa invaded a few more and eventually showed up all over every green. 

 

Too much to get into here, but the USGA cut back the nitrogen fertilizer months prior and stopped watering, relying on 'mother nature' to do her thing, and she didn't.  Fescue goes dormant in the dry and stays that way.  Bent does its thing, and poa sprouts little heads in a last gasp at finding moisture.  Temporary watering just makes it worse.   They also groomed and brushed/shaved the greens prior to the tournament for "uniformity" aka "makes them FAST" but Chambers already had fast greens, now presto they have superspeedways that are rock hard, slick as snot, and every once in a while contain little white seed pods.....  Hard to see normally but high definition, macro, different colors, and loud voices makes for drama.  The giant fire at the Narrows Marina didn't help make her look great, either. 

 

You can take the final round 1-75 and conflate it to who flew in on their private jets, played a couple of the gimmick holes for social media content, loaded up and went to spend the rest of their pre-tournament time at Sahalee, vs. those who actually played multiple full practice rounds.

 

Compare that with who complained the loudest, and it is quite similar.....

 

Hijack over, maybe they'll come back again and show everyone just how great it can be.

 

I played it the first year it opened. There was no poa and because it was new the greens were hard but slow which was a weird thing. They felt like they should be fast but not being mowed close I had a hard time getting the ball to the hole. I have been told that British Open links courses are much the same with the fairways almost as fast as the greens. It was a fun day and a real hike for this old fat guy!  I was also at the US Open in 2015 and that was a workout as well.  Glad they fixed the greens. Should be a great course.

[sratacik]

Played Chambers Bay this past May and can't say enough good things about. Happy it's getting another national championship...definitely got an undeserved reputation after the men's open.

[Ghostwedge]

On 8/19/2022 at 6:36 AM, elwhippy said:

How is this joke of a course on any championship rota? Totally over designed. Watched some of the matches on YouTube and the bounces were unfair, not unlucky but unfair. Turn it back into farmland.

I wouldn't want to be a cow traversing those hills. 

Oh wait..... it used to be a quarry\mine. Farmland...pffft.