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Input on two itineraries: RCD + Scotland or purely Scotland (is RCD worth foregoing Carnoustie?)


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Hello,

 

I wanted to ask for some input on a few itineraries I'm thinking of putting together in late 2023.  I have a confirmed tee time for Muirfield on November 2, 2023 and I am planning around this.  I learned that there is availability for group to Royal County Down in very late October.  I'm running into an issue because I don't see availability to play Carnoustie if I play Royal County Down.  Has anyone played RCD and is it worth foregoing Carnoustie?  

 

Itinerary 1:

 

Royal County Down

travel to Edinburgh (I would have a full day to travel between RCD and Muirfield)

Muirfield

Turnberry

Royal Dornoch

walk St Andrews Old Course on Sunday

 

Itinerary 2 (stay in Scotland):

 

Carnoustie

Muirfield

Turnberry

Royal Dornboch

walk St Andrews Old Course on Sunday

 

I'd really like some input from those of you that've been there.

 

Thanks 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, mci711 said:

RCD is quite a bit better than Carnoustie in my opinion. But not worth the hassle in that first itinerary. I'd play North Berwick over Carnoustie though, which I am sure is a minority opinion. 

There are many in Fife or East Lothian better than Carnoustie. I’m glad that I’ve played Carnoustie, but it’s overrated in my opinion.

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This is a trip with my Father and future Brother-in-law.  I really doubt that my Father would go back as I’ve been wanting to do this for a long time, and I want it done before he’s unable to walk some of the courses.  If RCD is as good as people say, I’m ok foregoing Royal Dornoch and Carnoustie even..  it would be RCD, Muirfield, Turnberry.  
 

I know the least about Royal Dornoch.  How close is RCD to RD?  
 

I’ve also seen a few recommendations for  North Berwick.

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Also, I generally use Ship Sticks in the US.  This may be a dumb question, but is that not an option in Ireland/Scotland?  

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1 minute ago, swo83 said:

This is a trip with my Father and future Brother-in-law.  I really doubt that my Father would go back as I’ve been wanting to do this for a long time, and I want it done before he’s unable to walk some of the courses.  If RCD is as good as people say, I’m ok foregoing Royal Dornoch and Carnoustie even..  it would be RCD, Muirfield, Turnberry.  
 

I know the least about Royal Dornoch.  How close is RCD to RD?  
 

I’ve also seen a few recommendations for  North Berwick.

 

They are in different countries.. Royal Dornach is all the way north and basically couldn't be further from the other courses. Turnberry is west Scotland, Murifield is east, RD is very north and RCD is in Northern Ireland. You are covering a ton of ground. Would need a few days just for traveling. 

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Just now, mci711 said:

 

They are in different countries.. Royal Dornach is all the way north and basically couldn't be further from the other courses. Turnberry is west Scotland, Murifield is east, RD is very north and RCD is in Northern Ireland. You are covering a ton of ground. Would need a few days just for traveling. 

 

If building off of Muirfield and RCD is a must play.. I'd fly into EDI after RCD. Travel to Muirfield, play there and North Berwick and then get in the queue for St Andrews/play in Fife. 

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Sorry, I didn’t mean how close is RCD is to RD in terms of distance.  I know they’re in different countries.  They seem pretty close in terms of world rankings, I’m just curious how much “better” RCD really is.  Scotland it relatively small and I’m ok with a five hour commute if it’s for a once in a lifetime experience.  I have a day built into the RCD and Muirfield itinerary to negotiate the small hopper flight from Northern Ireland to Edinburg… that’s not an issue.  I guess I’m just trying to figure out how “great” RCD is.

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I could forego RCD/RD and do:

 

Carnoustie

Muirfield

Turnberry

North Berwick 

 

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You seem pretty bent on doing this despite the advice you’re getting. 
 
Is it possible? Yes. Will it be a pain in the butt travel wise? Yes. 

Could you do an amazing bucket list trip with far less hassle? Also yes. 
 

But if your main goal is to hit as many top 10 courses in the world then you do you. 

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1 hour ago, mci711 said:

 

If building off of Muirfield and RCD is a must play.. I'd fly into EDI after RCD. Travel to Muirfield, play there and North Berwick and then get in the queue for St Andrews/play in Fife. 

 

Agreed if Muirfield and RCD are the 2 priorities. I'd do RCD first, then fly into Edinburgh. But then ditch the Northern (Royal Dornoch) and Western (Turnberry) legs of the trip and focus on East Lothian - could build off of Muirfield and also hit North Berwick, Gullane, Renaissance. Then as you said not a bad drive up to St. Andrews area which brings a bunch of other courses into play. 

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1 hour ago, swo83 said:

Sorry, I didn’t mean how close is RCD is to RD in terms of distance.  I know they’re in different countries.  They seem pretty close in terms of world rankings, I’m just curious how much “better” RCD really is.  Scotland it relatively small and I’m ok with a five hour commute if it’s for a once in a lifetime experience.  I have a day built into the RCD and Muirfield itinerary to negotiate the small hopper flight from Northern Ireland to Edinburg… that’s not an issue.  I guess I’m just trying to figure out how “great” RCD is.

 

I've played all the great ones in Scotland and Ireland/N. Ireland- as well as a number of others- and rank my Top 3 over there as follows: 1) Royal Dornoch, 2) Ballybunion, 3) RCD

 

All three are bucket-list, IMO.

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2 hours ago, swo83 said:

Sorry, I didn’t mean how close is RCD is to RD in terms of distance.  I know they’re in different countries.  They seem pretty close in terms of world rankings, I’m just curious how much “better” RCD really is.  Scotland it relatively small and I’m ok with a five hour commute if it’s for a once in a lifetime experience.  I have a day built into the RCD and Muirfield itinerary to negotiate the small hopper flight from Northern Ireland to Edinburg… that’s not an issue.  I guess I’m just trying to figure out how “great” RCD is.

With logistics, I would do RCD on another trip. However, if you’re dead set on RCD, here’s an itinerary that could work for you:

 

OPTION I

Day 1

Fly into Dublin and play The Island, (20 mins from the airport) then drive 1.5 hrs to Newcastle and stay the night

Day 2 

Play RCD then drive to Belfast and fly to Glasgow airport then drive an hour to Turnberry and stay the night.

Day 3 

Play Turnberry then drive either drive to Gullane (2.5 hrs) Stay the night

Day4

Play Muirfield then drive to Dornoch (4 hrs) OR stay another night in Gullane.

Day 5 

Play North Berwick if you stay in Gullane, OR Dornoch if you drove there. Then drive to St. Andrews (2 hrs from Turnberry) (3.5 hrs from Dornoch) stay the night in St. Andrews.

Day 6 

Walk TOC then drive to Edinburgh (1 hr) 

Day 7

Fly home

 

OPTION II

Day 1

Fly into Edinburgh direct from a US city, DO NOT CONNECT THROUGH LONDON!!!! If your only option is to connect through London then use Shipsticks to send your clubs. Drive to Gullane and play North Berwick. Stay in Gullane. Make sure to apply for the 48 hour ballot for TOC on their app.

Day 2

Play Muirfield, eat lunch (coat & tie required) then drive to St. Andrews and stay the night. Make sure to apply for the 48 hour ballot for TOC

Day 3

If you win the ballot play TOC, if not play The New Course. If you win the ballot for the following day stay in St. Andrews. If not then after your round walk TOC then drive to Dornoch (3.5 hrs) stay the night

Day 4 

Play Dornoch then drive to Turnberry (5 hrs)

Day 5 

Play Turnberry and stay another night.
Day 6

Play either Troon or Prestwick then drive to Edinburgh (1.5 hrs) stay the night.

Day 7 Fly home
 

OPTION III

Day 1

Fly into Edinburgh direct from a US city, DO NOT CONNECT THROUGH LONDON!!!! If your only option is to connect through London then use Shipsticks to send your clubs. Drive to Gullane and play North Berwick. Stay in Gullane. Make sure to apply for the 48 hour ballot for TOC on their app.

Day 2

Play Muirfield, eat lunch (coat & tie required) then drive to St. Andrews and stay the night. Make sure to apply for the 48 hour ballot for TOC

Day 3

If you win the ballot play TOC, if not play The New Course. If you win the ballot for the following day stay in St. Andrews.

Day 4 

If you win the ballot play TOC, if not play Carnoustie or The Jubilee course then drive to Turnberry (3 hrs)

Day 5 

Play Turnberry and stay another night.
Day 6

Play either Troon or Prestwick then drive to Edinburgh (1.5 hrs) stay the night.

Day 7 Fly home

 

I would choose the third option for convenience and less travel, but you could do any of the options depending on your preferences.

`

 

Edited by hammergolf
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2 hours ago, swo83 said:

Also, I generally use Ship Sticks in the US.  This may be a dumb question, but is that not an option in Ireland/Scotland?  

It is, and right now highly recommended. 

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I wouldn’t worry much or at all about world rankings. Golf courses are very subjective and either way you go you will be playing great courses.
 

I caddy at a course where members make trips like this yearly. There seems to be zero consensus on what’s the best course. One guy claims Carnoustie is his favorite. He also s*** his career low there. I’m sure that’s not a coincidence. I do hear Royal Dornoch getting mentioned a lot as a favorite. Matter of fact, the guy I was with today is a member despite living in the Midwest and getting there about once every 2 years. I’ve had a lot of people tell me they really enjoyed N Berwick and it’s a course that could play every day. 
 

You really can’t go wrong. I would plan the trip around the overall experience and less about following a list. I think finding a local pub or eatery after a great round is much more enjoyable than a long car ride. 

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The OP is getting great advice. His proposed itinerary is a greatest hits of Ireland/Scotland golf courses with no regard to practicallity.

I just got from a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Ireland and I think a good rule of thumb is that if the driving distance between clubs is longer than the round of golf, it is too long.

Using this metric, RCD and RD should be knocked off this trip. I agree with @hammergolf that the trip should be built around practical distances of prominent golf centers

 

AYRESHIRE

Turnberry*

Troon*

Prestwick*

 

EAST LOTHIAN

Muirfield*

North Berwick*

Gullane

Renaissance 

 

FIFE

Kingsbarns

Carnoustie*
TOC*

If you are going to insist on RD, it is a 5 hour drive from anywhere else, you should include
Castle Stuart

Nairn

Skibo Castle

 

Our 2023 Scotland trip (*) is focused around 3 golf centers and we are leaving the five hour drive to RD for another trip...

 

Edited by njlam
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Where are you staying? RCD is I believe a masterpiece but your extra travelling would be a logistical nightmare. The roads across Scotland are slow and boy do they love their speed cameras. 

 

I would add in North Berwick or Gullane No 1, St. Andrews New, or try and get a deal for Kingsbarns. Skibo Castle is members and guests so don't bother.

 

Renaissance is hideously expensive, a long slog and massively overrated. Western Gailes is good, not great and Prestwick is an acquired taste.

 

Do you own good thermals, a proper set of waterproofs, a waterproof bag and sturdy shoes? If not you may need them as the Scottish climate is fickle to say the least. 

 

One thing to be aware of is the Scots love of moving to playing off mats and forward tees come 1st November. 

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I've played all the courses on both of of your itineraries, but not on any single trip. There is no way I'd do either of your itineraries as they have to much driving. I like the suggestions made by Hammergolf in his first post. There is so much great golf in each region of Scotland, there is no reason to galavant around the country to tick off courses from any " best of" list. Since you already have a tee time at Muirfield, I would build an itinerary around that. Either stay in East Lothian or play a few rounds in East Lothian and a few in Fife. There's no reason to do any more driving than that in order to have a world class trip of a lifetime. North Berwick is a " must play" and is right next to Muirfield. Gullane #1 and#2 are also next to Muirfield and would be my next choices. Other good choices in East Lothian are Dunbar, Renaissance, Luffness and Kilspindie. 

 

If you want to cross the firth of forth into Fife and don't have a tee time on the Old course you can try the Old Course ballot, but also play the New course and Jubilee. Fife has so many other excellent choices including Kingsbarns, Elie, Crail, Lundin, Leven and Ladybank. If you really be want to play Carnoustie, it's not too far from St Andrews so you could easily include it

 

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Hi all, thank you for the input.  It’s definitely adjusted my expectations.  Muirfield and RCD are musts on this trip but I think that I have a decent itinerary thanks to you input now.  
 

im thinking now hitting RCD at the end of the trip.  Is this more reasonable?

 

Carnoustie 

St Andrews area (ballot or play local course)

Muirfield

Either Turnberry or stay in area and play North Berwick

travel day (Glasgow to Belfast if Turnberry)

RCD

 

Lots of great advice and thank you for the time put into the itineraries.  

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1 hour ago, sabram said:

I've played all the courses on both of of your itineraries, but not on any single trip. There is no way I'd do either of your itineraries as they have to much driving. I like the suggestions made by Hammergolf in his first post. There is so much great golf in each region of Scotland, there is no reason to galavant around the country to tick off courses from any " best of" list. Since you already have a tee time at Muirfield, I would build an itinerary around that. Either stay in East Lothian or play a few rounds in East Lothian and a few in Fife. There's no reason to do any more driving than that in order to have a world class trip of a lifetime. North Berwick is a " must play" and is right next to Muirfield. Gullane #1 and#2 are also next to Muirfield and would be my next choices. Other good choices in East Lothian are Dunbar, Renaissance, Luffness and Kilspindie. 

 

If you want to cross the firth of forth into Fife and don't have a tee time on the Old course you can try the Old Course ballot, but also play the New course and Jubilee. Fife has so many other excellent choices including Kingsbarns, Elie, Crail, Lundin, Leven and Ladybank. If you really be want to play Carnoustie, it's not too far from St Andrews so you could easily include it

 

Ditto.. I can not understand why golfers want to spend so much time in a car. The more time you spend in the car the less time you get to spend in the pub.  I'll be in Scotland in a few weeks and can compare Carnoustie to RCD which i have played. But unless it is a 2 weeks trip i would not want to play both in the same itinerary. 

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17 hours ago, swo83 said:

Hi all, thank you for the input.  It’s definitely adjusted my expectations.  Muirfield and RCD are musts on this trip but I think that I have a decent itinerary thanks to you input now.  
 

im thinking now hitting RCD at the end of the trip.  Is this more reasonable?

 

Carnoustie 

St Andrews area (ballot or play local course)

Muirfield

Either Turnberry or stay in area and play North Berwick

travel day (Glasgow to Belfast if Turnberry)

RCD

 

Lots of great advice and thank you for the time put into the itineraries.  

Much better logistically but still playing great courses. I’d vote Turnberry over North Berwick but you really couldn’t go wrong either way.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Interesting.

 

One thing you need to really think about is; what days are you actually allowed to play on these mentioned courses?! Can you get a tee time on the desired days?

 

To me Scottish golf must is stay in St Andrews for a couple days and play the Old; the rest can fill in around that!

 

 

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I appreciate the input everyone.  I ended up altering the trip and adjusting expectations a bit, going with a touring company.  I’ll leave Ireland for another trip.  I’ll play Kingsbarns/New Course/Old Course (confirmed)/Carnoustie/ and then choose between Royal Dornoch or Turnberry for the last round with a touring company.  
 

I had confirmed tee times with Muirfield and RCD (I know it’s in another country but a journey that I was willing to take) but thankfully was able to adjust when I learned that I had the confirmed with the Old Clurse through this authorised dealer.

 

I’ve received some great insights and messages on RD and Turnberry in other posts but I’m still really having difficulty finalizing that last leg. 

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      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies

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