Starting Point Question for 15yo Son

[Mikos317]

Happy to see this forum as my son has been playing recreationally for the last 1 year.  He is currently 15 and entering HS this year (in NJ).  He has recently become very interested in golf and we've had him in a few group lessons but nothing significant.  He's probably shot about 10 full rounds of golf and shoots in the high 80s-low 90s.  He's a hockey player in the winter - both travel and HS.  Time to practice will be a factor but he's looking just to keep playing and improving.  Hoping to maybe play some in college down the road.

 

I want to do right by him and was looking for some guidance.  Happy to do the research but was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.  Thank you in advance.

 

 

[kekoa]

4 hours ago, Mikos317 said:

Happy to see this forum as my son has been playing recreationally for the last 1 year.  He is currently 15 and entering HS this year (in NJ).  He has recently become very interested in golf and we've had him in a few group lessons but nothing significant.  He's probably shot about 10 full rounds of golf and shoots in the high 80s-low 90s.  He's a hockey player in the winter - both travel and HS.  Time to practice will be a factor but he's looking just to keep playing and improving.  Hoping to maybe play some in college down the road.

 

I want to do right by him and was looking for some guidance.  Happy to do the research but was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.  Thank you in advance.

 

 

At 15 yrs of age, 'most' kids who plan to play any type of college golf are already accomplished tournament players and shoot in the 60's to 70's.  If he has not had any formal instruction, I would start there and he is going to have to work very hard on his game for the next year.  Probably practice/play 5 days a week.  The instructor you chose will also be able to guide you and offer input as to your kid's chances.  If he can consistently start shooting in the 70's from 6,500+ yards then he may have a chance to play some college golf.  It seems like hockey is his sport and it would be next to impossible to juggle both at a high level. 

 

I'm not sure exactly what kind of guidance you are looking for, but I hope this helps.  

[SE Gamer]

On 9/2/2022 at 1:04 PM, kekoa said:

At 15 yrs of age, 'most' kids who plan to play any type of college golf are already accomplished tournament players and shoot in the 60's to 70's.  If he has not had any formal instruction, I would start there and he is going to have to work very hard on his game for the next year.  Probably practice/play 5 days a week.  The instructor you chose will also be able to guide you and offer input as to your kid's chances.  If he can consistently start shooting in the 70's from 6,500+ yards then he may have a chance to play some college golf.  It seems like hockey is his sport and it would be next to impossible to juggle both at a high level. 

 

I'm not sure exactly what kind of guidance you are looking for, but I hope this helps.  

 

I think the above is a good target. Albeit a pretty broad stroke. Part of it will also depend on what level he'd like to compete at. At a top tier school, he's really going to need to put in a ton of work. But if his goal is to just play some golf in college, there's plenty of opportunity in the lower division schools. 

For grins I went and looked up last years scores from an invitational my college plays in each year (D3 school). Out of a field of 75, 40% of the players shot at or above 80. Sure, it's maybe not as glamorous or prestigious. But it's still college golf and enjoyable competition. 

Still going to require a lot of work to bring his scores down from the 80s/90s. The fact that hockey seems to have been his sport for quite a while may be helping his learning curve. But I agree he may have to give up hockey if he really wants to chase the golf dream.

[DevilDog]

I agree with Kekoa.  He's behind the curve compared to other kids his age that are competitive.  He needs formal lessons with a quality instructor now.  He also needs to start playing junior tournaments next spring if possible. Only about 1% of high school golfers play collegiately at any level.  It's tough to get on a team and tougher to stay on one.  Coaches at college level get a paycheck based on how their players perform so they drive them pretty hard.  

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, DevilDog said:

I agree with Kekoa.  He's behind the curve compared to other kids his age that are competitive.  He needs formal lessons with a quality instructor now.  He also needs to start playing junior tournaments next spring if possible. Only about 1% of high school golfers play collegiately at any level.  It's tough to get on a team and tougher to stay on one.  Coaches at college level get a paycheck based on how their players perform so they drive them pretty hard.  

 

Our school played a 9 hole match yesterday and won by 50 strokes.  Played in 4somes with our 1 & 2 paired with their 1 & 2.  The discrepancy in junior tournament golfers (our 1-5 bags) is so wide compared to a HS team whose don't.  Just the wide gap in distance off the tee is huge.  My kid is pretty long and hits 3i 250.  He was hitting his 3i past these kids drivers.  The opponents fathers were amazed while in the back of my mind I am thinking "these guys have never seen good junior golf".  

 

Moral of the story, at 15 to have a legit chance at college better be carrying it 280+ with driver and able to shoot low 80's high 70's from 6800 yards +.

Edited October 12, 2022 by heavy_hitter

[DevilDog]

You are correct heavy_hitter and also need to have an excellent wedge game and be able to putt well.  My son thought he was a good wedge player until he played his first collegiate event.  Found out his wedge game was really average so he's been putting in a lot of extra time to develop that.  Distance-wise, he's one of the longer players playing college.  Clubhead speed at 126 with a driver and 182 mph ball speed.  But, all are 300 plus total yardage at collegiate level.  Have to be able to get it out there as you said.  

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

40 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

Our school played a 9 hole match yesterday and won by 50 strokes.  Played in 4somes with our 1 & 2 paired with their 1 & 2.  The discrepancy in junior tournament golfers (our 1-5) bags is so wide compared to a HS team whose don't.  Just the wide gap in distance off the tee is huge.  My kid is pretty long and hits 3i 250.  He was hitting his 3i past these kids drivers.  The opponents fathers were amazed while in the back of my mind I am thinking "these guys have never seen good junior golf".  

 

Moral of the story, at 15 to have a legit chance at college better be carrying it 280+ with driver and able to shoot low 80's high 70's from 6800 yards +.

Couldn't agree more.  Son was a late bloomer but started every match and tournament after his first one freshman year.  Some of the sophomores lied about their qualifying scores  and it was obviously that first tournament.

 

There were kids that never played in HS and always thought they had a right to play.  The coach would send them out with the 1&2.  My son and top kid during his HS career.

 

The coach was basically telling this kid this is the level you need to be at.  Stop having your parents text, call or sit at practice begging for play time.

Beat these kids and you can have all the time you want.

 

My son and his friend.  Played junior golf through out HS.  If you're not getting in those reps during spring and summer.  Natural talent can only do so much.

 

To @DevilDogpoint.  Freshman year for my son was 2017-2018.  We had one kid go college on a college scholarship.  Son graduated 2021.  He was next one.

 

That is a lot of kids.

[DevilDog]

TripleBogeysrbetter, my son is the first in the history of his school to go to college on golf scholarship.  A LOT of players passed through before him as you've stated about your son's school.  Only about 1% of high school players play on a college team counting all colleges.  It's a highly competitive arena.  

 

Even if you make a college team, you may not make the top 5 that play in events.  Son's team has 12 on the roster so 7 are left at home in any given event.  He's number 2 right now as a freshman and that is fortunate.  Number 1 is also a freshman.  Means a lot of upper classmen are being left at home.

Edited October 12, 2022 by DevilDog

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

4 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

TripleBogeysrbetter, my son is the first in the history of his school to go to college on golf scholarship in school history.  A LOT of players passed through before him as you've stated about your son's school.  Only about 1% of high school players play on a college team counting all colleges.  It's a highly competitive arena.  

 

Even if you make a college team, you may not make the top 5 that play in events.  Son's team has 12 on the roster so 7 are left at home in any given event.  He's number 2 right now as a freshman and that is fortunate.  Number 1 is also a freshman.  Means a lot of upper classmen are being left at home.

Its the harsh reality of college golf.  I am familiar with.  My son was a freshman last year.

 

When folks tell the kids listen it will be hard on you.  You have to study and then travel to practice.  Wash your clothes.  Travel for tournaments.

Get assignments from the professors.  Catch up on work.  Study hall etc.

It can really affect a young person.

 

My son played in their conference championship last year.  It was a four day trip away from school.  So he was back at the hotel at night working.

 

He is also in ROTC. So when he got back the next weekend.  They went out for  a field training exercise.

[DevilDog]

Just now, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Its the harsh reality of college golf.  I am familiar with.  My son was a freshman last year.

 

When folks tell the kids listen it will be hard on you.  You have to study and then travel to practice.  Wash your clothes.  Travel for tournaments.

Get assignments from the professors.  Catch up on work.  Study hall etc.

It can really affect a young person.

 

My son played in their conference championship last year.  It was a four day trip away from school.  So he was back at the hotel at night working.

 

He is also in ROTC. So when he got back the next weekend.  They went out for  a field training exercise.

 

Exactly how it is.  My son's first event he was writing a 6 page paper at night while gone.  He had reading to do and other assignments.  He's doing well in his classes but it is LOT of work.  As you also said, laundry, school work, and even college socializing all have to be managed.  Time management has to be learned quickly.

[kcap]

On 9/2/2022 at 8:28 AM, Mikos317 said:

Happy to see this forum as my son has been playing recreationally for the last 1 year.  He is currently 15 and entering HS this year (in NJ).  He has recently become very interested in golf and we've had him in a few group lessons but nothing significant.  He's probably shot about 10 full rounds of golf and shoots in the high 80s-low 90s.  He's a hockey player in the winter - both travel and HS.  Time to practice will be a factor but he's looking just to keep playing and improving.  Hoping to maybe play some in college down the road.

 

I want to do right by him and was looking for some guidance.  Happy to do the research but was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.  Thank you in advance.

 

 

Hey Mikos - What specific guidance are you looking towards? Coaches, local tournaments, practice, scores etc.   I am from the area and have kid pretty involved in Junior golf. 

 

While your son is late starter, he is a athlete and anything is possible if he really wants it.  You can DM me if you need more details but happy to share local intel

Edited October 12, 2022 by kcap

[RmoorePE]

One thing that is interesting is that a lot of high school kids claim interest in playing college sports, they do the youth tournaments, the extra practices, make recruiting pages, polish Instagrams etc, but have never actually watched a college event at the level they hope to play at. What does it look and feel like?

 

I took my oldest daughter to watch a D-3 volleyball match when she was  Jr in high school. She was a great HS volleyball player, runner up all state setter, etc. We watched for about 5 minutes she said, "I'm too short and too slow." It wasn't actually true, she had the game and interest in that level from coaches but realized that she had a long way to go to be on the court. At that moment she turned from volleyball as a goal to volleyball as a hobby for fun. She realized that the work required to do that was going to be more than she wanted to do.

 

Find a local Jr college or small school event and go watch with your kid. See if the environment inspires. Will be fun anyway.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

5 hours ago, DevilDog said:

 

Exactly how it is.  My son's first event he was writing a 6 page paper at night while gone.  He had reading to do and other assignments.  He's doing well in his classes but it is LOT of work.  As you also said, laundry, school work, and even college socializing all have to be managed.  Time management has to be learned quickly.

As a college athlete there is:

Academics

Golf (or whatever sport)

The party social scene.

 

You can only be great at two.  Hard to be all three.

[Tannerbug33]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:42 AM, heavy_hitter said:

 

Our school played a 9 hole match yesterday and won by 50 strokes.  Played in 4somes with our 1 & 2 paired with their 1 & 2.  The discrepancy in junior tournament golfers (our 1-5 bags) is so wide compared to a HS team whose don't.  Just the wide gap in distance off the tee is huge.  My kid is pretty long and hits 3i 250.  He was hitting his 3i past these kids drivers.  The opponents fathers were amazed while in the back of my mind I am thinking "these guys have never seen good junior golf".  

 

Moral of the story, at 15 to have a legit chance at college better be carrying it 280+ with driver and able to shoot low 80's high 70's from 6800 yards +.

Everyone I come in contact with in high school golf talks about how good my son is where is he going to play. I’m like when you get outside high school they are all good. 

[Movingday]

On 10/12/2022 at 8:42 AM, heavy_hitter said:

 

Moral of the story, at 15 to have a legit chance at college better be carrying it 280+ with driver and able to shoot low 80's high 70's from 6800 yards +.

Im curious about the route for the late bloomer. The kid that can’t do this at 15 but can at 17. 

[heavy_hitter]

12 minutes ago, Movingday said:

Im curious about the route for the late bloomer. The kid that can’t do this at 15 but can at 17. 

Colleges aren't recruiting that kid anymore because of the transfer portal.  Kid would be looking at mid to lower DII or mid to upper DIII/NAIA if they were a true late bloomer.  There is no reason for anyone to recruit a risk anymore when they can grab what they need out of the portal. 

 

Shooting High 70's to low 80's is low DIII or low NAIA honestly. Shooting those scores at 17 isn't even a late bloomer in my opinion, that kid never bloomed.

Edited October 17, 2022 by heavy_hitter

[Abh159]

6 minutes ago, Movingday said:

Im curious about the route for the late bloomer. The kid that can’t do this at 15 but can at 17. 

 

Heavy is correct. Major programs aren't even looking at these players. By the time a graduating class is in it's senior year of HS most college programs already have their roster set with incoming freshman for the following year.

 

A kid like this would have two options...

 

One, go to a school and try to "walk on". I wouldn't recommend this as it's very, very, very rare to walk on a golf team in college.

 

Two, go to a lower-level school (DII/III, JUCO, etc), and then hope to transfer later on if they perform well.

[Wham49]

all of your comments about this is why I do not look at these threads, so you are telling the guy who is trying to get his kid into golf to give up becasue he will never be good enough, not what I would call advice. I am sure the guy does not think that his kid will get a full ride to a big d1 school or go right to the pga tour. He was looking for some advise to help his kid. You should have told him about getting a swing coach and play as many rounds as possible, work on short game not just discourage him. SOme of the best young golfers I saw are not the best when they get older, other catch up, or they hate it becasue they were forced to play too much for an overbearing parent. People do start playing and become great players even after the age of 15, I know the common thought on the junior page is that if you arent breaking par at 10, they should give up and move on, but that is not reality or common sense.

[Movingday]

17 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Colleges aren't recruiting that kid anymore because of the transfer portal.  Kid would be looking at mid to lower DII or mid to upper DIII/NAIA.  There is no reason for anyone to recruit a risk anymore when they can grab what they need out of the portal.  Shooting High 70's to low 80's is low DIII or low NAIA honestly. Shooting those scores at 17 isn't even a late bloomer in my opinion, that kid never bloomed.

Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant late bloomer from a distance stand point. Kid that shoots the high 70s low 80s but only hits it 240 at 15. Then hits growth spurt (or in this spurt at 15). Comes out on other side hitting it 280/300 and now low 70s/breaking par

[Abh159]

19 minutes ago, Wham49 said:

all of your comments about this is why I do not look at these threads, so you are telling the guy who is trying to get his kid into golf to give up becasue he will never be good enough, not what I would call advice. I am sure the guy does not think that his kid will get a full ride to a big d1 school or go right to the pga tour. He was looking for some advise to help his kid. You should have told him about getting a swing coach and play as many rounds as possible, work on short game not just discourage him. SOme of the best young golfers I saw are not the best when they get older, other catch up, or they hate it becasue they were forced to play too much for an overbearing parent. People do start playing and become great players even after the age of 15, I know the common thought on the junior page is that if you arent breaking par at 10, they should give up and move on, but that is not reality or common sense.

 

Did you read the comments? At no point did anyone say that he should "give up because he will never be good enough"...

 

People actually did offer some pretty sound advice - start getting him into formal instruction, practice more, decide on hockey or golf (both are not realistic at the next level), and etc.

[Wham49]

30 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Did you read the comments? At no point did anyone say that he should "give up because he will never be good enough"...

 

People actually did offer some pretty sound advice - start getting him into formal instruction, practice more, decide on hockey or golf (both are not realistic at the next level), and etc.

fair enough, those exact words were not used, but def. could infer that

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, Movingday said:

Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant late bloomer from a distance stand point. Kid that shoots the high 70s low 80s but only hits it 240 at 15. Then hits growth spurt (or in this spurt at 15). Comes out on other side hitting it 280/300 and now low 70s/breaking par

DII or DIII golf.  My kid was kind of in that boat.  At 15 he was 250 tops.  15-16 he hit his man spurt.  Now sits at 118 club speed and mid 170's ball speed.  Issue is a lot of those schools are already full at that point, even at the Upper End DII level.  If they don't they are choosing from a handful of guys they have already been talking to.  

[TroyB123]

There has to be a lot of adjustment for physical maturity when discussing teenage driving distances.

 

We played with a 12 yo yesterday who was carrying his driver 270-280.   He is also 5'9 and looked about 170 lbs, had a deep voice and facial hair.   His Dad is about the same size though, so I am guessing that is about it for his growing.   We've always been late in the growth spurt/puberty area and my 14 yo carries about 240-250, but no signs of puberty yet and is only 5'6/108 pounds.   The men in my family are all about 6'-6'2/180-220 lbs.   I imagine these 2 kids will have wildly different distance increase trajectories over the next few years.

[heavy_hitter]

37 minutes ago, Wham49 said:

fair enough, those exact words were not used, but def. could infer that

 

On 9/2/2022 at 8:28 AM, Mikos317 said:

Hoping to maybe play some in college down the road.

This is what he said at the bottom of the paragraph.  

 

About 1% of high school golfers play collegiality.  The stark reality is that it is hard.  There was not one post in this thread that inferred to give up.  You may not have liked what was said, but what was said is pretty much spot on from every poster in this thread.  

[Wham49]

28 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

This is what he said at the bottom of the paragraph.  

 

About 1% of high school golfers play collegiality.  The stark reality is that it is hard.  There was not one post in this thread that inferred to give up.  You may not have liked what was said, but what was said is pretty much spot on from every poster in this thread.  

I agree most HS players dont have a chance at playing in college, mostly becasue they dont put the time in.. I just thought everything seemed negative toward a teen wanting to start golfing.

 

The last D1 player I coached I could beat until his Junior year, then he got really good that summer impressed somebody at a tourney and got a scholarship. That doesnt happen all the time, but kids can put effort forth and catch up to the curve

Edited October 17, 2022 by Wham49

[StudentGolfer4]

@Mikos317

 

Check out some local D3 and D2 schools to get a reasonable idea of what it takes to play college golf. Whatever scores you are seeing subtract 2-5 strokes and that’s usually what those kids were shooting in high school and summer tournaments. Many kids I competed with went on to play golf and I was always surprised to see the jump in their scores. Then I did the same thing and it all made sense. 

D3 schools especially have a massive gap in talent. The school winning our conference every year would be right around even par for a 5 man, 4 round, 2 weekend tournament. The teams battling for places 2-5 would be around 300-310 and then the teams at the bottom of the conference would be closer to 330-340. It’s very possible to play 1-2 for a school but then not even be good enough to make the traveling squad at a school just down the road. 

 

D3 schools do not give out athletic scholarships and most coaches will be willing to take a chance on a kid that they think could help the team down the road. Now, if the kid is going to be happy practicing every day and not playing in very many tournaments the first year or two is a very different question. 

If your son enjoys golf then by all means practice hard and get as good as possible. Find a list of schools he would be interested in, and then see if playing golf at any of them is possible. At the lower levels it’s common to contact schools/coaches you are interested in attending. Unless you’re a special talent the odds of them recruiting you out of the blue are slim. 

 

[tssgj65]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:06 AM, DevilDog said:

 

Exactly how it is.  My son's first event he was writing a 6 page paper at night while gone.  He had reading to do and other assignments.  He's doing well in his classes but it is LOT of work.  As you also said, laundry, school work, and even college socializing all have to be managed.  Time management has to be learned quickly.

They will have to ABSOLUTELY LOVE the grind!!!!  It is a lot of work.  NCAA allows 20 hours per week in season - only counting 3 hours for practice/qualifying rounds - does not count travel time.  6:00 am weights three time a week.  It is a LOT different than anything they have been use to (unless they attended a golf academy).  Most HS kids have no idea.  The better educated they are the higher chance for success.  Once he gets to his junior year you can try to start slotting your son/daughter to the level/schools they might find the best fit.

[tssgj65]

2 hours ago, Movingday said:

Im curious about the route for the late bloomer. The kid that can’t do this at 15 but can at 17. 

If he "can" he's winning tournaments at 17.  He will be discovered...

[heavy_hitter]

33 minutes ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

@Mikos317

 

Check out some local D3 and D2 schools to get a reasonable idea of what it takes to play college golf. Whatever scores you are seeing subtract 2-5 strokes and that’s usually what those kids were shooting in high school and summer tournaments. Many kids I competed with went on to play golf and I was always surprised to see the jump in their scores. Then I did the same thing and it all made sense. 

D3 schools especially have a massive gap in talent. The school winning our conference every year would be right around even par for a 5 man, 4 round, 2 weekend tournament. The teams battling for places 2-5 would be around 300-310 and then the teams at the bottom of the conference would be closer to 330-340. It’s very possible to play 1-2 for a school but then not even be good enough to make the traveling squad at a school just down the road. 

 

D3 schools do not give out athletic scholarships and most coaches will be willing to take a chance on a kid that they think could help the team down the road. Now, if the kid is going to be happy practicing every day and not playing in very many tournaments the first year or two is a very different question. 

If your son enjoys golf then by all means practice hard and get as good as possible. Find a list of schools he would be interested in, and then see if playing golf at any of them is possible. At the lower levels it’s common to contact schools/coaches you are interested in attending. Unless you’re a special talent the odds of them recruiting you out of the blue are slim. 

 

At the better D3 schools they are getting money to the better kids to attract them to the school without Athletic Scholarships.  That is why those D3 schools are good.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

2 hours ago, tssgj65 said:

They will have to ABSOLUTELY LOVE the grind!!!!  It is a lot of work.  NCAA allows 20 hours per week in season - only counting 3 hours for practice/qualifying rounds - does not count travel time.  6:00 am weights three time a week.  It is a LOT different than anything they have been use to (unless they attended a golf academy).  Most HS kids have no idea.  The better educated they are the higher chance for success.  Once he gets to his junior year you can try to start slotting your son/daughter to the level/schools they might find the best fit.

I really wish coaches handed this out to kids during high school and visits to college.

 

You are correct most kids have no idea.  It's an absolute grind like you said.

 

The coaches ( not all ) in my opinion need to be less worried about scaring off a kid and better prepare them.