Do I need stiffer iron shafts?

[BadbeatJay]

I was fitted 3 years ago and I've been practicing lots the past 3 years. 

I recently changed driver shaft from a Ventus Blue 6S to a Black 6X and noticed a huge gain in both distance and improved dispersion. Ball Speed is 170+

I am not hooking my drives like I used to when I get after it (unless I put a really bad swing on) 

Lately I'm having a big issue with my irons. I'm playing Mizuno JPX 921 Tours with a nippon ns modus tour 105 Stiff . My increased swing speed has added 10-15 yards to my irons and I'm making solid contact and the swing feels ok but the ball keeps sailing 20 yards left. I feel like this issue started after I changed my driver shaft and really started to swing more aggressively. 

In an effort to fix this, I've completely slowed down my swing for my irons. I'm losing marginal distance 10-15 yards (back to the distances I was fitted at) but it's straightened out. Actually I'm still htting draws but the ball's starting 2 degrees right and coming back near the centre line. 

 

 

After practicing my irons with this new tempo, I tried hitting driver again and now. It's fading 25 yards right which isn't my normal ball flight. .  I'm ok with hitting fades but I find it difficult to adjust to when my irons have such a different flight characteristic from my driver. 

 

I know I'm using a pretty lightweight iron shafts (modus 105).

Should I be tinkering with other heavier shafts or is this just a mental block I need to figure out? 

 

It's driving me bonkers when I'm 180 out and end up hooking my 7 iron 20-30 yards left. I hardly used to do that but it's becoming quite frequent now. 

 

 

 

[Stuart_G]

7 hours ago, BadbeatJay said:

I was fitted 3 years ago and I've been practicing lots the past 3 years. 

I recently changed driver shaft from a Ventus Blue 6S to a Black 6X and noticed a huge gain in both distance and improved dispersion. Ball Speed is 170+

I am not hooking my drives like I used to when I get after it (unless I put a really bad swing on) 

Lately I'm having a big issue with my irons. I'm playing Mizuno JPX 921 Tours with a nippon ns modus tour 105 Stiff . My increased swing speed has added 10-15 yards to my irons and I'm making solid contact and the swing feels ok but the ball keeps sailing 20 yards left. I feel like this issue started after I changed my driver shaft and really started to swing more aggressively. 

In an effort to fix this, I've completely slowed down my swing for my irons. I'm losing marginal distance 10-15 yards (back to the distances I was fitted at) but it's straightened out. Actually I'm still htting draws but the ball's starting 2 degrees right and coming back near the centre line. 

 

 

After practicing my irons with this new tempo, I tried hitting driver again and now. It's fading 25 yards right which isn't my normal ball flight. .  I'm ok with hitting fades but I find it difficult to adjust to when my irons have such a different flight characteristic from my driver. 

 

I know I'm using a pretty lightweight iron shafts (modus 105).

Should I be tinkering with other heavier shafts or is this just a mental block I need to figure out? 

 

 

You're playing Nippon 105 Stiff?    That's closer to most OEM's reg flex iron shaft than stiff.  So that puts you basically 2 flexes softer in the irons than in the driver.    And yes, that is also is on the light side of what one would normally see for that swing speed.

 

But back to the question.    If the different feels between the driver and irons has a noticeable effect on your swing and has that much influence on the way you swing  - then yes.  You need to do something to get the feels to sync better and allow a more similar swing.   Some people naturally swing their irons differently than their driver - and there is no standard for how the flex labels (stiff, x-stiff, reg, etc..) will translate into feel - so it doesn't necessarily mean that you should be playing the same flex.   But it's pretty clear you should be playing stiffer shafts in your irons.   

 

Heavier is a different question.   The answer there could be 'yes' as well.   But only testing and trying different options will tell you for sure.   So yes, go tinker as much as you can.   Find as many stiff and x-stiff iron shafts to test out or demo and see how they feel and perform for you.

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Stuart_G

[phizzy30]

At 170+ ball speed, you should probably be playing something heavier in your irons shafts.  120-130 range.  Going to an x flex may help your tighten your dispersion as well. 

[BadbeatJay]

On 9/7/2022 at 5:11 AM, phizzy30 said:

At 170+ ball speed, you should probably be playing something heavier in your irons shafts.  120-130 range.  Going to an x flex may help your tighten your dispersion as well. 

Would a tour issue s400 be ok or do you think I need something stiffer like an x100? 

 

Basically my swing fits very well with a Ventus black driver. I know irons are different than driver but I'm looking at a pretty sweet set of tour issue s400 at a good price and wondering if I should pull the trigger. I would hate to purchase it and still find that the Shaft isn't stiff enough. 

[bnperrone]

Huge caveat that nobody can tell you exactly what’s right, but I’d be cautious about jumping all the way up to some thing like an S400. It’s a big change. I went the other way from tour to mid-weight and the modus 105x is pretty good for me, and it’s 6-7 grams heavier than your 105s. The shaft I’m now playing that I find very similar in feel is the TT Elevate Tour. I’m in S300 (117g) but at your speed you might want the X100 version at 122g. For me if you blindfolded me the 105 and Elevate would feel the same, but I can bump weight a bit while softening up a bit. For you it would bump weight and stiffen up what you’ve been using and that might be a good middle ground for you.

 

Marketing says Modus 115 is a heavier version of the 105 but to me it was not at all. They felt totally different to me and I hated the 115 even through it would’ve worked best in theory. I’m fully settled with the Elevates. Stock in PXG and I think a lot of people look past stock shafts.

[BadbeatJay]

7 hours ago, bnperrone said:

Huge caveat that nobody can tell you exactly what’s right, but I’d be cautious about jumping all the way up to some thing like an S400. It’s a big change. I went the other way from tour to mid-weight and the modus 105x is pretty good for me, and it’s 6-7 grams heavier than your 105s. The shaft I’m now playing that I find very similar in feel is the TT Elevate Tour. I’m in S300 (117g) but at your speed you might want the X100 version at 122g. For me if you blindfolded me the 105 and Elevate would feel the same, but I can bump weight a bit while softening up a bit. For you it would bump weight and stiffen up what you’ve been using and that might be a good middle ground for you.

 

Marketing says Modus 115 is a heavier version of the 105 but to me it was not at all. They felt totally different to me and I hated the 115 even through it would’ve worked best in theory. I’m fully settled with the Elevates. Stock in PXG and I think a lot of people look past stock shafts.

Thanks for your input. The golf shop near me has x100 shafts to try. Maybe I'll try hitting a few different ones and go from there. It does sound like jumping straight into a blind purchase with a much heavier shaft might not be a good idea in hindsight... Thanks again

[phizzy30]

On 9/14/2022 at 9:36 AM, BadbeatJay said:

Would a tour issue s400 be ok or do you think I need something stiffer like an x100? 

 

Basically my swing fits very well with a Ventus black driver. I know irons are different than driver but I'm looking at a pretty sweet set of tour issue s400 at a good price and wondering if I should pull the trigger. I would hate to purchase it and still find that the Shaft isn't stiff enough. 

X100 would probably be a better fit for you.  S400 is a slightly heavier S300 and it plays true to flex. 

[steventoo]

Hi,

 

Your driver stats and iron trouble sound similar to me. I've built some speed back into my swing and my 7 iron is a 165m club that missed 20m left on a bad day with my old shafts. I didn't really connect working on driver speed with also increasing my iron speed, or at least I didn't think I'd do enough work to move back into 130g X flex irons like I used 15 years ago...!

 

I was playing KBS Tour 120S shafts and my 7 iron moves at around 97mph when I'm warmed up. I changed to KBS Tour 130X and I'm much happier with their performance. The big left miss has tightened up and I'm no longer launching them ridiculously high. It's made a pretty big difference and it's well worth trying if you can.

Edited September 17, 2022 by steventoo

[BadbeatJay]

19 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

X100 would probably be a better fit for you.  S400 is a slightly heavier S300 and it plays true to flex. 

That's perfect advice thanks! 

I wasn't sure what it would feel like going from a light shaft like a modus 105 to a heavier x100. 

 

My father has some old clubs in my storage. Unfortunately he's a lefty (while I'm right handed) but I did find an iron set with s300 shafts. 

 

I did some air swings with it to feel the comparison vs my current shaft (even though his clubhead was wrong orientation). I did it to test the feel and tempo. I used to swing s300 many years ago but forgot the feel. 

 

What I noticed was that as I was swinging faster, the heavier weight had a steady like pendulum / inertia while my lighter shaft was erratic. 

 

I have no idea which swing speed was faster but the heavier shaft felt like more control / straight line. 

 

If the x100 is within a couple grams from an s300, I feel like that's the one! 

[BadbeatJay]

I just installed the Tour Issue X100s and I gotta say I'm pretty happy. 

The extra weight going from a modus 105 to an x100 was nothing. 

The slightly heavier shaft actually allowed me to feel the end of my club head more. 

It's not a magic stick. When swinging aggressively, I was still pulling/hooking it 20 yards left on my 6 and 7 irons. 

What the new shaft did however was allow me to feel where my swing was going wrong when doing an air swing, there was enough feel to the end of the clubhead to know where exactly my swing path and club head was closing. 

The lighter modus 105 did not do that. When my swing was fast, it felt eratic in my arms but I had no sense of what the club head was doing until the moment of impact when I could tell if I missed the sweet spot. 

For whatever reason, my impact got a lot more accurate as well. The club head continually found the way into the sweet spot of the iron. Whenever there was a slight mishit, I can tell where the mishit happened but the feeling was dull to my hands (in a good way). Like the impact was muted or absorbed. Very minimal loss of distance on those as well (half a club to a club distance) 

Huge fan of these shafts. 

What I realized as I was hitting these was, why am I swinging at a pace where it's going further than the pros who could easily hit that far but choose to control the ball and be accurate instead? 

I then took a more relaxed swing and got back to the more conventional numbers and will be practicing at that tempo. 

The way I achieved this was slowing down my back swing and then swinging like I normally do. 

I lost about 10 yards but got a lot more accurate. 

I think all in all, if I was to compare, I would say that I could probably achieve the same shots with my Modus 105. If I slowed down my back swing and swung like I did today, the shots would be very similar. The difference however is the actual feeling of the club in my hands and knowing where the club head is in relation to my swing. 

The TI X100s feel a lot better and I found myself hitting the sweetspot a lot more consistently than the Modus 105. Keep in mind this is just my experience. Someone else might like the feel of the lighter shaft and still feel the club head while I couldn't.