At what point is playing blades an advantage?

[Douglsss]

Hypothetically speaking

 

All things being equal - loft, lie, etc - If I have a level of ballstriking to where playing blades vs player distance vs GI irons clubs each have similar average distances, why wouldn’t you play blades?

 

IMO - easier to work multiple trajectories, easier to remove spin, better consistency( no hot faces ). 
 

Another argument could be made that in this scenario - what are you losing in the scoring clubs, say 8i - pw, by not using a bladed club?

[guty17]

Interesting topic! I would not play them because on slight misshits, I would loose more distance than with more forgiving irons and I try to prevent coming short. And specially in wedges and short irons, where I want to be tight, I think it would be noticeable. So I would benefit from better control with blades only on good swing days or in late summer where I get in good swing place. But I would for sure play them for fun. I play GI irons with no hot faces, mx17 from 06, I can work them, no crazy shapes but it is possible without too much hands involved, they dont baloon on me pair with c tapers and I think I benefit from the forgiveness in long irons to get the ball up and in short irons to not lose distance on not good hits.

[TheBiles]

Considering that the majority of pros are moving away from pure blades, I don’t think there is an advantage given today’s technology. 

[OnTheBag]

I've played blades for over 50 years and doubt there is very much advantage in today's equipment, with one exception.  If you pick the ball, the thin sole and lower sweet spot are advantageous.  As someone who struggles to trap and compress, I often can't hit the sweet spot on cavity backs or larger headed irons.  MB's traditionally have a lower spot that is easier for me to connect with.  

 

Aside from that, maybe some minute advantages in shot shaping, but that would be only in the hands of the greatest ball strikers.  

 

 

[ChipNRun]

Two issues to cover: Myth-busting on GI irons, and stage in life.

1 hour ago, Douglsss said:

IMO - easier to work multiple trajectories, easier to remove spin, better consistency( no hot faces ).

 

I would suggest that PD irons are just as likely - if not moreso - to have hot faces than GI irons. And, is the problem hot face or poor strike? See below...

 

53 minutes ago, guty17 said:

I play GI irons with no hot faces, mx17 from 06, I can work them,

 

This is the same thing I saw with my Callaway X20 Tours. Consistent distance yardstick as long as I was practicing a bit. Most of the hot face came when I hit one a groove low. This would be operator error, not design error.

 

a couple of years back, I got to do a side-by-side with my X20Ts and the Callaway Rogue X irons. Rogue X was either PD or GI, depending on who you talked to. The X20Ts had a much tighter distance yardstick than the Rogue X set. Rogue X had hot face as result of push for extra distance; X20T did not - unless I hit it a groove low.

 

Also, golfers can hit a basic draw or fade with almost any iron, as long as they understand ball flight and how golf clubs work. Do you have enough time to practice {high, mid, low} x {hook, draw, straight, fade, slice}.

 

Stage of Life. Recurring story from former small-college golfers I have played with in scrambles. As scratch golfers in their college days, they played blade irons to some benefit. But eight years later, with a job, a wife, children and a dog, they didn't have enough time to keep their swing blade-ready. They found better scoring with more helpful PD or GI iron than blades.

 

[llewol007]

Your argument is watered down because you ultimately got rid of the big differences in playing a blade versus a player distance and game improvement. That is the main reason most would or would not play a blade. So the comparison is really not comparing. If all thing being equal as you say, it just becomes personal preference.

[chisag]

... MB threads here are like playing Whack A Mole. As soon as you smack one down another appears. There is a reason most of the best players on the planet are using Players Irons. Not GI/Distance/MB's but an iron that gives them the benefits of an MB when hitting the center and just enough added forgiveness when they miss a little. But many here just love the idea of playing MB's and nothing wrong with that. 

[nino44]

I play blades from a fitting perspective since I get best contact and turf interaction with the thinest sole I can find. If they made a super thin sole CB, I would play it (looking currently for my unicorn) because I wouldn't mind the marginal extra benefit from a players CB on mishits. I've tried players CBs like Mizuno 223 for example and didnt like that the vertical dispersion was way wider than what I thought was worth for a little thin miss forgiveness. To me, ill at least know a blade came up 5 yards short because I miss hit it, but I won't know if I went long because of my swing or the variance in the players CBs that I have tried.  Its all personal preference at the end of the day. 

 

From your argument, I think it would come down to whatever the player has the most confidence looking at. 

[MtlJeff]

I've played everything from blades to SGIs , spectacularly I might add.....

 

I don't think there's much advantage to blades it's all personal preference.

 

Anyone who says "hot spots" are a problem I usually assume is a poor ballstriker. 

[Asiangolfer1995]

It's mostly personal preference at this point, but for most of the blade users I've played with they want their mishits coming up short of target instead of flying 3-5 yards longer so they know what a true 'miss' feels like so they can work on it in practice to hit the center more.

[Douglsss]

This is great! 

 

And yes, there's always a "why play blades" thread popping up here I was wondering what peoples takes are on the smaller intricacies if all things are equal.

 

8 minutes ago, Asiangolfer1995 said:

It's mostly personal preference at this point, but for most of the blade users I've played with they want their mishits coming up short of target instead of flying 3-5 yards longer so they know what a true 'miss' feels like so they can work on it in practice to hit the center more.

 

I honestly never thought of misses this way. Instead of catching a flier on a lower strike miss you just know off center misses will be short.

43 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

I've played everything from blades to SGIs , spectacularly I might add.....

 

I don't think there's much advantage to blades it's all personal preference.

 

Anyone who says "hot spots" are a problem I usually assume is a poor ballstriker. 

 

Maybe we stop referring it as "hot spots" and just low strikes on a higher CG iron? I think it's just an easier phrase or wording for a low spin miss.

 

1 hour ago, llewol007 said:

Your argument is watered down because you ultimately got rid of the big differences in playing a blade versus a player distance and game improvement. That is the main reason most would or would not play a blade. So the comparison is really not comparing. If all thing being equal as you say, it just becomes personal preference.

 

While I totally agree that at the end of the day everyone should just play what they like, it is a game. I'm just looking for more understanding as to why - if it is your preference - do you play them past the normal cliches that float around these type of threads.

 

Myself, I play 2 sets of clubs - ZX7's and P7MB's. The MB's I play at my home club where I am more comfortable in the shots required and want to work on my ballstriking. MB's are an incredible feedback machine. If I go anywhere else, I don't play them for the reasons most people don't. I like that I have to focus more on a complete swing and controlling my strike point more as the spin and trajectory variance is much higher than ZX7s.

[rd1959]

54 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

I've played everything from blades to SGIs , spectacularly I might add.....

 

I don't think there's much advantage to blades it's all personal preference.

 

Anyone who says "hot spots" are a problem I usually assume is a poor ballstriker. 

No, hot spots are a thing. They don't come up often, but they are real. I'll sometimes use impact tape when practicing. When using a GI iron, even hitting square in the middle of the sweet spot the ball will take off for an extra 10-15 yards. It happens maybe once in 25 shots, but it does happen

[MtlJeff]

3 minutes ago, rd1959 said:

No, hot spots are a thing. They don't come up often, but they are real. I'll sometimes use impact tape when practicing. When using a GI iron, even hitting square in the middle of the sweet spot the ball will take off for an extra 10-15 yards. It happens maybe once in 25 shots, but it does happen

 

I hit 1000+ balls last year on a trackman with Cobra Forged TECs, Ping G410's and PXG forged blades and I wouldn't say I saw a single case of what you describe. What I did see was multiple days where I would hit 10-15 shots in a row into a 2-3 yard distance window with each set. 

[hammergolf]

Only a minority of the greatest players in the world use blades, there must be a reason for that.

[BCULAW]

I started playing blades about 20 years ago. At the time, I was struggling mightily with my iron play. Tried all types of GI irons in search of better play, but nothing helped. A buddy of mine had a set of blades in the bag and, for whatever reason, I hit them really well. Since then, I’ve played every manner of iron, but I always come back to blades. For me, it’s all about the sole width. For whatever reason, thin soles have always “fit” me better. I recently picked up a set of PXG 0311ST blades, but decided to get the “T” version for the 4 iron for a little extra distance and forgiveness. After 3 rounds, I realize I don’t like it at all. I just don’t feel like I can compress the ball as well with it as I can with the slightly smaller/thinner ST model. It may be mental, but the difference is real to me. 
 

That’s a long winded way to say that I think it depends on the player. I can play near par now, but I hit blades better even as a bogey golfer. 

[rd1959]

25 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I hit 1000+ balls last year on a trackman with Cobra Forged TECs, Ping G410's and PXG forged blades and I wouldn't say I saw a single case of what you describe. What I did see was multiple days where I would hit 10-15 shots in a row into a 2-3 yard distance window with each set. 

You're one of the lucky ones. I should have mentioned that I also have a blade and a cb club that I use for practice along with the GI. The discrepancy only happened with the GI iron.

Edited September 11, 2022 by rd1959

[Douglsss]

1 minute ago, BCULAW said:

I started playing blades about 20 years ago. At the time, I was struggling mightily with my iron play. Tried all types of GI irons in search of better play, but nothing helped. A buddy of mine had a set of blades in the bag and, for whatever reason, I hit them really well. Since then, I’ve played every manner of iron, but I always come back to blades. For me, it’s all about the sole width. For whatever reason, thin soles have always “fit” me better. I recently picked up a set of PXG 0311ST blades, but decided to get the “T” version for the 4 iron for a little extra distance and forgiveness. After 3 rounds, I realize I don’t like it at all. I just don’t feel like I can compress the ball as well with it as I can with the slightly smaller/thinner ST model. It may be mental, but the difference is real to me. 
 

That’s a long winded way to say that I think it depends on the player. I can play near par now, but I hit blades better even as a bogey golfer. 

 

It's funny because I kind of fell down the blades path in a similar way. Was in a fitting and just wanted to see if the new blades were really that much harder to hit than my ZX7's. I went through them all, Apex's, Miuras, Mizunos, titleist, and could hit a single one. Was really disheartened but then I hit the P7MBs and it was night and day. I was getting numbers similar to my ZX7's. I will say I do struggle with the distance on the longer irons but that also falls down to strike a little too high on the face.

[Douglsss]

5 minutes ago, rd1959 said:

You're one of the lucky ones

Agreed. Was fit for ZX5's at one point and hitting an 8 iron 160 to catching a heater and it goes 200 was not very fun on course. Switch to the ZX7's and haven't had any issues like that.

 

[puttingmatt]

The only way to answer these questions on what is it like to play blades, is to 

take a season  with a set in the bag 

 

That way the player can experience and experiment all the ups and downs with having to maintain a good ball striking iron game. 

 

If you have played the game for  awhile.

And wish to have the real understanding of blades and how you would score with them, get a set.

 

Sitting behind a keyboard won't answer these or other questions.

 

 

[Douglsss]

2 hours ago, llewol007 said:

Your argument is watered down because you ultimately got rid of the big differences in playing a blade versus a player distance and game improvement. That is the main reason most would or would not play a blade. So the comparison is really not comparing. If all thing being equal as you say, it just becomes personal preference.

See this is what makes this discussion more interesting. If I'm 2000 Tiger Woods playing blades and I have a way of gaining even a 1% better striking/miss ratio, wouldn't I take it? It falls into a similar comparison with Tiger of using steel shafted driver vs graphite. Eventually, he made the change because it was better. Why is it so different with irons? By the same logic of the driver, wouldn't top level ballstrikers stand to gain the most from more forgiving irons vs blades?

 

That's why I was asking what is the advantage if all things are equal because the blade argument in regards to performance has never made sense to me for anyone - pro or weekend hack. If it's just preference and what you like, great. But if we are conflating the two arguments it muddles the discussion when people pretend like blades are the end all be all of a "real golfer".

[BCULAW]

On 9/10/2022 at 6:29 PM, Douglsss said:

 

It's funny because I kind of fell down the blades path in a similar way. Was in a fitting and just wanted to see if the new blades were really that much harder to hit than my ZX7's. I went through them all, Apex's, Miuras, Mizunos, titleist, and could hit a single one. Was really disheartened but then I hit the P7MBs and it was night and day. I was getting numbers similar to my ZX7's. I will say I do struggle with the distance on the longer irons but that also falls down to strike a little too high on the face.

Truly, I was an awful iron player. When I picked up the game, I could hit my driver and woods beautifully, but I could not make solid contact with irons. I kept buying bigger and bigger game improvement irons, which ultimately led me to buying a set of Callaway Hawkeye irons with graphite shafts in search of forgiveness. I was playing a round of golf with my best friend, who happens to be a scratch golfer who had a competitive junior career. I busted a drive on a par five that left me 185 yards from the green. I actually outdrove him. I pulled a five iron in hopes of reaching the green and two, but hit a club head twisting push knuckle fade that ended up in the water way right of the green. For whatever reason, I just couldn’t seem to be able to get the sweet spot of the club onto the back of the ball.

 

I threw the five iron 50 yards down the fairway!

 

My buddy came over to give me an impromptu playing lesson. He handed me his club since I had no club to swing. It was a Titleist 680 that looked like a razor blade in comparison to the Callaway monstrosity. I put a swing on the ball, and hit it beautifully. For whatever reason, I am just able to get smaller irons to the back of the ball more efficiently than I can with larger clubs. I’ve played a lot of different irons since then, but the vast majority of the irons that I have owned have been blades. Every time I try  to move away from them, I realize that I just hit them better.

 

On that day, the difference for me was: 1) my buddy’s blades were 2* upright and effectively 3* more upright than the Callaway; and 2) my buddy’s blades had a sole width about 1/2 the size of the Callaways. Over time, it has become apparent that I am very sensitive to lie angle and sole width. As a result, a properly fitted, narrow soled iron provides me more benefit than perimeter weighting or larger-profiled designs. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by BCULAW

[Douglsss]

2 minutes ago, puttingmatt said:

The only way to answer these questions on what is it like to play blades, is to 

take a season  with a set in the bag 

 

That way the player can experience and experiment all the ups and downs with having to maintain a good ball striking iron game. 

 

If you have played the game for  awhile.

And wish to have the real understanding of blades and how you would score with them, get a set.

 

Sitting behind a keyboard won't answer these or other questions.

 

 

 

Hahaha well this is exactly what I have done. The looks I get from being a newer golfer playing blades is great. Some days I love them, some not so much. I will say they 100% have improved my ballstriking, especially when I go back to playing my ZX7's. This was more an extension of a convo I had on the course with some people who believe no one should play blades, even more so someone who hasn't been playing for <insert random number of years>.

 

 

[Douglsss]

2 minutes ago, BCULAW said:

Truly, I was an awful iron player. When I picked up the game, I could hit my driver and woods beautifully, but I could not make solid contact with irons. I kept buying bigger and bigger game improvement irons, which ultimately led me to buying a set of Callaway Hawkeye irons with graphite shafts in search of forgiveness. I was playing a round of golf with my best friend, who happens to be a scratch golfer who had a competitive junior career. I busted a drive on a par five that left me 185 yards from the green. I actually outdrove him. I pulled a five iron in hopes of reaching the green and two, but hit a Word not allowed  push fade that ended up in the water well right of the green. For whatever reason,I just couldn’t seem to be able to get the sweet spot of the club onto the back of the ball.

 

I threw the five iron 50 yards down the fairway!

 

My buddy came over to give me an impromptu playing lesson. He handed me his club since I had no club to swing. It was a Titleist 680 that looked like a razor blade in comparison to the Callaway monstrosity. I put a swing on the ball, and hit it beautifully. For whatever reason, I am just able to get smaller irons to the back of the ball more efficiently than I can with larger clubs. I’ve played a lot of different irons since then, but the vast majority of the irons that I have owned have been blades. Every time I try  to move away from them, I realize that I just hit them better.

I love it. During that session I just thought blades aren't for me. Grabbed the P7MB's and something clicked. Couldn't miss the center of the face. 10 shots with a 6 iron to a 3 yard dispersion. After that I bought some 😄

[MtlJeff]

15 minutes ago, Douglsss said:

Agreed. Was fit for ZX5's at one point and hitting an 8 iron 160 to catching a heater and it goes 200 was not very fun on course. Switch to the ZX7's and haven't had any issues like that.

 

 

40yd fliers are not real. I'm sorry but they are not real.

 

This thread is silly

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by MtlJeff

[Douglsss]

2 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Yeah, those 40yd fliers remind me of that time my pet Unicorn fought with a local Chupacabra but were interrupted by a mermaid.

 

I'm cool with a long left miss just not to that extreme. I guess some of us are just better at finding 4 leaf clovers.

 

I mean hollow body construction quality control from china after beating 1000s of range balls? I forgot, every club everywhere is the same and perfect. My bad.

[MtlJeff]

3 minutes ago, Douglsss said:

I'm cool with a long left miss just not to that extreme. I guess some of us are just better at finding 4 leaf clovers.

 

I mean hollow body construction quality control from china after beating 1000s of range balls? I forgot, every club everywhere is the same and perfect. My bad.

 

I changed my post to be less insulting, however yes a good ballstriker will be able to put pretty much any mainstream iron into a small window.

[hammergolf]

6 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I changed my post to be less insulting, however yes a good ballstriker will be able to put pretty much any mainstream iron into a small window.

Just out of curiosity, who was winning the fight before the mermaid broke it up???

[puttingmatt]

26 minutes ago, Douglsss said:

 

Hahaha well this is exactly what I have done. The looks I get from being a newer golfer playing blades is great. Some days I love them, some not so much. I will say they 100% have improved my ballstriking, especially when I go back to playing my ZX7's. This was more an extension of a convo I had on the course with some people who believe no one should play blades, even more so someone who hasn't been playing for <insert random number of years>.

 

 

Congratulations on getting a set of blades to play.  You will most likely have some ups and downs in scoring, but you will see how you manage with them.

Compare rounds with your other set,

You will figure out which style of irons you prefer.

Edited September 11, 2022 by puttingmatt

[rd1959]

29 minutes ago, Douglsss said:

See this is what makes this discussion more interesting. If I'm 2000 Tiger Woods playing blades and I have a way of gaining even a 1% better striking/miss ratio, wouldn't I take it? It falls into a similar comparison with Tiger of using steel shafted driver vs graphite. Eventually, he made the change because it was better. Why is it so different with irons? By the same logic of the driver, wouldn't top level ballstrikers stand to gain the most from more forgiving irons vs blades?

 

That's why I was asking what is the advantage if all things are equal because the blade argument in regards to performance has never made sense to me for anyone - pro or weekend hack. If it's just preference and what you like, great. But if we are conflating the two arguments it muddles the discussion when people pretend like blades are the end all be all of a "real golfer".

No type of club is an end all, be all. 

[MtlJeff]

9 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

Just out of curiosity, who was winning the fight before the mermaid broke it up???

 

LOL...gotta think about that one

 

I don't want to insult anyone. I just have seen too much data and observational evidence to just want to push back on some of this. But I should know better by now

 

I feel like a unicorn would have too much of a size advantage on further review. So let's go with that!