At what point is playing blades an advantage?

[Cellis]

I think a lot has to also do with what equipment you began with. My first set ever was a set of blades and now everything more game improvement looks large to me. I tried playing a set of 770’s and T100 and mentally knowing I had more forgiveness, ultimately inclined me to concentrate less. To be fair, the added forgiveness also hid some poor swing tendencies I began to notice when I switched back to my blades.
 

I have a hard time believing I’ll ever switch off blades unless I begin to play in tournaments or events requiring the absolute best out of me. But for someone who just enjoys the game for what it is, and visually looking down at something appealing to my eye I can also hit, I’ll remain happy.  I’ll also add in lastly that blades nowadays are not blades of the past… Take the 221 for instance, even with an iron head that size, there’s still plenty of tech and forgiveness thrown into that iron.

[Douglsss]

9 minutes ago, Cellis said:

I think a lot has to also do with what equipment you began with. My first set ever was a set of blades and now everything more game improvement looks large to me. I tried playing a set of 770’s and T100 and mentally knowing I had more forgiveness, ultimately inclined me to concentrate less. To be fair, the added forgiveness also hid some poor swing tendencies I began to notice when I switched back to my blades.
 

I have a hard time believing I’ll ever switch off blades unless I begin to play in tournaments or events requiring the absolute best out of me. But for someone who just enjoys the game for what it is, and visually looking down at something appealing to my eye I can also hit, I’ll remain happy.  I’ll also add in lastly that blades nowadays are not blades of the past… Take the 221 for instance, even with an iron head that size, there’s still plenty of tech and forgiveness thrown into that iron.

100% agree on modern MB's. I tried some Miura MB-101's and couldn't hit them worth anything. Those seem to be about as close to traditional blades of newly available irons out there. The P7MB's though work great. I do have an old Northwestern Pro Bilt 3 iron I mess with from time to time and that thing is a monster. 

[WristySwing]

1 hour ago, Red4282 said:

Id love to get an iron byron to prove but sadly dont have access. EVERY year i test irons to see if i can move to something that offers more, and every year its the same thing. Anything with thin hot faces gives TERRIBLE  front to back dispersion, and ball speed discrepancies. There is plenty of other data out there that suggest the same things, so to suggest an iron byron is needed seems excessive. The most damming is the usage on professional mens tours. Less than 2% of pros play something all the way through the short irons like an apex pro, t200, p770/790, etc. if there was SUCH an advantage…. This wouldnt happen….As someone pointed out to the womens and senior tours…. Maybe… because of the slower speeds they might see a slight benefit to added speeds, but IMO thats a tradeoff, and some are willing to make that. Im not here to say someones experience of never seeing jumpers is wrong, so id appreciate the same respect when I and many others say we have seen them, time and time again. Its not being about right or wrong, thats for each individual to decide with their own experiences. 

 

I test irons every year too.  All day, every day, that is my job.  My first question would be are you having a trained eye looking at you to see why you are seeing these distance discrepancies or are you plugging and playing your fav. shaft into a demo cart 7i and off you go after another disappointing session of find the answer?  Look, I'm not trying to be a pri**.  I am just coming at this from the other side of the equation.  You have a sample size of 1, max a sample size of maybe 10 people you regularly play with who might complain about a flier.  I see 5 players a day the past 5 years in the fitting studio I work at, before that it was a big box store and it could be upwards of 20-30 people a day depending on how busy we were and how loosely you apply the term "fitting".   Nothing distance or flight related could not be explained by what the monitor was showing me regarding the strike, path, or face.

 

I'm not questioning that you are a good player.  I am saying, just as I alluded to in my post to you previously, is that I have seen Tour Pros hit fliers with blades.  I've seen Tiger do it, McIlroy, you name it.  It is not a byproduct of the club having a hot spot.  It's a byproduct of the face-path relationship and dynamic loft getting a little too squeezy.  Maybe the face is closed 0.5* to not produce something that looks like a pull but it still goes over the green?  Maybe you did lean the shaft from 23* to 21* and suddenly you turned that 6i from a static 4i into a static 3i?  Maybe you timed everything properly and you slotted it perfectly and you gained 1-2mph of swing speed that translated into 2-3mph of ball speed?  Nothing is for certain until you have something capturing your swing data and launch data.

 

Another direct anecdote.  I fit a +2 handicap junior golfer yesterday after I had fit her 4 years ago for some Mizuno irons.  She came in adamant that she wanted no tech in the irons at all as she wanted to know if she hit it like crap so she could fix it with her coach.  She began getting frustrated as no new irons gave her what she was looking for (higher spin, higher peak height, steeper descent, and maybe a touch more distance, with more control).  I gave her a P770 on a whim and automatically, at the same loft, 5 yards more carry and she hit a few that were clearly outside of the middle of the head just based on sound and according to the GCQuad and the dots, they all landed at 150 +/- 2 yards and all hit the target green.  She handed it back and said no because she wanted to know when she hit it bad even though this was exactly what she needed to get what she wanted.  There were no fliers to be had and any distance increase was solely because her strike moved a hair more toe side and a slight drop in the delivery being more down on it.  Not once did she hit one greater than 153 or so carry and the P770 is loaded to the gills with all the tech you could ask for and has been proclaimed on here many times that it is "too hot".  PS, didn't the US Junior Am champ just murder the field with a set of dog eared i525s this year?  I thought I saw that on Instagram but maybe it was a different tourny.

 

Lastly, I am a bad player.  Full admit.  13 handicap, never saw anything south of 85 this year so far and best I ever got was to a 6 hdcp 12 years ago.  I will never be considered "good".  I have all the toys, taking lessons, etc., I just don't have the natural talent.  Same thing I have found, never had a flier on the course that didn't end up being something dumb like I misgauged the wind or because I was coming out of rough and the ball was effectively tee'd up netting a very clean, zero resistance strike.

Edited September 11, 2022 by WristySwing

[Red4282]

44 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

I test irons every year too.  All day, every day, that is my job.  My first question would be are you having a trained eye looking at you to see why you are seeing these distance discrepancies or are you plugging and playing your fav. shaft into a demo cart 7i and off you go after another disappointing session of find the answer?  Look, I'm not trying to be a pri**.  I am just coming at this from the other side of the equation.  You have a sample size of 1, max a sample size of maybe 10 people you regularly play with who might complain about a flier.  I see 5 players a day the past 5 years in the fitting studio I work at, before that it was a big box store and it could be upwards of 20-30 people a day depending on how busy we were and how loosely you apply the term "fitting".   Nothing distance or flight related could not be explained by what the monitor was showing me regarding the strike, path, or face.

 

I'm not questioning that you are a good player.  I am saying, just as I alluded to in my post to you previously, is that I have seen Tour Pros hit fliers with blades.  I've seen Tiger do it, McIlroy, you name it.  It is not a byproduct of the club having a hot spot.  It's a byproduct of the face-path relationship and dynamic loft getting a little too squeezy.  Maybe the face is closed 0.5* to not produce something that looks like a pull but it still goes over the green?  Maybe you did lean the shaft from 23* to 21* and suddenly you turned that 6i from a static 4i into a static 3i?  Maybe you timed everything properly and you slotted it perfectly and you gained 1-2mph of swing speed that translated into 2-3mph of ball speed?  Nothing is for certain until you have something capturing your swing data and launch data.

 

Another direct anecdote.  I fit a +2 handicap junior golfer yesterday after I had fit her 4 years ago for some Mizuno irons.  She came in adamant that she wanted no tech in the irons at all as she wanted to know if she hit it like crap so she could fix it with her coach.  She began getting frustrated as no new irons gave her what she was looking for (higher spin, higher peak height, steeper descent, and maybe a touch more distance, with more control).  I gave her a P770 on a whim and automatically, at the same loft, 5 yards more carry and she hit a few that were clearly outside of the middle of the head just based on sound and according to the GCQuad and the dots, they all landed at 150 +/- 2 yards and all hit the target green.  She handed it back and said no because she wanted to know when she hit it bad even though this was exactly what she needed to get what she wanted.  There were no fliers to be had and any distance increase was solely because her strike moved a hair more toe side and a slight drop in the delivery being more down on it.  Not once did she hit one greater than 153 or so carry and the P770 is loaded to the gills with all the tech you could ask for and has been proclaimed on here many times that it is "too hot".  PS, didn't the US Junior Am champ just murder the field with a set of dog eared i525s this year?  I thought I saw that on Instagram but maybe it was a different tourny.

 

Lastly, I am a bad player.  Full admit.  13 handicap, never saw anything south of 85 this year so far and best I ever got was to a 6 hdcp 12 years ago.  I will never be considered "good".  I have all the toys, taking lessons, etc., I just don't have the natural talent.  Same thing I have found, never had a flier on the course that didn't end up being something dumb like I misgauged the wind or because I was coming out of rough and the ball was effectively tee'd up netting a very clean, zero resistance strike.

Couple of things…one, fliers and jumpers are different. Fliers are from a drop in spin, whether it be from water or grass on the face. Yes all clubs get those and i know even pros get those. Jumpers are different in it specifically applies to the thin faced irons aimed at higher ball speed.

 

Id imagine most of your clientele are mid to high cappers and on the slower to average speed range. Which is ok because that is like over 90% of the golfing population. These are exactly the golfers that wont experience the jumpers for the most part.  Even your junior am, she likely doesnt have enough speed to experience this. I saw micah morris (semi pro you-tuber) who is very fast, like high 180s ball speed with driver, get a club deal with cobra. They fit him into a forged tec iron, and i immediately knew this wouldnt last long. Sure enough a month later he had switched to a cb/mb combo. Im completely speculating on why, but Id be suprised if this wasnt the case.Keep in mind, The faster the speeds the more extreme the jumper will be.

 

Ask any really really good golfer and they will all tell you the same thing… they want a club that flies a distance time after time. If it drops a bit because of a mishit they can live with that because a) they mishit it and b) they can at least account for that when choosing  their shot strategy. What they cant stand, hitting a (good) shot just as you have hit hundreds of others and it just inexplicably goes long. Now suddenly your mentally thinking about a two way miss. Ill again point out this happens much more frequently to players with speed.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Red4282

[chisag]

34 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

I fit a +2 handicap junior golfer yesterday after I had fit her 4 years ago for some Mizuno irons.  She came in adamant that she wanted no tech in the irons at all as she wanted to know if she hit it like crap so she could fix it with her coach.  She began getting frustrated as no new irons gave her what she was looking for (higher spin, higher peak height, steeper descent, and maybe a touch more distance, with more control).  I gave her a P770 on a whim and automatically, at the same loft, 5 yards more carry and she hit a few that were clearly outside of the middle of the head just based on sound and according to the GCQuad and the dots, they all landed at 150 +/- 2 yards and all hit the target green.  She handed it back and said no because she wanted to know when she hit it bad even though this was exactly what she needed to get what she wanted.  There were no fliers to be had and any distance increase was solely because her strike moved a hair more toe side and a slight drop in the delivery being more down on it.  Not once did she hit one greater than 153 or so carry and the P770 is loaded to the gills with all the tech you could ask for and has been proclaimed on here many times that it is "too hot". 

 

 

... What always surprises me is those type comments from really good players. I find it hard to believe they have no feel when it comes to their irons. I don't think a + index or even any low index player can hit a P790 a little on the toe and not know it. Even with my '22 Forged Tecs hitting the center has that nirvana feel while missing just a little feels good but not great. Missing a full inch toward the toe is very obvious. Which gets into the 2nd complaint that a more forgiving iron causes someone to swing with more recklessness which is just beyond silly. While I have no doubt from teaching too many that tried to muscle the ball or always wanted to hit their irons a max distance that this is very plausible, it is just a lazy attitude not the club that causes it.

... I know I don't swing any different with my Forged Tecs, Z Forged MBs or my gamers the MIM Tours. The only difference for me is the level of forgiveness on my off days. Even playing to a + (and I have always disliked the handicap system that doesn't;t count my bad days) I have had 2 back surgeries and some days my back causes problems which usually means stiffness and difficulty staying down and through and on those days the difference is quite obvious. When feeling good and swinging well there is admittedly some but not much difference between my ZF's and MIMs so I want an iron that performs under both conditions. And most Pro's are just like us in that regard. Just go to any Tour event on Friday and follow some of the players over the cut line and you will see some pretty egregious mishits. Viewers are spoiled by seeing the leaders every weekend that are playing well, but Pro's struggle too and the reason why most play something more forgiving than MB's. 

[MtlJeff]

4 hours ago, dmeeksDC said:

Yes, I would say one flawed premise is this belief that non-blades or GI clubs are inconsistent on distance. It’s a bunch of baloney. They’re as consistent as the person swinging the club. Shots do fly different distances and fliers do exists — because the golfer is inconsistent. You always hear these anecdotes about inexplicable hot shots but those are not real data, just meaningless folklore. If the shot in question is measured on a monitor, the “inconsistency” is revealed and has zip to do with the club. It’s just golfers blaming the clubs, that’s a cornerstone of the game!

 

I would even go a bit further and say conditions and clubs can certainly lead to fliers too. And yes they do of course exist i agree with you. In my tournament last week i hit a 8 iron about 162-163yds which for me is long, a stock 8 iron for me is 148-152. There was a bit of grass behind the ball, it came out with no spin and ended up long of the green. This was with a blade.

 

An SGI low spin club struck in a similar manner maybe a bit high on the face, you might even see a bigger discrepancy in intention vs result. But this isn't hot spots or flaws with the club it's just the design of the club reacting to certain conditions. And it won't be 40 yards.

 

Struck off a fairway an iron byron will put any club on the market 20 times in a row into a basket.

 

The issue i have with these threads is the subtle differences in head styles get to where the outlier is not only exaggerated but somehow also the norm. Like 2-3 times a round your club will just launch a ball 20yards further than you want. This just doesn't happen to a good ballstriker.

 

In the past 3 years i've played all 4 major kinds of irons (players distance, SGI, blades, player's cavity). There's differences certainly but none enough to fundamentally change my ability to score

[Kingcat990]

Blades are exponentially more fun to play. That's the advantage. 

[third-times-a-charm]

Nothing. Like old persimmons, blades are going the way of the dodo bird. No reason to play them with modern day offerings.

[black bnr32]

Here some actual data:

 

https://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/equipment/best/golf-irons/

 

Check out the distance and ball speed drop off averages.  That’s with a single human testing.  Looks pretty dang similar across the range.

[Red4282]

23 minutes ago, black bnr32 said:

Here some actual data:

 

https://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/equipment/best/golf-irons/

 

Check out the distance and ball speed drop off averages.  That’s with a single human testing.  Looks pretty dang similar across the range.

Great link. Really no significant difference in forgiveness, no matter what type of iron. But lets keep pushin “tech” 😉

 

edit: on second look, dispersion actually got worse with the Players distance/gi clubs. Some of that might have to do with loft, but still…. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Red4282

[chisag]

5 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Great link. Really no significant difference in forgiveness, no matter what type of iron. But lets keep pushin “tech” 😉

 

 

... "You see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear" Rockman from The Point. Dispersion 200.9 with MB's and 185 with Players Irons. Did you actually read the article?


 

Forgiveness Category 2: Players’ Irons

If you need any evidence to support which type of golfer this category is aimed at, you only need to look at tour players like Jordan Spieth, Shane Lowry and Jason Day. All are major champions and currently play irons that fall within this category.

These types of irons are very good options for impressive ball-strikers who don’t necessarily want to compromise on looks, but still want some forgiveness built into what is essentially a blade shape clubhead.

Typical performance traits

Player irons generally are pretty similar to blades for hosel offset, topline thickness and sole width. The majority are forged (with the exception of Ping’s models) as the decent players who use them often believe forging delivers a premium feel/sound. Plus, it’s worth remembering that more than 90% of tour events are won by players using forged models.

For us, a Category 2 model must have some type of cavity-back, either shallow as with the Mizuno JPX919 Tour or deeper as found in the Honma T//World 747 Vx. There absolutely will be no thin fast-face tech (not in the mid-to short-irons anyway), as many purists believe that face flex leads to inconsistencies.

Lofts generally are fairly traditional, since golfers at this level want very consistent gapping and predictable yardages, even on slight mishits.

Who should use players’ irons?

It goes without saying that you need to be a decent ball-striker to get the best out of Player irons. That means you’ll need to be very close to a category one golfer. There’s a very good reason why Players Distance irons (forgiveness Category 2.5) have become so popular over the last few years.

It’s because they bridge the gap that was really difficult to cover when golf didn’t have fast-face tech, strong lofts or hollow body constructions. If you can tolerate some modern tech, you can not only get extra ball speed and distance but more forgiveness, too.

 

Forgiveness Category 1: Muscleback Irons

Musclebacks, also known as blades, are not only the most traditional irons, they’re also the most unforgiving, hence our forgiveness rating of 1. Any golfer thinking of buying a set of blades should have no real desire to add any extra speed, distance or forgiveness to their game.

In fact, the 10% of tour pros who use blades typically do so because the forgiveness levels are so low. It means they can shape shots at will while barely needing to alter their swing.

Typical performance traits

Blades are typically forged rather than cast. The forging process that stamps the irons into shape under high pressure compresses and aligns the grain of the metal more closely, which is said to improve feel and feedback. Musclebacks also have the least amount of hosel offset, which means the centre of gravity (CG) of the clubhead is further forward.

A forward CG delivers a lower, more penetrating ball flight, even though blades tend to have the highest lofts of any iron category. Head sizes are generally very compact, while soles and top lines are typically very slender, which means they should appeal only to the very best ball-strikers.

Most blades come as standard with heavy 120g+ shafts since the more accomplished golfers who use them typically create more swing speed.

Who should use muscleback irons?

There’s a strong school of thought among some hardcore golfers that blades are the only true way to play the game. Some also swear that blades are the best way to learn the game because you’re severely punished for mishits and therefore have to focus more intently on developing a robust swing technique.

Regardless, to get the best out of Category 1 irons you’ll need a handicap of low single figures or better. It’s our opinion that you shouldn’t really consider using them until you get close to scratch.

 

[Itsjustagame]

It's an advantage when you can objectively prove you score better with blades.

[philly2kuk]

18 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

40yd fliers are not real. I'm sorry but they are not real.

 

This thread is silly

 

I disagree Jeff. I can hit an iron 40 yards further. Makes no odds if its a blade or a cavity, it’s just me hitting it thin!

[Red4282]

31 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... "You see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear" Rockman from The Point. Dispersion 200.9 with MB's and 185 with Players Irons. Did you actually read the article?


 

Forgiveness Category 2: Players’ Irons

If you need any evidence to support which type of golfer this category is aimed at, you only need to look at tour players like Jordan Spieth, Shane Lowry and Jason Day. All are major champions and currently play irons that fall within this category.

These types of irons are very good options for impressive ball-strikers who don’t necessarily want to compromise on looks, but still want some forgiveness built into what is essentially a blade shape clubhead.

Typical performance traits

Player irons generally are pretty similar to blades for hosel offset, topline thickness and sole width. The majority are forged (with the exception of Ping’s models) as the decent players who use them often believe forging delivers a premium feel/sound. Plus, it’s worth remembering that more than 90% of tour events are won by players using forged models.

For us, a Category 2 model must have some type of cavity-back, either shallow as with the Mizuno JPX919 Tour or deeper as found in the Honma T//World 747 Vx. There absolutely will be no thin fast-face tech (not in the mid-to short-irons anyway), as many purists believe that face flex leads to inconsistencies.

Lofts generally are fairly traditional, since golfers at this level want very consistent gapping and predictable yardages, even on slight mishits.

Who should use players’ irons?

It goes without saying that you need to be a decent ball-striker to get the best out of Player irons. That means you’ll need to be very close to a category one golfer. There’s a very good reason why Players Distance irons (forgiveness Category 2.5) have become so popular over the last few years.

It’s because they bridge the gap that was really difficult to cover when golf didn’t have fast-face tech, strong lofts or hollow body constructions. If you can tolerate some modern tech, you can not only get extra ball speed and distance but more forgiveness, too.

 

Forgiveness Category 1: Muscleback Irons

Musclebacks, also known as blades, are not only the most traditional irons, they’re also the most unforgiving, hence our forgiveness rating of 1. Any golfer thinking of buying a set of blades should have no real desire to add any extra speed, distance or forgiveness to their game.

In fact, the 10% of tour pros who use blades typically do so because the forgiveness levels are so low. It means they can shape shots at will while barely needing to alter their swing.

Typical performance traits

Blades are typically forged rather than cast. The forging process that stamps the irons into shape under high pressure compresses and aligns the grain of the metal more closely, which is said to improve feel and feedback. Musclebacks also have the least amount of hosel offset, which means the centre of gravity (CG) of the clubhead is further forward.

A forward CG delivers a lower, more penetrating ball flight, even though blades tend to have the highest lofts of any iron category. Head sizes are generally very compact, while soles and top lines are typically very slender, which means they should appeal only to the very best ball-strikers.

Most blades come as standard with heavy 120g+ shafts since the more accomplished golfers who use them typically create more swing speed.

Who should use muscleback irons?

There’s a strong school of thought among some hardcore golfers that blades are the only true way to play the game. Some also swear that blades are the best way to learn the game because you’re severely punished for mishits and therefore have to focus more intently on developing a robust swing technique.

Regardless, to get the best out of Category 1 irons you’ll need a handicap of low single figures or better. It’s our opinion that you shouldn’t really consider using them until you get close to scratch.

 

Yea thats pretty insignificant to be honest. I also dont read somebody elses opinion, i look at the data and determine my own. The data is pretty clear.  Not nearly what ive been told anyways. Also, look at the next category, it doubles to 400….🤷‍♂️ Woof

Edited September 11, 2022 by Red4282

[Tommyboi95]

You get to look super cool 😎 

[MtlJeff]

11 minutes ago, philly2kuk said:

I disagree Jeff. I can hit an iron 40 yards further. Makes no odds if its a blade or a cavity, it’s just me hitting it thin!

 

Let's just say i've used a few lob wedges that gave me a few "fliers" LOL.

[chisag]

10 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Yea thats pretty insignificant to be honest. I also dont read somebody elses opinion, i look at the data and determine my own. The data is pretty clear.  Not nearly what ive been told anyways. Also, look at the next category, it doubles to 400….🤷‍♂️ Woof

 

 

... Not sure what you "have been told" but it really just comes down to common sense. Many of the best players on the PGA Tour and virtually all LPGA are using Players Irons because they are the best of both worlds. I also have no doubt those on tour using MBs are using them because it gives them the best chance of winning. Having taught many high index players the GI/SGI tec certainly helps them as they hit the ball all over the face and rarely hit the center. We are talking about turning really bad shots into marginally bad shots which doesn't help any decent ball striker that needs just a little forgiveness for their slight mishits. 

... I certainly know the difference when playing my ZF MB's compared to my Players Irons and how much my scores are effected, but do not assume it is the same for others. And for seemingly the 1 millionth time, I don't care what you play and if anyone is happy playing MB's regardless of their index or scores that is what non competition golf is all about. But so many MB owners here sure seem to push them on others constantly encouraging them to buy and play a set. 

[Thumper604]

Playing blades is stoopid…
although your friends may be impressed, and that random stranger who walks by your bag on their way to get a hot dog, and who you’ll never see again. They probably think you’re the greatest thing since Burt Reynolds. Enjoy that ego trip! 

[Red4282]

34 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Not sure what you "have been told" but it really just comes down to common sense. Many of the best players on the PGA Tour and virtually all LPGA are using Players Irons because they are the best of both worlds. I also have no doubt those on tour using MBs are using them because it gives them the best chance of winning. Having taught many high index players the GI/SGI tec certainly helps them as they hit the ball all over the face and rarely hit the center. We are talking about turning really bad shots into marginally bad shots which doesn't help any decent ball striker that needs just a little forgiveness for their slight mishits. 

... I certainly know the difference when playing my ZF MB's compared to my Players Irons and how much my scores are effected, but do not assume it is the same for others. And for seemingly the 1 millionth time, I don't care what you play and if anyone is happy playing MB's regardless of their index or scores that is what non competition golf is all about. But so many MB owners here sure seem to push them on others constantly encouraging them to buy and play a set. 

To be honest with you, i dont know how much stock id put in that test anyways. The category “2” or players irons, mix hollow designs and traditional cavities. Like apex pro and apex tcb. Completely different irons. My beef  is mainly with the hollow irons or thin spring faces. Irons like zx7, tcb, t100 (not t100s) dont really apply and should be in a separate catagory. Those are popular on tour. The hollow stuff and thin faces not so much. Maybe you will see a long iron or driving iron occasionally but thats it.

[Phabs]

I play a set of VR2 pro blades occasionally when my swing is really good or when I feel like looking at them for a round.   Normally play a set of MP20 MMC’s or a set of VR1 Pro Combos. I’m about a stroke worse than last year at a +1.2 and the majority of that is piss poor shots inside 100 yards.  I’ve had my best rounds this year playing the VR2’s and also my worst.  Think Ive had 10 under par rounds and 7 of them were with the blades, two with the MP20’s and one with the ProCombos.  Play what you want to play.. no one cares what you’re playing besides yourself.   Just walked in the door from a round of 72 that felt like a round of 92 with the MP20’s. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Phabs

[A.Princey]

When your name is Tiger, Scottie, or Collin...

[itsame]

To all those saying hot spots exist, I'd love to see this proven on a GCQuad or GC2+HMT. I'd be very surprised if suddenly your 7i smash factor jumped from 1.33 to 1.40.

 

[BenSeattle]

"At what point is playing blades an advantage?"   

 

Easy: after you've received your Tour card with full access to the Korn Ferry Tour.  This, after a stellar amateur and college career.  And only if you're already skilled at shaping the ball left and right.

 

Consider this:  Charles Howell III tells the story of Oklahoma State Mike Holder INSISTING that his players use cavity-backed irons..... because he wanted to WIN.  Blades are pretty, blades feel good on the one out of 20 you might hit flush and if you hang with a bunch of status-conscious gearheads they might generate some conversation but if shooting LOWER SCORES is your goal, then go with something more forgiving.  Phil Mickelson, after putting a cavity-back long iron into his bag.... "I'm not good enough to play a blade in a long iron."

 

Think about it: putting blades in your bag impresses nobody because nobody cares.

[craz-e]

For me and why I play them is the narrow sole just works. So I suppose the narrower sole is an advantage for me

Edited September 12, 2022 by craz-e

[lefty1978]

I've played some GI irons, player's cb irons and blades over the past 4 or 5 years. I haven't seen any real advantages or disadvantages with my game, I pretty much shoot the same scores over 10 rounds or so.

 

If I had to say 1 advantage for blades its in the 8 or 9 irons. If you're someone who used these around the green, blades are more versatile in this area. There's no doubt blades are more punishing on mis hits, especially in the mid to long irons. 

 

I still find myself gravitating towards blades, but mostly because I enjoy the look of them and feeling of playing them. Golf is mental.

[Chopper Dave]

It's like having an extra 7 or 8 wedges in the bag

[Bye]

16 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I would even go a bit further and say conditions and clubs can certainly lead to fliers too. And yes they do of course exist i agree with you. In my tournament last week i hit a 8 iron about 162-163yds which for me is long, a stock 8 iron for me is 148-152. There was a bit of grass behind the ball, it came out with no spin and ended up long of the green. This was with a blade.

 

An SGI low spin club struck in a similar manner maybe a bit high on the face, you might even see a bigger discrepancy in intention vs result. But this isn't hot spots or flaws with the club it's just the design of the club reacting to certain conditions. And it won't be 40 yards.

 

Struck off a fairway an iron byron will put any club on the market 20 times in a row into a basket.

 

The issue i have with these threads is the subtle differences in head styles get to where the outlier is not only exaggerated but somehow also the norm. Like 2-3 times a round your club will just launch a ball 20yards further than you want. This just doesn't happen to a good ballstriker.

 

In the past 3 years i've played all 4 major kinds of irons (players distance, SGI, blades, player's cavity). There's differences certainly but none enough to fundamentally change my ability to score

I agree with you that 40 is not realistic and that hot spots are an urban legend. But a full club (10-15 yards of carry) is, which in some cases is nearly as destructive and is easily possible with the wrong equipment regardless of ability.

 

We all know about the high toe knuckle ball, people can call it a hot spot if they want, but its just a strike that knocks some RPM's off the ball. 

 

Those experiencing this have probably been fit in to or are using clubs which for them produce the lower end of manageable spin Combined with a sole designed to get the ball up in the air regardless of strike.....

 

Recently I hit 2 clubs in a fitting with the same loft, one carried 12 yards longer than the other mainly due to an additional 2 degrees of launch and around 1000 rpms less spin . I suspect most people would opt for the clubs that went further. But from the rough or with a slight toe strike they become unplayable. 

 

Clearly I have no idea and am just guessing that you are a high spin player. I'm not and have feared the flyer for 25+ years.

[bodhi555]

I'd say probably at the point where you discover your swing works better with low offset, thin soled irons. I did that 20 years ago and haven't looked back, others may have tried them once and decided they weren't for them. They do have some advantages though, such as lower ball flight, easier to shape, more consistent distance and that pure blade feel.

 

I'd go even further and say that for my swing, CBs offer no real advantage over my current irons, as I rarely, if ever catch an iron out of the toe. Driver yes, but my miss with irons is heel side, where CB's offer very little, if any additional help. I also tend to get a bad case of the lefts whenever I've tried any - could be an offset or a shaft weight issue, but can only report my observations.

 

tl:dr they work best for me and my swing, but they may not for you. Best thing to do is try them and see how you get on.

[Dpavs]

 

In all honesty there is no advantage across the board to any type of club. It's all about what fits your game. It really doesn't matter what you call them. Isn't the point just to find a club that has the best dispersion, consistency, spin, distance, etc. for your individual swing?

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, Bye said:

I agree with you that 40 is not realistic and that hot spots are an urban legend. But a full club (10-15 yards of carry) is, which in some cases is nearly as destructive and is easily possible with the wrong equipment regardless of ability.

 

We all know about the high toe knuckle ball, people can call it a hot spot if they want, but its just a strike that knocks some RPM's off the ball. 

 

Those experiencing this have probably been fit in to or are using clubs which for them produce the lower end of manageable spin Combined with a sole designed to get the ball up in the air regardless of strike.....

 

Recently I hit 2 clubs in a fitting with the same loft, one carried 12 yards longer than the other mainly due to an additional 2 degrees of launch and around 1000 rpms less spin . I suspect most people would opt for the clubs that went further. But from the rough or with a slight toe strike they become unplayable. 

 

Clearly I have no idea and am just guessing that you are a high spin player. I'm not and have feared the flyer for 25+ years.

 

I guess i don't really disagree with anything you are saying, i just don't know if that is where these myths come from. Maybe it is. The stories always seem so implausable

 

But sure, if you pick clubs that aren't really optimal you can get exaggerated and inconsistent results. A great example of this might be the old BiMatrix shafts that guys like Bubba used but were borderline unplayable for an average person. If you struck it perfect on the nut with all of your gusto, you could get it out there but most shots would be wounded ducks that didn't get enough carry.

 

Picking irons that don't spin enough isn't a good idea for a number of reasons. I think any good player could think right now of a time they hit a ball 20yds longer out of the rough because there was a grass behind the ball etc. Likely the ball bounced like it was on a tarmac when it landed

 

I've just never thought of this as issues with the club. It's just launch conditions that players need to be aware of that can happen.

 

I also think if you really struggle to a specific clubhead, shafts can help as much as a new clubhead. And if you can't spin an SGI enough even with a spinny shaft--Golf might just always be tough for that person unfortunately

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by MtlJeff