Putting. Specifically. Using line on the ball. Read inside.

[bladehunter]

So.  I’ve been hitting putts all afternoon.  And something just hit me. 
 

i can purposely setup the line on the ball a degree or so low of the perfect line , and then hit it with a slight push , and the darn thing will still roll end over end.  And it does so on the push path.    I’ve just replicated this several times on purpose.  Anybody else ever see this ?  Pretty much debunks the idea of using the line on the ball to determine if you hit a good putt or simply misread it.  
 

Any thoughts ? 

[SNIPERBBB]

A degree off is far from horrid. 

[bladehunter]

18 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

A degree off is far from horrid. 

Right. But on the putt I was hitting it was difference between make and miss 3 inches low.  No matter how hard you hit it. Of course I’m guessing at the degree off. But wasn’t much. What I’m saying is that in an attempt to find the right line for that putt. I hit some pushes with the aim inside the hole , that missed 3 inches above the hole. But the line rolled perfectly. Very tight.   So it’s not a good judge of path.  

[Santiago Golf]

92% of ball flight (weird term for a putt) is determined by were the face points at impact for putting

 

 

 

 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Santiago Golf said:

92% of ball flight (weird term for a putt) is determined by were the face points at impact for putting

 

 

 

 

Right.  Agree. I’m just puzzled at how I also get the line on the ball to roll true , when it wasnt aligned to the path the face was on? 
 

line on ball facing left , path right , equals ball rolling to the path the face pointed at. But. The line on the ball also rolled true to the right facing path. 
 

this is more of a rando curiosity.  I’m also able to stroke it pure and get the line on the ball rolling where it’s aimed.  I just saw this happen a couple times and couldn’t believe it. 

the idea is you use the line to judge how well the putt is struck.  But if you can vary that much and still get a true line roll , then it’s not a perfect judge of a good putt ( or roll ).  

[Sean124]

Interesting. I use the line on almost every putt, but I don’t really pay attention to what it does after it leaves the face. 

[rd1959]

Unless a putt has a lot of break, I don't use the line. I stand a couple of feet behind the ball and visualize the line on the putting surface.

[pantsparty7]

I've noticed EXACTLY what you're talking about and it drives me nuts. I can't tell why exactly it happens either. I also only notice it on push putts, and I'm in to out with my putting stroke mostly I believe.

[Zitlow]

Do you ever set up to the line on the ball and the line doesn't look right?

 

Some of the pros, Furyk comes to mind set the line on the ball and get over the ball and it doesn't look right. Then he has to redo the ball position to get it lined up again. He might have to reline the ball two or three times before he putts. Zzzzzzz

[Kuuuch]

On 9/10/2022 at 6:42 PM, bladehunter said:

So.  I’ve been hitting putts all afternoon.  And something just hit me. 
 

i can purposely setup the line on the ball a degree or so low of the perfect line , and then hit it with a slight push , and the darn thing will still roll end over end.  And it does so on the push path.    I’ve just replicated this several times on purpose.  Anybody else ever see this ?  Pretty much debunks the idea of using the line on the ball to determine if you hit a good putt or simply misread it.  
 

Any thoughts ? 

I'm a huge fan of using the line now and yes I've noticed the same thing you mentioned in your OP. I think "on average" it can be used as a way to determine if you hit a good putt. It's not easy to get it to roll line over line and most folks can't which has got to count for something right lol.

 

I prefer to use the triple trac lines (not the ball but I have a ball marker with 3 lines) as imo its harder to roll line over line and it also never looks "weird" to me on putts that break more. I never thought I'd like it but its really grown on me. 

[PracticeSwinger]

On 9/10/2022 at 6:42 PM, bladehunter said:

So.  I’ve been hitting putts all afternoon.  And something just hit me. 
 

i can purposely setup the line on the ball a degree or so low of the perfect line , and then hit it with a slight push , and the darn thing will still roll end over end.  And it does so on the push path.    I’ve just replicated this several times on purpose.  Anybody else ever see this ?  Pretty much debunks the idea of using the line on the ball to determine if you hit a good putt or simply misread it.  
 

Any thoughts ? 

Uneducated guess - so don't quote me on this... but I think that it resulted in a tad open face at impact, push path, sweet spot strike (horizontal and vertical), effective loft and thus good rise angle... good launch, top spin, minimal skid - which is the biggest aspect... resulted in a quick true roll and just a degree or so low of the perfect line still rolled end over end... would be fun to test with larger degrees of 'misalignment' 

[bladehunter]

36 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

Uneducated guess - so don't quote me on this... but I think that it resulted in a tad open face at impact, push path, sweet spot strike (horizontal and vertical), effective loft and thus good rise angle... good launch, top spin, minimal skid - which is the biggest aspect... resulted in a quick true roll and just a degree or so low of the perfect line still rolled end over end... would be fun to test with larger degrees of 'misalignment' 

Thanks. Wasn’t trying to indict the whole idea of the line.   Just that I found this by accident and was able to replicate on purpose.  Which made me go - hmmm?  

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

Do you ever set up to the line on the ball and the line doesn't look right?

 

Some of the pros, Furyk comes to mind set the line on the ball and get over the ball and it doesn't look right. Then he has to redo the ball position to get it lined up again. He might have to reline the ball two or three times before he putts. Zzzzzzz

Yes a lot.  I’m left eye dominant.  So I’m mostly blind at address as far as seeing the line correctly.  But I’ve had some insight on how to see the line.  It’s part of why Nicklaus crouched so.  And tilted his head.  He was doing this instinctively to counter his left eye dominance.   Same reason he picked a spot to roll the ball over or to hit a full shot over. Because alignment was his major flaw.  Ended up turning it into a strength.  

[me05501]

I've gone back and forth on using the line. These days I mostly use it only when I'm having a bad putting day. 

 

It can really help when you get set up to it correctly and especially when you're 100% confident that you're set up correctly. Anything less than 100% confidence can lead to unnecessary doubts creeping in over the putt. 

 

I've found it easier to use a shorter line (like are often pre-printed on the ball). It lets my brain ignore any slight mismatch between the alignment aid and my intended line. Less doubt, more confidence.

 

I saw a tweet from a pro who sets the ball with the line facing his intended start line. At address he can only see the end of the line coming up around the front of the ball. I haven't tried that but it seems worth a shot. 

 

I've tried using Srixon Divide balls with the seam all the way around and that seemed to make me doubt my line more. It's actually a challenge to set a ball down and get that line perfectly perpendicular to the ground. Too much doubt, didn't work for me. 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by me05501

[skraly]

I find trying to use a line on the ball a distraction.  Plus it has the potential to slow down what is already too slow a game.

[Wade Patton]

On 9/12/2022 at 2:32 PM, Zitlow said:

Do you ever set up to the line on the ball and the line doesn't look right?

 

Some of the pros, Furyk comes to mind set the line on the ball and get over the ball and it doesn't look right. Then he has to redo the ball position to get it lined up again. He might have to reline the ball two or three times before he putts. Zzzzzzz

This is why I rarely ever use alignment from ball markings. I don't find a lot of difference in aligned putts and not.  But mainly because I rarely hit it to the line I've selected. Not by any swing error, but because I've tweaked the ultimate line/speed in my head between setting the alignment and taking the swing. I'm usually putting to my spot or spots on the surface of the green. 

[Yrrdead]

It bears repeating that path is mostly irrelevant assuming you are pretty close (and you are good @bladehunter). Therefore logic dictates that your face was aligned to the line at impact, regardless of path.

[mshills]

I use the line extensively for practice on my Big Moss at home or on the practice green. I think it is one of the best drills to assess impact and therefore face angle, but I won’t take it to the course. It takes too long to set the line up where I’m comfortable, and I do not like adding that extra step to putting when it matters. 

[k1enneth]

I only align the marking on the ball to the intended putt path when it's a 5' or less kneeknocker and the "make" percentage is possible. Farther away from 5' is just better to put a good roll on it and verify the break of the putt. I take less than 15 seconds to read the putt and execute the putt. I read Dave Stockton's book on putting and I also came up with my quicker version of that putt break reading system for 1*-4* break. The line on the ball and trying to set it up to the putt path doesn't make a whole lot of sense on putts 6' or longer. ymmv.

 

[Zitlow]

How about lining up to a dot on the ball vs a line or having a dot on the putter and use a line on the ball? 

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

They should ban using a line on the ball during tournament play.  Practice, ok. Tournament, no.  There are lines on the putter.  That should be enough.  They banned caddies from lining up their players so why should you be able to use a line.  These guys/girls are the best players in the world and they can't aim a putt from six-feet?? Seriously?!?

 

It slows the game down even more.  I can't believe how many people get the aim wrong, put their marker down again, change the aim....then sometimes go through the entire routine again!! Some people don't even bother to mark the ball again.  They don't even understand you need to keep the mark there while moving the ball.  WTF!?

[GungHoGolf]

16 hours ago, k1enneth said:

I also came up with my quicker version of that putt break reading system for 1*-4* break.

I’d love to hear more about your system. Don’t know how anything can be quicker than Aimpoint Express, but I’m all ears. 

[bladehunter]

13 hours ago, Zitlow said:

How about lining up to a dot on the ball vs a line or having a dot on the putter and use a line on the ball? 

I have a dot on the putter. I like a dot on the back of the ball. Or focus on a dimple  to hit.  But really clean no Writing up ball gets best results.  

[cav5]

4 hours ago, KNOWMOREDOUBLES said:

They should ban using a line on the ball during tournament play.  Practice, ok. Tournament, no.  There are lines on the putter.  That should be enough.  They banned caddies from lining up their players so why should you be able to use a line.  These guys/girls are the best players in the world and they can't aim a putt from six-feet?? Seriously?!?

 

It slows the game down even more.  I can't believe how many people get the aim wrong, put their marker down again, change the aim....then sometimes go through the entire routine again!! Some people don't even bother to mark the ball again.  They don't even understand you need to keep the mark there while moving the ball.  WTF!?

 

I agree that the line should be banned. It's strange to even think its been allowed.

 

I'm biased though because I don't use one. I don't really even try to line up the putter lines, instead I want them to look "normal to me" I they look normal I can make my normal stroke. Alignments a skill you either have it or you don't. Most people even the pros are using stilts to keep their putter working

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, cav5 said:

 

I agree that the line should be banned. It's strange to even think its been allowed.

 

I'm biased though because I don't use one. I don't really even try to line up the putter lines, instead I want them to look "normal to me" I they look normal I can make my normal stroke. Alignments a skill you either have it or you don't. Most people even the pros are using stilts to keep their putter working

I truthfully agree here. And it’s a selfish thing for sure.  But I think a lot rely on it.  And that sentiment won’t be popular.   
 

for instance. I can’t use chap stick on my driver face to cut down spin.  It would help me hit it longer and straighter.  It wouldn’t help the short guy nearly as much.  He already hits it low spin and straight.  
 

the line is really same. It helps some and then some of us are just not able to turn putting into a linear action or linear alignment process. 

[wagolfer7]

26 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I truthfully agree here. And it’s a selfish thing for sure.  But I think a lot rely on it.  And that sentiment won’t be popular.   
 

for instance. I can’t use chap stick on my driver face to cut down spin.  It would help me hit it longer and straighter.  It wouldn’t help the short guy nearly as much.  He already hits it low spin and straight.  
 

the line is really same. It helps some and then some of us are just not able to turn putting into a linear action or linear alignment process. 

 

It does seem odd that's it's legal.  Seems like we should be placing the ball back in it's spot "exactly" how it was resting prior to marking.  

 

I use the line, because it takes 1 step out of the process.  I can also putt just fine without the line.  

 

If your good at putting - I think you'd still be good with or without a line.  If your good at putting - it's about being able to roll the ball true and straight.  That has nothing to do really with using the line on the ball.  See many guys putt like cr@p using the line. 

 

It's legal for all of us.  So I don't think there's anything unfair about it.    

[bladehunter]

11 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

 

It does seem odd that's it's legal.  Seems like we should be placing the ball back in it's spot "exactly" how it was resting prior to marking.  

 

I use the line, because it takes 1 step out of the process.  I can also putt just fine without the line.  

 

If your good at putting - I think you'd still be good with or without a line.  If your good at putting - it's about being able to roll the ball true and straight.  That has nothing to do really with using the line on the ball.  See many guys putt like cr@p using the line. 

 

It's legal for all of us.  So I don't think there's anything unfair about it.    

Mostly agree.  
 

it does make a difference to some.  I putt worse with it. I knew it before.  And yet I tried to make myself for several months this summer to cure some perceived inadequacy that really was just self imposed , after an attempt to force more putts to go in.  
 

what it does to me is takes my feel away.  I get so line bound , that my feel for speed goes away.  It does work on a straight putt. But I’d still hit plenty of those too hard too . Resulting in some really violent misses off the stick or rim outs. 
 

I see putts as a total path to the hole. Not a straight line or a point where it will break.  Then I see where beside the hole to aim the first foot so that my imagined path is possible.  Then I get over it and simply feel it and let it go.    This part is like a free throw in basketball. It’s all feel.  There is no worry of stroke , or path.  Just see the target. Hit the target.  
 

I wish this wasn’t me in a way.  Because you can get way off track if you try to mechanize it.  But this time I have a learned and recorded starting point for setup etc to go back and reference it I need to.  
 

my point with the chap stick was simply that making the line legal for all doesn’t help us all.  Neither would among foreign substances on the face or drivers legal.  You have to be a higher spin player to see the benefit. Slow and low spin guys will see a knuckleball that doesn’t travel.  So opposite of a benefit.  Like me and a line.  

[wagolfer7]

35 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Mostly agree.  
 

it does make a difference to some.  I putt worse with it. I knew it before.  And yet I tried to make myself for several months this summer to cure some perceived inadequacy that really was just self imposed , after an attempt to force more putts to go in.  
 

what it does to me is takes my feel away.  I get so line bound , that my feel for speed goes away.  It does work on a straight putt. But I’d still hit plenty of those too hard too . Resulting in some really violent misses off the stick or rim outs. 
 

I see putts as a total path to the hole. Not a straight line or a point where it will break.  Then I see where beside the hole to aim the first foot so that my imagined path is possible.  Then I get over it and simply feel it and let it go.    This part is like a free throw in basketball. It’s all feel.  There is no worry of stroke , or path.  Just see the target. Hit the target.  
 

I wish this wasn’t me in a way.  Because you can get way off track if you try to mechanize it.  But this time I have a learned and recorded starting point for setup etc to go back and reference it I need to.  
 

my point with the chap stick was simply that making the line legal for all doesn’t help us all.  Neither would among foreign substances on the face or drivers legal.  You have to be a higher spin player to see the benefit. Slow and low spin guys will see a knuckleball that doesn’t travel.  So opposite of a benefit.  Like me and a line.  

 

That's funny.  It's the complete opposite to me.  Using the line on the ball - allows me to only focus on speed.  

 

If I don't use the line, there are now 2 thoughts before I pull the trigger.  Double checking that I'm lined over my starting mark and speed.  Using the line, I already know that the line on the ball is pointed to my target line, so now I just match the line on the putter to the line on the ball and I'm confident I'm aimed correctly.  I'm only thinking speed now.  

 

We do the same stuff, we just describe it differently.  I see the whole path of the putt.  But to me once I see that path, it's all about the start line to make that whole path work.  I'm picking a start line target and a distant target.  And that's really why I love the line on the ball.  The last thing I look at before I pull the trigger, is my distance target.  Because it's all about speed.  Without the line, I'd have to look at my start line target, feel good I'm line up on it, then look at my distance target.  So again - to me it just removes 1 step from the process.  Not a huge advantage, but certainly simplifies the process.  

[GLF4EVR]

Back when manufactures started with the alignment line I struggled with trying to use it.  Would stand behind the ball several times trying to get the intended line, but when I would stand over the ball it would appear to be off to the right of my intended line.  Back then just figured being right handed & left eye dominant had a lot to do with it.  Spent about 1.5 seasons on working with the line before I gave it up entirely and went back to my old system.

 

Pick the line I want to start the ball on.  Set the putter with the face perpendicular to the intended line.  Look towards the hole at the line & double check with the putter face.  Then look back at the line & then look at the hole to get the guesstimate on the force needed to get the ball as close as I can to the hole.  The last thing before putting is staring at the back of the ball right where it contacts the face.  Kind of do this last part just to keep my head still until the putter goes thru the ball.  My local course rarely has a straight putt, so if my intended line is at the hole is usually because that is my guess on where it will end up after the breaks.

 

For well over 10 years have been using an old Odyssey 2-ball XG center shaft putter, so I am not a true WRX'r.  Several years ago had my first ever fitting, a full bag fitting with the putter being the last item.  Before we started with the putter, the fitter wanted to be honest & let me know he did not think much of center shaft putters.  He had me hit to one spot on the cup of the practice green from about 8 feet out.  After 3 balls he told me to never ever get rid of that putter.  Putting is usually the one part of my game that I can constantly rely on (about the only one).    

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, GLF4EVR said:

Back when manufactures started with the alignment line I struggled with trying to use it.  Would stand behind the ball several times trying to get the intended line, but when I would stand over the ball it would appear to be off to the right of my intended line.  Back then just figured being right handed & left eye dominant had a lot to do with it.  Spent about 1.5 seasons on working with the line before I gave it up entirely and went back to my old system.

 

Pick the line I want to start the ball on.  Set the putter with the face perpendicular to the intended line.  Look towards the hole at the line & double check with the putter face.  Then look back at the line & then look at the hole to get the guesstimate on the force needed to get the ball as close as I can to the hole.  The last thing before putting is staring at the back of the ball right where it contacts the face.  Kind of do this last part just to keep my head still until the putter goes thru the ball.  My local course rarely has a straight putt, so if my intended line is at the hole is usually because that is my guess on where it will end up after the breaks.

 

For well over 10 years have been using an old Odyssey 2-ball XG center shaft putter, so I am not a true WRX'r.  Several years ago had my first ever fitting, a full bag fitting with the putter being the last item.  Before we started with the putter, the fitter wanted to be honest & let me know he did not think much of center shaft putters.  He had me hit to one spot on the cup of the practice green from about 8 feet out.  After 3 balls he told me to never ever get rid of that putter.  Putting is usually the one part of my game that I can constantly rely on (about the only one).    

That pretty much describes exactly my pre shot routine after reading the Putt.  Staring at the back of the ball etc.   this is why a line on the putter usually doesn’t help too.  What I like to align with is the face perpendicular to the start line.  This is also why I love a thin topline.  Not alignment line but the actual top rail of my putter is narrow.  It frames the bal so well.