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"Friendlier" Scottish Courses


Rotting

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I will be traveling to Scotland on a golf trip with a group of 6 next summer. 3 of us are "not quite scratch, but pretty good golfers" and the other 3 are more, should we say, "still learning and improving" though they all *love* golf. My concern is this: I don't want to play a list of courses that give half our group zero chance of enjoying their rounds, spending 90% of their round in the gorse looking for their balls and the like. So, I'd like to sprinkle in some friendlier courses to our trip. We will be starting in St. Andrews, working our way up the eastern coast (Carnoustie to RA to Cruden Bay) then up and around to Inverness (Nairn, Castle Stuart, Dornoch). 

Can you guys recommend 4 or 5 courses that fall into the "friendly" range in those areas. I already have Brora pencilled in as one that meets the criteria. We are going to play 9 courses over 14 days and if I can at least 4 friendly ones in there, I'll be set. The only "locked in" courses are St. Andrews Old (I know there's a handicap req), Cruden Bay, and Royal Dornoch. All other courses I've mentioned are on the candidate list but can be sacrificed if need be.

Thanks for the tips! 

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In Fife you could try Elie and Kinghorn. Hell, I would suggest Elie anyway. The Eden course at St Andrews is a bit more gentle than New or Joob. 

 

Gleneagles Kings and Queens are lovely and a bit easier on higher markers. 

 

On the way to Highlands Pitlochry is a cool hilltop course in a nice town. Good public putting green in town as well. Boat of Garten is a wonderful course that is short and sweet....on the way to the Highlands. 

 

Golspie near Dornoch might be a good option same with Fortrose and Rosemarkie. 

 

 

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The Balcomie course at Crail is very open and not severe. The Eden course at St. Andrews is pretty friendly at 6200 yards. 

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Nairn meets your criteria in the Inverness area. Brora for the Dornoch area. Eden at St. Andrews is pretty open and makes a great “second round” after the Old Course for you or your friends (short drive around the OC hotel to clubhouse). 
 

Pair Nairn with Castle Stuart and Brora/Dornoch. Cruden Bay is more or less out on its own, you could potentially do Royal Aberdeen/ Trump International with it but your friends may suffer somewhat on either of those two. 
 

in the St. Andrews area, you have a variety to choose from. As mentioned by others, Crail, Kingsbarns, and Eden are your best bets that meet your friends criteria. I’ve not played Elie but it gets mentioned a lot as a great option. If your group decides to hit East Lothian or the Ayrshire area, there are also some great options there as well. 

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A few options between Cruden and Nairn would be Inverallochy, Fraserburgh and Cullen.  Cullen has gotten a lot of love recently from the golf youtubers.  Looks like a lot of fun to play.  

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My youngest daughter who was 21 at the time and not highly skilled at golf shot over 100 at Royal Dornoch but …… parred the hardest hole on the course! She navigated The New Course in a lot of strokes but it was plenty inviting. If you can hit the ball reasonably straight on most of even the “name” courses that aren’t tricked up in some way, you’ll have no problems with play or even pace of play. Crail is good for all, so are the Old and New. Struie next to RD is fine. Brora is magical. Play up if it’s an option, courses will be fine, IMO. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

It sounds like you are looking for courses that are forgiving of bad shots, so wide playing corridors, light rough, few penal bunkers, few blind shots and greens that aren't overly complex would be helpful.

 

In Fife I'd suggest (as others already have) the Balcomie course at Crail and Elie

 

In Inverness I'd suggest Nairn and Castle Stuart. These are two really great courses, that could host the pros, but also allow a hacker to have a fun round. Others have suggested Golspie and Brora. Brora has a lot of very high, thick rough and is not as straight forward as the others mentioned. If the high handicappers play Brora, I'd suggest a caddie to help find golf balls. Most of Golspie would fit the bill, except for the four heathland holes (#8-#11) where one can be searching for balls in the heather if not hitting very straight

 

 

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Are there any courses in Scotland that don't fit this criteria?  Particularly the touristy links courses.  They are all made to be played in horrendous wind, so they are relatively forgiving and playable.  This doesn't mean you won't lose a ball or take 5 to get out of a trap, but Scotland is really made for bad golfers.  Especially compared to anything you might play in Florida.  I've only played ~20 courses in Scotland, but I can't think of one that would not be playable for a 20 handicap.  But I can also not think of one that wouldn't be really tough for a scratch on a blustery day.

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11 minutes ago, CMCSGolf said:

Are there any courses in Scotland that don't fit this criteria?  Particularly the touristy links courses.  They are all made to be played in horrendous wind, so they are relatively forgiving and playable.  This doesn't mean you won't lose a ball or take 5 to get out of a trap, but Scotland is really made for bad golfers.  Especially compared to anything you might play in Florida.  I've only played ~20 courses in Scotland, but I can't think of one that would not be playable for a 20 handicap.  But I can also not think of one that wouldn't be really tough for a scratch on a blustery day.

I can think of many links in Scotland that are not easy for 20 hdcp golfers. Troon, Muirfield, Jubilee, Castle, Carnoustie, Dornoch, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay….. Not saying they are unplayable, but they are very stern tests of golf that even mid single digit hdcp golfers find tough.

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8 hours ago, CMCSGolf said:

Are there any courses in Scotland that don't fit this criteria?  Particularly the touristy links courses.  They are all made to be played in horrendous wind, so they are relatively forgiving and playable.  This doesn't mean you won't lose a ball or take 5 to get out of a trap, but Scotland is really made for bad golfers.  Especially compared to anything you might play in Florida.  I've only played ~20 courses in Scotland, but I can't think of one that would not be playable for a 20 handicap.  But I can also not think of one that wouldn't be really tough for a scratch on a blustery day.

you did not play Royal Aberdeen

 

Most Scottish courses you need to know the course to play well, blind shot, run offs in to bunkers etc.

 

Mens Open on Sunday; 100 players, 10 mph wind, dry. best score was 2 over Net he was a +6, 24 NR and it was an easy day! some 13 handicappers were in the 90s, average Net seemed about 85(6 handicap) that submitted a score!

 

Coming from Texas golf, Scottish golf is hard; I can't wait till my month in Houston and getting my handicap down!

 

I played Tuesday and walked in after 7 holes(long walk to the clubhouse) as it was pointless trying to golf - 35mph wind, gusting over 40, heavy rain showers. I lost 3 balls in 7 holes and supposed to be a very low handicap! 

 

Hardest courses in order I have played in the last couple months or so

 

RAGC

Muirfield

North Berwick

Gullane no 1

Cruden Bay

Aboyne

Hopeman

Deeside

Ballater

Banchory

Edited by scott_Donald
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8 hours ago, scott_Donald said:

you did not play Royal Aberdeen

 

Most Scottish courses you need to know the course to play well, blind shot, run offs in to bunkers etc.

 

Mens Open on Sunday; 100 players, 10 mph wind, dry. best score was 2 over Net he was a +6, 24 NR and it was an easy day! some 13 handicappers were in the 90s, average Net seemed about 85(6 handicap) that submitted a score!

 

Coming from Texas golf, Scottish golf is hard; I can't wait till my month in Houston and getting my handicap down!

 

I played Tuesday and walked in after 7 holes(long walk to the clubhouse) as it was pointless trying to golf - 35mph wind, gusting over 40, heavy rain showers. I lost 3 balls in 7 holes and supposed to be a very low handicap! 

 

Hardest courses in order I have played in the last couple months or so

 

RAGC

Muirfield

North Berwick

Gullane no 1

Cruden Bay

Aboyne

Hopeman

Deeside

Ballater

Banchory

 

Literally every course in the world would be tough in those conditions.  And if you have to be playing, it's probably a lot easier in Scotland than Florida or Texas where there are houses with OB on many many courses.  I've played Carnoustie, Royal Dornoch, Troon and they are all very hard and shooting a low score is extremely tough.  But Carnoustie and Troon could  definitely be navigated without losing many balls.  The gorse at RD can be rough and is everywhere, so I'lll grant that.  

 

I don't think any 25 handicapper will play well and shoot their handicap at any of these rounds.  But my point was that they could get around shooting 100 and lose 1-2 balls on the vast majority of Scottish courses.  If you were to play similarly regarded course in the US, you would lose 3x as many balls and have less fun (in my opinion).  Scotland punishes you without losing balls in a way America does not.

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16 hours ago, CMCSGolf said:

 

Literally every course in the world would be tough in those conditions.  And if you have to be playing, it's probably a lot easier in Scotland than Florida or Texas where there are houses with OB on many many courses.  I've played Carnoustie, Royal Dornoch, Troon and they are all very hard and shooting a low score is extremely tough.  But Carnoustie and Troon could  definitely be navigated without losing many balls.  The gorse at RD can be rough and is everywhere, so I'lll grant that.  

 

I don't think any 25 handicapper will play well and shoot their handicap at any of these rounds.  But my point was that they could get around shooting 100 and lose 1-2 balls on the vast majority of Scottish courses.  If you were to play similarly regarded course in the US, you would lose 3x as many balls and have less fun (in my opinion).  Scotland punishes you without losing balls in a way America does not.

 

Well you should see how many ball I have lost this year vs last year in Texas.

 

Yes I was playing better last year but I am well above average at golf. 

 

I took three guests 7,8,11 handicaps to Royal Aberdeen last weak, 65 degrees and no wind and the best round was a 83 from them. They really struggled and commented how hard it was with the hard greens and very narrow fairways. two of them were from Vegas who spend 6 months a year traveling the world golfing and the other a member at Wentworth! If you had seen Royal Aberdeen in 2019 where you missed the fairway, you lost a ball it was not fun, this year the setup is more fair but still very hard. I played out of Memorial Park in Houston where the pros struggled at the Houston Open and find it far easier than a lot of Scottish courses.

 

Links golf is very different to an American Course general setup; at Memorial I just hit driver as far as I could and take aim at the hard for American standards greens which to me were very soft.

 

In the end its all opinion but I can prove it with my own personal scores as to which courses are harder for me! 

 

How did you score here vs your home course?

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2 hours ago, CMCSGolf said:

 

Literally every course in the world would be tough in those conditions.  And if you have to be playing, it's probably a lot easier in Scotland than Florida or Texas where there are houses with OB on many many courses.  I've played Carnoustie, Royal Dornoch, Troon and they are all very hard and shooting a low score is extremely tough.  But Carnoustie and Troon could  definitely be navigated without losing many balls.  The gorse at RD can be rough and is everywhere, so I'lll grant that.  

 

I don't think any 25 handicapper will play well and shoot their handicap at any of these rounds.  But my point was that they could get around shooting 100 and lose 1-2 balls on the vast majority of Scottish courses.  If you were to play similarly regarded course in the US, you would lose 3x as many balls and have less fun (in my opinion).  Scotland punishes you without losing balls in a way America does not.

We must have played different courses so let’s agree to disagree. Troon has some of the most narrow fairways in golf period with very penal bunkers and deep rough, gorse and heather. Not to mention the 9yd wide green on the postage stamp with the coffin bunker and 30ft drop off on the other 300 degrees of the green surface. In general fwys are much more narrow in Scotland vs USA with rough that can be knee to waist high, bunkers that are very deep and punishing, then of course you have gorse and heather. Throw in the bounce and it adds yet another challenge. I have a 12 and 18hdcp in our trip group, and they struggle much more when we go to Ireland and Scotland. A 25hdcp player has a much better chance of shooting near his hdcp at USA courses than Scotland. 

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1 hour ago, scott_Donald said:

 

Well you should see how many ball I have lost this year vs last year in Texas.

 

Yes I was playing better last year but I well above average at golf. 

 

I took three guests 7,8,11 handicaps to Royal Aberdeen last weak, 65 degrees and no wind and the best round was a 83 from them. They really struggled and commented how hard it was with the hard greens and very narrow fairways. two of them were from Vegas who spend 6 months a year traveling the world golfing and the other a member at Wentworth! If you had seen Royal Aberdeen in 2019 where you missed the fairway, you lost a ball it was not fun, this year the setup is more fair but still very hard. I played out of Memorial Park in Houston where the pros struggled at the Houston Open and find it far easier than a lot of Scottish courses.

 

Links golf is very different to an American Course general setup; at Memorial I just hit driver as far as I could and take aim at the hard for American standards greens which to me were very soft.

 

In the end its all opinion but I can prove it with my own personal scores as to which courses are harder for me! 

 

How did you score here vs your home course?

Do you consider Royal Aberdeen to be typical of Scottish links golf?  It sounds far different from most I have seen if you are losing balls in rough off the fairway.  Memorial Park is probably not the greatest representative of American golf. Its renovation was by Doak, a guy who loves Scotland and borrows a lot of inspiration from courses over there.

 

To answer your question, I scored worse in Scotland because it's tough to get used to the firm turf in a week and the wind can brutal as noted.  I don't think Scottish courses are necessarily easier that US courses, but I think they are far more playable and you lose fewer balls on average.  My point is not which courses are harder, but that a 20 handicap can get around and enjoy himself without losing two sleeves at the vast majority of Scottish courses.

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8 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

We must have played different courses so let’s agree to disagree. Troon has some of the most narrow fairways in golf period with very penal bunkers and deep rough, gorse and heather. Not to mention the 9yd wide green on the postage stamp with the coffin bunker and 30ft drop off on the other 300 degrees of the green surface. In general fwys are much more narrow in Scotland vs USA with rough that can be knee to waist high, bunkers that are very deep and punishing, then of course you have gorse and heather. Throw in the bounce and it adds yet another challenge. I have a 12 and 18hdcp in our trip group, and they struggle much more when we go to Ireland and Scotland. A 25hdcp player has a much better chance of shooting near his hdcp at USA courses than Scotland. 

I think we're talking past each other a bit.  I have no opinion on which courses are easier to shoot your handicap.  Could be either?  My point is on getting around the course and not losing a ton of balls or having to pick up.  Bunkers there are tough, but you won't lose a ball. The greens there are absolutely wild and you'll 3 putt all day, but won't lose a ball.  Miss the postage stamp right and you'll make 8, but won't lose a ball.  A 25 handicap will shoot 110 at Troon, but I think they can get through the course without an X more likely than they will at your average Florida or TX course.  

 

It's not my experience that all the grass just off fairways is waist high and a lost ball.  The fairway may be narrower, but the corridor where you can play a shot from is generally wider from my experience.  Royal Dornoch is the one course I played where the gorse ate a lot of my balls and it felt tight.  But in general, there is ample room to play through the fescue that is more wispy and playable, thought not ideal.

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5 minutes ago, CMCSGolf said:

I think we're talking past each other a bit.  I have no opinion on which courses are easier to shoot your handicap.  Could be either?  My point is on getting around the course and not losing a ton of balls or having to pick up.  Bunkers there are tough, but you won't lose a ball. The greens there are absolutely wild and you'll 3 putt all day, but won't lose a ball.  Miss the postage stamp right and you'll make 8, but won't lose a ball.  A 25 handicap will shoot 110 at Troon, but I think they can get through the course without an X more likely than they will at your average Florida or TX course.  

 

It's not my experience that all the grass just off fairways is waist high and a lost ball.  The fairway may be narrower, but the corridor where you can play a shot from is generally wider from my experience.  Royal Dornoch is the one course I played where the gorse ate a lot of my balls and it felt tight.  But in general, there is ample room to play through the fescue that is more wispy and playable, thought not ideal.

Most 25 or even 16 hdcp players aren’t missing just off the fairway. A tee shot 20yds left or right of a fwy are as good as lost.  All the pics below were taken from tee shots no more than 10yds off the fwy. Was lucky to find any of them. Another 10yds further off the fwy and it was knee high or waist high rough, or gorse. Even rough around the greens can be very severe. I watched a 12 hdcp lose 8 balls at Troon. I play with him every week and he never has lost near that over here. I’ll just agree to disagree, but offline shots are punished much more severely in Scotland and Ireland than they are here.

81208448-3014-4F6F-AC40-68411704C354.jpeg

2DD07DF5-96CC-48C9-8A13-2A16B4794E12.jpeg

5EAD4166-E78F-4618-92BC-6211B4A61412.jpeg

E368867F-984E-4ABF-A338-AF3CE2A723CE.jpeg

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49 minutes ago, CMCSGolf said:

@hammergolf I agree those lies are terrible and likely lost balls.  I've found those lies to be relatively rare and the long grass is usually more playable than that.  Better than a pond or a backyard, which is what you find in the US a lot.

 

 

Did you play Kingsbarns? Castle Stuart? 

 

1 hour ago, CMCSGolf said:

Do you consider Royal Aberdeen to be typical of Scottish links golf?  It sounds far different from most I have seen if you are losing balls in rough off the fairway.  Memorial Park is probably not the greatest representative of American golf. Its renovation was by Doak, a guy who loves Scotland and borrows a lot of inspiration from courses over there.

 

To answer your question, I scored worse in Scotland because it's tough to get used to the firm turf in a week and the wind can brutal as noted.  I don't think Scottish courses are necessarily easier that US courses, but I think they are far more playable and you lose fewer balls on average.  My point is not which courses are harder, but that a 20 handicap can get around and enjoy himself without losing two sleeves at the vast majority of Scottish courses.

Well it is the 6th Oldest in the world, formed in 1780 so yes I assume it would be very typical as this is what a lot of courses were based on.

 

Here is 1 and 18 yesterday from the putting green, don't miss the fairway on either!

IMG_5437.jpeg.086533a3c64510d4f4547eb07f976580.jpeg

 

Agree Doak did a course like Renaissance but that is not really a true traditional links course and to me plays the same as Memorial Park but with different grasses. I am looking forward to playing there for a good change in November as my residence pass still works! T rump Aberdeen is stupid hard with wide fairways and right now terrible green! lots of balls are lost there daily!

 

 

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I'v played both Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart. CS this summer and I don't remember the lies being terrible there.  The holes down by the water on the back played tight with gorse (10-12?), but otherwise I thought it was plenty wide.  

 

The Old Course at St. Andrews is really wide and anyone can get around there.  I haven't seen super think rough where you'd lose a ball 10 feet off the fairway there.  As with hammer, I guess we've just seen different parts of the courses.

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I found the rough at Troon and RA to be among the most challenging in Scotland but the amount of Spring/early Summer rain will also influence the difficulty. TOC will never have difficult rough because of the amount of traffic the course gets. The difficulty there for 20+ hcp’s are the bunkers.  The OP was looking for less difficult but still known courses for his partners. Troon, RA and even Cruden Bay could be pretty tough for them-Playable but could be a very long and frustrating day. 


They may also want to consider a caddy for a few of the difficult/moderately difficult courses. They can help with lines, finding wayward shots and general course management. 
 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/13/2022 at 6:45 PM, Rotting said:

I will be traveling to Scotland on a golf trip with a group of 6 next summer. 3 of us are "not quite scratch, but pretty good golfers" and the other 3 are more, should we say, "still learning and improving" though they all *love* golf. My concern is this: I don't want to play a list of courses that give half our group zero chance of enjoying their rounds, spending 90% of their round in the gorse looking for their balls and the like. So, I'd like to sprinkle in some friendlier courses to our trip. We will be starting in St. Andrews, working our way up the eastern coast (Carnoustie to RA to Cruden Bay) then up and around to Inverness (Nairn, Castle Stuart, Dornoch). 

Can you guys recommend 4 or 5 courses that fall into the "friendly" range in those areas. I already have Brora pencilled in as one that meets the criteria. We are going to play 9 courses over 14 days and if I can at least 4 friendly ones in there, I'll be set. The only "locked in" courses are St. Andrews Old (I know there's a handicap req), Cruden Bay, and Royal Dornoch. All other courses I've mentioned are on the candidate list but can be sacrificed if need be.

Thanks for the tips! 

 

My tips are all for the stretch between Cruden Bay and Inverness.  Duff House Royal (fantastic parkland layout designed by Augusta's Dr MacKenzie, with incredible green complexes), Cullen (quirky, short links) and Spey Bay (an old links with faded grandeur - conditioning isn't modern standard but the green free reflects this and it's great fun) are all well worth a stop, as is the 9-hole Covesea course which appears on some Top 100 lists in Scotland despite being a modest little holiday course.  Of these, only Spey Bay has much in the way of gorse/rough - and even then it's not as much as the big/famous courses.

 

But most of all, Moray Golf Club in Lossiemouth is a great members' club with two courses (Old and New).  Both are challenging enough for good golfers but manageable for improving ones, and you will be made very welcome. There is some gorse, but it has been cut well back and there is room on both courses to miss off the tee.  Moray has hosted elite amateur events (e.g. Home Internationals). The Old course also happens to have one of the very best finishing holes in Scotland - see pics...

 

0005Moray.jpg

 

0001Moray.jpg

Edited by ColinKelvin
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20 hours ago, El Gringo said:

I agree, Moray Old is a very good course and a hospitable club. However, last I heard (and this was the case when I was there), the fairways on both courses are in very poor nick. 

You are right that the fairways were bad coming out of lockdown and had lost a lot of grass cover - however, I was there last month for a few days with friends, and played both courses.  I'd say the Old Course is 80% recovered (a new irrigation system was installed a while back with funds from the RAF) and the New is being irrigated and worked on this winter and spring.  I'd expect them to be playing really well next year.

 

Also, the greens on the Old were superb - possibly the best I have played on this year (and I've covered Turnberry x2, Troon, Carnoustie, and Nairn).

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17 minutes ago, ColinKelvin said:

You are right that the fairways were bad coming out of lockdown and had lost a lot of grass cover - however, I was there last month for a few days with friends, and played both courses.  I'd say the Old Course is 80% recovered (a new irrigation system was installed a while back with funds from the RAF) and the New is being irrigated and worked on this winter and spring.  I'd expect them to be playing really well next year.

 

Also, the greens on the Old were superb - possibly the best I have played on this year (and I've covered Turnberry x2, Troon, Carnoustie, and Nairn).

That is excellent news! 

 

If folks decide to visit Moray, talk with secretary about a two day deal to play both courses. 

 

Links Lodge across the street is very good. They also manage a few flats a few doors down.

Edited by El Gringo
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