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SW when moving to midsize grip


mike_witzmann
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Hey!

 

I've searched regarding this topic on golfwrx but am seeing conflicting opinions/old posts so just want to see if I can get an updated answer here.

 

I am rebuilding my current irons ( bent KBS shaft tips ) but I am confused about what SW to target when I am rebuilding.

I was fit for these clubs at D4, when I took them apart pretty much every club had a 2g shaft tip weight ( not every club was D4 either ).

 

I am switching from a standard z grip cord to a midsize Z grip cord 50g vs 57g

 

My original plan was to just reuse those weights but of course with the heavier midsize grips the SW is now off ( lighter by about 3-4 SW points )

 

So the big question is, do I SW these clubs dry and add in a 6-8g weight to get the SW to D4 using midsize grips, or SW them using the original standard grips and target D4 like original?

 

Bonus question: do you guys SW the end of the shaft 3/16 or 1/4" from the end of the scale to account for playing length when built?

 

thanks!

Mike

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Heavier grips act as counter weights on the scale, but not in real life. The extra weight is sitting in your hands, which can be thought of as part of the fulcrum (you, the golfer). Because the weight is at the fulcrum, it will not act as a counter balancing weight during the actual swing.

 

If you are targeting a specific swing weight, and using a calculator, input the standard 50g for grip weight.

 

If you are not using a calculator, and using a swingweight scale, tape a 50g standard grip onto the butt end of the shaft, mount on scale, and balance as you like.

 

I am also of the school of thought that tip weights are the worst way to add weight, and only appropriate if the amount of lead tape used on each individual club would be prohibitive and you're absolutely sure you want that exact weight in that exact place. Lead tape is cheap, not permanent, sticks very well when applied properly to a clean surface, and infinitely adjustable. I have never had lead tape fall off either. Golfworks high density lead tape is 1g/inch, a 2g tip weight can be replaced by two 1in strips of high density lead tape, positioned wherever you prefer on the clubhead to adjust feel, closure rate, and/or stability. Some people say they don't like the look of lead tape on their club heads, but personally I think that's silly because you don't see it address anyways and lead tape on my clubs has been a conversation starter with some of the better players I am around.

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Agreed with these guys, although i'm concerned that you're now off by 3-4 points despite only having about 1.5 points worth of potential swingweight reduction from the grip (5g per point). Is that without the tip weights as well?

When swing weighting you do have to account for the additional length of the grip (normally about 1/8-1/4") which could also explain your swingweights being lower than they should be. Keep grips that you've cut off around to dry fit on to the shaft for swingweighting purposes. Otherwise I would build them to to D4 with standard grips and ignore the slight measured drop that the midsize grips will create, or swingweight them to around D2.5 with the midsize grips. 

This is all assuming btw that the original swingweight fit is what's best for you, which you mentioned wasn't even accurate to begin with which calls that into question a bit. This might be a good idea to experiment yourself to find your ideal swingweight. 

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1. Are you putting the same spec KBS shafts back in?
2. Did you really trust your fitter and hit the clubs well? 
 

If so keep your tip weights in and trust the fit. 

 

When you take it all apart, I would index the weight of each club head and adjust to get even spacing. 7ish gram progression. 
 

If some heads are comparatively light add weight to those heads. Or if a club is comparatively heavy take that tip weight out. Put it all together and your swing weights should be pretty consistent. At least more consistent than they are now. 
 

If you are installing parallel tip shafts you can weight sort those too (heaviest in PW). 
You can weight sort your grips too. 

 

I’d be more concerned about a consistent SW weight than if they were to drop a point or so. 
I wouldn’t worry about the increased grip weight. 

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9 hours ago, Cwebb said:

Swing-weight them with a standard weight 50-52g grip.

 

Or better yet, swing weight them before putting any grips on them at all and just use a target 9 pts higher.  e.g. E3 with no grip instead of D4 with a 50 gm grip.

 

 

1 hour ago, jarediogolf said:

1. Are you putting the same spec KBS shafts back in?

 

Good question.   Any change in shaft weight might mean you need to refit yourself for swing weight.

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8 hours ago, jarediogolf said:

1. Are you putting the same spec KBS shafts back in?

Yes, same length and same shaft
2. Did you really trust your fitter and hit the clubs well? 
I did hit the clubs well, And I am glad I am learning how to for this myself so in the future I need to only trust me 🙂

If so keep your tip weights in and trust the fit. 

 

When you take it all apart, I would index the weight of each club head and adjust to get even spacing. 7ish gram progression. 
 

If some heads are comparatively light add weight to those heads. Or if a club is comparatively heavy take that tip weight out. Put it all together and your swing weights should be pretty consistent. At least more consistent than they are now. 
Good point, I am looking for consistency over anything else

If you are installing parallel tip shafts you can weight sort those too (heaviest in PW). 
You can weight sort your grips too. 

 

I’d be more concerned about a consistent SW weight than if they were to drop a point or so. 
I wouldn’t worry about the increased grip weight. 

 

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11 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Agreed with these guys, although i'm concerned that you're now off by 3-4 points despite only having about 1.5 points worth of potential swingweight reduction from the grip (5g per point). Is that without the tip weights as well?
Correct, without any tip weights
When swing weighting you do have to account for the additional length of the grip (normally about 1/8-1/4") which could also explain your swingweights being lower than they should be. Keep grips that you've cut off around to dry fit on to the shaft for swingweighting purposes. Otherwise I would build them to to D4 with standard grips and ignore the slight measured drop that the midsize grips will create, or swingweight them to around D2.5 with the midsize grips. 

This is all assuming btw that the original swingweight fit is what's best for you, which you mentioned wasn't even accurate to begin with which calls that into question a bit. This might be a good idea to experiment yourself to find your ideal swingweight. 

 

TaylorMade Stealth 10.5 - Fujikura Ventus Black Velocore 7X

TaylorMade Stealth 3W - Fujikura Ventus Black Velocore 7X

Srixon DI 19* - Fujikura Ventus Black HB Velocore 10TX

Srixon ZX7 4-AW - KBS $Taper 130X

Cleveland RTX ZipCore 54/58 - KBS $Taper 130X

Scotty Cameron Select fastback

Golf Pride Z Grip cord

Srixon Z Star XV

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8 hours ago, jarediogolf said:

1. Are you putting the same spec KBS shafts back in?
2. Did you really trust your fitter and hit the clubs well? 
 

If so keep your tip weights in and trust the fit. 

 

When you take it all apart, I would index the weight of each club head and adjust to get even spacing. 7ish gram progression. 
So would you do this on top of making them d4? confused on this concept but interested because it seems more precise.

Are there any tutorials on this that you know of?

If some heads are comparatively light add weight to those heads. Or if a club is comparatively heavy take that tip weight out. Put it all together and your swing weights should be pretty consistent. At least more consistent than they are now. 
 

If you are installing parallel tip shafts you can weight sort those too (heaviest in PW). 
You can weight sort your grips too. 

 

I’d be more concerned about a consistent SW weight than if they were to drop a point or so. 
I wouldn’t worry about the increased grip weight. 

 

TaylorMade Stealth 10.5 - Fujikura Ventus Black Velocore 7X

TaylorMade Stealth 3W - Fujikura Ventus Black Velocore 7X

Srixon DI 19* - Fujikura Ventus Black HB Velocore 10TX

Srixon ZX7 4-AW - KBS $Taper 130X

Cleveland RTX ZipCore 54/58 - KBS $Taper 130X

Scotty Cameron Select fastback

Golf Pride Z Grip cord

Srixon Z Star XV

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1 hour ago, mike_witzmann said:

So would you do this on top of making them d4? confused on this concept but interested because it seems more precise.

Are there any tutorials on this that you know of?


I’m sure some of the other more experienced guys can chime in. I let the components dictate the SW and then adjust from there (if needed). My comment was regarding more consistency in the build since you said the swing weights are all over. 
 

There are many ways to index and weight sort. Not likely a wrong way. 
 

Id start with measuring the weight of each head and look for the anomalies. 
 

Let’s say you weigh the heads and they come in at (with the tip weights): 

9 iron = 288 5 gram gap from 8 iron

8 iron = 283 

7 iron = 274 9 gram gap from 8 iron

 

then remove the two gram tip weight from the 8 to get back to 7 gram spacing or whatever the spacing ends up being to get consistent head weight gaps through the set. 

You will likely know what to do once everything is weighed out. 

 

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5 wood 19.5* (Cobra F7) Fuji Pro 65 stiff 41”

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C721: 5-PW TT Elevate 95 Stiff

48* Mack Daddy CB Hi-rev 2.0 105

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On 9/19/2022 at 7:26 PM, mike_witzmann said:

Hey!

 

I've searched regarding this topic on golfwrx but am seeing conflicting opinions/old posts so just want to see if I can get an updated answer here.

 

I am rebuilding my current irons ( bent KBS shaft tips ) but I am confused about what SW to target when I am rebuilding.

I was fit for these clubs at D4, when I took them apart pretty much every club had a 2g shaft tip weight ( not every club was D4 either ).

 

I am switching from a standard z grip cord to a midsize Z grip cord 50g vs 57g

 

My original plan was to just reuse those weights but of course with the heavier midsize grips the SW is now off ( lighter by about 3-4 SW points )

 

So the big question is, do I SW these clubs dry and add in a 6-8g weight to get the SW to D4 using midsize grips, or SW them using the original standard grips and target D4 like original?

 

Bonus question: do you guys SW the end of the shaft 3/16 or 1/4" from the end of the scale to account for playing length when built?

 

thanks!

Mike

I’ve found that the best way to try to achieve a specific swingweight was to dry fit all the clubs to check swingweights and adjust with tip weights. I use a old grip that I’ve cut and slipped on to dry fit. I’ve found this to be the easiest method for me and can be within a .5 point of target. I’ve also used Stuart’s method in the past.

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I know most of the above posts suggest ignore the extra weight of the grip and they are technically probably right but personally I hated the feel of the extra weight from a midsize grip so use standard grips with added tape build up instead.

 

The extra grip weight threw me off and created a counterbalanced feel to me so therefore I felt I needed to add more weight to the head to get the same balance (.....swingweight) as before. This meant I added weight to both the grip and the head which raised the static weight quite abit which also didn't sit right. Some people are more senstive to static weight than swingweight. Anyway what I'm saying is that I think it's personal feel with midsize grips and you may want to experiment with one club fitted up to test first or maybe one with standard, one with midsize to compare before you assemble the whole set. Easy to pull apart and refit if you don't like the first effort.

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30 minutes ago, Skipperation said:

I know most of the above posts suggest ignore the extra weight of the grip and they are technically probably right but personally I hated the feel of the extra weight from a midsize grip so use standard grips with added tape build up instead.

 

Actually, that typically wouldn't work for that type of problem.   It's much more common that the weight of the extra tape will be very close to the difference in weight between the standard and mid-size grip. 

 

e.g. for the build up tape I use (0.010") the 6 extra wraps needed to get the grip to midsize (+1/16") weighs ~10 gm.  So (for me) no difference at all between using a 50 gm standard grip +6 wraps vs using a 60 gm mid-size grip.

 

But there are a lot of different types of tape and grips so there can be exceptions.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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