is my shaft causing bad habits?

[newgolfer89]

we all know the saying that a poor carpenter blames his tools but i started thinking that i might be developing bad habits

 

started playing golf 1 year ago (off the rack pxg 0311p, dg 105 stiff, d2 sw, standard) and i've been working to improve my overall ball striking, lower launch,  peak height, and spin. i've researched that launch conditions are mainly technique > equipment but i also don't want my current equipment to cause bad habits/moves. 

 

seems to be a lot of contradictory information about what happens when you changes shaft flex and shaft weight which makes me realize that everyones golf swing and the way they react to changes in equipment differs. i know the best thing for me is to get a custom fitting but i would prefer to experiment at home.

 

8 iron 34* (stats collected from BLP)

hittting off cce mat

slightly aggressive transition

miss is mainly right

chs: 98 mph

carry: 170-180

spin: 7500-9000

launch: 20-22

peak height: 130-140

path: +2-3

aoa: -3-4

 

my efficiency is pretty low which will take alot of practice but i was thinking to get a heavier and stiffer shaft to hopefully help my strike be a little more consistent? my biggest worry is that my right miss will be worse with a stiffer shaft.

 

i'm going to buy a couple shafts in 8 iron length and thinking to try modus 105x (112g) and projectx io 6.5 (115g). do you think project x lz 6.5 (125g) will be too stiff and heavy coming from 103g?

 

any recommendations are appreciated!

[Rbsiedsc]

1 hour ago, newgolfer89 said:

we all know the saying that a poor carpenter blames his tools but i started thinking that i might be developing bad habits

 

started playing golf 1 year ago (off the rack pxg 0311p, dg 105 stiff, d2 sw, standard) and i've been working to improve my overall ball striking, lower launch,  peak height, and spin. i've researched that launch conditions are mainly technique > equipment but i also don't want my current equipment to cause bad habits/moves. 

 

seems to be a lot of contradictory information about what happens when you changes shaft flex and shaft weight which makes me realize that everyones golf swing and the way they react to changes in equipment differs. i know the best thing for me is to get a custom fitting but i would prefer to experiment at home.

 

8 iron 34* (stats collected from BLP)

hittting off cce mat

slightly aggressive transition

miss is mainly right

chs: 98 mph

carry: 170-180

spin: 7500-9000

launch: 20-22

peak height: 130-140

path: +2-3

aoa: -3-4

 

my efficiency is pretty low which will take alot of practice but i was thinking to get a heavier and stiffer shaft to hopefully help my strike be a little more consistent? my biggest worry is that my right miss will be worse with a stiffer shaft.

 

i'm going to buy a couple shafts in 8 iron length and thinking to try modus 105x (112g) and projectx io 6.5 (115g). do you think project x lz 6.5 (125g) will be too stiff and heavy coming from 103g?

 

any recommendations are appreciated!

dude, you hit an 8i 170-180. that is tour level distance. Stuart and Howard will likely chime in here on what you can try before committing. best thing it to get fit. for your right miss, you might need to check your lie angles. with your carry it sounds like you are not hitting swipey fades.

[newgolfer89]

21 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

dude, you hit an 8i 170-180. that is tour level distance. Stuart and Howard will likely chime in here on what you can try before committing. best thing it to get fit. for your right miss, you might need to check your lie angles. with your carry it sounds like you are not hitting swipey fades.

 

haha thanks, looking forward to hearing from stuart and howard. please let me know if you guys need any other info. 

 

my 8i is actually 34* so basically a traditional 7i.. a big concern is that my efficiency is so low. i think i should. should be launching the ball lower and lowering the peak height since my 8i is basically a 7i. does this means i am scooping and presenting a lot more dynamic loft causing the launch and peak height to increase (130-140 ft seems really high) and if so could it be due to my equipment? i don't want to blame my equipment but i also don't want to change stuff in my swing to compensate.

 

at this point in my game i'm just trying to hit the ball straight. my natural ball flight is a fade though. started getting the occasional draw as i've been trying some new things

Edited September 20, 2022 by newgolfer89

[Rbsiedsc]

3 minutes ago, newgolfer89 said:

 

haha thanks, looking forward to hearing from stuart and howard. please let me know if you guys need any other info. 

 

my 8i is actually 34* so basically a traditional 7i.. a big concern is that my efficiency is so low. i think i should. should be launching the ball lower and lowering the peak height since my 8i is basically a 7i. does this means i am scooping and presenting a lot more dynamic loft causing the launch and peak height to increase (130-140 ft seems really high) and if so could it be due to my equipment? i don't want to blame my equipment but i also don't want to change stuff in my swing to compensate.

 

at this point in my game i'm just trying to hit the ball straight. my natural ball flight is a fade though. started getting the occasional draw as i've been trying some new things

depends on your numbers. Launch angle, what are your ball speed numbers? How do you know you are low efficiency? The top smash (1.5) is reserved mainly for drivers. Your 8i loft is in line with modern lofts so don't worry there. With a negative AOA, you aren't scooping. Were these range balls?

[Z1ggy16]

98mph 8i is a big boi swing. With slightly aggressive transition you could probably be in X7 or C taper. Modus 105x is a pool noodle for that swing. 

 

Also, I don't recall the exact ideal efficiency for an 8i but at that speed you really don't want it too high. Prob 1.36 or so is fine.

[Valtiel]

I don't want to be dismissive of the equipment angle, but as @Z1ggy16 said, you are swinging FAST. Like, elite tour level fast if those numbers are accurate. One of the biggest struggles with starting golf at a later age (basically anything after your teen years) is that you'll struggle with fighting against the unintuitive fundamentals of the golf swing that you will be strong enough to consistently break while *also* being strong/fast enough to compensate for. It's a double-edged sword in many ways and i'd love to see video of your swing to confirm/expand on that. Reining in a lot of raw speed that comes from either previous sports experience (baseball, hockey etc) or just natural talent is a big part of building a functional golf swing as an adult starting out. It requires a lot of effort and discipline. 

This again isn't to dismiss the equipment stuff, because on paper the shaft you're swinging is likely WAY too soft for your speed, but the right miss and concerns about it are going to be far more related to technique and fundamentals at this stage. Getting a stiffer and heavier shaft to try out is a good idea at your speed, just don't worry about the miss for now. 👍

[NZ315]

IMO I say LZ 6.5 125g will be fine. Slow down your swing and improve your efficiency levels. The ball will fly far with a slight slower controlled swing.

So what sports did you or do you play? Myself being a hockey player we tend to swing well with good speed. I found I play my best when I keep a good tempo and swing within myself. Don’t over swing, swing smooth , the ball will fly. Let the club do some work for. 

[newgolfer89]

44 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

depends on your numbers. Launch angle, what are your ball speed numbers? How do you know you are low efficiency? The top smash (1.5) is reserved mainly for drivers. Your 8i loft is in line with modern lofts so don't worry there. With a negative AOA, you aren't scooping. Were these range balls?

 

ahh gotcha. thanks thats re-assuring about the scooping. i must be presenting too much loft at impact. i was thinking this could be because i stop rotating my body or the flex of the shaft kicking but would expect a left miss if that was what was going on.

 

using the BLP launch monitor and hitting into a net in my backyard with pro vs.

efficiency is usually only 1.26-1.3 (usually the really good hits are only 1.33 on full swing. doing 1/2 swing impact drills i'm able to get it up higher though)

 

11 minutes ago, Z1ggy16 said:

98mph 8i is a big boi swing. With slightly aggressive transition you could probably be in X7 or C taper. Modus 105x is a pool noodle for that swing. 

 

Also, I don't recall the exact ideal efficiency for an 8i but at that speed you really don't want it too high. Prob 1.36 or so is fine.

 

i've been comparing my 8i too 7i stats but 1.36 would be awesome..my best full swings are only 1.33. 

my speed is probably artificially inflated because im using a 103g shaft haha. my speed will only go down once i switch to a heavier and stiffer shaft. 

i'm not familiar with how a shaft feels when its loaded but have read a lot of people on this forum say that c taper are heavy and hard to load

 

4 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

I don't want to be dismissive of the equipment angle, but as @Z1ggy16 said, you are swinging FAST. Like, elite tour level fast if those numbers are accurate. One of the biggest struggles with starting golf at a later age (basically anything after your teen years) is that you'll struggle with fighting against the unintuitive fundamentals of the golf swing that you will be strong enough to consistently break while *also* being strong/fast enough to compensate for. It's a double-edged sword in many ways and i'd love to see video of your swing to confirm/expand on that. Reining in a lot of raw speed that comes from either previous sports experience (baseball, hockey etc) or just natural talent is a big part of building a functional golf swing as an adult starting out. It requires a lot of effort and discipline. 

This again isn't to dismiss the equipment stuff, because on paper the shaft you're swinging is likely WAY too soft for your speed, but the right miss and concerns about it are going to be far more related to technique and fundamentals at this stage. Getting a stiffer and heavier shaft to try out is a good idea at your speed, just don't worry about the miss for now. 👍

 

sounds good thank you. i definitely think that alot of the launch conditions are technique which i need to improve especially because i've never played junior golf and all my learning is from free youtube videos. but was thinking if it would be better to change shafts so that i am instilling good habits vs compensating. 

 

i'm only using a BLP in my backyard which uses only 1 sticker on the club face so wouldn't be surprised if numbers were off (especially judging by the reactions of you guys.. i'm definitely not a tour level player, i started a year ago lol). sorry what do you mean by you will be strong enough to consistently break? i've been filming myself and chasing positions i see on youtube videos and came to realization that i started golf way too late and its actually impossible for me to do. now that i have a launch monitor i've been trying to adjust my swing based on ball flight and data but i still want a decent looking golf swing lol.

 

 

[Z1ggy16]

1 hour ago, newgolfer89 said:

 

ahh gotcha. thanks thats re-assuring about the scooping. i must be presenting too much loft at impact. i was thinking this could be because i stop rotating my body or the flex of the shaft kicking but would expect a left miss if that was what was going on.

 

using the BLP launch monitor and hitting into a net in my backyard with pro vs.

efficiency is usually only 1.26-1.3 (usually the really good hits are only 1.33 on full swing. doing 1/2 swing impact drills i'm able to get it up higher though)

 

 

i've been comparing my 8i too 7i stats but 1.36 would be awesome..my best full swings are only 1.33. 

my speed is probably artificially inflated because im using a 103g shaft haha. my speed will only go down once i switch to a heavier and stiffer shaft. 

i'm not familiar with how a shaft feels when its loaded but have read a lot of people on this forum say that c taper are heavy and hard to load

 

 

sounds good thank you. i definitely think that alot of the launch conditions are technique which i need to improve especially because i've never played junior golf and all my learning is from free youtube videos. but was thinking if it would be better to change shafts so that i am instilling good habits vs compensating. 

 

i'm only using a BLP in my backyard which uses only 1 sticker on the club face so wouldn't be surprised if numbers were off (especially judging by the reactions of you guys.. i'm definitely not a tour level player, i started a year ago lol). sorry what do you mean by you will be strong enough to consistently break? i've been filming myself and chasing positions i see on youtube videos and came to realization that i started golf way too late and its actually impossible for me to do. now that i have a launch monitor i've been trying to adjust my swing based on ball flight and data but i still want a decent looking golf swing lol.

 

 

To comment on your response to my post -

 

It probably won't go down as much as you think. 112g to say 125-130g is only 15-18g or so. Think of physically how much mass that is when you scoop say, protein powder or whatever. Distributed over the 36 inches or so of the mid to short iron shaft, I don't think a strong player is going to swing that much slower. Even if you slowed down to 96mph... that's still faster than probably 99% of all players lol. You're hitting an 8i like 40 yards shorter than the average golfer hits driver.

 

And TBH 1.33 - 1.36 is fine. The reason being that you're not struggling for distance... a 170-180 8i is massive for traditional lofts. If you went over 1.4, imagine what happens when it's a little wet out, or you catch a little grass between the ball and face. 180 turns into 200 and you're over the green, maybe taking a drop.

 

I was in your shoes 6 years ago, when I first started to get serious about golf. Former college baseball player, having speed was pretty easy. The #1 thing I wish I'd discovered 6 years ago was my current coach. Don't screw around with Youtube vids and such, everything you read online isn't one thing; And that's tailored to your swing needs. Players are insanely bad at figuring out what's wrong with their swing, even when you look at vid or "feel" a certain thing. Find a qualified and highly credentialed coach to work with you a few times a year... That's all you need. 

 

You almost certainly shouldn't be in a Modus 105, but that's not likely what's stopping you from reaching your fullest potential in the quickest manner possible. Tool around with some heavier and stiffer options, but put 95% of your focus to finding the #1 coach in your area and practicing/playing. 5% else can be equipment tweaking and YouTube stuff. If you don't have any really legit guys to learn from nearby, then I know a good coach who is actually quite effective doing live online lessons. DM me and I'll share his info if you need.

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, newgolfer89 said:

sounds good thank you. i definitely think that alot of the launch conditions are technique which i need to improve especially because i've never played junior golf and all my learning is from free youtube videos. but was thinking if it would be better to change shafts so that i am instilling good habits vs compensating. 

 

i'm only using a BLP in my backyard which uses only 1 sticker on the club face so wouldn't be surprised if numbers were off (especially judging by the reactions of you guys.. i'm definitely not a tour level player, i started a year ago lol). sorry what do you mean by you will be strong enough to consistently break? i've been filming myself and chasing positions i see on youtube videos and came to realization that i started golf way too late and its actually impossible for me to do. now that i have a launch monitor i've been trying to adjust my swing based on ball flight and data but i still want a decent looking golf swing lol.

 

 

Those readings being potentially incorrect could be causing the efficiency "issues" as well. Over-reported clubhead speed means under reported smash factor, so I would confirm your numbers on something reliable to be sure (GCQuad/Trackman, search your area for these services). 

What I meant by "strong enough to consistently break" was that as an adult it is easy for us to use our strength (relative to a child) to brute force our way over key fundamentals (breaking them) because we "can". We can hit good shots this way sometimes, leading us to believe we're doing the right thing but that we just need more practice, when in reality we're barely getting away with using physical strength, timing, and speed to cover up flaws that will place a ceiling on how good/consistent we can become. Poor equipment fit can contribute to this for sure, but to a much lesser degree. A fundamentally sound golf swing can override most equipment issues, but a perfectly fit club can not override fundamental swing issues. Establishing those fundamentals with a good teacher like @Z1ggy16 touched on is highly encouraged if you intend to take the game seriously and/or if you're someone that gets the most enjoyment out of good performance. 

[phizzy30]

You should definitely consider moving to a heavier and stiffer shaft.  My ss and carry numbers with 8 iron are similar to yours and I play a 125 gram TX flex shaft which helps keep spin down and has tightened up my dispersion. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by phizzy30

[newgolfer89]

On 9/20/2022 at 4:26 PM, NZ315 said:

IMO I say LZ 6.5 125g will be fine. Slow down your swing and improve your efficiency levels. The ball will fly far with a slight slower controlled swing.

So what sports did you or do you play? Myself being a hockey player we tend to swing well with good speed. I found I play my best when I keep a good tempo and swing within myself. Don’t over swing, swing smooth , the ball will fly. Let the club do some work for. 

 

thanks! i've been reading a lot of good stuff about that shaft so hopefully it works for me. 

 

focused on tennis and competitive olympic lifting in college

 

good advice thanks again

 

On 9/20/2022 at 6:49 PM, Z1ggy16 said:

To comment on your response to my post -

 

It probably won't go down as much as you think. 112g to say 125-130g is only 15-18g or so. Think of physically how much mass that is when you scoop say, protein powder or whatever. Distributed over the 36 inches or so of the mid to short iron shaft, I don't think a strong player is going to swing that much slower. Even if you slowed down to 96mph... that's still faster than probably 99% of all players lol. You're hitting an 8i like 40 yards shorter than the average golfer hits driver.

 

And TBH 1.33 - 1.36 is fine. The reason being that you're not struggling for distance... a 170-180 8i is massive for traditional lofts. If you went over 1.4, imagine what happens when it's a little wet out, or you catch a little grass between the ball and face. 180 turns into 200 and you're over the green, maybe taking a drop.

 

I was in your shoes 6 years ago, when I first started to get serious about golf. Former college baseball player, having speed was pretty easy. The #1 thing I wish I'd discovered 6 years ago was my current coach. Don't screw around with Youtube vids and such, everything you read online isn't one thing; And that's tailored to your swing needs. Players are insanely bad at figuring out what's wrong with their swing, even when you look at vid or "feel" a certain thing. Find a qualified and highly credentialed coach to work with you a few times a year... That's all you need. 

 

You almost certainly shouldn't be in a Modus 105, but that's not likely what's stopping you from reaching your fullest potential in the quickest manner possible. Tool around with some heavier and stiffer options, but put 95% of your focus to finding the #1 coach in your area and practicing/playing. 5% else can be equipment tweaking and YouTube stuff. If you don't have any really legit guys to learn from nearby, then I know a good coach who is actually quite effective doing live online lessons. DM me and I'll share his info if you need.

 

hahah great analogy.. it's difficult reading stuff online because everyone is so different. think online is great place to get info but at the same time i also don't know the demographic of the person providing advice etc. 125g for an 80 year old will probably feel too heavy compared with someone else.

 

dude thats EXACTLY what it is... diagnosing what is the problem seems to be the biggest issue. i can watch a bunch of different video and i'm sure most youtubers have good intentions but at the same time that is also their job. i can be trying too fix something that isnt the root cause to the problem. or trying to change things that doesnt work with my grip or body limits. 

 

thanks for the advice brother. i might be taking you up on that offer. 

 

On 9/20/2022 at 9:39 PM, Valtiel said:

Those readings being potentially incorrect could be causing the efficiency "issues" as well. Over-reported clubhead speed means under reported smash factor, so I would confirm your numbers on something reliable to be sure (GCQuad/Trackman, search your area for these services). 

What I meant by "strong enough to consistently break" was that as an adult it is easy for us to use our strength (relative to a child) to brute force our way over key fundamentals (breaking them) because we "can". We can hit good shots this way sometimes, leading us to believe we're doing the right thing but that we just need more practice, when in reality we're barely getting away with using physical strength, timing, and speed to cover up flaws that will place a ceiling on how good/consistent we can become. Poor equipment fit can contribute to this for sure, but to a much lesser degree. A fundamentally sound golf swing can override most equipment issues, but a perfectly fit club can not override fundamental swing issues. Establishing those fundamentals with a good teacher like @Z1ggy16 touched on is highly encouraged if you intend to take the game seriously and/or if you're someone that gets the most enjoyment out of good performance. 

 

thank you. will need to look around for a nice simulator center.

 

ahh gotcha, yes that is definitely what it seems like starting as an adult compared to seeing kids swing. i've also heard that kids have a hard time transitioning into junior golfers and getting used to their new body and strength.

 

On 9/21/2022 at 7:49 AM, phizzy30 said:

You should definitely consider moving to a heavier and stiffer shaft.  My ss and carry numbers with 8 iron are similar to yours and I play a 125 gram TX flex shaft which helps keep spin down and has tightened up my dispersion. 

 

thanks dude, what shaft are you currently using?

Edited September 23, 2022 by newgolfer89

[phizzy30]

Just now, newgolfer89 said:

 

thanks! i've been reading a lot of good stuff about that shaft so hopefully it works for me. 

 

focused on tennis in hs/college and olympic lifting in college which i think helped alot with lower body strength and being explosive

 

good advice thanks again

 

 

hahah great analogy.. it's difficult reading stuff online because everyone is so different. think online is great place to get info but at the same time i also don't know the demographic of the person providing advice etc. 125g for an 80 year old will probably feel too heavy compared with someone else.

 

dude thats EXACTLY what it is... diagnosing what is the problem seems to be the biggest issue. i can watch a bunch of different video and i'm sure most youtubers have good intentions but at the same time that is also their job. i can be trying too fix something that isnt the root cause to the problem. or trying to change things that doesnt work with my grip or body limits. 

 

thanks for the advice brother. i might be taking you up on that offer. 

 

 

thank you. will need to look around for a nice simulator center.

 

ahh gotcha, yes that is definitely what it seems like starting as an adult compared to seeing kids swing. i've also heard that kids have a hard time transitioning into junior golfers and getting used to their new body and strength.

 

 

thanks dude, what shaft are you currently using?

MMT 125TX

[NZ315]

3 hours ago, newgolfer89 said:

 

thanks! i've been reading a lot of good stuff about that shaft so hopefully it works for me. 

 

focused on tennis in hs/college and olympic lifting in college which i think helped alot with lower body strength and being explosive

 

good advice thanks again

 

 

hahah great analogy.. it's difficult reading stuff online because everyone is so different. think online is great place to get info but at the same time i also don't know the demographic of the person providing advice etc. 125g for an 80 year old will probably feel too heavy compared with someone else.

 

dude thats EXACTLY what it is... diagnosing what is the problem seems to be the biggest issue. i can watch a bunch of different video and i'm sure most youtubers have good intentions but at the same time that is also their job. i can be trying too fix something that isnt the root cause to the problem. or trying to change things that doesnt work with my grip or body limits. 

 

thanks for the advice brother. i might be taking you up on that offer. 

 

 

thank you. will need to look around for a nice simulator center.

 

ahh gotcha, yes that is definitely what it seems like starting as an adult compared to seeing kids swing. i've also heard that kids have a hard time transitioning into junior golfers and getting used to their new body and strength.

 

 

thanks dude, what shaft are you currently using?

I play the LZ120 I wish I got the LZ125 I like the extra weight helps me keep the swing where I can feel it. Next set I will go back to the heavier shaft

[newgolfer89]

update

 

still looking around for a good local coach. while i was looking for single 8i shafts, i was able to find a full set (4-gw) of px lz 6.5 for $100 so jumped on that deal and bought all the supplies to reshaft. got bored over the weekend and ended up reshafting my whole set which was a fun experience. original set sw progressed from c9-d2 and d5 in wedges. after reshafting all he irons are d3 and wedges stayed d5 since i did not buy new wedge shafts yet. everything feels solid and extra epoxy turned rock hard and glassy so hopefully none of my heads fly off!

 

got around to hittting the 8i today for the first time. can definitely feel the extra weight which i'm not sure if i like or not. contact is all over the place. swing speed dropped 2-3 mph. carry dropped around 10y. spin is still very high if not higher. launch angle about the same maybe even higher. max height went down (nothing above 120 ft). aoa -2-4, path more neutral now. the weirdest thing is now my good ball flights are draws but my miss is a snap hook which i have never done before. i was worried that the extra weight and xs flex would exacerbate my right miss. 

 

i heard that most people are able to tell if they get along with a shaft within the first couple hits but i think i just need more practice and getting used to the extra weight and shaft timing. if i continue to hook the ball should i try a regular px 6.5 or x100?

Edited October 4, 2022 by newgolfer89