Shaft Help. Love 3 wood, hate driver

[justcallmemoses]

I was fitted for Sim 2 Max 16.5 fairway with Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 7s which has been working wonders. Great carry and laser straight both off the tee and off the deck.

 

As I liked it so much I said I’d try the Tour AD IZ 6s in my TS2 9.5 driver. My problem is the shaft feels completely different with a huge kick and terrible dispersion and really high launch. Any recommendations on what to try in the driver?

 

Not sure if relevant but I tee the fairway very low as a downward feeling for me results in a better strike. I’ve noticed when I tee it up and I hit more up on the driver it kicks mad. 
 

4 handicap. I’m usually around 3 up AOA with the driver and about a positive path of 3. I’ve historically struggled with left misses so I enjoy hitting the fairway with the thinking of hitting down and left more to neutralise my path even tho realistically my AOA is probably more neutral than down with the fairway (just a swing feeling).

Edited September 22, 2022 by justcallmemoses
Typo

[phizzy30]

Like you, I really liked the IZ in fairway metal, but it launched way too high for me and dispersion got a bit wonky with driver.  I attribute that to having a more aggressive move with driver and a smoother transition for 3 metal for me.  I don't like much if any kick with driver so I would recommend a more linear shaft with no kick to it.  If you want to stay within the GD family, I would recommend the UB, HD, or XC.  All mid-mid/low launch shafts with low spin.  The UB and XC will be harder to turn over while the HD will be a little easier. 

[justcallmemoses]

1 minute ago, phizzy30 said:

Like you, I really liked the IZ in fairway metal, but it launched way too high for me and dispersion got a bit wonky with driver.  I attribute that to having a more aggressive move with driver and a smoother transition for 3 metal for me.  I don't like much if any kick with driver so I would recommend a more linear shaft with no kick to it.  If you want to stay within the GD family, I would recommend the UB, HD, or XC.  All mid-mid/low launch shafts with low spin.  The UB and XC will be harder to turn over while the HD will be a little easier. 

thanks for that. Any recommendations outside of the GD family also?

 

Other shafts I’ve been fit into for the rest of the bag are KBS prototype 85s in utility and KBS $ Taper 120s in irons if that’s any use for feels etc 

[phizzy30]

MCA:

Diamana DF OR PD, Tensei 1K or 1K Orange(counterbalanced), Kai'li white(low) or blue(mid but linear).

 

PX:

Smoke Green Hulk small batch

RDX Green

 

Fujikura:

Ventus Black or Black TR(lower spin)

Ventus Blue TR(mid/low but feels linear and doesn't kick much)

Edited September 23, 2022 by phizzy30

[Goshdarnit]

I have fit a ton of players into the IZ in the fairway wood, but rarely does it correlate and match with driver.  I've found DI's as a good driver shaft for the player that likes the IZ in the fairway wood, and even the UB pairs well with it.

[Ger21]

I just bought an AD-IZ 6S for my driver, and love it. It was advertised as untipped, but after getting a 7S yesterday for my 4W, I found out the 6S was tipped 1". I find it to feel fairly firm, without a lot of kick. Great dispersion, and mid launch. Best shaft I've ever hit in a driver. Might be something to try.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Ger21

[dbornack]

If you're strong enough or your transition if hard/fast - I'd recommend the 7s in your driver too, not the 6s.  Not many shafts in the 60g range are as stable as those in the 70g range.  I've struggled for years finding the right shaft in 60g range that had tight dispersion.

 

Maybe try the Smoke Green 6.5.  

[ShortGolfer]

You may also want to try choking down with the 7s in driver and ultimately cutting the driver shorter if choking down helps.

Stock drivers are too long because they look better on the launch monitor if you are only concerned with max numbers that don't translate well to performance on the golf course.

 

Cutting a heavier shaft shorter may result in the right swing weight without having to mess with changing the driver head weight.

 

[Cwebb]

Try the same exact shaft that you have in your fairway wood.  Set aside the need to find something ~10g lighter for the driver

[Stuart_G]

20 hours ago, justcallmemoses said:

I was fitted for Sim 2 Max 16.5 fairway with Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 7s which has been working wonders. Great carry and laser straight both off the tee and off the deck.

 

As I liked it so much I said I’d try the Tour AD IZ 6s in my TS2 9.5 driver. My problem is the shaft feels completely different with a huge kick and terrible dispersion and really high launch. Any recommendations on what to try in the driver?

 

Two possible reasons why they feel so different:

 

1) TM tips 1" for drivers, maybe more for fairways.  Definitely more than is common or recommended by the shaft OEM's.   After the fitting was your club a custom order from TM?

 

2)  Unlike some other shaft OEM's, GD typically increases stiffness with weight.  Not a full flex - but enough that it can be noticeable.

 

 

Simply tipping the driver shaft 1" might make up the difference - but there are no guarantees.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Stuart_G

[03trdblack]

2 hours ago, Cwebb said:

Try the same exact shaft that you have in your fairway wood.  Set aside the need to find something ~10g lighter for the driver

 

^^^This

Most people really don't swing a few extra grams any slower and you'll have the same feel you have in the 3 wood.  As other's have mentioned, GD shafts often feel different from the different weight ranges due to slight changes in the profiles.

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by 03trdblack

[bvanlieu]

I also have benched my IZ 6S Driver shaft. Working with a fitter the 6S was not the best for me yet the 7S in my 5W is quite a bit tighter in terms of fit. 

 

I like the IZ when I was am just hitting smooth fairway finders but when I want to step on it things get a bit harder for me to time, toe readings of the driver head not great. 

 

For the IZ a 6X with stiffer tip may have helped in that case, or just moving to a 7 however my fitter had me try a few 'softer' X shafts and things started to tighten and I am now in an Evenflow Black 7 X. He knew I was frugal and agreed we could find a match 🙂 

 

Plenty of shafts to try, I only mention the EF as my fitter suggested it as a dirt cheap NOS shaft to find relative to the premium shaft families with a similar feel to some GD shafts. 

 

 

 

 

[Zena]

On 9/23/2022 at 9:40 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

Two possible reasons why they feel so different:

 

1) TM tips 1" for drivers, maybe more for fairways.  Definitely more than is common or recommended by the shaft OEM's.   After the fitting was your club a custom order from TM?

 

2)  Unlike some other shaft OEM's, GD typically increases stiffness with weight.  Not a full flex - but enough that it can be noticeable.

 

 

Simply tipping the driver shaft 1" might make up the difference - but there are no guarantees.

 

Also, and I apologize if someone has brought this up:

 

Lots of people, I would guess most of people, swing the modern driver differently from the modern fairway wood. Wider stance, spine tilt, positive AoA, reduced weight shift, etc. Driver always off a tee, fairway woods off tee and turf, etc.

 

The swing and delivery is very different. So while a lighter version of the wood shaft in driver or heavier version of driver in a wood is a somewhere to start, it rarely seems to be the optimal fit. So different swings + same shaft = different feels.

[phizzy30]

Just now, Zena said:

 

Also, and I apologize if someone has brought this up:

 

Lots of people, I would guess most of people, swing the modern driver differently from the modern fairway wood. Wider stance, spine tilt, positive AoA, reduced weight shift, etc. Driver always off a tee, fairway woods off tee and turf, etc.

 

The swing and delivery is very different. So while a lighter version of the wood shaft in driver or heavier version of driver in a wood is a somewhere to start, it rarely seems to be the optimal fit. So different swings + same shaft = different feels.

You're right in that the same shaft but different weight for driver and 3 metal rarely work.  I swing with 90+% effort with driver whereas with 3 metal, it's 70-80%.  I tried a ZF 60TX in driver earlier this year and it didn't work whereas the ZF 80TX is a good fit for 3 metal.   

[Stuart_G]

 

10 hours ago, Zena said:

 

Also, and I apologize if someone has brought this up:

 

Lots of people, I would guess most of people, swing the modern driver differently from the modern fairway wood. Wider stance, spine tilt, positive AoA, reduced weight shift, etc. Driver always off a tee, fairway woods off tee and turf, etc.

 

Yes, there are difference in the swing for many.  But for most, the loading/unloading aspect of the mechanics really doesn't really change all that much and club head speed scales normally with playing length.

 

Yes, the same shaft is a good starting point (or as good as any).  But if the fitter knows about how the profile changes with weight (like the GD and UST shaft commonly do), or if the driver shaft was tipped or not, those things should also be understood and accounted for when determining that starting point for the next club.

 

 

10 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

You're right in that the same shaft but different weight for driver and 3 metal rarely work.

 

I disagree.   I believe it's actually more common than you think.    But it's also true that it's far from universal by any means.

 

It's also common to want a different shaft profile to tweak the ball flight results - as opposed to wanting to get the same loading/unloading feel.  e.g. little softer in the fairway for a bit more height and softer landings.

 

 

But that really doesn't matter.  The more important point is that generalizations like talking about what "most" people do are not really as helpful as people want them to be.   Even when such generalizations are true, there is no way to know who's going to end up in the majority of that generalization and who is going to end up in the minority.   And there will ALWAYS be people that end up in the minority.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Stuart_G

[third-times-a-charm]

12 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

You're right in that the same shaft but different weight for driver and 3 metal rarely work.  I swing with 90+% effort with driver whereas with 3 metal, it's 70-80%.  I tried a ZF 60TX in driver earlier this year and it didn't work whereas the ZF 80TX is a good fit for 3 metal.   

I swing like an idiot with all my clubs, so using the same shaft in all the woods is working well so far.

 

Then again, for some reason, I only really see this phenomenon with Tour AD shafts namely the AD DI. I dont think I've ever seen a pro or am with all the same wood shafts from any other OEM's line even the Ventus.

[phizzy30]

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

 

Yes, there are difference in the swing for many.  But for most, the loading/unloading aspect of the mechanics really doesn't really change all that much and club head speed scales normally with playing length.

 

Yes, the same shaft is a good starting point (or as good as any).  But if the fitter knows about how the profile changes with weight (like the GD and UST shaft commonly do), or if the driver shaft was tipped or not, those things should also be understood and accounted for when determining that starting point for the next club.

 

 

 

I disagree.   I believe it's actually more common than you think.    But it's also true that it's far from universal by any means.

 

It's also common to want a different shaft profile to tweak the ball flight results - as opposed to wanting to get the same loading/unloading feel.  e.g. little softer in the fairway for a bit more height and softer landings.

 

 

But that really doesn't matter.  The more important point is that generalizations like talking about what "most" people do are not really as helpful as people want them to be.   Even when such generalizations are true, there is no way to know who's going to end up in the majority of that generalization and who is going to end up in the minority.   And there will ALWAYS be people that end up in the minority.

I will say this.  If you look in the bags of most ams and pros, you will see that they don't have the same shaft for driver and 3 metal.  That is all. 

[phizzy30]

2 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

I swing like an idiot with all my clubs, so using the same shaft in all the woods is working well so far.

 

Then again, for some reason, I only really see this phenomenon with Tour AD shafts namely the AD DI. I dont think I've ever seen a pro or am with all the same wood shafts from any other OEM's line even the Ventus.

Yeah, it's pretty rare.  Cantlay plays the ZF in both driver and 3 metal.  Xander plays the Kai'li White in both driver and 3 metal.  Rory was playing the Ventus Black in driver and 3 metal as well before he switched to the Kai'li White for 3 metal.  I think Hideki plays the DI in both driver and 3 metal.  So it's minority for sure. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by phizzy30

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

I will say this.  If you look in the bags of most ams and pros, you will see that they don't have the same shaft for driver and 3 metal.  That is all. 

 

Actually, the more I think about it, the more common situation with ams is that they end up playing whatever stock shaft the club OEM's offer.   Detailed shaft fittings and custom upgrades is a long way away from the norm.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Stuart_G

[justcallmemoses]

Before selling the driver shaft. I’ve tipped it 0.5 an inch to reduce the playing length back to 45 inches from titleist standard of 45.5. I guess it’s worth a go to see.

 

Titleist advise a +2g weight for a 0.5 reduction. I know people say it’s more like 6g per 0.5 inch reduction. I’m wondering will a change in grip work and leave the standard weight e.g going from a 52.5g std tour velvet cord to a 46.5 std multi compound. Which is about 6g?

 

 

[bladehunter]

I have an IZ in my 7 wood and love it. Tried it in a driver and was worst thing I’ve hit recently.  The HD is in my 3 wood and driver. And it’s worlds better feeling. 

[JDennis]

Maybe try a Kai li' white. For me it launches a little lower but still gives a noticeable kick with great dispersion. 

 

Bonus is they are cheap to buy since they are a stock shaft/free upgrade for oem. 

 

 

 

[Stuart_G]

12 hours ago, justcallmemoses said:

Titleist advise a +2g weight for a 0.5 reduction. I know people say it’s more like 6g per 0.5 inch reduction.

 

Those "people" are wrong to assume you should try to keep the swing weight the same value after changing the playing length.   Especially since you were very likely not really fit for that swing weight value in the first place.

 

Forget about any swing weight value target.   Just take the shorter driver to the range with some lead tape.   Add it to the head a few grams at a time while hitting a few balls, and stop when you get the best feel and results.

 

Then if you want to change the lead tape out for a different head weight you can do that.

 

 

12 hours ago, justcallmemoses said:

I’m wondering will a change in grip work and leave the standard weight

 

Usually not.   Changing butt weight is a horrible way to manage swing weight - very unreliable.  The swing weight concept was never intended to be used that way.  Another way to put that is that what the scale says in that case isn't usually representative of how the feel will change.

 

 

12 hours ago, justcallmemoses said:

e.g going from a 52.5g std tour velvet cord to a 46.5 std multi compound. Which is about 6g?

 

Even if you could depend on the swing weight scale for butt weight changes, 6 gm of butt weight is not the same as 6 gm of head weight.