lie angle adustment --> neck now at a wonky angle --> is this acceptable???

[wallymann]

had a couple putters adjusted for a steeper lie-angle and this is what i ended up with.

 

the hosel no longer sits at 90* to the club...and it looks like crap.

 

is this hack work what i should expect from a pro-shop?
 

Edited September 24, 2022 by wallymann

[Haber]

How many degrees did you have them bent?

[wallymann]

1 minute ago, Haber said:

How many degrees did you have them bent?

went to 77*, fairly steep.

[Haber]

Just now, wallymann said:

went to 77*, fairly steep.

That’s a lot, 6-7* from factory will end up like that.

[03trdblack]

I think you're just lucky it didn't snap off! 

[596]

Looking at that hosel. Don't see any other way to bend that putter 7* upright.

[wallymann]

53 minutes ago, 596 said:

Looking at that hosel. Don't see any other way to bend that putter 7* upright.

 

its possible...i did DIY'd another one of my ansers and got it to 77 w/o any wonkiness like this.

 

so much for getting a "professional" to do it...LOL!

[Cwebb]

How do you figure that one could bend a hosel to change the angle of it, while not changing the angle of it?

[Llortamaisey]

6 minutes ago, wallymann said:

 

its possible...i did DIY'd another one of my ansers and got it to 77 w/o any wonkiness like this.

 

so much for getting a "professional" to do it...LOL!

It sounds like you knew it was a hack job from experience. Why did you start a thread asking the golfwrx community if it was a hack job?

Edited September 24, 2022 by Llortamaisey

[wallymann]

On 9/24/2022 at 4:53 PM, Cwebb said:

How do you figure that one could bend a hosel to change the angle of it, while not changing the angle of it?

 

with proper technique, in my experience, you can put the bend right at the hosel, not at the bottom of the neck.  neck stays at 90* from the head, and the angle the hosel intersects the neck changes.  see image.

 

On 9/24/2022 at 4:57 PM, Llortamaisey said:

It sounds like you knew it was a hack job from experience. Why did you start a thread asking the golfwrx community if it was a hack job?

sure...it seemed hack-ish...the question is whether it's reasonable to expect better than hack from a professional.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by wallymann

[5hort5tuff]

If it doesn't change Toe Hang...then it shouldn't matter too much. That taylormade is probably made of some hard steel...Likely not easy to bend that many degrees. I don't think it's fair to ask for 7 or 8* and expect it to come out perfect.

[kwcsports]

considering how much it's bent, I think he did ok.

[Cwebb]

19 minutes ago, wallymann said:

 

with proper technique, in my experience, you can put the bend right at the hosel, not at the bottom of the neck.  neck stays at 90* from the head, and the angle the hosel intersects the neck changes.

 

 

Where would you suggest placing the bending bar on your putter, so that no bending of the "neck" occurs?  Without some sort of custom mold to hold the entire neck from moving, it's not going to work.

 

Putters with necks that are adjusted for lie/loft are bent with the bar around the bottom of the neck.  This is standard procedure

[Socrates]

Post a picture of your Anser and let us be the judge (same angle and square). BTW, that TM has about 1/2 the hosel length so any bend is going to be more obvious.  Not much room to make a bend. 
 

If the bend is on the same plane, you would never see it from the address position. 

[Cactus Jack]

I’m sure it’s been done millions of times but I’ve never heard of anyone bending a putter more than 2-3 degrees max. Considering the head is still attached, especially since it’s cast, I’d say your guy is pretty darn good. 

[pingfool]

3 hours ago, wallymann said:

 

with proper technique, in my experience, you can put the bend right at the hosel, not at the bottom of the neck.  neck stays at 90* from the head, and the angle the hosel intersects the neck changes.  see image.

 

sure...it seemed hack-ish...the question is whether it's reasonable to expect better than hack from a professional.

Word up to wallyman. This is only correct way to adjust lie properly

[wallymann]

18 hours ago, Socrates said:

Post a picture of your Anser and let us be the judge (same angle and square).

 

ok...here's how its done...

tools: 

- bench-vise

- pipe-wrench with soft aluminum jaw-covers

- wooden clamping blocks with drilled holes

- masking tape.

 

process:
- start out with the TM and fix the "pro" job and put the neck back to 90*...repeat with all putters so affected

- wrap neck in blue tape and clamp in the blocks.

- wrap hosel in blue tape.
- firmly adjust lie-angle using good ol' fashioned elbow grease

- creep up on your desired lie-angle angle as you get a feel for the effort required

- clamping blocks tend to deform under the pressure, so i pre-drill several more slots so i can keep going as they wear out

- measure lie-angle:  180* minus 103* equals 77*...WORD-UP!
- repeat on...very rare KBI-grace slotted BeCu anser with titanium shaft

- repeat on...run-of-the-mill bronze anser
- lastly double-check that the necks are all still 90* to the head (anser necks are hourglass shaped, so its set to  look right-angled)
- VOILA!!!

Edited September 25, 2022 by wallymann

[wallymann]

19 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

Where would you suggest placing the bending bar on your putter, so that no bending of the "neck" occurs?  Without some sort of custom mold to hold the entire neck from moving, it's not going to work.

 

that's what i'm suggesting...check out the process, its not rocket-science or curing cancer.

Edited September 25, 2022 by wallymann

[jomatty]

Weird thread.  Op asks if this is acceptable work.  Most everyone says it is.  Op declares it unacceptable and shows “proper” way to do it.  Seems like we could have skipped the question portion and just got on to the tutorial, which I did find interesting.

[wallymann]

1 minute ago, jomatty said:

Weird thread.  Op asks if this is acceptable work.  Most everyone says it is.  Op declares it unacceptable and shows “proper” way to do it.  Seems like we could have skipped the question portion and just got on to the tutorial, which I did find interesting.

 

agreed.  i wish i would have just done this at the start instead of going to the shop, spending $$$ and time...LOL!

[jomatty]

16 hours ago, wallymann said:

 

agreed.  i wish i would have just done this at the start instead of going to the shop, spending $$$ and time...LOL!

I’ve thought before that it makes more sense to bend some putters in the place that you bent it.  I didn’t know if I was missing something and if there is a reason they are almost always bent the way the shop guys did it.  I suppose it is just easier to do that way with the equipment in a normal shop.

Edited September 26, 2022 by jomatty

[Socrates]

3 hours ago, jomatty said:

I’ve thought before that it makes more sense to bend some putters in the place that you bent it.  I didn’t know if I was missing something and if there is a reason they are almost always bent the way the shop guys did it.  I suppose it is just easier to do that way with the equipment in a normal shop.

The biggest issue in bending where he bent it is that he could have easily ripped off the top of the stem leaving you with a big problem.  Spreading the bend over the length of the stem is usually safest.  Most often you are only bending 1º or 2º and that is hardly noticeable.  In this case he was bending a ridiculous 7º.  Glad he was able to do it.  

[wallymann]

17 minutes ago, Socrates said:

The biggest issue in bending where he bent it is that he could have easily ripped off the top of the stem leaving you with a big problem.  Spreading the bend over the length of the stem is usually safest.  Most often you are only bending 1º or 2º and that is hardly noticeable.  In this case he was bending a ridiculous 7º.  Glad he was able to do it.  

 

has anyone ever actually seen a hosel ripped off of the neck of a putter?  sounds pretty sensational...bordering on unbelievable.

a ping anser in mg-bronze, being cast, is as brittle a material as i've ever seen in a putter.  moving it 7* was no problem using the technique shown above.

Edited September 26, 2022 by wallymann

[Socrates]

20 minutes ago, wallymann said:

 

has anyone ever actually seen a hosel ripped off of the neck of a putter?  sounds pretty sensational...bordering on unbelievable.

a ping anser in mg-bronze, being cast, is as brittle a material as i've ever seen in a putter.  moving it 7* was no problem using the technique shown above.

Actually, yes.  I've seen a number of putters snap right below the top of the plumbers neck where the shaft inserts.  I've never snapped one myself there, but I've seen many from guys trying it themselves and then coming in to see if it can be fixed.  Right now I consider you to be talented, but also a bit lucky to have not broken one.  A testament to your skill and the quality of the materials you are dealing with (you can thank Ping for having superb QC on their metals and their heat treating methods).

[wallymann]

50 minutes ago, Socrates said:

...snap right below the top of the plumbers neck where the shaft inserts.  I've never snapped one myself there, but I've seen many from guys trying it themselves and then coming in to see if it can be fixed...

 

ugh...that would suck!

[wallymann]

On 9/24/2022 at 8:15 PM, pingfool said:

Word up to wallyman. This is only correct way to adjust lie properly

 

Scotty agrees...

[wallymann]

quick update:  i adjusted a few more putters and ventured to very stiff *cast* stainless ping...and the wood clamping blocks just crumbled under the needed pressure to get the steel to yield when going from 70* to 78* (went 1* steeper than before).

i picked up some nylon plastic and fabbed up another set of blocks using this stuff -- much better results than wood!

Edited October 14, 2022 by wallymann

[Socrates]

17 hours ago, wallymann said:

quick update:  i adjusted a few more putters and ventured to very stiff *cast* stainless ping...and the wood clamping blocks just crumbled under the needed pressure to get the steel to yield when going from 70* to 78* (went 1* steeper than before).

i picked up some nylon plastic and fabbed up another set of blocks using this stuff -- much better results than wood!

 

Do you see any "stretch marks" in the metal when you bend it that much? 

[wallymann]

8 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Do you see any "stretch marks" in the metal when you bend it that much? 

 

nope...all good!

none of these metals are heat-treated, i honestly wouldnt expect any problems with any of the steel clubs -- whether forged or cast.  forged is a piece-o-cake, cast just ends up stiffer so takes more oomph to yield. 

IMO potentially the sketchiest is the cast bronze, but it yielded w/ nary a fuss.

Edited October 15, 2022 by wallymann

[wallymann]

another update after closely eyeballling my TM bandon after this adjustment. 

 

the bandon is made of relatively soft forged steel.  and the design has has a bit of lateral separation between the hosel and the neck.

 

looking closely you can see that little space is what took the entirety of the 8* of loft adjustment!  check out the twist in the metal!