How to shift CG of 8802 putter from heel to center of face?

[golferdude54]

So the 8802 is my all-time favorite putter head design but the two models I own, the Wilson Staff 8802 (the new one) and the Odyssey Black Series Tour Design #8 have their CG on the heel instead of the center of the face. I know because I measured their CG with a GolfWorks CG locator tool. 
 

I don’t want to mark where the actual sweet spot is and address the ball on it lined up with the center of the hole on a dead straight putt, it just throws me off when I try it. So how do I move the CG from the heel to the center of the face? Is it even possible?

Edited September 28, 2022 by golferdude54

[ac6]

The CG is near the heel because the hosel is all the way at that end. Cheapest way would probably be to stack up a slab of lead tape and put it on the flange on the toe end only. More expensive is to calculate exactly where you want it and do a combination of drilling out sufficient material from the hosel/heel area, and then drilling out and replacing material with lead or tungsten in the toe area. But I don't think you'll be able to move it more than a couple mm. The heel-biased sweet spot just comes with the territory on this design. 

[Stuart_G]

3 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

So the 8802 is my all-time favorite putter head design but the two models I own, the Wilson Staff 8802 (the new one) and the Odyssey Black Series Tour Design #8 have their CG on the heel instead of the center of the face. I know because I measured their CG with a GolfWorks CG locator tool. 
 

I don’t want to mark where the actual sweet spot is and address the ball on it lined up with the center of the hole on a dead straight putt, it just throws me off when I try it. So how do I move the CG from the heel to the center of the face? Is it even possible?

 

Measure the distance - and tell us how far do you want to move it?

How much change in total head weight (if any) are you willing to accept?

 

Pictures of the  head might help.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Stuart_G

[joostin]

I'll try to make an 8802 style putter in CAD and see what happens. 

[rsballer10]

On 9/28/2022 at 4:13 AM, ac6 said:

The CG is near the heel because the hosel is all the way at that end. Cheapest way would probably be to stack up a slab of lead tape and put it on the flange on the toe end only. More expensive is to calculate exactly where you want it and do a combination of drilling out sufficient material from the hosel/heel area, and then drilling out and replacing material with lead or tungsten in the toe area. But I don't think you'll be able to move it more than a couple mm. The heel-biased sweet spot just comes with the territory on this design. 

 

I don't think that is true. Mid-mallets don't have a heel side sweetspot. Neither do most modern MB irons. A lot of older irons do have a sweetspot heel side. Could easily design an modern 8802 with a a narrower flange towards the heel and thicker towards the toe. 

[JCAG]

Find the CG by holding the putter up in the air with your thumb and first finger, like a pendulum. Tap across the face with a golf ball. You will feel "wobble" until you find the point on the face where there is no wobble. Mark the top of the putter at this point. This becomes an alignment spot where you want to hit the ball on the face. If this point is not visually appealing, add lead tape and see (feel) the change.

[MachineHack]

On 9/28/2022 at 6:13 PM, ac6 said:

The CG is near the heel because the hosel is all the way at that end. Cheapest way would probably be to stack up a slab of lead tape and put it on the flange on the toe end only. More expensive is to calculate exactly where you want it and do a combination of drilling out sufficient material from the hosel/heel area, and then drilling out and replacing material with lead or tungsten in the toe area. But I don't think you'll be able to move it more than a couple mm. The heel-biased sweet spot just comes with the territory on this design. 

I’d echo the build up lead tape (or hot glue some pine wood derby tungsten weights) to shift the CG

 

that way you can play around with different toe weighting to see what works best, you might find shifting the CG completely center makes it harder to close the face (depending on your swing type) 

 

once you nail down a feel, then you know exactly how many grams you want to add to the toe and can do something more permanent like drilling and adding tungsten to the toe

[joostin]

CAD model made for an 8802 style putter at 335g - Wilson's latest model weight - in 304 stainless steel with a half hosel offset flare tip.

 

On my design, which was just approximated off pictures and tweaked for weight, the CG was 0.191" heelward from the center of the face (taken from left and right most portion of the flat face, not the topline).  It took 47.6g of lead tape on the toe as shown in blue to move CG to the center LOL.  Slather it on....

 

Getting a decent hosel blend is a pain in the neck... literally.  Fun with CAD 🙂

[Howard_Jones]

56 minutes ago, joostin said:

CAD model made for an 8802 style putter at 335g - Wilson's latest model weight - in 304 stainless steel with a half hosel offset flare tip.

 

On my design, which was just approximated off pictures and tweaked for weight, the CG was 0.191" heelward from the center of the face (taken from left and right most portion of the flat face, not the topline).  It took 47.6g of lead tape on the toe as shown in blue to move CG to the center LOL.  Slather it on....

 

Getting a decent hosel blend is a pain in the neck... literally.  Fun with CAD 🙂

Interesting, i have one of those here somewhere...
- what diameter is that hosel (the top, smallest OD).
Hosel drilling might move COG in the right direction, then we have to find a way to relocate that weight toe side, but fast math in my head say we have to remove more than 20 grams. who might be more than whats possible. Hosel drilling (to the max) will at least reduce the need for how much weight thats needed toe side.

[joostin]

10 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Interesting, i have one of those here somewhere...
- what diameter is that hosel (the top, smallest OD).
Hosel drilling might move COG in the right direction, then we have to find a way to relocate that weight toe side, but fast math in my head say we have to remove more than 20 grams. who might be more than whats possible. Hosel drilling (to the max) will at least reduce the need for how much weight thats needed toe side.

Don't have computer open but I believe I had it .300" at the tip OD, and the glue section 1"L.  Say we drill 3/16" x 2.5" deep, leaving .056" wall per side, that would remove 9g.

 

Here's the thing though... The center of the face may still not look centered to the OP, because it's not inline with the center of the topline or flange.  Depending what OP likes as "center", that could be another .200" 😉

[Valtiel]

16 hours ago, joostin said:

CAD model made for an 8802 style putter at 335g - Wilson's latest model weight - in 304 stainless steel with a half hosel offset flare tip.

 

On my design, which was just approximated off pictures and tweaked for weight, the CG was 0.191" heelward from the center of the face (taken from left and right most portion of the flat face, not the topline).  It took 47.6g of lead tape on the toe as shown in blue to move CG to the center LOL.  Slather it on....

 

Getting a decent hosel blend is a pain in the neck... literally.  Fun with CAD 🙂

Always appreciate your work! The first thought when I saw the thread title was that hosel weight would have to be removed and a big tungsten plug added to the toe. My second thought was "I hope joostin can mock this up" hah. With that mockup it now feels like you'd have to actually remove a chunk of the hosel altogether, basically halve the length of it, then still add a big tungsten plug. If 47.6g would need to be added to the toe then it seems like the only way to actually maintain "correct" head weight would be to remove ~24g worth of hosel and then add ~24g of tungsten plug in the toe. How much do you reckon the hosel itself weights and how much could be removed? 

[NRJyzr]

3 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Always appreciate your work! The first thought when I saw the thread title was that hosel weight would have to be removed and a big tungsten plug added to the toe. My second thought was "I hope joostin can mock this up" hah. With that mockup it now feels like you'd have to actually remove a chunk of the hosel altogether, basically halve the length of it, then still add a big tungsten plug. If 47.6g would need to be added to the toe then it seems like the only way to actually maintain "correct" head weight would be to remove ~24g worth of hosel and then add ~24g of tungsten plug in the toe. How much do you reckon the hosel itself weights and how much could be removed? 

 

This perhaps is (at least) a portion of why Cleveland did this with their #2 model in the Huntington Beach line

 

 

[joostin]

3 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Always appreciate your work! The first thought when I saw the thread title was that hosel weight would have to be removed and a big tungsten plug added to the toe. My second thought was "I hope joostin can mock this up" hah. With that mockup it now feels like you'd have to actually remove a chunk of the hosel altogether, basically halve the length of it, then still add a big tungsten plug. If 47.6g would need to be added to the toe then it seems like the only way to actually maintain "correct" head weight would be to remove ~24g worth of hosel and then add ~24g of tungsten plug in the toe. How much do you reckon the hosel itself weights and how much could be removed? 

Lol...  I feel obliged when these threads pop up, and have been wanting to design a real blade putter anyway.

 

So the total hosel weight above the bend is 28.7g.  If we remove that but keep a 1/2"L tip for epoxy, like below, that removes 23.8g.  That already brings the CG pretty much face center (.012" heelward), so we just have to add weight around the center after that:

[joostin]

Just saw that Wilson posted a new putter line today including a new 8802.  Really?  Could've used that 2 days ago when I was looking for pictures to reference for CAD 😆 

 

https://www.wilson.com/en-us/product/staff-model-putter-8802-wg1p0280#hand=57929

 

They're nice, classic designs that sell and that people love.  But honestly I think companies can inject a little more design originality instead of most people copying on new releases, same base designs, then charging premiums for their innovation stories.  Sorry, rant over!

[golferdude54]

9 hours ago, joostin said:

Just saw that Wilson posted a new putter line today including a new 8802.  Really?  Could've used that 2 days ago when I was looking for pictures to reference for CAD 😆 

 

https://www.wilson.com/en-us/product/staff-model-putter-8802-wg1p0280#hand=57929

 

They're nice, classic designs that sell and that people love.  But honestly I think companies can inject a little more design originality instead of most people copying on new releases, same base designs, then charging premiums for their innovation stories.  Sorry, rant over!

It seems Scotty possibly caught onto this heelward CG of earlier models and in this model, there looks to be a bit more toe mass here.

[joostin]

34 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

It seems Scotty possibly caught onto this heelward CG of earlier models and in this model, there looks to be a bit more toe mass here.

TP Mills favored toe weighting also in this version:

 

[dmeeksDC]

Not exactly the same but similar, this Sacks Parente Series 39 blade has tungsten in the heel and toe with a centered CG. 
 

[golferdude54]

Had to bump this thread as there was a recently published GolfWRX article about Phil Mickelson’s 8802 clone putter. Here’s him talking about the CoG and how he shifted it. I knew it!

 

[BREWMASTER95060]

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