Yes, the “leaf rule” is actually a real thing.

[TM4me]

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/leaf-rule

[sui generis]

Indeed the Model Local Rule F-14 is there for adoption by the Committee. Note that it may be instituted to apply only in the general area and in bunkers. It cannot be extended to penalty areas. 

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=8&subrulenum=6

[larrybud]

Quote

Long story short? Make sure to check with the golf course staff or tournament committee (if you’re playing in competition) before heading out for an end-of-the-year round to see if they’re implementing this local rule.

 

lol. Oblivious to public golf and most private golf.

[Mr. Bean]

44 minutes ago, larrybud said:

 

lol. Oblivious to public golf and most private golf.

 

Am I glad to live here where all golf courses have proper maintenance and a Committee drafting the Local Rules. I just wish they all knew what they were doing...

[Dufferonius]

Well I'll be damned 🤣

 

When I last played, in 2020, leaves had become a significant problem.  I recall a specific hole where I'd achieved a decent drive, but with a fairly strong fade.  From the tee the ball looked to be eminently playable, but I could see it had landed darn close to a pretty bare-looking tree and thought "Uh ohhh..."

 

Sure enough: My ball had gone into a pile of leaves so dense you could hardly have done a better job if you'd put them there with a leaf blower.  There was no way I was ever going to find my ball in there.  And I didn't.

 

This year I decided, when I start playing again, going forward I'm going to treat leaves like GUR.

 

Life's too short 😄

[KevCarter]

3 hours ago, sui generis said:

Indeed the Model Local Rule F-14 is there for adoption by the Committee. Note that it may be instituted to apply only in the general area and in bunkers. It cannot be extended to penalty areas. 

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=8&subrulenum=6

 

...and should be limited to specific, problem holes. Too often I see the "Leaf Rule" being interpreted as a blanket relief situation for the entire season and it is often abused.

 

Quote

The Local Rule should be limited to the hole(s) where problems are created by such loose impediments and should be withdrawn as soon as conditions allow.

 

 

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, sui generis said:

Indeed the Model Local Rule F-14 is there for adoption by the Committee. Note that it may be instituted to apply only in the general area and in bunkers. It cannot be extended to penalty areas. 

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=8&subrulenum=6

 

I don't see anything about finding (or not) the ball.

 

The ball MUST be found, yes ? Otherwise it's S&D (or E-5). Not so ?

[bcjim]

11 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I don't see anything about finding (or not) the ball.

 

The ball MUST be found, yes ? Otherwise it's S&D (or E-5). Not so ?

16.1e applies if the local rule is in place.

[mshills]

2 hours ago, larrybud said:

 

lol. Oblivious to public golf and most private golf.

 

I know.  The USGA needs to get out more.

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, bcjim said:

16.1e applies if the local rule is in place.

 

Ahhhhhhh, as usual, didn't read far (and/or clearly) enough.

 

Thanks. 👍

[davep043]

4 hours ago, larrybud said:

lol. Oblivious to public golf and most private golf.

 

2 hours ago, mshills said:

I know.  The USGA needs to get out more.

How should they change it?  You complain, please let us know how this issue can be better addressed?

[larrybud]

17 hours ago, davep043 said:

 

How should they change it?  You complain, please let us know how this issue can be better addressed?

How about minimal standards that a course must adhere to, with periodic review, if they are to have a legit rating/slope? e.g. staff training for course setup/maintenance, proper marking of golf course, etc. I'm sure I could think of a few others if I put my mind to it.

 

I bet you'd lose 80% of courses.

[klebs01]

30 minutes ago, larrybud said:

How about minimal standards that a course must adhere to, with periodic review, if they are to have a legit rating/slope? e.g. staff training for course setup/maintenance, proper marking of golf course, etc. I'm sure I could think of a few others if I put my mind to it.

 

I bet you'd lose 80% of courses.

what does any of that have to do with the model local rule? Courses are subject to periodic review for rating/slope. A course isn’t required to have any marking other than a tees and a cup. 
 

the one error I noticed in the article is that a course isn’t the committee, though that is a common misconception. 

[davep043]

33 minutes ago, larrybud said:

I bet you'd lose 80% of courses.

And you think that would be an improvement somehow?  I simply don't agree.

[pingfool]

Can I group of 8 make their own local rule for the day? 

[sui generis]

14 minutes ago, pingfool said:

Can I group of 8 make their own local rule for the day? 

 

Yes, you may. (The fine print, however, says that any Local Rule you wish to adopt must conform to the Model Local Rules found in Committee Procedures.)

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=8

[larrybud]

1 hour ago, klebs01 said:

what does any of that have to do with the model local rule? Courses are subject to periodic review for rating/slope. A course isn’t required to have any marking other than a tees and a cup. 
 

the one error I noticed in the article is that a course isn’t the committee, though that is a common misconception. 

 

Who do you think the "committee" is when we in the US have our GHIN index THROUGH a specific golf course?

It has to do with "local rules" in that the vast majority of courses just have a guy collecting cash inside, a beverage cart, and a maintenance staff. They don't have committees or pros, or any other people who want/try to abide by USGA recommendations or standards

I just played a course for the 2nd time in a month who have permanently moved half of their "blue" tees up a tee box without re-rating. I play another "top end" course who doesn't put tee markers out.

Do you guys even PLAY public golf? lol

[larrybud]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

And you think that would be an improvement somehow?  I simply don't agree.

Yes, it would be an improvement in that we could get the "USGA SEAL OF APPROVAL" on courses. Think of the marketing! "You don't want to play a course that doesn't live up to the USGA Standards, would you?"

Kind of like a "UL Listed" toaster, but for courses. 

I mean, what good is a course rating without minimal standards that they must meet?

[nsxguy]

7 minutes ago, larrybud said:

 

Who do you think the "committee" is when we in the US have our GHIN index THROUGH a specific golf course?

It has to do with "local rules" in that the vast majority of courses just have a guy collecting cash inside, a beverage cart, and a maintenance staff. They don't have committees or pros, or any other people who want/try to abide by USGA recommendations or standards

I just played a course for the 2nd time in a month who have permanently moved half of their "blue" tees up a tee box without re-rating. I play another "top end" course who doesn't put tee markers out.

Do you guys even PLAY public golf? lol

 

This has been covered multiple times.

 

Private courses should have a committee.

 

For public courses, YOU, and your group, are the committee - unless it's a larger, more formal competition. Then that comp should have a committee, or at the very least, a single point of contact who can make/decide local rules.

 

 

[larrybud]

1 minute ago, nsxguy said:

 

This has been covered multiple times.

 

Private courses should have a committee.

 

For public courses, YOU, and your group, are the committee - unless it's a larger, more formal competition. Then that comp should have a committee, or at the very least, a single point of contact who can make/decide local rules.

 

 

 

Yes, and it goes back to my original point "Oblivious to public golf". 

[nsxguy]

4 minutes ago, larrybud said:

Yes, it would be an improvement in that we could get the "USGA SEAL OF APPROVAL" on courses. Think of the marketing! "You don't want to play a course that doesn't live up to the USGA Standards, would you?"

Kind of like a "UL Listed" toaster, but for courses. 

I mean, what good is a course rating without minimal standards that they must meet?

 

Isn't the course rating created by associations per USGA recommendations/requirements ? If so, the very fact that it IS rated gives it the "USGA Seal of Approval", no ?

 

And with all the complaints about how handicaps are so poorly calculated, why would the course rating bother anybody ?

[larrybud]

4 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Isn't the course rating created by associations per USGA recommendations/requirements ? If so, the very fact that it IS rated gives it the "USGA Seal of Approval", no ?

 

And with all the complaints about how handicaps are so poorly calculated, why would the course rating bother anybody ?

Courses are only required to be rerated every 10 years "or when significant course changes are made". But there's nobody policing the latter.

I could set up a course a certain way and completely change it after getting rating. Trick the pin positions out, let the condition go to crap, move the tee boxes around, grow/cut the grass which was out of the ordinary for the rating, change OB to penalty areas and penalty areas to OB, run the course rater/slow on a consistent basis vs rating day, etc.

 

 

[nsxguy]

6 minutes ago, larrybud said:

Courses are only required to be rerated every 10 years "or when significant course changes are made". But there's nobody policing the latter.

I could set up a course a certain way and completely change it after getting rating. Trick the pin positions out, let the condition go to crap, move the tee boxes around, grow/cut the grass which was out of the ordinary for the rating, change OB to penalty areas and penalty areas to OB, run the course rater/slow on a consistent basis vs rating day, etc.

 

 

 

I'm sure there is some detailed information around here somewhere that describes some of the rating process.

 

I'm also pretty sure pin positions, while playing a part, IF the course is set up properly (or at least close to it), wouldn't change the course rating a bit.

 

There are also guidelines on how to set up the course, such as, but not limited to, having 6/6/6 easy/moderate and difficult pin positions during a given round, having no more than 300(?) yards difference in overall course length based on where the tees are in relation to their markers, etc.

 

Course conditions ? meh. Changing OB to PA and vice versa ? Now that could be a problem, but again, given how "nobody" trusts handicaps anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Now that's not to say the public courses always (ever ? ) actually follow the recommendations, but I'm thinking my game changes a lot more than the course does.

[klebs01]

15 minutes ago, larrybud said:

Courses are only required to be rerated every 10 years "or when significant course changes are made". But there's nobody policing the latter.

I could set up a course a certain way and completely change it after getting rating. Trick the pin positions out, let the condition go to crap, move the tee boxes around, grow/cut the grass which was out of the ordinary for the rating, change OB to penalty areas and penalty areas to OB, run the course rater/slow on a consistent basis vs rating day, etc.

 

 

the PCC takes care of all those issues. 
 

a course is never a committee. Even at a private club, it’s not the course that’s the committee, but a group of members. At a public course, the committee is the group organizing the competition, typically the people in the foursome. 

[larrybud]

6 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

the PCC takes care of all those issues. 

 

 

Let's not say things we both know aren't true.

 

 

[nsxguy]

1 minute ago, larrybud said:

 

 

Let's not say things we both know aren't true.

 

 

 

 

How about we say "the PCC is supposed to take care of all those issues" ?

 

Better ?

[klebs01]

5 minutes ago, larrybud said:

 

 

Let's not say things we both know aren't true.

 

 

how is that not true? If the course is set up significantly different on any day that results in a material difference in score retired there will be a PCC that adjust the rating. 

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

This course is a huge pain in the butt to play in the fall as like half the holes have leaf problems.  There are a couple tree lines marked with red/white stakes, but the tree lines between fairways are generally unmarked, and the landing area is consistently less than 60 yards wide.  Balls just off the fairway are generally findable in the spring/summer when the ground is clear, and I respect the lost ball rule in these situations, but it gets much tougher this time of year with both leaves and acorns.  I've often found 3-4 balls that aren't mine in the leaves under those trees, but can't find my ball to save my life.  In a casual round, I typically will just take a free drop (under the trees) in the general area where I think my ball ended up, unless it's clearly a lost ball off a bad swing.  Most of the time, your next shot is a punch back out to the fairway, anyway, so the penalty for driving it off the fairway into the trees is still generally upheld.  Would I technically be in the wrong for this?  It's a small public course and I doubt they have the care to declare a local rule but I guess I should ask, yeah?

[klebs01]

1 hour ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

This course is a huge pain in the butt to play in the fall as like half the holes have leaf problems.  There are a couple tree lines marked with red/white stakes, but the tree lines between fairways are generally unmarked, and the landing area is consistently less than 60 yards wide.  Balls just off the fairway are generally findable in the spring/summer when the ground is clear, and I respect the lost ball rule in these situations, but it gets much tougher this time of year with both leaves and acorns.  I've often found 3-4 balls that aren't mine in the leaves under those trees, but can't find my ball to save my life.  In a casual round, I typically will just take a free drop (under the trees) in the general area where I think my ball ended up, unless it's clearly a lost ball off a bad swing.  Most of the time, your next shot is a punch back out to the fairway, anyway, so the penalty for driving it off the fairway into the trees is still generally upheld.  Would I technically be in the wrong for this?  It's a small public course and I doubt they have the care to declare a local rule but I guess I should ask, yeah?

No, the course has no role in declaring a MLR is in effect. If you are playing alone then it is your decision alone, though you can’t post your score anyway so it doesn’t matter. Otherwise it would just be the group you are playing with. 

[jomatty]

5 hours ago, larrybud said:

How about minimal standards that a course must adhere to, with periodic review, if they are to have a legit rating/slope? e.g. staff training for course setup/maintenance, proper marking of golf course, etc. I'm sure I could think of a few others if I put my mind to it.

 

I bet you'd lose 80% of courses.

Yeah, you would lose at least 80% of courses.  And that seems like a terrible idea.  Those of us that play on public courses still deserve a handicap so we kinda need those course/slope ratings…