Playing "Aggressive" vs "Safe"

[alittleoverpar]

I end up playing at least one round of golf a week by myself.  This gives me the opportunity to work on something or test things out on my own without affecting my playing partners.  I decided this Summer that I would alternate between aggressive rounds and safe rounds.  For my aggressive rounds I would advance the ball as far as possible from the tee, go for all par 5s in two, and shoot at every pin.  For my safe rounds I would select a club off the tee that was likely to find the fairway, play par 5s conservatively, and not shoot at sucker pins.  Maybe not completely scientific, but I was curious what the results would be.  On the average, I shot 2 - 3 strokes better in my aggressive rounds.  To a large extent it throws out the fairways and greens argument in favor of bomb and gouge.  One factor that needs to be quantified is that all of these rounds were played on the same golf course, and it is a course that I am very familiar with.  I believe that would make any "trouble" shots that I had be somewhat easier than an equivalent shot on an unfamiliar course.  However, based on my findings, my plan is to play aggressively going forward in all rounds.

[Abh159]

Sounds like a fun experiment! I think most people don't really realize that there are more ways to play than just "aggressive" or "safe" though. You can certainly play too aggressive, too safe, or even play smart while still being aggressive.

 

I try to constantly be in the last one (smart but still aggressive). For example, if I'm looking at a tucked pin I might not fire directly at it, but I'll play it a little towards the center of the green without full on trying to just hit it in the center of the green if that makes sense. Also, I may go for a par 5 in two, but I'll play so that my miss won't end up in a bad spot.

[alittleoverpar]

4 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

Sounds like a fun experiment! I think most people don't really realize that there are more ways to play than just "aggressive" or "safe" though. You can certainly play too aggressive, too safe, or even play smart while still being aggressive.

 

I try to constantly be in the last one (smart but still aggressive). For example, if I'm looking at a tucked pin I might not fire directly at it, but I'll play it a little towards the center of the green without full on trying to just hit it in the center of the green if that makes sense. Also, I may go for a par 5 in two, but I'll play so that my miss won't end up in a bad spot.

Prior to doing this experiment, I think I would have classified myself exactly that way.  I wouldn't necessarily take on every tucked pin or go for every par 5 in two.  I may be crazy, but I think what I found was that taking those challenges on actually freed me up to hit good shots in most cases.  Of course my whole theory may fall apart next week!  🤣🤣 

[Z1ggy16]

Makes sense... I think Broadie pretty much showed the closer you get the ball to the hole on each shot, the lower the scores go. Means no laying up unless there's OB or hazard near by. 

 

For me, I have several thousand shots in Arccos and being in the rough has almost no bearing on my scores. As long as being aggressive doesn't result in penalty strokes, always advance the ball as far as you can. 

[nsxguy]

21 minutes ago, alittleoverpar said:

I end up playing at least one round of golf a week by myself.  This gives me the opportunity to work on something or test things out on my own without affecting my playing partners.  I decided this Summer that I would alternate between aggressive rounds and safe rounds.  For my aggressive rounds I would advance the ball as far as possible from the tee, go for all par 5s in two, and shoot at every pin.  For my safe rounds I would select a club off the tee that was likely to find the fairway, play par 5s conservatively, and not shoot at sucker pins.  Maybe not completely scientific, but I was curious what the results would be.  On the average, I shot 2 - 3 strokes better in my aggressive rounds.  To a large extent it throws out the fairways and greens argument in favor of bomb and gouge.  One factor that needs to be quantified is that all of these rounds were played on the same golf course, and it is a course that I am very familiar with.  I believe that would make any "trouble" shots that I had be somewhat easier than an equivalent shot on an unfamiliar course.  However, based on my findings, my plan is to play aggressively going forward in all rounds.

 

Color me not surprised.

 

The 2 GOATs show us that you need to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. (Sorry Kenny )

 

About 5 years or so ago, while already understanding proximity to the hole is king, I read on these very pages that the smart play on par 5s, and even shortish par 4s, taking into consideration any trouble you can reach/get into, perhaps better known as "course management"), is to get as close to the green as possible.

 

I used to lay up to a full swing wedge yardage.

 

After reading the strategy here, I started to get as close to the green as possible.

 

It works. It has definitely provided more pars, and make-able birdie tries.

 

Let us know your results.

[golfandfishing]

Playing aggressive means hitting the shot gives you the best chance to score well. Hitting a 2 iron to a green with water and other trouble all around it by a guy who is a poor long iron player is not aggressive. It’s dumb. The most aggressive play for that player is a layup and a wedge to make a 4 or a 5. 

[PracticeSwinger]

35 minutes ago, alittleoverpar said:

I end up playing at least one round of golf a week by myself.  This gives me the opportunity to work on something or test things out on my own without affecting my playing partners.  I decided this Summer that I would alternate between aggressive rounds and safe rounds.  For my aggressive rounds I would advance the ball as far as possible from the tee, go for all par 5s in two, and shoot at every pin.  For my safe rounds I would select a club off the tee that was likely to find the fairway, play par 5s conservatively, and not shoot at sucker pins.  Maybe not completely scientific, but I was curious what the results would be.  On the average, I shot 2 - 3 strokes better in my aggressive rounds.  To a large extent it throws out the fairways and greens argument in favor of bomb and gouge. 

 

16 minutes ago, Z1ggy16 said:

Makes sense... I think Broadie pretty much showed the closer you get the ball to the hole on each shot, the lower the scores go. Means no laying up unless there's OB or hazard near by. 

 

For me, I have several thousand shots in Arccos and being in the rough has almost no bearing on my scores. As long as being aggressive doesn't result in penalty strokes, always advance the ball as far as you can. 

 

3 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

About 5 years or so ago, while already understanding proximity to the hole is king, I read on these very pages that the smart play on par 5s, and even shortish par 4s, taking into consideration any trouble you can reach/get into, perhaps better known as "course management"), is to get as close to the green as possible.

 

I used to lay up to a full swing wedge yardage.

 

After reading the strategy here, I started to get as close to the green as possible.

 

It works. It has definitely provided more pars, and make-able birdie tries.

 

Correct on all accounts... play aggressive to conservative targets : i.e. as close to the green/hole as possible where your normal tendencies don't bring penalties/big numbers into play... you make those conscious decisions before the shot, PSR, lock in to your window/target and let your swing take over from there - it frees you up

[alittleoverpar]

7 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

 

 

 

Correct on all accounts... play aggressive to conservative targets : i.e. as close to the green/hole as possible where your normal tendencies don't bring penalties/big numbers into play... you make those conscious decisions before the shot, PSR, lock in to your window/target and let your swing take over from there - it frees you up

I think this is what I discovered.  On my aggressive days, I wasn't trying to decide if I wanted to hit the aggressive shot or not.  All I had to think about was how I was going to make the shot happen.

[Pepperturbo]

50 minutes ago, alittleoverpar said:

I end up playing at least one round of golf a week by myself.  This gives me the opportunity to work on something or test things out on my own without affecting my playing partners.  I decided this Summer that I would alternate between aggressive rounds and safe rounds.  For my aggressive rounds I would advance the ball as far as possible from the tee, go for all par 5s in two, and shoot at every pin.  For my safe rounds I would select a club off the tee that was likely to find the fairway, play par 5s conservatively, and not shoot at sucker pins.  Maybe not completely scientific, but I was curious what the results would be.  On the average, I shot 2 - 3 strokes better in my aggressive rounds.  To a large extent it throws out the fairways and greens argument in favor of bomb and gouge.  One factor that needs to be quantified is that all of these rounds were played on the same golf course, and it is a course that I am very familiar with.  I believe that would make any "trouble" shots that I had be somewhat easier than an equivalent shot on an unfamiliar course.  However, based on my findings, my plan is to play aggressively going forward in all rounds.

That may be the case for you, but in tournaments on more challenging tracks, winning is the goal, so I think not.  There are times to play aggressive and times to play more conservative, and times when I have mixed both.  My lowest scores even Par 72 to 68 came when using course mgt and reason, and ignored pressure of the event.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Pepperturbo

[PhilsFanDrew]

47 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

Playing aggressive means hitting the shot gives you the best chance to score well. Hitting a 2 iron to a green with water and other trouble all around it by a guy who is a poor long iron player is not aggressive. It’s dumb. The most aggressive play for that player is a layup and a wedge to make a 4 or a 5. 

 

Totally agree and sometimes you also have to consider the lie.  Perfect example is this long par 4 at my home course.  It's 415 from the white tees and there is a creek that runs 30 yards in front of the green that you have to carry.  The tee shot does play downhill with a generous fairway so if you hit a good shot it should bound pretty far down the fairway and leave you a pretty level lie with only 125-140 to the hole (90-110) to carry the creek.  On wet conditions if you hit a poor drive in the rough you won't get the roll out and you could have 185 to the hole and have to carry nearly 160 off a downhill lie.  Going for the green with that distance, lie, and my skill level is to your point, dumb.  Instead the play is to lay it up in the flat part of the fairway before it runs out into rough before the creek to leave myself an easy pitch to the green to at minimum give myself a putt for par. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by PhilsFanDrew

[alittleoverpar]

1 minute ago, PhilsFanDrew said:

 

Totally agree and sometimes you also have to consider the lie.  Perfect example is this long par 4 at my home course.  It's 415 from the white tees and there is a creek that runs 30 yards in front of the green that you have to carry.  The tee shot does play downhill with a generous fairway so if you hit a good shot it should bound pretty far down the fairway and leave you a pretty level lie with only 125-140 to the hole (90-110) to carry the creek.  On wet conditions if you hit a poor drive in the rough you won't get the roll out and you could have 185 to the hole and have to carry nearly 160 off a downhill lie.  Going for the green with that distance, lie, and my skill level is to your point, dumb.  Instead the play is to lay it up in the flat part of the fairway before it runs out into rough before the creek to leave myself and easy pitch to the green to minimum give myself a putt for par. 

I guess I should clarify a bit.  When playing aggressively, I would choose the aggressive shot if I believed it was possible for me to hit it.  If I had a 275 carry over water, there is no way I would hit that shot because I don't have it.  I think for me it was an exercise in getting outside my normal box of conservative play and realizing that the downside of playing a risky shot is often less that I thought.  

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

Go for it, Roy!  I always play God hates a coward golf, I only play once a week so not laying up.

[Blaiser]

I think the hardest part is distinguishing the difference between aggressive and crazy. I know I mess this up a lot.

[596]

This is one of the reasons that you shouldn't keep score everytime you play.  If you always play for a score you'll never try those shots on the course you should learn.  

 

I keep score only once per week.  The other 2 days I play are practice rounds where I'm trying shots I don't use when keeping score.  

 

To being aggressive or not, for me, really has not much use.  Our greens are small pedestals built in 1925.  If you hit to the middle of each green you'll have a decent putt at it.  If you miss your ball is headed off the green, down a hill, into the rough.  

Edited September 28, 2022 by 596

[MtlJeff]

As has been said, playing aggressive vs playing dumb are two different things. But once you figure that out yes playing aggressive is demonstrably better in the longer term.

 

I see a lot of golfers , even decent ones, do things like hit 5 iron to lay up on par 5s because they don't want to hit a poor approach and take a penalty or something. Over the longer term in a fairly normative course, this strategy is always worse. 

[huskydawg]

If the player has bad technique, it becomes an interesting decision.  The dispersion of a 3 or 5 wood with bad technique makes it much more dangerous to lay up with compared to something like a 5 or 6 iron.  Before my swing overhaul I've blasted 5 wood "layups" into the trees more often than I care to count.

[dsmil]

I do think that playing aggressively off the tee can raise the ceiling of your game.  I've played more aggressively this year in order to find confidence in my driver, and although my average scores haven't budged, my handicap has moved down because I'm throwing in more low scores than usual.  It's just a lot easier to go low when I have a nice day with the driver and am hitting wedges in, rather than taking a hybrid off the tee and hitting mid-irons to greens.  I've also found more confidence in my driver, which I haven't had for years when I was avoiding it off the tee.  

[larrybud]

Did you play recovery shots any differently?
 

Punching out sideways to a FW vs threading it through a couple of trees 50 yards away, etc.

 

 

[alittleoverpar]

5 minutes ago, larrybud said:

Did you play recovery shots any differently?
 

Punching out sideways to a FW vs threading it through a couple of trees 50 yards away, etc.

 

 

If it was a recovery shot I thought I could pull off I took the more aggressive option.  I did not try to hit any shots that I thought were impossible for me to execute.  

[Ri_Redneck]

This totally depends on the course. If your course has wide fairways, thin rough or bailout areas that suit your miss - then aggressive will win almost every time. Go to a course that is the opposite and the outcome will probably be different.

 

BT

[PNWGuy]

37 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

This totally depends on the course. If your course has wide fairways, thin rough or bailout areas that suit your miss - then aggressive will win almost every time. Go to a course that is the opposite and the outcome will probably be different.

 

BT

It also depends on how you are striking the ball that day, the weather, how you stand in match play and a dozen other factors.  I don't think it's and either / or answer.  It's part of what what makes golf fun and maddening at the same time.

[J_Tizzle]

Lots of good comments here, aggressive =/= dumb is probably the best one.  I typically play "aggressively conservative" which I know is an oxymoron, but what it mostly means is I take good and aggressive swings towards my target that might not always be the pin.  Center pin and a perfect yardage, I go for it.  Tucked pin with trouble just past the pin, I'll play the shot that a perfect shot gets me there, but a good shot ends up in the middle of the green for a 2 putt.  Then just pick your targets while avoiding penalty strokes while still doing what you can to hit greens.  

 

With that said, I did read an article talking about how Cantley was the best par 5 player in 2022 and he essentially went for the green the highest % of time vs everyone else.  So with that said, I have started to take out a 3 wood and just mash a shot as close to the green as possible vs just playing to a yardage (while avoiding hazards).  I just started trying it so no conclusive results yet.  

[J_Tizzle]

On 9/29/2022 at 1:46 PM, alittleoverpar said:

If it was a recovery shot I thought I could pull off I took the more aggressive option.  I did not try to hit any shots that I thought were impossible for me to execute.  

 

See this is what I consider a "dumb vs aggressive" shot.  Dumb to try to thread the needle through a bunch of trees 50 yards in front of you, but aggressive to shape the ball around the trees to 100 yards vs chipping out sideways to a 200 yard shot.  To me, if the shot doesn't make your par opportunity a mostly simple situation (straight forward chip and putt) then take it on the chin and play the "aggressive" shot to a yardage you like and go from there.  

[Ri_Redneck]

Yes, SMART aggressive, not just aggressive!

 

BT

[SNIPERBBB]

13 hours ago, J_Tizzle said:

Lots of good comments here, aggressive =/= dumb is probably the best one.  I typically play "aggressively conservative" which I know is an oxymoron, but what it mostly means is I take good and aggressive swings towards my target that might not always be the pin.  Center pin and a perfect yardage, I go for it.  Tucked pin with trouble just past the pin, I'll play the shot that a perfect shot gets me there, but a good shot ends up in the middle of the green for a 2 putt.  Then just pick your targets while avoiding penalty strokes while still doing what you can to hit greens.  

 

With that said, I did read an article talking about how Cantley was the best par 5 player in 2022 and he essentially went for the green the highest % of time vs everyone else.  So with that said, I have started to take out a 3 wood and just mash a shot as close to the green as possible vs just playing to a yardage (while avoiding hazards).  I just started trying it so no conclusive results yet.  

I look at it as hitting the most aggressive shot with the least amount of risk of bringing double bogey into play. Unless you're ball striking skills are that bad that the chances of pulling the shot off or missing in a decent place is practically nill then a safer shot might be more called for. Then again, if you're ball striking is that bad, even the safe shot most likely isnt that safe so you might as well hit the aggressive shot. 

[MelloYello]

Pars are great but everybody needs to make more birdies. 

 

And in most cases the only way to consistently do that is by pulling off high-value shots (which can mean taking on more risk). 

[larrybud]

2 hours ago, MelloYello said:

Pars are great but everybody needs to make more birdies. 

 

And in most cases the only way to consistently do that is by pulling off high-value shots (which can mean taking on more risk). 

 

10 handicappers aren't about making birdies, they are about not making doubles and worse.

 

[MelloYello]

1 hour ago, larrybud said:

 

10 handicappers aren't about making birdies, they are about not making doubles and worse.

 

 

Actually, by definition, 10 handicappers need more birdies, too.

 

[larrybud]

22 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

Actually, by definition, 10 handicappers need more birdies, too.

 

But that's not where they are losing the most strokes. 

[MelloYello]

48 minutes ago, larrybud said:

But that's not where they are losing the most strokes. 

 

"On the way to birdies, many pars are found." 

 

-Confucius, Swing Secrets of the Master