Ping custom build experience....thank you!

[bk12]

This saga has ended with my clubs built as intended.  Thanks Ping!  For anyone interested in the finale, my final post summarizes how this all ended up. 

 

I have edited the topic to put my actual questions to you folks in the beginning of my long winded share....I can see folks getting lost about half way through this one....

 

Questions for my fellow golf fanatics on here:  Am I crazy to expect a Ping build to spec to actually hit the spec, at least reasonably?  Also, is there any other OEM building quality clubs that welcomes custom orders on new sets and actually hits the build specs within reason?  I can't believe that the quality and attention to detail appears to be dropping as these OEMs race toward $2K a set for a set of chinese cast iron heads (we would probably be shocked to see what little these cost an OEM)? 

 

I get that I am a simple, average-ish golfer and golf consumer.  I get that my inner club geek enjoys ordering irons to their custom spec on the rare occasion I break down to buy a set from a shop, brand new at full retail (which is ridiculous these days....a Chinese cast head with steel shafts at over $1100/set?).  I also get that I am probably wandering into the ol' curmudgeon territory these days.......now, all that being said....

 

I am a bit frustrated with my favorite large OEM.  I decided to pick up a set of uber forgiving cavity backs to pull out on months when I haven't gotten to hit many balls.  Being a bit of a Ping homer, decided to go with the G425 irons.  I worked with the retailer to spec swingweight, and then ordered the clubs with Kushin inserts, PS lofts and tape build up + midsize grips.  These were all standard options for Ping, and I didn't spec anything outside of their stock build options.  Clubs come in, and I check them out.  Swingweights are wrong, completely wrong grip and no buildup tape to even try to fake the midsize grip.  I call Ping, and they tell me they were out of midsize grips, so they apparently just installed the standard size with no buildup, and apparently hoped I wouldn't notice as neither they, nor the retailer said a peep (the retailer did confirm that they put my order in correctly).  Then the swing weights were all off (I ordered a progression in swingweight....which is a bit of a PIA, but they are happy to do it with all their custom weighting tech and I don't feel bad going with my full equipment nerd spec at these prices).  Well, I call Ping and tell them I am happy to send them in for adjustment to be as ordered, but I am informed that it is impossible for Ping to re-swingweight G425 clubs after they have been built, and there will need to be a new set produced (interesting). Ok, they are happy to issue a call tag and send me a new set, a bit annoying, but ok.  On the grips, they said they couldn't offer a time for getting the +1/32 grip due to their stocking issues, so I told them I would be fine just having standard grips thrown in the box loose, so I don't have to deal with cutting a brand new set of grips off the new clubs that I just custom ordered (its sad to cut off brand new grips, aside from the small headache).

 

They turn the new set exceptionally quick (very good), but I open them up Friday night on arrival to find they only sent me 4 clubs.  No notice by phone, email, or the order enclosed that indicated they meant to ship only half my clubs back.  Ok, not a big deal as these are basically a backup set.  I call Ping Monday morning and find out the rest are being built and will eventually be shipped, ok.    I measured the half of the set I have, and looking them over, only 1/4 has a PowerSpec sticker, and the Kushin stickers are misaligned on the clubs......definitely not a huge deal, but sort of figured Ping could at least make them visibly shelf-similar on a problem rebuild set.  I then measure them on a heavy duty precision loft/lie machine (Golfmechanix) and find that one of the four clearly has a standard loft, while the other three are PS (as ordered).....I will give them credit for hitting the exact lofts and lies....they just got 1/4 wrong/different than the other 3/4.  I decided to just bend it to the right specs, but really annoyed that not only did they get them wrong, but they got one of them completely mis-lofted from the others, which would be really annoying to gap, to say the least.  

 

I am sorry, but I always liked that Ping was the first OEM to custom fit and custom build as part of their core identity, before anyone else was even thinking about custom options in the OEM world.  They were sort of the engineer's club company (as an engineer by education, I always appreciated that about them).  Their attention to detail and wide range of custom options that they are capable of hitting was what made them special in my opinion (it also used to be that they were willing to pay extra to manufacture in the USA while the others had all left to overseas manufacturing....but I realize those days are long gone). 

 

Ping, you used to charge a premium, but you provided an incredible club, custom fit and built to those custom fit specs.  How did you end up here?   

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by bk12

[wee stones]

That’s a lot of words. Could you reduce the amount of words? I think it would help if there were less words.

[Ghostwedge]

If your specs are within their build guidelines then you have every right to expect excellent customer service. Sounds like the order got shuffled off to "oh well" as they're busy with the new release 430 lineup. 

Long time Ping player, sorry to read this happening.

[bk12]

28 minutes ago, wee stones said:

That’s a lot of words. Could you reduce the amount of words? I think it would help if there were less words.

Yeah, I could have put up a youtube video or plaster some tidbits on social media for the youngins'.....but apparently you missed the part about being a curmudgeon. 

[bk12]

28 minutes ago, Ghostwedge said:

If your specs are within their build guidelines then you have every right to expect excellent customer service. Sounds like the order got shuffled off to "oh well" as they're busy with the new release 430 lineup. 

Long time Ping player, sorry to read this happening.

Really just curious if my expectations are out of whack for today's world?  I guess I should be happy they are investing in ad budgets and marketing campaigns (not)......but that isn't what Ping built their brand on.  I am just tired of paying more for less these days (inflation aside)....let me tell you, back in the day, before COVID and all.....  🙂

Edited October 5, 2022 by bk12

[noodle3872]

15 minutes ago, bk12 said:

Really just curious if my expectations are out of whack for today's world?  I guess I should be happy they are investing in ad budgets and marketing campaigns (not)......but that isn't what Ping built their brand on.  I am just tired of paying more for less these days (inflation aside)....let me tell you, back in the day, before COVID and all.....  🙂

Yes, you are expecting too much from an OEM. They are pumping out so much gear that build sheets don’t seem to matter. They have their spec targets and to them that is good enough. I’ve given up ordering from OEM’s because of this lack of precision. I now use Ben at The Tour Van exclusively because he nails spec each and every time. Costs more me move but what price do you put on peace of mind knowing exactly what you want is exactly what you get?

[bk12]

Just now, noodle3872 said:

Yes, you are expecting too much from an OEM. They are pumping out so much gear that build sheets don’t seem to matter. They have their spec targets and to them that is good enough. I’ve given up ordering from OEM’s because of this lack of precision. I now use Ben at The Tour Van exclusively because he nails spec each and every time. Costs more me move but what price do you put on peace of mind knowing exactly what you want is exactly what you get?

Thanks for the input, really appreciate it. 

[SteelieD]

It’s a lot of words but I read them all. Yay me. 
 

1. You seem to be more accommodating than I’d be. I’d be pissed.
 

2. I don’t think it makes one bit of difference what they built they’re name on, they offered “customization” and they failed miserably. 
 

I may be an old curmudgeon as well but it seems to me that with supply chain issues and such, it would be an opportunity to provide even better customer service while others are failing. It’s a common them among the big manufacturers. They figure they’ve “got us” so screw it take what we’ve got. 
 

Sorry this happened and good luck getting it squared away. Next time buy New Level. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by SteelieD

[Sparty4202]

22 hours ago, SteelieD said:

It’s a lot of words but I read them all. Yay me. 
 

1. You seem to be more accommodating than I’d be. I’d be pissed.
 

2. I don’t think it makes one bit of difference what they built they’re name on, they offered “customization” and they failed miserably. 
 

I may be an old curmudgeon as well but it seems to me that with supply chain issues and such, it would be an opportunity to provide even better customer service while others are failing. It’s a common them among the big manufacturers. They figure they’ve “got us” so screw it take what we’ve got. 
 

Sorry this happened and good luck getting it squared away. Next time buy New Level. 

Even New Level isn’t always spot on… my set came in and the PW & AW’s lies were both off of my ordered specs and I found the New Levels to be a 1/8” longer to spec according to my Mitchell Ruler. Both were easy to fix but unless you have access to a builder or do your own builds you’ll never get exactly what you want.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Sparty4202

[Socrates]

The new Ping swing weighting process is brutal, IMO.  It has been since the introduction of the G700 a few years ago.  It is complete junk that renders any modification to be a real PITA and impossible unless you have access to a full complement of tools, ferrules and weights that you can customize to work.  Not as bad if you want to increase SW, but if you need to decrease it - yikes.  Must be a complete shite show on the assembly floor.

 

There should be no excuse for the lies and lofts being off.  I mean, it's fundamental to their building process.  For them to screw it up means that everything they do is no longer credible.

 

FWIW, since I can do all the adjustments myself, I would no longer be confident in almost any OEM right now.  I would, if and when I order new irons (I mean, it might happen soon), I would order them with over length shafts and the grips off.  Then tear them down and rebuild to spec.  There really isn't any alternative if you want them to be accurate.

 

[kjbuckeye]

27 minutes ago, Sparty4202 said:

Even New Level isn’t always spot on… my set came in and the PW & AW’s lies were both off of my ordered specs and I found the New Levels to be a 1/8” longer to spec according to my Mitchell Ruler. Both were easy to fix but unless you have access to a builder or do you own builds you’ll never get exactly what you want.

The 1/8" difference is most likely the butt cap of the grip. Some folks include the butt cap in the length, some don't. 

[kjbuckeye]

It's not uncommon. I've always seen loft and lies come in slightly off. Some worse than others. Minor differences could be just a difference in the loft/lie machine. 

 

The other issues are sloppy build practices and aren't acceptable, but you probably won't get Ping to fix it. Their build video on youtube would make you think Ping has  it down to a science and anyone could build clubs exactly to spec. 

[larrybud]

Wrong grips: unacceptable.

 

Loft/lie: How much are they off? I would expect +/- 1 degree should be acceptable just due to the tolerance of their machine AND yours.

 

Stickers: Not sure what those are.

[MountainKing]

These companies make their money through mass production, none of them are good at custom orders because that's not where they make money.  If you want something custom, and something done right, you either need to go through a manufacture who specializes in that, or go through something like a Club Champion who will handle the work.  Most OEM's churn em out and probably hope a majority of people aren't going to notice or check, and a majority probably don't. 

[MattM97]

I think all OEM's are swamped with orders especially Ping, best option is order through an independent club builder and have them bend and build your clubs to specs. 

[third-times-a-charm]

To be completely honest I dont expect any OEM to match requested specs over stock and there's too much turmoil in that process as you can see and I'm surprised a large OEM even entertains it anymore. Normally nowadays you'll get a response of "We'll do our best" from OEMs regarding SW and loft/lie because they streamline their process and only have so many OEM weights available for use, and loft/lie is always +-1* depending who's eye is looking at the gauges and the machine being used being off or not.

 

When I want something with a specific length/SW/progression/loft-lie/etc and especially a combination of those things - I'll order a stock set and have them rebuilt by a reputable local builder (aka myself or a shop for friends) and bring it to a shop to double-inspect loft/lie and SW on a different scale than mine.

 

YMMV but thats the only way to truly get something that specific.

Edited October 5, 2022 by third-times-a-charm

[Robby_Hughey]

Being swamped, busy, buried, inundated, whatever synonym we want to call it, is not an excuse for OEM's to deliver poor quality products. Paying more to get less? Nah. 

 

I'm a relatively young curmudgeon (28). However, expecting to receive what you paid a premium price for is not unreasonable. Fortunately, we have an awesome custom club builder in Kansas City called Golf MD (no I don't receive anything for mentioning their name). Recommendation - double check OEM work. It's an unfortunate reality. 

[Ted2]

11 hours ago, noodle3872 said:

Yes, you are expecting too much from an OEM. They are pumping out so much gear that build sheets don’t seem to matter. They have their spec targets and to them that is good enough. I’ve given up ordering from OEM’s because of this lack of precision. I now use Ben at The Tour Van exclusively because he nails spec each and every time. Costs more me move but what price do you put on peace of mind knowing exactly what you want is exactly what you get?

Also agree with this...find you a local guy who you can trust to make any adjustments to OEM clubs you get. 

[WristySwing]

13 hours ago, bk12 said:

I have edited the topic to put my actual questions to you folks in the beginning of my long winded share....I can see folks getting lost about half way through this one....

 

Questions for my fellow golf fanatics on here:  Am I crazy to expect a Ping build to spec to actually hit the spec, at least reasonably?  Also, is there any other OEM building quality clubs that welcomes custom orders on new sets and actually hits the build specs within reason?  I can't believe that the quality and attention to detail appears to be dropping as these OEMs race toward $2K a set for a set of chinese cast iron heads (we would probably be shocked to see what little these cost an OEM)? 

 

I get that I am a simple, average-ish golfer and golf consumer.  I get that my inner club geek enjoys ordering irons to their custom spec on the rare occasion I break down to buy a set from a shop, brand new at full retail (which is ridiculous these days....a Chinese cast head with steel shafts at over $1100/set?).  I also get that I am probably wandering into the ol' curmudgeon territory these days.......now, all that being said....

 

I am a bit frustrated with my favorite large OEM.  I decided to pick up a set of uber forgiving cavity backs to pull out on months when I haven't gotten to hit many balls.  Being a bit of a Ping homer, decided to go with the G425 irons.  I worked with the retailer to spec swingweight, and then ordered the clubs with Kushin inserts, PS lofts and tape build up + midsize grips.  These were all standard options for Ping, and I didn't spec anything outside of their stock build options.  Clubs come in, and I check them out.  Swingweights are wrong, completely wrong grip and no buildup tape to even try to fake the midsize grip.  I call Ping, and they tell me they were out of midsize grips, so they apparently just installed the standard size with no buildup, and apparently hoped I wouldn't notice as neither they, nor the retailer said a peep (the retailer did confirm that they put my order in correctly).  Then the swing weights were all off (I ordered a progression in swingweight....which is a bit of a PIA, but they are happy to do it with all their custom weighting tech and I don't feel bad going with my full equipment nerd spec at these prices).  Well, I call Ping and tell them I am happy to send them in for adjustment to be as ordered, but I am informed that it is impossible for Ping to re-swingweight G425 clubs after they have been built, and there will need to be a new set produced (interesting). Ok, they are happy to issue a call tag and send me a new set, a bit annoying, but ok.  On the grips, they said they couldn't offer a time for getting the +1/32 grip due to their stocking issues, so I told them I would be fine just having standard grips thrown in the box loose, so I don't have to deal with cutting a brand new set of grips off the new clubs that I just custom ordered (its sad to cut off brand new grips, aside from the small headache).

 

They turn the new set exceptionally quick (very good), but I open them up Friday night on arrival to find they only sent me 4 clubs.  No notice by phone, email, or the order enclosed that indicated they meant to ship only half my clubs back.  Ok, not a big deal as these are basically a backup set.  I call Ping Monday morning and find out the rest are being built and will eventually be shipped, ok.    I measured the half of the set I have, and looking them over, only 1/4 has a PowerSpec sticker, and the Kushin stickers are misaligned on the clubs......definitely not a huge deal, but sort of figured Ping could at least make them visibly shelf-similar on a problem rebuild set.  I then measure them on a heavy duty precision loft/lie machine (Golfmechanix) and find that one of the four clearly has a standard loft, while the other three are PS (as ordered).....I will give them credit for hitting the exact lofts and lies....they just got 1/4 wrong/different than the other 3/4.  I decided to just bend it to the right specs, but really annoyed that not only did they get them wrong, but they got one of them completely mis-lofted from the others, which would be really annoying to gap, to say the least.  

 

I am sorry, but I always liked that Ping was the first OEM to custom fit and custom build as part of their core identity, before anyone else was even thinking about custom options in the OEM world.  They were sort of the engineer's club company (as an engineer by education, I always appreciated that about them).  Their attention to detail and wide range of custom options that they are capable of hitting was what made them special in my opinion (it also used to be that they were willing to pay extra to manufacture in the USA while the others had all left to overseas manufacturing....but I realize those days are long gone). 

 

Ping, you used to charge a premium, but you provided an incredible club, custom fit and built to those custom fit specs.  How did you end up here?   

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it is unreasonable for you to expect to get midsize grips, power spec lofts, and the proper stickers. I do think it is a bit of an issue to ask for out-of-the-norm swing weights though.  It's not an excuse mind you, but with Ping moving to toe screws and tip weights, hitting non-standard swing weights is very difficult.  However, I am also of the camp that a SW is what it is.  That if you order head A + shaft A + grip A at length A, it's going to be swingweight A.  The people who take head A + shaft A + grip A at length A but expect swingweight Z are the ones that annoy me since most of the time SW is arbitrary and means nothing.  

 

At any rate, if they were mine, I'd just spend the extra $50 it costs to take them to a local builder, have them bent and be on with it. Especially with the 425, they are incredibly easy to bend. I will say, Titleist and Srixon are usually bang on spec.  Mizuno is a roulette wheel, sometimes its perfect, other times its so far off it doesn't even look like the same club anymore.  Taylormade is always good to be within parameters on about 80% of the set and then 2-3 clubs are way off that it leaves you scratching your head.  Stock Ping is usually pretty okay.  

[bk12]

2 hours ago, larrybud said:

Wrong grips: unacceptable.

 

Loft/lie: How much are they off? I would expect +/- 1 degree should be acceptable just due to the tolerance of their machine AND yours.

 

Stickers: Not sure what those are.

Loft Lie:  the good news is that they were all exactly to the number....but the 1/4 that was built to non-PS spec was 2 degrees week of what was ordered (it was exactly correct for non PS spec).  They were as impressively on the spec, just got some of the specs messed up.

 

Stickers:  just referring to shaft labels.  I guess I have built so many sets of clubs through the years, and while I don't think its a big deal, seems like they could have paid a little more attention to detail. 

[bk12]

11 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

I don't think it is unreasonable for you to expect to get midsize grips, power spec lofts, and the proper stickers. I do think it is a bit of an issue to ask for out-of-the-norm swing weights though.  It's not an excuse mind you, but with Ping moving to toe screws and tip weights, hitting non-standard swing weights is very difficult.  However, I am also of the camp that a SW is what it is.  That if you order head A + shaft A + grip A at length A, it's going to be swingweight A.  The people who take head A + shaft A + grip A at length A but expect swingweight Z are the ones that annoy me since most of the time SW is arbitrary and means nothing.  

 

At any rate, if they were mine, I'd just spend the extra $50 it costs to take them to a local builder, have them bent and be on with it. Especially with the 425, they are incredibly easy to bend. I will say, Titleist and Srixon are usually bang on spec.  Mizuno is a roulette wheel, sometimes its perfect, other times its so far off it doesn't even look like the same club anymore.  Taylormade is always good to be within parameters on about 80% of the set and then 2-3 clubs are way off that it leaves you scratching your head.  Stock Ping is usually pretty okay.  

 

I hear you.  I actually have built a few hundred sets of clubs over the last 30 years (when I was younger, I used to custom fit and build sets for folks), but haven't done it professionally for about 25 years (I still go full club nerd on my own stuff, and that of friends).  That being said, if I am paying full retail for a set of OEM irons that offer customization, I was hoping I could find someone to get them a little closer.  I generally buy used, preferably just heads, and build them up like I wanted....but occasionally will spring for a brand new club, and its usually from Ping as I put such a high value on their ability to customize (and they are generally great clubs).  I know Ping does a better job than me with all the amazing adjustment and measuring processes and tools I have seen on all their factory floor videos...they just have to get the order build executed correctly.

 

Agree on SW, was just trying to get them relatively set to each other vs. hitting any specific number, for the reasons you mentioned.  It just annoys me to be putting lead tape on a brand new set of custom irons that are designed with a number of custom swingweighting features integrated into them.

[bk12]

All, thank you for all the comments.  They all make sense, and I appreciate the reality check. 

 

I will say that Ping customer service has been very pleasant and responsive through this whole thing.  I am confident they will get it all right, its just a bit annoying that it seems to be much more painful than it should be.

[MountainKing]

4 hours ago, Robby_Hughey said:

Being swamped, busy, buried, inundated, whatever synonym we want to call it, is not an excuse for OEM's to deliver poor quality products. Paying more to get less? Nah. 

 

I'm a relatively young curmudgeon (28). However, expecting to receive what you paid a premium price for is not unreasonable. Fortunately, we have an awesome custom club builder in Kansas City called Golf MD (no I don't receive anything for mentioning their name). Recommendation - double check OEM work. It's an unfortunate reality. 

 

Except you're not really paying a premium.  Most of the OEM's don't upcharge for loft/lie/length/SW requests, outside of grip/shaft upcharge, you're paying the same as somebody pays who gets an off the shelf set.   This is why if you actually want it done right, you do need to pay a premium and have a club builder do it.  

[WristySwing]

3 hours ago, bk12 said:

 

I hear you.  I actually have built a few hundred sets of clubs over the last 30 years (when I was younger, I used to custom fit and build sets for folks), but haven't done it professionally for about 25 years (I still go full club nerd on my own stuff, and that of friends).  That being said, if I am paying full retail for a set of OEM irons that offer customization, I was hoping I could find someone to get them a little closer.  I generally buy used, preferably just heads, and build them up like I wanted....but occasionally will spring for a brand new club, and its usually from Ping as I put such a high value on their ability to customize (and they are generally great clubs).  I know Ping does a better job than me with all the amazing adjustment and measuring processes and tools I have seen on all their factory floor videos...they just have to get the order build executed correctly.

 

Agree on SW, was just trying to get them relatively set to each other vs. hitting any specific number, for the reasons you mentioned.  It just annoys me to be putting lead tape on a brand new set of custom irons that are designed with a number of custom swingweighting features integrated into them.

 

I think this is a fairly handy checklist for what we should expect from an OEM factory:

 

Heads are correct = Yes, 100% of the time.

Shafts are correct make/model/flex/weight = Yes, 100% of the time

Grip model and size = Yes, 100% of the time

Grip straight = No promises but probably passable

Lie angle = Within 1*

Loft = Within 1*

Swingweight = +/- 2 points from stated

[Nessism]

If we are to believe the videos showing Ping's manufacturing floor, it should be a no-brainer to build a custom set to exact specs.  Either these videos are lies, or their workers have devised devilish ways of circumventing the controls that seem to be in place.  Even swingweight should be a no-brainer in large part.  Or at least, it should be able to specify the heaviest or lightest configuration, in extreme cases, and throw a flag showing an out of compliance club.

[GolfTurkey]

I could use many words to describe my Ping clown show experiences over the past few years, but I'll limit it to my personal favourite (there's stiff competition): I ordered a G425 Max driver and received a G425 SFT driver ... with "Max" stamped on it !!!

 

It's still a small sample size, but my orders via Ping Europe are looking a lot more promising than those via Phoenix. Orders delivered fast and on spec so far.

 

[bk12]

58 minutes ago, Nessism said:

If we are to believe the videos showing Ping's manufacturing floor, it should be a no-brainer to build a custom set to exact specs.  Either these videos are lies, or their workers have devised devilish ways of circumventing the controls that seem to be in place.  Even swingweight should be a no-brainer in large part.  Or at least, it should be able to specify the heaviest or lightest configuration, in extreme cases, and throw a flag showing an out of compliance club.

Ness, I was thinking the same exact thing.  I know you are an engineer as well, and was thinking alike.  I will say they hit the specs programmed dead-on, but unfortunately, the inputs were mixed up between order and the floor execution.

[chisag]

13 hours ago, Sparty4202 said:

 but unless you have access to a builder or do you own builds you’ll never get exactly what you want.

 

 

... I have posted this several times but when I was on staff with one of the Big 5 my custom irons arrived egregiously out of spec. +2 or -2 is the tolerance and that meant two irons were the exact same loft as my 8 was 2* strong and my 7 was 2* weak. This was the early 90's so it is nothing new. I realized I needed to do my own work and bought a Mitchel LL machine and have adjusted all my clubs ever since. 

[sandpounder]

23 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... I have posted this several times but when I was on staff with one of the Big 5 my custom irons arrived egregiously out of spec. +2 or -2 is the tolerance and that meant two irons were the exact same loft as my 8 was 2* strong and my 7 was 2* weak. This was the early 90's so it is nothing new. I realized I needed to do my own work and bought a Mitchel LL machine and have adjusted all my clubs ever since. 

That Mitchel loft/lie machine is 2 grand.  Do you do all your adjustments?  If so, ever snapped a club?

[chisag]

2 hours ago, sandpounder said:

Do you do all your adjustments?  If so, ever snapped a club?

 

 

... Yup do all my own work. I have not snapped an iron head. But I haven't really challenged any non forged/8620/carbon steel irons. I don't even try to bend Pings.