Wondering why I often shank, please see swing

[alanbuchanan]

Context: Started in July, and had a couple lessons.

In the video is an example of my swing on a good day.

I am still working on engaging my hips to initiate my downswing, which hopefully I am doing at least a little, still feels weird though.

The main issue with my game right now (I've played on a course like 4 times) is I will often massively shank even though I feel like I'm doing the exact same swing. Hoping folks can see the issues with my swing that might be associated with this. Thanks.

Link: 

 

[Pyroh]

if you pause at your impact position, you'll see right knee has driven towards the ball, lack of hip clearance, and head drop. all of this leads to a lack of space for the hands and arms which cause the hands and club head to move further away from the body, thus hosel/heel strikes. try to feel your left side clearing and your right knee driving towards your left knee.

[alanbuchanan]

8 hours ago, Pyroh said:

try to feel your left side clearing

Hi @Pyroh thanks for the feedback, what does 'clearing' mean in this context?

[Righty to Lefty]

Your swing motion looks fine and you are very close to striking the ball as efficiently as possible as I froze your impact and you are striking this shot with pretty good leverage as your trail arm happens to be still be bent which is a good thing and mandatory and that means you are in a pretty good location in relation to the ball: 

From this shoulder plane you are hitting this shot pretty well but you could have the ball a little bit further back along your swing arc, we're talking 1 or 2 golf balls and it would be struck even better and it would take off at that gap in the trees in the background. 

 

For reference This is Tiger from roughly the same shoulder plane line as you at impact:

 

But notice how his ball is to be launching more to the right than yours is.  That is because he is striking the ball at a more optimal location along his swing arc than you are.  This is a model representation of the shot Tiger hit  where the low point of his swing arc is marked on the trash can lid and the pencil represents the club face: 

 

The pencil in your shot would be a hair more forward and that is why I can tell that you are striking that particular shot pretty well but not quite maxed out.  Now then on to your question about shanking the ball.  All a shank is is a conflict between where you think you should be sending the momentum of your swing and where it should actually be sent.  You are most likely trying to swing along your intended target line when you should be sending the momentum of your swing to the right of it. 

 

I have to get mathematical for a moment so bear with me for a moment. This is a more detailed model of that same trash can lid but with more than one force vector denoted and Tiger's shot is the vector just to the left of the one marked "A" and your shot would be just barely ahead of that but not pictured: 

Sure this is a model representation of a planet revolving around the Sun but if you tilt it it will represent the swing and the circle on the trash can lid. Mainly focus on the top right quadrant  and if you tilt the plane to the same angle as the trash can lid you can see where the force of the swing is being sent out to the right of the target line and that is important to notice. So that means to properly lever a ball and not shank it you are actually sending the momentum of the swing to the right of the intended target line, depending on the point along your swing when you begin to apply force to the shaft with the trail arm, while trusting that the ball will be in the proper location along your swing arc that it will be struck as the face is squaring to your intended target line. A shank is literally directing the momentum of your swing to the wrong place.  I'm trying to water this one down for now but I feel it is important to understand what a literally is and I suspect you will have more questions so please to hesitate to ask and I will further clarify. R to L

 

 

 

[alanbuchanan]

Hey @Righty to Lefty Thanks so much for taking your time to explain that. I went and watched that Tiger Woods Practice Swing video on YT, really interesting to learn about that. So this is gonna be a dumb question but when you say 'further back along the swing arc', you're saying the ball should be moved slightly closer towards my right foot (back in the stance), correct?

With regard to flight path I had a feeling the ball was going toward the left because of my clubface being too closed at impact, which might be linked to what you were explaining, because of the clubface being more open at impact if the ball is further back in the stance.

I managed to record myself catching the ball thin while out on the course, this is a common occurrence for me. I'm kind of guessing, but from what I can see, I'm not engaging my hips enough, and I'm actually using my arms to direct the swing path. I also think I might be standing slightly too far away from the ball. When I freeze-frame at impact, I can see I'm digging the ball into the ground from catching it thin.

Do you agree with any of that, or do you see something else? Here's the link: 

 

[Righty to Lefty]

8 hours ago, alanbuchanan said:

Hey @Righty to Lefty Thanks so much for taking your time to explain that. I went and watched that Tiger Woods Practice Swing video on YT, really interesting to learn about that. So this is gonna be a dumb question but when you say 'further back along the swing arc', you're saying the ball should be moved slightly closer towards my right foot (back in the stance), correct?

With regard to flight path I had a feeling the ball was going toward the left because of my clubface being too closed at impact, which might be linked to what you were explaining, because of the clubface being more open at impact if the ball is further back in the stance.

I managed to record myself catching the ball thin while out on the course, this is a common occurrence for me. I'm kind of guessing, but from what I can see, I'm not engaging my hips enough, and I'm actually using my arms to direct the swing path. I also think I might be standing slightly too far away from the ball. When I freeze-frame at impact, I can see I'm digging the ball into the ground from catching it thin.

Do you agree with any of that, or do you see something else? Here's the link: 

So the first thing is there are no dumb questions in the pursuit of knowledge because you are trying to gain clarity and so you need as much detail as possible so that you can begin to understand the bigger picture.  Now then on to your questions and I will try to be as concise as possible but often times things will get quite detailed because if I gloss over something that you need to know like it is common knowledge, your progress will be slowed until you eventually figure it out the missing information so that is why I am often very detailed in my responses.  

 

There are two ways to move around the ball and they are very important to know the difference between. During this explanation I want you to keep in mind circle on the trash lid model diagram and the planets revolving around the Sun diagram because those diagrams are what I am speaking in reference to. Moving laterally in relation to the ball will change its location along your swing arc. So you would in essence be doing what the teacher in the D Plane video was doing when he took the pencil and moved it to a different location.  You will have to make sure that you also make some fine adjustments in relation to distance to the ball to make sure the that the ball is still on your swing arc so that it will be struck. This is what you have to do in order to find strike so any ball that you didn't strike well means that it was at the wrong location along your swing arc so you have to find the location where the proper strike resides. So lateral movement in relation to the ball will change the location of the ball on your swing arc to a different vector using this diagram: 

 

 

In the  diagram below the pencil is pointing at one vector and you just have to figure out which one you need to use for your physical build and note it's location (the ball may look like it is off your back foot or your front foot etc. but what truly matters is the purity of the strike regardless of if the shot is on your target line or not because that is not relevant at this point and I will explain further):

 

Once you have found strike you will move onto the second way that you will move around the ball, which is to move in a semi circle around a fixed point.  What this does is take your levered strike  and aim it at different targets while not changing the shot's trajectory and will go from this: 

 

To this: 

 

The lateral movement moves the ball to a different location on the swing arc, and the semicircle movement is used to aim a levered strike along a given target line once you have found strike.  EVERY ball that you ever hit will be telling your the story of how well you blended these two factors so the thin shot that you hit means that your low point of your swing arc is in the wrong location in relation to the ball, likely too close to the ball, because you can thin a ball by having it located too far back on your arc or too far forward but since your shots off the ground were following your shoulder line, your thin shots are likely coming from the ball being too far forward on your arc or slightly too far away from you in relation to distance to the ball.  Conversely striking the ball fat means that the ball is too far back along your arc, once again not likely your problem, or it is slightly too close to you. 

 

Do not worry about your swing motion at this stage because that will create too many variables and that is not what we want.  I want you to work your swing motion around the ball until you find a levered strike much like a child would do where they will swing and miss until they find the location where they hit the ball, then they instinctively go back to that spot trying to repeat the desired result. A swing robot does not compromise it's swing motion, the engineer will adjust it's location in relation to the ball until it produces the desired result.  You just have to develop a reference for where your low point is being set on every shot that you ever hit.  Once your are in the correct location in relation to the ball you will be surprised how many of your "swing flaws" will fix themselves in time because your body is currently reacting to you asking it to strike a golf ball while not being in the correct location to do it as efficiently as possible so it will do come crazy things to try and accomplish what you are asking of it! 

 

This is a video that I made for a buddy a few years back about setting the low point of your swing arc that should help you out on the process: 

 

When you film yourself the most useful angle is directly down the line as I can't tell where your shot should be traveling if you film it at face on or at an angle but keep your questions coming and I will be glad to clarify further. R to L

[Righty to Lefty]

22 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Your swing motion looks fine and you are very close to striking the ball as efficiently as possible as I froze your impact and you are striking this shot with pretty good leverage as your trail arm happens to be still be bent which is a good thing and mandatory and that means you are in a pretty good location in relation to the ball: 

From this shoulder plane you are hitting this shot pretty well but you could have the ball a little bit further back along your swing arc, we're talking 1 or 2 golf balls and it would be struck even better and it would take off at that gap in the trees in the background. 

 

For reference This is Tiger from roughly the same shoulder plane line as you at impact:

 

But notice how his ball is to be launching more to the right than yours is.  That is because he is striking the ball at a more optimal location along his swing arc than you are.  This is a model representation of the shot Tiger hit  where the low point of his swing arc is marked on the trash can lid and the pencil represents the club face: 

 

The pencil in your shot would be a hair more forward and that is why I can tell that you are striking that particular shot pretty well but not quite maxed out.  Now then on to your question about shanking the ball.  All a shank is is a conflict between where you think you should be sending the momentum of your swing and where it should actually be sent.  You are most likely trying to swing along your intended target line when you should be sending the momentum of your swing to the right of it. 

 

I have to get mathematical for a moment so bear with me for a moment. This is a more detailed model of that same trash can lid but with more than one force vector denoted and Tiger's shot is the vector just to the left of the one marked "A" and your shot would be just barely ahead of that but not pictured: 

Sure this is a model representation of a planet revolving around the Sun but if you tilt it it will represent the swing and the circle on the trash can lid. Mainly focus on the top right quadrant  and if you tilt the plane to the same angle as the trash can lid you can see where the force of the swing is being sent out to the right of the target line and that is important to notice. So that means to properly lever a ball and not shank it you are actually sending the momentum of the swing to the right of the intended target line, depending on the point along your swing when you begin to apply force to the shaft with the trail arm, while trusting that the ball will be in the proper location along your swing arc that it will be struck as the face is squaring to your intended target line. A shank is literally directing the momentum of your swing to the wrong place.  I'm trying to water this one down for now but I feel it is important to understand what a literally is and I suspect you will have more questions so please to hesitate to ask and I will further clarify. R to L

 

 

 

@joostinTake a look at his impact and you will see that this is a trend that most golfers are striking the ball at the wrong location along their swing arc. His impacts are almost a carbon copy of yours. 

[Gabino]

Put in a video of a shank lol. Easier to diagnose it then. Usually when I shank it’s because I’ve leaned too much in towards the ball and tried to “hit” the ball instead of swinging around my pivot 

[BraxtonFullerton]

Just want to point out what I see from the videos you've posted:

1. Decent contact, OK swing, little too much kicking your back-leg in: 

 

 

2. You practically whiff on the ball...

 

You've broken your front arm and lose control of your low point. You've also stood up in the swing compared to where you were at setup:

 

 

Again, adjusting your low point in the swing, resulting in the thins.

 

Fix your setup; you're much too hunched over; even on your good result video:

 

 

Here's Jordan for comparison: 

 

 

Here's JT: 

 

 

Look how upright their backs are and how hunched over you are at the top. Stand taller; it's easier to maintain your angles throughout the swing.

[Pepperturbo]

No matter how much advice you get, let me ease your mind about that dirty word "sh**k."  I currently play to a 3-5, and Sunday hit a mind numbing brute of "sh**k with 620 MB 9i.  No matter how good we get that dirty word sneaks into play when least expected.  LOL

[alanbuchanan]

Thanks for your feedback @BraxtonFullerton – I tried to work on posture at the range this evening. This is about as straight as I can get my back. Would you say this is any overall improvement or no different? 

 

 

[MK7Golf21]

not a bad swing for someone who just started. You will get more responses from the instruction forum instead of here. Take an online lesson on skillest app for a better improvement plan, will be worth it in the beginning of learning.