I'm calling it now: the number of graphite/composite iron shafts played on the men's tour doubles next year

[jomatty]

8 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... It would be interesting. I had 2 back surgeries but elbow tendonitis is what caused me to change in the late 90's. I have played a myriad of graphite iron shafts and could not imagine going back to steel. I received some 22' Forged Tecs to review that came with Modus 105's so I played them a couple of weeks. Really disliked the feel and my elbow started hurting when I have had no problems in over 20 years so I re-shafted with Steelfibers and the pain disappeared and the feel I love came right back. ymmv ...

That’s funny.  I bought a set of Mizuno 223’s that came with modus 105’s.  I was feeling pretty good at the time and played them for a week or so before I got around to pulling the shafts and putting graphite in them.  Loved the feel but after playing a few days in a row my left elbow started to hurt.  It has been bothering me ever since and reminded me why I love graphite so much.

[Red4282]

Count me as a believer, but it will be a slow drip, then an explosion. It will be led by a youth movement. More younger guys like ancer. All the veteran players have years and year with the same stuff, and are pretty stubborn to change.

[Joselo]

anyone seen the recent video of fred couples trying a  new 'old' 3 wood?

seems like its difficult if not impossible for pro's to switch to different shafts on woods or irons sometimes

but what do i know

 

[Obee]

On 11/2/2022 at 7:56 PM, Canyonaro said:

 

Despite all the OEM nonsense about "Tour acceptance", PGA Tour players are reluctant to change to the point of absurdity. Tiger about sums it up:

 

“I’ve never used anything else (his iron shafts are Dynamic Gold X100). They work just fine, and I’m comfortable with them.”

 

Most of them still use (cheap garbage imo) tour velvet grips too. Strange group of humans. 

Interesting. What grips do you use. I will never switch from Golf Pride Tour Wrap.

 

[North Butte]

7 minutes ago, Obee said:

Interesting. What grips do you use. I will never switch from Golf Pride Tour Wrap.

 

Which version of Tour Wrap do you use? The shiny 2G kind or do you have a stash of the old-school ones I learned to play golf with in the early 90's? 

[chisag]

On 11/2/2022 at 7:56 PM, Canyonaro said:

Despite all the OEM nonsense about "Tour acceptance", PGA Tour players are reluctant to change to the point of absurdity.

 

 

... When Aldila was fitting David Toms for new shafts he would not consider changing the Bi Matrix in his 5 wood because he made a HIO using it during the '21 PGA Championship. Shafts that tested better were ignored and he said he didn't care how much better they fit, he wasn't changing. 

[Chunkitgood]

IIRC graphite shafts became the norm because they are lighter, allowing faster swing (partly because lighter in effect meant longer shafts).  That is, they were adopted because they were different (arguably better) from steel shafts.

 

It seems we are now told pros should adopt graphite iron shafts because they can at great expense be engineered to be exactly the same as iron shafts.

 

Which seems sort of pointless.

 

 

[Red4282]

7 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

IIRC graphite shafts became the norm because they are lighter, allowing faster swing (partly because lighter in effect meant longer shafts).  That is, they were adopted because they were different (arguably better) from steel shafts.

 

It seems we are now told pros should adopt graphite iron shafts because they can at great expense be engineered to be exactly the same as iron shafts.

 

Which seems sort of pointless.

 

 

They are designed to be exactly like steel…. To a degree. They offer the ability to dampen vibrations, have torque values at or below steel while also having the ability to be lighter at the same time. They can also make dozens  of small profile changes through different bias and materials in the different sections. There is no benefit to steel other than cost.

[jb640042]

I can't see it personally. Good arguments for and against. But playing what they are familiar with especially in their irons/scoring clubs would seem to sway the argument in one particular direction. I wish I was good enough to never want to tinker with my 🤣 

[chisag]

... Fwiw, the very first graphite iron shafts I played were designed for VJ Singh when he was #1 in the world. Aldila Tour NV at 130gms and 1.5* of torque. He was playing DGX and needed something to dampen vibrations for some injuries. Stouter and heavier than most any steel shaft on the market today. Lighter so they can be made longer for increased speed isn't a goal for most of todays graphite iron shafts designed for better players. I have played all of these and for me, better than any steel shafts I have played with the Steelfibers being the most accurate. By far the #1 graphite iron shaft on the LPGA. 

[m d g]

On 11/2/2022 at 6:02 PM, Valtiel said:

Look at Tiger and the impact he had on the interlocking grip as a parallel example.

I could be wrong (just ask my wife) but I think Nicklaus was using the interlocking grip a bit before Tiger.

 

Tour players in the '90s and '00s might have heard of him : )

[rkelso184]

Tigers son plays graphite shafts! Wonder if he will change into steel? If he plays graphite and makes an impact that will be the start of the new era IMO

[Obee]

17 hours ago, North Butte said:

Which version of Tour Wrap do you use? The shiny 2G kind or do you have a stash of the old-school ones I learned to play golf with in the early 90's? 

2G

[TBD203]

I’m strongly considering trying out the LA golf L series in 5-pw

[Zitlow]

Has anyone ever tried titanium shafts? 

[chisag]

3 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

Has anyone ever tried titanium shafts? 

 

 

... I played them when I was on staff with Wilson in all my clubs. Firestick Ti iron shaft were very stiff to flex but were excellent at dampening vibration. I think todays graphite iron shafts are much better. 

[mat562]

On 11/7/2022 at 1:27 AM, Zitlow said:

Has anyone ever tried titanium shafts? 

 

I tried them back in the early 90s in some Eye 2s, played a couple of titanium-shafted woods for a year or two around the same time, and a few years ago shafted up a set of irons with a set of Ti shafts as an experiment.

 

They worked really well for me in woods, and I played a couple of titanium-shafted drivers from the late 80s to the mid 90s, as well as a Tour Silver-shafted TM 3-wood with some success, but they never really worked for me in irons. I struggled to get consistent carry distances with them versus the DG X100s I played at the time, and never really got used to the lighter weight.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by mat562

[mat562]

They're not the easiest things to find these days, unless, like I did, you drop on a new, untouched set that are gathering dust on a shelf.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by mat562

[PALS-SSA]

The Sandvik Ti shafts developed a "memory" over time.  They would start to bow.  

[physasst]

I just got fitted into MMT 80's with PXG 0311T heads. I tend to have a high LA, but my spin and DA are really good. Loved how they felt. I need a lower launch. 

 

M

[jjr]

On 11/5/2022 at 1:31 PM, Obee said:

Interesting. What grips do you use. I will never switch from Golf Pride Tour Wrap.

 

Just had 790's and MG3's buillt with MMT's and CP2's added a 5 hybrid too, perfect for my senior tour! 

Had the CP2's on my woods and loved them.

LOL

[Thayneil]

On 11/3/2022 at 8:03 PM, smashdn said:

Meanwhile Langer has been using the same Hogan Apex shafts in no telling how many different iron heads over the years.

not in is latest what's in the bag?

I saw  Dynamic  Gold s400s  there

 

 

[gators78]

A few years ago the rumor was the MMTs were going to takeoff on Tour, that didn’t exactly pan out. 

 

I still think it’s an uphill climb for the trend really taking off. No argument that the technology for graphite shafts has gotten a lot better, but the technology for steel shafts has also gotten better. There are a ton of options available for players, and you don’t need to overload the tech when you’re swinging 80-90 MPH. On the retail side it’s tough to spend $120 for an LA Golf shaft which would be ~2-3x the price of KBS/TT/PX/Modus, with each company offering 3+ viable options. 

[Pepperturbo]

On 11/2/2022 at 3:17 PM, bladehunter said:

It’s coming.  They’re too good not to try.  The consistency is unreal . And for wedge shafts , easier spin control.  Which for  most ams isn’t what you want. But for high spin generating players , it’s a cheat code. 

Having played MMT 125s and 125TX shafts in my 620 MBs & CB sets, I agree.  Today, composite shafts are a huge improvement over steel (I played PX 6.0 for 15++ years.)  But, I agree with someone else that said, Pros don't change shafts easily.  Composite MMT make it easy to feel and control ball spin and trajectory, yet no damage to the body.

 

I believe MMT composite shafts are THE BEST I've played.  The big hump is retail pricing is high.  I paid $80 per shaft for one set, 2i-LW.  That's a limited market, no matter how much is drank the night before. LOL

Edited November 14, 2022 by Pepperturbo

[Chunkitgood]

Do professional golfers in general want to dampen vibration?

 

Where does this vibration come from?  What does it even mean in terms of human experience?

 

I suppose if you could prove to pros that vibration that can be dampened contributes to injury, they would jump on anti-vibration tech…or maybe not.
 

I mean, I know energy goes up the shaft but a golf club isn’t a jackhammer.

[Red4282]

3 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

Do professional golfers in general want to dampen vibration?

 

Where does this vibration come from?  What does it even mean in terms of human experience?

 

I suppose if you could prove to pros that vibration that can be dampened contributes to injury, they would jump on anti-vibration tech…or maybe not.
 

I mean, I know energy goes up the shaft but a golf club isn’t a jackhammer.

Probably not super high on their list. Its really just an added bonus, especially for those of us who play very firm conditions and hit off mats. You say its not a jackhammer but i got some hardpan out back you should try hitting a bucket off of. There is nothing a steel shaft offers that a graphite cant do (other than being cheaper). On the flip side, there are things that a graphite can do that a steel cant do. 

[SollyinGA]

On 11/3/2022 at 1:58 PM, Fairways_and_Greens said:

I doubt it. I have MMTs, installed them twice when I have joint pain, and have gone back to steel as many times. They felt amazing, but my launch dropped 2 degrees and they were more prone to long left pulls compared to Modus 120TX. 
 

Rickie and Kisner were in MMTs and are both back in steel. The LA L series look super interesting but are back weighted. 
 

DJ had a hand in developing the L series and isn’t playing them. He’s not playing the LA driver shaft anymore anyways. 

I had the same results with MMTs. I tried multiple flexes and weights. I vastly prefer steel (Modus Tour 115 Xflex) 

[Hacker76]

Only 10% of LPGA play graphite so I find it highly unlikely there will be some huge graphite adoption on either tour. 

Companies like Nippon are making steel feel more like graphite while retaining steel characteristics. This may be a more popular direction as the majority of LPGA play Nippon 950 GH. 

[Canyonaro]

On 11/3/2022 at 9:14 AM, leezer99 said:

 

Why do you say the Tour Velvet is garbage? 

 

Personally I say that because they tear up my hands. They're also the most plain vanilla thin strip of rubber you can put on a club. I get why some players like them (feel/closest thing to no grip at all) but I'll take MCC+4 every day of the week. 

[Pepperturbo]

On 11/14/2022 at 3:43 PM, Chunkitgood said:

Do professional golfers in general want to dampen vibration?

 

Where does this vibration come from?  What does it even mean in terms of human experience?

 

I suppose if you could prove to pros that vibration that can be dampened contributes to injury, they would jump on anti-vibration tech…or maybe not.
 

I mean, I know energy goes up the shaft but a golf club isn’t a jackhammer.

No, reason better golfers chose steel shafts and don't make dramatic changes.  Switching to composite is dramatic, but due to composite technology today, plausible.  I never thought I'd switch.  But my first introduction was Steelfiber which made it easier to switch.  Vibration was nonexistent which meant less wear and tear on the body for those of us that play a lot of golf.  When I switched to MMT 125, still less wear and tear on the body, but the tip section of MMT 125 and 105 and Tensei shafts were designed to talk to my hands, without the same effects as steel.  I played X100, Rifle 6.5 and PX 6.0 for most of my earlier golf.  Only switched to composite about five years back.

 

For the most part, it's a waste to try and convince tour guys to switch to composite.  However, younger guys coming up are more susceptible to change than older ones.

 

Vibration comes from how much of the club head COG is used to strike the ball.  My goal is to hit the ball using all the sweet spot of my 620 MBs, that results in pure muted vibration.  When I fractionally miss the sweet spot, blade vibration is more pronounced.  However, from vibration I can conclude what happened to the ball at impact and where it's going, was it solid strike or off, maybe high or low on the face, might be towards the heel or toe.  Forged heads and ball composition help too.  I am sure some of the osteoarthritis I cope with today is tied to banging balls.

 

"The Aluminum Vapor Weave or Fibers coated with aluminum vapor are used to produce a weave that is thinner and tighter than previous materials.  For the TENSEI™ AV AM(2) Irons Series the AV Weave is applied to the mid-section of the shaft, leading to both increased stability and enhanced clubhead feel.

“Feel is essential to great iron play, and these shafts are engineered to provide the feedback and responsiveness that a scoring touch requires.”  That doesn't come with standard graphite.

No, not a jackhammer, but impact is NOT the issue, as much as considering how many balls a tour guy hits per week, compared to what you hit.  I used to hit 1100-1400 balls per week during practice, (72k+ a year or 436k+ over 6yrs) and play 18 holes 2-3 times a week; all of which can bring consequences later in life.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Pepperturbo