Dan Grieve - 3 releases

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

Just put this on my christmas list! anyone had a read and any thoughts on it?

[Ri_Redneck]

I haven't read this one, but I have read Your Short Game Solution: Mastering the Finesse Game from 120 Yards and In by James Sieckmann, which I highly recommend. It also covers sand technique.

 

BT

[indianagolf2]

Sieckmann book has been out for years. I think his guru status is no more 

[sjn1]

Sieckmann book is good for pitching , chipping , but chapter on bunkers is  poorly written or edited , and the advice given is actually contradictory : one paragraph says 'there is little or no weight shift  in bunker shots' ,and a few paragraphs later on faults and cures it says 'you may have this fault because of insufficient weight shift.'

Edited February 19, 2023 by sjn1
spelling

[scooterhd2]

4 hours ago, sjn1 said:

Sieckmann book is good for pitcking , chipping , but chapter on bunkers is  poorly written or edited , and the advice given is actually contradictory : one paragraph says 'there is little or no weight shift  in bunker shots' ,and a few paragraphs later on faults and cures it says 'you may have this fault because of insufficient weight shift.'

 

Seems about par for the course for normal instruction.

[harveythomas]

The Sieckman book didn’t talk enough about keeping your height through the shot and in fact coming up as you go through it.  It’s not bad otherwise.  So until I fixed that fault in my play it didn’t help me at all.  

 

I find the Daniel Grieve book teaches many similar things but is easier to use as it’s more simply written and I like it although haven’t yet found it’s changed my game much since I already made changes this Summer.  
 

He does teach some things differently eg he talks about distance wedges as a variation on one of his finesse swing shots whereas Sieckman talks about them as a modified version of a full power swing shot.  
 

Both are a mile ahead of the old Pelz short game bible which is old fashioned in what it teaches and which I found made my game worse when I originally read it.  Also the old Stan Utley books didn’t help me either.
 

I had a pro teach me how to chip with the bounce this year which has been a revelation so now my finesse wedges are a big strength in my game rather than a terrible weakness and I up and down close to 50 percent now which has knocked 3-4 shots off my handicap.  The pro gave me a fairly handsy method so I feel it’s like tossing a piece of paper under arm from a side on stance.  My son also noticed that I was losing height through the shot and when I fixed that the method really worked.   I can even hit beautiful high spinners off hard pan now that go close to the hole whereas before unless I was putting it I’d hit mostly fats and thins from that sort of lie.  

I literally had two 10 minute slots on it with the pro and then my son spotting my fault in execution on the course and now I chip better than a lot of good category 1 golfers. Once you get the hang of it,  the chipping game becomes great fun and what these guys teach is much more the way to go.  

 

Either Sieckman or Grieve books then work as a useful reference for me so that I know what I’m supposed to be doing to keep me on track.   I wouldn’t buy both though and I’d say Grieve slightly edges Sieckman for ease of use but there’s not much in it.  If you can find a pro that teaches this method as well then you can’t go wrong but in my experience most teaching professionals in the U.K. are terrible at teaching finesse wedge play.  

[sjn1]

Just read the book  . As mentioned  above, Grieve advocates 40-90 yard shots as an extension of short game , and played like pitch shots rather than partial full shots and for for me the approach to these is   an interesting one. He advocates changing  stance width and how far you grip down on the club to vary the length of the shot .He says varying stance width and gripping down on the club will act as a natural governor of swing length. 

Grieve says  in his experience  few people can make the 'clock system'   work  successfully (and ditch the lob wedge , most amateurs  are not good enough to use it)  .

I have not  tried this approach , but have played a few times  with a member of my club who won multiple  national and regional senior titles in the past and who plays like this , often playing a 80/90 yard shots as a long  chip with a 8 or 9 iron  , and he puts the ball close nearly every time.

[Bob M]

On 2/19/2023 at 6:19 AM, sjn1 said:

Just read the book  . As mentioned  above, Grieve advocates 40-90 yard shots as an extension of short game , and played like pitch shots rather than partial full shots and for for me the approach to these is   an interesting one. He advocates changing  stance width and how far you grip down on the club to vary the length of the shot .He says varying stance width and gripping down on the club will act as a natural governor of swing length. 

Grieve says  in his experience  few people can make the 'clock system'   work  successfully (and ditch the lob wedge , most amateurs  are not good enough to use it)  .

I have not  tried this approach , but have played a few times  with a member of my club who won multiple  national and regional senior titles in the past and who plays like this , often playing a 80/90 yard shots as a long  chip with a 8 or 9 iron  , and he puts the ball close nearly every time.

 

I recently finished 3 Releases as well and have gone through Sieckmann's book a few times. As others have mentioned above, I find the way Grieve explains things much more user friendly, and applicable to my game, than Sieckmann's approach.

 

Regarding the "finesse" game (40 yards and in) I really like his concept of breaking down these shots into chip and run, soft landing and flop shots. In 2022 I suffered from "Lob Wedge Addiction" using my 58* wedge 43% of the time (average proximity and up/down 20' and 24%, respectively) whereas it turned out that I was much more effective with a chipper, putter or hybrid in terms of proximity and up/down %. Accordingly, my finesse game for 2023 will be primarily reliant on the chip and run (with various irons as I no longer carry the chipper) and secondarily the soft-landing shot. At this point, I do not plan to spend much time on the flop shot and when I do, it will be using my SW before my LW. As @sjn1 notes, Grieve clearly thinks that the LW is over-used by Ams and states in the book that it should come with the warning "for emergency use only"

 

I REALLY like Grieve's teaching that 40 to 90 yard shots (distance or approach wedges) should be viewed as an extension of the short game, rather than as being shorter full shots. I have tried Grieve's different address positions (A-1, A-2 and A-3) to some extent in my yard with AlmostGOLF balls and for me it is much more effective than trying to simulate positions on a clock face. I tried the shortest version (which Grieve calls A-1) last week during a 9-hole round for a short pitch with my 54* wedge and nearly holed the shot. I love the idea that the "winner of multiple national and regional senior titles" mentioned by @sjn1 often plays 80/90 yard shots with an 8-iron using this sort of approach and plan to add that (and perhaps the 7-iron too) to my own game. 

 

From my 2022 Shot Scope data, I learned that my short game was an area in which I could improve a lot. Accordingly, I read or re-read several short game books this winter and for me the material covered in 3-Releases describes a system which is the best fit for my game of all of them. 

[596]

I didn't need to read any books to figure out that any shot out to 110 yards is basically a pitch shot with as much as a 7 iron.  No need to get fancy with partial wedges and/or positions.  Just hit a basic 90 yard "pitch" with an 8 or 9 iron. Much more consistent and much more accurate. 

[MattC555]

Recently watched Dan give Rick Shiels a much needed lesson.  Came away impressed.  Read the book, and recommend it.  He has an excellent way of simplifying chipping and use of wedge bounce. 

[AB1981]

I have read several of the books mentioned and watched a lot of the newer gurus on different platforms and for me Dan's book and content has clicked much better than from any of the others.  Honestly haven't even finished the whole book yet but have spent several weeks with the basics of the first couple releases and seeing some light at the end of the tunnel finally.  I have been in the wildnerness for several years, so to speak, with my short game when it used to be the strongest part of my game.  My trouble actually started after reading Utley's book out of boredom, wasn't even having any trouble at the time, which was a major mistake.  Not necessarily a reflection on Utley's teaching or technique, I just got in bad shape blending his ideas with my old motion around the greens.  As a couple others mentioned losing height/adding right tilt is death with this general strain of pitching technique.  

 

And as others have mentioned also, for me the 30-90 yard method is pure gold.  I knew exactly what he meant about the governor as soon as I read it, don't know why I never came to that conclusion on my own in 35 years playing this silly game.

[Nels55]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:45 AM, MattC555 said:

Recently watched Dan give Rick Shiels a much needed lesson.  Came away impressed.  Read the book, and recommend it.  He has an excellent way of simplifying chipping and use of wedge bounce. 

Here is the Dan Greaves / Rick Shiels lesson video for anyone interested.  Rick says that the lesson changed his life.  Looks a lot to me like the flop shot that Phil Rogers taught Jack Nicklaus many years ago.  I learned that shot from the Golf Digest article and I could actually do it fairly well back then.  I am going to give this a try and start using different clubs for short game shots as opposed to always using my 60 degree.

 

 

[baudi]

 

at ±10.20

Rick S.: over time the technique around the short game has gone much more.. 

Dan G : <interrupting> Totally agree. 🤡

'Wedge designs and course conditions improved over the last 15 years.' Concludes: must modernize your wedge game. 😂

 

It's not bad instruction at all btw.  

 

 

 

[Zitlow]

12 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Here is the Dan Greaves / Rick Shiels lesson video for anyone interested.  Rick says that the lesson changed his life.  Looks a lot to me like the flop shot that Phil Rogers taught Jack Nicklaus many years ago.  I learned that shot from the Golf Digest article and I could actually do it fairly well back then.  I am going to give this a try and start using different clubs for short game shots as opposed to always using my 60 degree.

 

 

I saw the video a couple weeks ago and bought the book The three releases plugged some leaks in my short game. 

[infinii]

Does anyone know if I'd miss out on anything if I bought this on Kindle format?

[MattC555]

2 hours ago, infinii said:

Does anyone know if I'd miss out on anything if I bought this on Kindle format?

I bought the kindle addition.  I think the only thing different is the quality of the photos.  Kindle addition worked well enough for me. 

[ste1010]

On 8/8/2023 at 12:21 PM, infinii said:

Does anyone know if I'd miss out on anything if I bought this on Kindle format?

Kindle edition on ipad app is good, photos as good as the printed book. Kindle device not so good. If you use the Kindle app on an ipad you will be losing nothing.

[Hawkeye77]

On 8/8/2023 at 6:21 AM, infinii said:

Does anyone know if I'd miss out on anything if I bought this on Kindle format?

Holding the book in your hand.

[Luckydutch]

One thing I didn’t really get about his book was where he talks about how the lob wedge should only be for emergencies.

 

Once I’d started to implement his techniques and use the bounce properly, the lob wedge became no harder to use than any other wedge.

 

Also, perhaps it depends on the courses you play somewhat but I find that more often than not, I appreciate having that extra loft.

 

Let’s say I need to play on average 10 short game shots per round. Maybe 2 are bunkers and of the remaining 8, maybe only 1 will be from a fairway or green fringe where I can take something like a gap wedge and play a release 1.

 

The courses I play at tend to have small greens, heavily guarded and never more of 3ft of fringe before you’re into the thick stuff. Bunkers tend to be short left and right so you almost always want to take a club that can carry to the centre of the green meaning your misses are going to tend to be left or right, not short.

 

The upshot is that at least 7 out of 10 short game shots I need to make are out of thick rough onto a small, fast green, often over a raised mound or sometimes bunker. In those situations, I almost always want the most loft I can get and a release 2. 
 

Am I missing something? Why should I *not* take the lob wedge there?

[Avid_but_mediocre]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:22 AM, Luckydutch said:

One thing I didn’t really get about his book was where he talks about how the lob wedge should only be for emergencies.

 

Once I’d started to implement his techniques and use the bounce properly, the lob wedge became no harder to use than any other wedge.

 

Also, perhaps it depends on the courses you play somewhat but I find that more often than not, I appreciate having that extra loft.

 

Let’s say I need to play on average 10 short game shots per round. Maybe 2 are bunkers and of the remaining 8, maybe only 1 will be from a fairway or green fringe where I can take something like a gap wedge and play a release 1.

 

The courses I play at tend to have small greens, heavily guarded and never more of 3ft of fringe before you’re into the thick stuff. Bunkers tend to be short left and right so you almost always want to take a club that can carry to the centre of the green meaning your misses are going to tend to be left or right, not short.

 

The upshot is that at least 7 out of 10 short game shots I need to make are out of thick rough onto a small, fast green, often over a raised mound or sometimes bunker. In those situations, I almost always want the most loft I can get and a release 2. 
 

Am I missing something? Why should I *not* take the lob wedge there?

I'm not an expert, but from reading the book and following him for a while on Instagram, I don't think he would have an issue with using loft with what you described. He's very big on "golf iq" and playing the best shot for the situation. 

 

My guess is he's extreme about not using the LW because it is hard for a lot of ams to use and his overall message is that there is a whole universe of shots that should be considered for every situation so we should stop grabbing 60* by default. 

 

I will say, the longer I watch his stuff on social there are a LOT of specialty shots / variations that are not covered in the book (rightly so). I'm not good enough to worry about that, but a bit eye opening.

 

One was how to get out of long sticky rough when short sided. Was posted sometime this summer on Instagram.

[elephant15]

Thanks

joemcsorleypreswickGC for posting this. Learned so much from his videos.

 

Has anyone taken online lessons with him? If so, how is it? 

[nitram]

The section on "Golf IQ" alone is worth the price of the book and taking your time to read it.

[DeboRU2002]

I think the book is fantastic. The video with Rick was great. I watched this one as well and picked some other pointers. Definitely worth watching. 
 

 

[bortass]

@DeboRU2002 I watched that video a while ago and thought it was very good too. Both of those videos really helped solidify some points.

[bhard315]

Anyone else getting good feedback from reading Grieve’s book or following his social media videos? I got his book at the beginning of this year and watched a decent amount of his stuff and it’s already helped me in a couple rounds this year.

[bortass]

I have. I watched a couple more Youtube videos with him last week. One was an overview of the three releases and the other was another lesson with a female golfer. So far, those videos have really helped my understanding. On course is a bit of a mixed bag because I have not practiced much lately, so fell into old habits but the refresher last week helped me a few times this last weekend.

[MattC555]

+2.  His methods work very well for me.  The book is an easy read and an excellent reference. 

[harveythomas]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:22 PM, Luckydutch said:

One thing I didn’t really get about his book was where he talks about how the lob wedge should only be for emergencies.

 

Once I’d started to implement his techniques and use the bounce properly, the lob wedge became no harder to use than any other wedge.

 

Also, perhaps it depends on the courses you play somewhat but I find that more often than not, I appreciate having that extra loft.

 

Let’s say I need to play on average 10 short game shots per round. Maybe 2 are bunkers and of the remaining 8, maybe only 1 will be from a fairway or green fringe where I can take something like a gap wedge and play a release 1.

 

The courses I play at tend to have small greens, heavily guarded and never more of 3ft of fringe before you’re into the thick stuff. Bunkers tend to be short left and right so you almost always want to take a club that can carry to the centre of the green meaning your misses are going to tend to be left or right, not short.

 

The upshot is that at least 7 out of 10 short game shots I need to make are out of thick rough onto a small, fast green, often over a raised mound or sometimes bunker. In those situations, I almost always want the most loft I can get and a release 2. 
 

Am I missing something? Why should I *not* take the lob wedge there?

This is absolutely correct.   One of the courses I play is a tournament course set up where a release 1 shot is rarely needed but release 2 is needed all the time although I find a high one with a 56 degree wedge works great so never needed any more lift in the bag.  
 

Another course I play at and release 1 is much more common as a workable option.  

[badpokerbadgolf]

Has anyone here ever done his online coaching?  I see on his website his rates are pretty affordable given his resume.  Has me tempted but I've never done online lessons so kind of hesitant because of the format. 

[KD1]

On 6/20/2023 at 8:45 PM, Nels55 said:

Here is the Dan Greaves / Rick Shiels lesson video for anyone interested.  Rick says that the lesson changed his life.  Looks a lot to me like the flop shot that Phil Rogers taught Jack Nicklaus many years ago.  I learned that shot from the Golf Digest article and I could actually do it fairly well back then.  I am going to give this a try and start using different clubs for short game shots as opposed to always using my 60 degree.

 

 

 

Thanks for this. I had fun playing around with this at the range today, but I'm not sure if I'm executing closer to release 1 or 3.. lol

 

So I have a few questions:

1) Dan mentions that it's the opposite of everything you want to do in a full swing. So what's the danger of this bleeding over into full swing if we're not careful?

2) Is it not extremely steep? And if so, why is it not a problem?

3) I really feel like it's all noodley wrists and I'm picking at the ball. That about right?

4) I see several similarities between this and Monte's use the bounce 2.0. Where would you say the differ? Dan wants more lower body movement in the backswing is the first thing that comes to my mind.

5) For those of you who said you used to something like this back in the day.. what happened? What problems do you have with this?

Edited January 30 by KD1