Unique Tournament Handicapping Help Needed

[madeinguam81]

Let's start with the event format:

- 4 teams of 10 players, made up of 5 twosomes per team.

- One twosome plays match play against a comparable twosome from another team in mixed format (6 holes each of scramble, best ball, alternate shot).  1 point for each format winner.  1/2 point to each twosome if a format ties.  So 3 points available in each group.

- The team with the most total points wins the prize pool.

 

Because of the unique nature of the event and a huge thanks to some great advice here on GWRX, we will have alternates available in case of a last second absence.  I actually booked an entire foursome to follow our group and while I'll do my best to cover different handicap ranges, I can't guarantee we'll have an alternate that's a perfect fit.

 

As it is now, all matchups are made up of comparable handicaps so everyone is playing straight up.  If an alternate is needed to step in but their handicap isn't close enough for straight up play, how would we handicap the group given the format?

 

Two examples:

10 and 12 handicap vs 11 and 11 handicap.

Alternate is a 6 handicap

 

5 and 7 handicap vs 4 and 9

Alternate is a 15 handicap

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Abh159]

17 minutes ago, madeinguam81 said:

One twosome plays match play against a comparable twosome from another team in mixed format (6 holes each of scramble, best ball, alternate shot). 

 

 

 

The times I've played this sort of format (when handicap strokes were involved) the only time those strokes would be allotted was during the best ball format.

 

Even then it would only happen if one of the holes happened to be a "stroke hole". Basically if someone was to get 3 strokes over 18 holes, but none of the 6 best ball holes were the #1, 2, or 3 handicap on the card then they wouldn't get any strokes at all.

 

In my opinion you can't really allow someone strokes during the alternate shot or scramble since they aren't playing their own ball throughout the hole. 

[madeinguam81]

5 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

The times I've played this sort of format (when handicap strokes were involved) the only time those strokes would be allotted was during the best ball format.

 

Even then it would only happen if one of the holes happened to be a "stroke hole". Basically if someone was to get 3 strokes over 18 holes, but none of the 6 best ball holes were the #1, 2, or 3 handicap on the card then they wouldn't get any strokes at all.

 

In my opinion you can't really allow someone strokes during the alternate shot or scramble since they aren't playing their own ball throughout the hole. 

 

Thank you very much for the response.  Only giving strokes (if any) during the best ball format makes total sense. So in the case of a better alternate comes in, the other players would stroke off the alternate's handicap then?  Also let's say no strokes would be given during the Best Ball because those holes aren't stroke holes, would it be for the better if we moved the Best Ball portion (for just that group) to six holes that does include holes where strokes would be given?  

[Abh159]

1 minute ago, madeinguam81 said:

So in the case of a better alternate comes in, the other players would stroke off the alternate's handicap then? 

 

Also let's say no strokes would be given during the Best Ball because those holes aren't stroke holes, would it be for the better if we moved the Best Ball portion (for just that group) to six holes that does include holes where strokes would be given?  

 

To the first question... That's what I would do just because it would be easier to calculate.

 

To the second question... No, I would just leave it as is. Changing the whole format just for one group seems like it would create more problems than solutions.

 

Both just my opinions of course 😉

[StudentGolfer4]

You can 100% handicap the alternate shot portion of the event. The USGA has handicap allowances for the 2 man scramble and best ball formats too. First you must decide what form of alternate shot you are playing.
 

Foursomes, commonly referred to as alternate shot in the US, requires players to alternate who tees off. One player will take the even numbered holes and one takes the odds. With this format, the person who makes the putt on the previous hole may have to tee off on the next, if it’s their designated hole. 

Pinehurst alternate shot (sometimes referred to as Chapman’s), both players tee off, then both hit their partners second shot, and then select the best situation and alternate from there. 
Greensomes, both players tee off, select the ball they wish to play, and then alternate from there. 
 

The formula for foursomes is 50% of combined team handicap. Greensomes and Pinehurst alternate shot are 60% of the low player handicap and 40% of the high player.

 

For Pinehurst and Greensomes… If team A has a 5 and 7 handicap they are a 5.8. Team B has a 4 and 15 handicap they are an 8.4. Rounded, team A is a 6 handicap and team B is an 8. Be sure to use Course handicaps and not handicap index’s. 
 

The formula for foursomes is self explanatory. 

 

This second part may be up for a bit of debate but given they are only playing 6 holes, 1/3rd of the golf course, I would divide that total team handicap number by 3. This will give you the handicap number for the 6 holes of alternate shot. For the alt shot portion, team A is a 2 handicap and B is a 2.67. Because your event is match play, B will receive a stroke on the lowest handicapped hole during that portion of the event. 

(I play in a member guest format where the overall winner is decided by a 3 hole alternate shot format. Total team handicap is divided by 6 to determine alt shot handicaps. Note, the shootout done this way is stroke play, not match). 

 

I hope it works out where everyone can play straight up. If not, there are definitely ways to handicap the alternate shot portion but it does require a bit of extra work on your end. Btw, if you want to handicap the best ball portion each player should get 90% of their course handicap. For a fourball match play you should play off of the low handicap. Using your group with handicaps 4, 5, 7, and 15 the 4 goes to a 0, and the others become 1, 3, 11. (Again, use course handicaps and not index’s.) 
 

The USGA handicap allowance for 2 man scramble is 15% of the high and 35% of the low. 
 

The link to the USGA handicap allowance page is linked as well. https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/Appendix C Handicap Allowances.htm

Edited November 19, 2022 by StudentGolfer4

[madeinguam81]

On 11/19/2022 at 12:43 AM, StudentGolfer4 said:

You can 100% handicap the alternate shot portion of the event. The USGA has handicap allowances for the 2 man scramble and best ball formats too. First you must decide what form of alternate shot you are playing.
 

Foursomes, commonly referred to as alternate shot in the US, requires players to alternate who tees off. One player will take the even numbered holes and one takes the odds. With this format, the person who makes the putt on the previous hole may have to tee off on the next, if it’s their designated hole. 

Pinehurst alternate shot (sometimes referred to as Chapman’s), both players tee off, then both hit their partners second shot, and then select the best situation and alternate from there. 
Greensomes, both players tee off, select the ball they wish to play, and then alternate from there. 
 

The formula for foursomes is 50% of combined team handicap. Greensomes and Pinehurst alternate shot are 60% of the low player handicap and 40% of the high player.

 

For Pinehurst and Greensomes… If team A has a 5 and 7 handicap they are a 5.8. Team B has a 4 and 15 handicap they are an 8.4. Rounded, team A is a 6 handicap and team B is an 8. Be sure to use Course handicaps and not handicap index’s. 
 

The formula for foursomes is self explanatory. 

 

This second part may be up for a bit of debate but given they are only playing 6 holes, 1/3rd of the golf course, I would divide that total team handicap number by 3. This will give you the handicap number for the 6 holes of alternate shot. For the alt shot portion, team A is a 2 handicap and B is a 2.67. Because your event is match play, B will receive a stroke on the lowest handicapped hole during that portion of the event. 

(I play in a member guest format where the overall winner is decided by a 3 hole alternate shot format. Total team handicap is divided by 6 to determine alt shot handicaps. Note, the shootout done this way is stroke play, not match). 

 

I hope it works out where everyone can play straight up. If not, there are definitely ways to handicap the alternate shot portion but it does require a bit of extra work on your end. Btw, if you want to handicap the best ball portion each player should get 90% of their course handicap. For a fourball match play you should play off of the low handicap. Using your group with handicaps 4, 5, 7, and 15 the 4 goes to a 0, and the others become 1, 3, 11. (Again, use course handicaps and not index’s.) 
 

The USGA handicap allowance for 2 man scramble is 15% of the high and 35% of the low. 
 

The link to the USGA handicap allowance page is linked as well. https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/Appendix C Handicap Allowances.htm

 

Thank you so much for the detailed response. We do traditional alternate shot or "foursomes" so we would use the 50% rule and I agree on taking only a third of that.   
 

In four ball/best ball, even though only 6 holes are being played, would you NOT factor in a third and simply apply strokes based on the hole handicap (if applicable) off the lowest handicap player?  Not that this would happen but for example's sake, let's take your 4, 5, 7, and 15 course handicaps, and the six four ball holes' difficulties are 11,12,13,14,15, and 16 on the scorecard. The only stroke given would be to the 15 course handicap and only on the 11 handicap hole, right? 
 

I'm actually familiar with the two man scramble handicap formula. Our main full field tournament is a two man scramble and we've been using this formula for 14 years now. At first it was a low net winner but we eventually moved it to four flights with four gross winners. I guess technically the formula isn't really necessary anymore since we moved to gross score winners but we still use it to place teams into flights.