Low or zero offset irons

[ReefDonkey]

In my search of a near zero / zero offset iron set for left-handers, particularly ones that aren't blades, I came across these, and I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on them.  I'll post up how they hit when I get them.

 

 

 

Most likely only gonna carry a 5-PW in this model.  I don't know why there aren't more low/zero offset irons even for people that aren't low handicappers.  Not every mid-high handicapper is fighting a slice.  Anyone here have experience with these?

 

 

 

 

 

[phizzy30]

That's because most mid cap golfers are horrible/mediocre ball strikers.  These look like butter knives.  I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this thread.  Hope it works out for you. 

[ReefDonkey]

35 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

That's because most mid cap golfers are horrible/mediocre ball strikers.  These look like butter knives.  I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this thread.  Hope it works out for you. 

I agree with you on most mid-hi cap being below average ball strikers.  But these are actually mid sized.  Not players iron sized.  They look like a players iron, but there's certainly more forgiveness than most players irons.  I guess when I was at my worst in ball striking, I never had a problem slicing, so I just never understood why almost every single iron has offset.  Think about it...  Most all drivers have no offset and they are typically the hardest clubs to control.  If offset was the cure for all the crappy ball strikers (about 95% of golfers) why don't we see a massive market for offset drivers?

 

Just some food for thought.


Hell, I'm a 16, but mostly because of bad course management.  But my crappiest of hits have never resulted in a slice.

Edited November 19, 2022 by ReefDonkey

[EaglesGolf99]

1 hour ago, ReefDonkey said:

I agree with you on most mid-hi cap being below average ball strikers.  But these are actually mid sized.  Not players iron sized.  They look like a players iron, but there's certainly more forgiveness than most players irons.  I guess when I was at my worst in ball striking, I never had a problem slicing, so I just never understood why almost every single iron has offset.  Think about it...  Most all drivers have no offset and they are typically the hardest clubs to control.  If offset was the cure for all the crappy ball strikers (about 95% of golfers) why don't we see a massive market for offset drivers?

 

Just some food for thought.


Hell, I'm a 16, but mostly because of bad course management.  But my crappiest of hits have never resulted in a slice.

Simply just an outstanding statement! 

[phizzy30]

42 minutes ago, ReefDonkey said:

I agree with you on most mid-hi cap being below average ball strikers.  But these are actually mid sized.  Not players iron sized.  They look like a players iron, but there's certainly more forgiveness than most players irons.  I guess when I was at my worst in ball striking, I never had a problem slicing, so I just never understood why almost every single iron has offset.  Think about it...  Most all drivers have no offset and they are typically the hardest clubs to control.  If offset was the cure for all the crappy ball strikers (about 95% of golfers) why don't we see a massive market for offset drivers?

 

Just some food for thought.


Hell, I'm a 16, but mostly because of bad course management.  But my crappiest of hits have never resulted in a slice.

I've read that it's difficult to slice an iron because of the COG and the way they are designed.  I know for myself, I draw my irons 99% of the time.  As for offset, people theorize all the time whether it's useful to fight a slice and/or to help increase launch.  Upon closer inspection, I see that you do have a valid point in these being mid-sized which I apparently missed the first time around when I looked. 

[Kingcat990]

Ordered some CR16 irons and am currently awaiting their arrival. Been waiting for that release for months and months. 

[BagofToast]

5 hours ago, ReefDonkey said:

I agree with you on most mid-hi cap being below average ball strikers.  But these are actually mid sized.  Not players iron sized.  They look like a players iron, but there's certainly more forgiveness than most players irons.  I guess when I was at my worst in ball striking, I never had a problem slicing, so I just never understood why almost every single iron has offset.  Think about it...  Most all drivers have no offset and they are typically the hardest clubs to control.  If offset was the cure for all the crappy ball strikers (about 95% of golfers) why don't we see a massive market for offset drivers?

 

Just some food for thought.


Hell, I'm a 16, but mostly because of bad course management.  But my crappiest of hits have never resulted in a slice.

Someone read the website lol 

 

Been eying the CR-16s. Trying to cut down on the club hoing though  

[DeCuchi]

I just received a 6-pw set of cr-16’s heads. I can post some pics tomorrow. Hit them earlier today, and so far I’m very pleased.

[gbang15]

never understood why companies upheld offset on players irons. It makes us players have nearly two different deliveries from iron to driver. Those look great.. can't wait to hear your feedback

[Christen_The_Sloop]

4 hours ago, gbang15 said:

never understood why companies upheld offset on players irons. It makes us players have nearly two different deliveries from iron to driver. Those look great.. can't wait to hear your feedback

Most people have different deliveries with the driver and with irons. It's slight, but significant. I don't take a divot with my driver. I don't tee up my irons an inch or more off the ground. Offset in irons, from what I understand, is to promote the hands being ahead of the club head through the ball. I have a set of no offset Tommy Armour 986 and they make me more aware that I have to have my hands ahead - other iron sets there's a little help...Most amateurs don't have any idea why they play the clubs they do. Most have no idea what they are doing when they step up to hit the ball. I'm only just learning and I'm what you'd call a decent plater. You could have the finest fitter set them up and they might not make a par on the day. I don't care as long as they play fast.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Christen_The_Sloop

[ReefDonkey]

5 hours ago, DeCuchi said:

I just received a 6-pw set of cr-16’s heads. I can post some pics tomorrow. Hit them earlier today, and so far I’m very pleased.

Please post up and give some details!

[Lasorcier]

I have a set of the 23's coming with X100s.  I did that as an experiment. 

 

I won't say that offset promotes a draw/hook.  I hit plenty of straight shots with my 0311STs.

 

What offset does to me is this.  I have a subconcious habit of initially aligning my club using the hosel and the toe.  If I do that, the club is slightly closed because of the offset.  So. I have to either live with it and aim more left or reset my grip to where I am aiming correctly.   My clubs have white paint on the bottom groove, which helps but still does not cure. Usually I paint a few lines white and I just haven't gotten around to doing that.  I fix it by aiming more left generally.

 

Weirdly, if there is a lot of offset, then I will aim more correctly, simply due to the horribly closed setup that would occur on a hugely offset club.  

 

I wish they would do the 16 model in left hand but the owner said it would never happen.  So I went with the 23.  

[Nessism]

Interesting clubs.  Jeff Sheets knows what he's doing.

 

A little pricy for a simple one piece cast 431 head.  At least they are plated, though.  Although, I'm not sure what eplate is?  Electro plating?  Chrome?  Nickel?

[Pepperturbo]

18 hours ago, ReefDonkey said:

Not every mid-high handicapper is fighting a slice. 

True, but most mid-high cappers slice.  Whether they fight it or accept it and follow the jargon floated on TV about "POWER_FADES" is another topic for a good drunk. 🍹 LOL IMO - offset is a game lifesaver for a most golfers. 

 

I play 620 MBs which have minimal offset, and have a set of 620 CBs, with same specs at MBs.  Though I can hit irons with ZERO offset, that, to my thinking, is as extreme as the offset on some of PINGS irons.  I bet Ping has research saying how many golfers benefit from offset.

 

Back in 2005, I bought a new set of 735 cm blended irons from Titleist with reasonable offset in long irons.  What I didn't know was .150 - .130 offset in 2i - 4i, with deep cavity made working long irons challenging; sold them a year later.  Same thing happened only quicker when I bought TM Rsi TP irons, .320 offset in 2i.  My MacGregor 2i has .100; my 670 MB 2i has .125, even the few CB irons I played had under .130 offset.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Pepperturbo

[Valtiel]

18 hours ago, ReefDonkey said:

Think about it...  Most all drivers have no offset and they are typically the hardest clubs to control.  If offset was the cure for all the crappy ball strikers (about 95% of golfers) why don't we see a massive market for offset drivers?

 

17 hours ago, EaglesGolf99 said:

Simply just an outstanding statement! 

Drivers are the hardest to control because they are the longest and lightest club in the bag and therefore will magnify a number of common swing flaws, offset doesn't really factor into this. Offset in irons is primarily meant to move the overall CG as it relates to the axis of the shaft backwards, which helps elevate the ball by increasing dynamic loft. There is also the psychological benefit for some of it looking "anti-slice", but the CG movement is the main goal here. This isn't really relevant with a driver because it is tee'd up and already has a CG further back from the shaft axis than any iron design could achieve. Therefore it isn't just a bandaid for crappy ball strikers, it's an intentional design decision to help with launch. 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Valtiel

[Kingcat990]

1 hour ago, Nessism said:

Interesting clubs.  Jeff Sheets knows what he's doing.

 

A little pricy for a simple one piece cast 431 head.  At least they are plated, though.  Although, I'm not sure what eplate is?  Electro plating?  Chrome?  Nickel?

 

I would venture to guess it's an electroplate polish, as opposed to the common tumble polish typically used on SS.

[ReefDonkey]

28 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

 

Drivers are the hardest to control because they are the longest and lightest club in the bag and therefore will magnify a number of common swing flaws, offset doesn't really factor into this. Offset in irons is primarily meant to move the overall CG as it relates to the axis of the shaft backwards, which helps elevate the ball by increasing dynamic loft. There is also the psychological benefit for some of it looking "anti-slice", but the CG movement is the main goal here. This isn't really relevant with a driver because it is tee'd up and already has a CG further back from the shaft axis than any iron design could achieve. Therefore it isn't just a bandaid for crappy ball strikers, it's an intentional design decision to help with launch. 

I'm not saying that offset should be abolished from all irons.  I just think that if more offerings were made with no offset there would be folks who'd jump on it.   A no-offset mid sized iron with perimeter weighting (aimed at the mid-capper to high-capper)  offered by one of the big names would probably sell.  I'm just not of the opinion that it only belongs in musclebacks or players cavities.

[chisag]

... Like many things with golf equipment, how you started can have an influence on your choices. I know really good players that prefer offset and some started playing with Eye 2's. I had a set of TE Zero Offset irons and realized I like just a little progressive offset. And real numbers don't always reflect the hosel grind and visual offset in any given set, so the eye test is more important then web specs. The real head scratcher for me is why Callaway has more visual offset in their Players and even their MB scoring irons as these are the last clubs I want to see offset at address. 

[ChristopherMcDonald]

10 minutes ago, chisag said:

... Like many things with golf equipment, how you started can have an influence on your choices. I know really good players that prefer offset and some started playing with Eye 2's. I had a set of TE Zero Offset irons and realized I like just a little progressive offset. And real numbers don't always reflect the hosel grind and visual offset in any given set, so the eye test is more important then web specs. The real head scratcher for me is why Callaway has more visual offset in their Players and even their MB scoring irons as these are the last clubs I want to see offset at address. 

My scratch EZ-1’s are like this. Perfect amount of offset in the 5 iron but gets a bit wonky 8-pw

[PEI_Golfer]

18 hours ago, EaglesGolf99 said:

Simply just an outstanding statement! 

It's actually not...  It's a statement of an uninformed person who could, with a little digging, find out the answer(s)...

 

Simply put, 2 different swings, to perform 2 different end goals, by 2 vastly different designed clubs,  being hit drastically different distances where a few degrees offline is far more noticeable.

Edited November 19, 2022 by PEI_Golfer

[EaglesGolf99]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

 

Drivers are the hardest to control because they are the longest and lightest club in the bag and therefore will magnify a number of common swing flaws, offset doesn't really factor into this. Offset in irons is primarily meant to move the overall CG as it relates to the axis of the shaft backwards, which helps elevate the ball by increasing dynamic loft. There is also the psychological benefit for some of it looking "anti-slice", but the CG movement is the main goal here. This isn't really relevant with a driver because it is tee'd up and already has a CG further back from the shaft axis than any iron design could achieve. Therefore it isn't just a bandaid for crappy ball strikers, it's an intentional design decision to help with launch. 

@ReefDonkey

@Valtiel

Two different takes. Both interesting. Some fresh content, what say you? Thank you, Gents! 

[deejaid]

I had a set of the Arias D-23 irons.   They are a mid size cavity back, very similar in size and shape to my Titleist 620CB’s.   Sole is medium width with some nice leading edge relief.  We’re actually longer than my 620 CB’s with the same Project X 6.0’s in them.

 

The only problem I had was they were impossible to bend.  I’ve never had the trouble bending a club like I did with these.  Couldn’t get them to move nearly at all and I play my irons pretty upright.

 

On the Arias website they recommend sending them in for loft/lie adjustment, I just moved on instead.

[PEI_Golfer]

1 hour ago, ReefDonkey said:

I'm not saying that offset should be abolished from all irons.  I just think that if more offerings were made with no offset there would be folks who'd jump on it.   A no-offset mid sized iron with perimeter weighting (aimed at the mid-capper to high-capper)  offered by one of the big names would probably sell.  I'm just not of the opinion that it only belongs in musclebacks or players cavities.

The OEM's LOVE money, some more than others and will gladly sell their souls for the next big thing. 

 

If they thought they would make money off of this venture, they surely would.

 

Wasn't single length irons going to be the last next big thing?

[ReefDonkey]

36 minutes ago, deejaid said:

I had a set of the Arias D-23 irons.   They are a mid size cavity back, very similar in size and shape to my Titleist 620CB’s.   Sole is medium width with some nice leading edge relief.  We’re actually longer than my 620 CB’s with the same Project X 6.0’s in them.

 

The only problem I had was they were impossible to bend.  I’ve never had the trouble bending a club like I did with these.  Couldn’t get them to move nearly at all and I play my irons pretty upright.

 

On the Arias website they recommend sending them in for loft/lie adjustment, I just moved on instead.

Yeah I would need them 2* up with a +1/4 shaft.  They said no problem as long as they do them.  Funny you mentioned the 620 CB's.  My buddy had those irons and my first thought was the 620's when I saw the D-23's.

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

... Like many things with golf equipment, how you started can have an influence on your choices. I know really good players that prefer offset and some started playing with Eye 2's. I had a set of TE Zero Offset irons and realized I like just a little progressive offset. And real numbers don't always reflect the hosel grind and visual offset in any given set, so the eye test is more important then web specs. The real head scratcher for me is why Callaway has more visual offset in their Players and even their MB scoring irons as these are the last clubs I want to see offset at address. 

 

When I got my set of Muirfields, I was surprised at how much offset they had.  The "why" was because Jack Nicklaus likes a bit of offset in his irons.

 

How about that. 🙂

 

[chisag]

5 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

When I got my set of Muirfields, I was surprised at how much offset they had.  The "why" was because Jack Nicklaus likes a bit of offset in his irons.

 

How about that. 🙂

 

 

... Yup many pros would be ostracized on WRX. When I asked the Mizuno rep if they could make the MP33's with a thinner top line, I was informed No with a barely suppressed "you guys just crack me up" grin. But the rep said they do have a slightly different mold for Darren Clark that preferred a thicker top line on his MP33's. 🤣

[DeCuchi]

21 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Yup many pros would be ostracized on WRX. When I asked the Mizuno rep if they could make the MP33's with a thinner top line, I was informed No with a barely suppressed "you guys just crack me up" grin. But the rep said they do have a slightly different mold for Darren Clark that preferred a thicker top line on his MP33's. 🤣

Pro’s vary just like we do. Like Adam Scott and his 680’s. Even the new ones Titleist made for him looked like a 681 with 680 offset. JT’s preferred much less on his. For me offset is about alignment. Similar to the way sightlines on a putter. Some hate them, others can’t putt without them.

[DeCuchi]

8 hours ago, ReefDonkey said:

Please post up and give some details!

Here they are. Hoping to get some range time with them tomorrow.

[ReefDonkey]

48 minutes ago, DeCuchi said:

Here they are. Hoping to get some range time with them tomorrow.

 

 

Looking great !!!  And those Sub70 MB's in raw are awesome looking too !!  You went with the .370 tip?  Hit 'em well and let us know how they did.

[DeCuchi]

10 minutes ago, ReefDonkey said:

 

 

Looking great !!!  And those Sub70 MB's in raw are awesome looking too !!  You went with the .370 tip?  Hit 'em well and let us know how they did.

Love my sub70’s, these Arias are just an experiment really. I got the taper tip version. I could use a softer shaft while battling some injuries and don’t want to pull the recoils. I was going to grab a set of chrome sub 70’s, but these popped up and I could order heads only so I figured why not.