Fade biased persimmon

[Dgb018]

I’m looking for some help finding a driver for my classic set. I have tried the following models with poor results. 
 

Macgregor 693T remake

Hogan 1953

Toney Penna Mod 2

I assume loft is my issue. Definitely need something that is easier to launch. For reference I swing 45” modern driver 115mph. 

 

[hammergolf]

Not sure if you consider Cleveland Classics old enough, but they were all made with a slightly open face. I played them during my college career because they were very hard to turn over.

[Dgb018]

57 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

Not sure if you consider Cleveland Classics old enough, but they were all made with a slightly open face. I played them during my college career because they were very hard to turn over.

 I’m willing to try. These were before my time so wondering what was typical from a loft standpoint. 

[Swingingk]

1 hour ago, Dgb018 said:

 I’m willing to try. These were before my time so wondering what was typical from a loft standpoint. 

I'd agree that the Clevelands are a good starting point - excellent suggestion.  They are very high quality and have relatively modern shafts.  With a 115mph swing you'll need an extra stiff shaft I'd think and It's not unheard of to find one with an X100 in it.  Loft would be around 10 degrees.  

Some of the problem with getting lumber to launch properly comes from choosing the right ball.  There are several threads dedicated to the subject. 

[mocokid]

Graphite might help!

[hammergolf]

10 hours ago, Dgb018 said:

 I’m willing to try. These were before my time so wondering what was typical from a loft standpoint. 

I know that all my Cleveland Classic drivers were 10* of loft and 1-2* open.

[bcstones]

14 hours ago, Dgb018 said:

I’m looking for some help finding a driver for my classic set. I have tried the following models with poor results. 
 

Macgregor 693T remake

Hogan 1953

Toney Penna Mod 2

I assume loft is my issue. Definitely need something that is easier to launch. For reference I swing 45” modern driver 115mph. 

 

first question that came to mind was- is the Hogan 1953, the commerative 53 (with the Hogan profile on the sole) or a MacGregor Ben Hogan wood? If it is the Hogan Commerorative 53 persimmon driver, it might have "some" value...the Hogan experts here could tell you best.
Let me preface my next question....I'm neither club builder nor expert, there are plenty in this forum. Ok, that said - could you find a more lofted driver in a Women's driver & simply reshaft. 

The last thing is you mentioned your "classic set"...define your terms 🙂 50s, 60s, 70s? What is in your set?

Edited November 21, 2022 by bcstones

[Stephen8802]

The Palmer Peerless P61 driver was a medium-faced club with 12* loft. With modern balls, classic persimmon does tend to have a lower trajectory and the 12* does help get it up.

 

I hit traditional lofts well enough, but I'm having John Hayes build me a 13* 693 head, which will give me a driver-sized club with 2 wood loft. I'm really looking forward to hitting that.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Stephen8802

[Pepperturbo]

15 hours ago, Dgb018 said:

I’m looking for some help finding a driver for my classic set. I have tried the following models with poor results. 
 

Macgregor 693T remake

Hogan 1953

Toney Penna Mod 2

I assume loft is my issue. Definitely need something that is easier to launch. For reference I swing 45” modern driver 115mph. 

 

I've played many rounds with old Persimmon Bulge and roll drivers, and liked the experience.  If the club head is made in the traditional manner, COG tends slightly high and closer to the face, like old blades.  I didn't see many 10.5+ lofted persimmon heads, but they did exist.  Bulge and roll face, design wise, is supposed to bring the ball back online, only that isn't the case with less than optimum swings.  It tends to exacerbate the user's swing tendency, so if your spin tends right, you'll see more slices, etc.  Good luck finding that driver. 

[Dgb018]

8 hours ago, bcstones said:

first question that came to mind was- is the Hogan 1953, the commerative 53 (with the Hogan profile on the sole) or a MacGregor Ben Hogan wood? If it is the Hogan Commerorative 53 persimmon driver, it might have "some" value...the Hogan experts here could tell you best.
Let me preface my next question....I'm neither club builder nor expert, there are plenty in this forum. Ok, that said - could you find a more lofted driver in a Women's driver & simply reshaft. 

The last thing is you mentioned your "classic set"...define your terms 🙂 50s, 60s, 70s? What is in your set?

The driver is the commemorative model. My irons are from late seventies. Hogan cameos. 

[Dgb018]

7 hours ago, Stephen8802 said:

The Palmer Peerless P61 driver was a medium-faced club with 12* loft. With modern balls, classic persimmon does tend to have a lower trajectory and the 12* does help get it up.

 

I hit traditional lofts well enough, but I'm having John Hayes build me a 13* 693 head, which will give me a driver-sized club with 2 wood loft. I'm really looking forward to hitting that.

Do you mind sharing any info on having one built?

[Stephen8802]

48 minutes ago, Dgb018 said:

Do you mind sharing any info on having one built?

There are several people who can build you a persimmon driver, usually using one of the classic head shapes like a 693 or 945. They also can build you an LFF, but that isn't going to help you get the ball elevated. Right now, Nim Brann and David Bass both build beautiful persimmons. You can find Nim on FaceBook and David has a web page. I'm not sure if Nim has a web page or not, but I've been on David's. The best thing about custom is you tell them what head shape, what color, what insert, what shaft...what ever you want...and that's what they build for you.

 

I'm waiting for John Hayes to get his shop up and running, which should be early next year. John is a friend and one of the most talented people with persimmon you will find. He bought out the Joe Powell estate and has all of Powell's tools and supplies He is currently prototyping some really cool sole plates, think Wood Bros type sole plates, but he will be able to build a plate that means something to you. And, of course, his clubs will be completely custom. He and I have worked up a design that uses the Oak Leaf symbol from my college course (Seven Oaks) as the sole plate and ties in design elements that are all symbols from the school. That course is my favorite place on the planet and I still think of it all the time, so this driver will be tied back to my best golf memories. You can also find John on FaceBook and I'm sure he will have a web site when he starts full production.

 

If you need links, shoot me a PM.

[bcstones]

14 hours ago, Dgb018 said:

The driver is the commemorative model. My irons are from late seventies. Hogan cameos. 

Thanks...I have a Commerative, while looking for info, was surprised at the prices/value & love the history of it (commemorates Hogan's best year). Are the irons black, white (Apex II, if memory serves correctly) or the brass cameo (I'm a bit confused here, there is a brass cameo w/medallion on it, & I'm sure I've seen a set w/just the brass cameo like the black or white cameos...I'll have to check). Anyway...Enjoy the Play

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

It was common in the UK to adjust woods to provide the desired flight, all Club Pros had it as part of their training. I have a late 70s PGA manual detailing how to do it.

I'm surely positive that this was similarly common practice in the US. I bet there are any amount of older Pros who could set up an existing club for you to experiment with.

[NRJyzr]

On 11/20/2022 at 8:55 PM, Dgb018 said:

I’m looking for some help finding a driver for my classic set. I have tried the following models with poor results. 
 

Macgregor 693T remake

Hogan 1953

Toney Penna Mod 2

I assume loft is my issue. Definitely need something that is easier to launch. For reference I swing 45” modern driver 115mph. 

 

 

At my best, I was slightly slower than you, and had the opposite trajectory problem; I always hit the ball quite high.  That said, a couple comments...

 

If you're having trouble with the ball turning over, and with a 115mph swing, I would expect you'd need to look at something like Dynamic X/DGX100 (or X200, X300, etc) in a persimmon.  The Dynamic wood shaft isn't quite as stiff as its reputation, once you get into the 90s.  In the 80s, it's a bit better, and perhaps even more so if you go back to the 60s or even 50s.

 

If you're accustomed to tip stiff graphite in the modern drivers, the steel wood shafts could be contributing to drawing.  Dynamic wood shafts are not as tip stiff as their reputation.  I spent a lot of time trying steel in driver or fairway woods, only to find some woods would produce nearly unplayable spin for me with DGX, but would be quite usable with even pedestrian graphite like the NV75/NV85 or the old Aldila One.

 

As for loft...  already mentioned, persimmon hits noticeably lower than modern Ti drivers.  In Ye Olde Days, many golfers opted for 2 woods for this reason; the drivers just hit the ball too low for them.  Something that might be worth checking out as an experiment, Ping black dot or even red dot laminated drivers.  I've included the lofts below.  I'm thinking an Eye2 or Zing would be a good fit.  If shaft is an issue, maybe the Zing would be a better fit, as they usually have the KT or KT-M shaft.  Should be stout enough for your swing.  Also tend to be reasonably priced, though less so in the post-COVID golf equipment world.

 

 

couple random thoughts as I make dinner...  🙂

 

[Dgb018]

33 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

At my best, I was slightly slower than you, and had the opposite trajectory problem; I always hit the ball quite high.  That said, a couple comments...

 

If you're having trouble with the ball turning over, and with a 115mph swing, I would expect you'd need to look at something like Dynamic X/DGX100 (or X200, X300, etc) in a persimmon.  The Dynamic wood shaft isn't quite as stiff as its reputation, once you get into the 90s.  In the 80s, it's a bit better, and perhaps even more so if you go back to the 60s or even 50s.

 

If you're accustomed to tip stiff graphite in the modern drivers, the steel wood shafts could be contributing to drawing.  Dynamic wood shafts are not as tip stiff as their reputation.  I spent a lot of time trying steel in driver or fairway woods, only to find some woods would produce nearly unplayable spin for me with DGX, but would be quite usable with even pedestrian graphite like the NV75/NV85 or the old Aldila One.

 

As for loft...  already mentioned, persimmon hits noticeably lower than modern Ti drivers.  In Ye Olde Days, many golfers opted for 2 woods for this reason; the drivers just hit the ball too low for them.  Something that might be worth checking out as an experiment, Ping black dot or even red dot laminated drivers.  I've included the lofts below.  I'm thinking an Eye2 or Zing would be a good fit.  If shaft is an issue, maybe the Zing would be a better fit, as they usually have the KT or KT-M shaft.  Should be stout enough for your swing.  Also tend to be reasonably priced, though less so in the post-COVID golf equipment world.

 

 

couple random thoughts as I make dinner...  🙂

 

Thanks for the input. I’ll check those out. 

[Dgb018]

9 hours ago, bcstones said:

Thanks...I have a Commerative, while looking for info, was surprised at the prices/value & love the history of it (commemorates Hogan's best year). Are the irons black, white (Apex II, if memory serves correctly) or the brass cameo (I'm a bit confused here, there is a brass cameo w/medallion on it, & I'm sure I've seen a set w/just the brass cameo like the black or white cameos...I'll have to check). Anyway...Enjoy the Play

They are Apex II with white cameo. Apex Pro #4 shafts which came with silver shaft band. They’re a pretty easy transition for me apart from having less bounce than my gamers. The shaft feels incredibly stout but comes out on frequency machine significantly softer than 6.0 PX that I game. 

[Bigarch]

Launching the ball with persimmons these days is even tougher because the modern ball is designed to not spin.  Not only is it tougher to launch but it makes it tougher to shape shots.  You can experiment with some more "spin-ier" golf balls and see if that helps.  I AM a big fan of the Clevelands though.  But my best "driving" club in my stable is an old Spalding 2-wood.

[Dgb018]

Been poking around a bit and might have someone who can alter something classic. Both loft and weight wise.