Please rank these iron shafts in terms of overall flex.

[Gerr]

MMT 80 Stiff (Parallel)

KBS Tour Lite 105 Reg (Parallel)

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Parallel)

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Taper)

Modus3 105 Stiff (Taper)

Modus3 105 Reg (Taper)
PX LZ 115 5.5 (Taper)

TT XP 105 R300 (Taper)

 

I know flex is vendor specific, so looking for anyone with knowledge with 2 or more of these shafts to help rank them in order of stiffest to most flexible.  Even if you only know a couple, please rank them.

 

Thank you.

[sheamclkel]

This is a great question for a fitter that can help you try all these shafts. Others people opinions will not help your situation. Go get fit, experiment, and see what happens. Its really the only way!

[Pepperturbo]

Order of stiffness is too subjective, no merit.  You should be looking at which shaft bend profiles best fit your swing speed, tempo and transition. 

 

I currently have MMT 105s in my blades, and make mid-bend work, only they are not the best for my tempo and transition.  My swing is more fluid with mid-high to high bend or low-mid bend profiles.  With the correct profile, I am comfortable with Regular as well as Stiff.

 

I only use Taper tip because those shafts come fit for each Titleist hosel, no trimming.  Parallel tip is great if I were having a set of shafts frequency/flex matched to my swing.

[Gerr]

Please stick to the original topic, I have my reasons for asking that I don't want to type out.  I know order of stiffness is subjective, but if enough people respond, it will still give me a ball park order.

[Evanwill10]

https://exactgolf.com/pages/iron-shaft-comparison
 

did not look for your specific examples, but this chart and the commentary is pretty helpful.

[WristySwing]

3 hours ago, Gerr said:

MMT 80 Stiff (Parallel)

KBS Tour Lite 105 Reg (Parallel)

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Parallel)

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Taper)

Modus3 105 Stiff (Taper)

Modus3 105 Reg (Taper)
PX LZ 115 5.5 (Taper)

TT XP 105 R300 (Taper)

 

I know flex is vendor specific, so looking for anyone with knowledge with 2 or more of these shafts to help rank them in order of stiffest to most flexible.  Even if you only know a couple, please rank them.

 

Thank you.

 

Are you asking for raw butt frequency or are you asking for opinions based on testing?  CPM is objective, testing is subjective.  However, CPM is also inherently flawed because it does not take into account any sort of stiffness outside of the butt, which on some shafts are often unreliable indicators of true flex.  If raw frequency, I am sure @Howard_Jones can point you to his CPM chart he created and updates periodically.  It might not have everything, but it is a good place to start.

Edited November 23, 2022 by WristySwing

[Gerr]

No, not pure butt CPM as I know that tells only part of the story.  I am talking in terms of overall flex, ie does one shaft play a "little" stiffer or weaker than another, no matter what flex it says on the shaft.

[Gerr]

17 minutes ago, Evanwill10 said:

https://exactgolf.com/pages/iron-shaft-comparison
 

did not look for your specific examples, but this chart and the commentary is pretty helpful.

The problem with that site is I think it uses only butt CPM's, which only gives some of the story, but far from all.

 

To get this rolling, let me sort by what I think might be a ball part sorting and would like others to chime is if they believe something differently...

 

***Stiffest***

Modus3 105 Stiff (Taper)

PX LZ 115 5.5 (Taper)

Modus3 105 Reg (Taper)

KBS Tour Lite 105 Reg (Parallel)

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Parallel)

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Taper)

MMT 80 Stiff (Parallel)

TT XP 105 R300 (Taper)
***Softest***

[SteelieD]

A completely ambiguous question as a several people have helpfully pointed out yet you’re demanding a concrete answer. 
 

Looks like you have the list sorted by what YOUR opinion is. Really all that matters. 
 

Good luck. 

[Gerr]

6 minutes ago, SteelieD said:

A completely ambiguous question as a several people have helpfully pointed out yet you’re demanding a concrete answer. 
 

Looks like you have the list sorted by what YOUR opinion is. Really all that matters. 

No, not looking for a concrete answer as I know there is none.  Looking for multiple opinions to help narrow things down to a reasonable level.

 

My list is a wild ballpark sorting based on info gathered from multiple sources, but without many direct comparisons.  I very well could be way off, hence asking the community.

 

Why is everyone fighting me on this?  If you have experience or knowledge of 2 or more of these shafts, I would love to hear your opinion on said shafts.  If all you want to do is comment on how flawed my question is, please keep that to yourself.  

[Evanwill10]

42 minutes ago, Gerr said:

The problem with that site is I think it uses only butt CPM's, which only gives some of the story, but far from all.

 

To get this rolling, let me sort by what I think might be a ball part sorting and would like others to chime is if they believe something differently...

 

***Stiffest***

Modus3 105 Stiff (Taper)

PX LZ 115 5.5 (Taper)

Modus3 105 Reg (Taper)

KBS Tour Lite 105 Reg (Parallel)

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Parallel)

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Taper)

MMT 80 Stiff (Parallel)

TT XP 105 R300 (Taper)
***Softest***

If you have all the answers, then why ask in the first place? 

[nsxguy]

ibtl

[WristySwing]

1 hour ago, Gerr said:

Why is everyone fighting me on this?  If you have experience or knowledge of 2 or more of these shafts, I would love to hear your opinion on said shafts. 

 

Because what you are asking is a deeply personal thing.  You are not asking for raw numbers, you are asking for opinions on what someone thinks is stiffer, but you won't tell us why, only that you have reasons.  You're essentially saying "rank McDonald's, Wendy's, and Burger King signature sandwiches, I know which ones I like, but I want you to tell me which one's you think are best". In my opinion, it will go like this from stiffest to softest:

 

PX LZ 115 5.5 (Taper).....heaviest, therefore stiffest

Modus3 105 Stiff (Taper)

Modus3 105 Reg (Taper) or KBS Tour Lite 105 Reg (Parallel) or TT XP 105 R300 (Taper)......almost identical in terms of weight and roughly similar balance points

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Parallel) or TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Taper).......identical shafts, just one has a larger tip diameter, they will play identically.

MMT 80 Stiff (Parallel).....lightest, therefore softest

 

For honesty, I have not hit the KBS 105 in years, nor have I tried the Elevate 95 or XP 105.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by WristySwing

[Gerr]

6 hours ago, WristySwing said:

 

Because what you are asking is a deeply personal thing.  You are not asking for raw numbers, you are asking for opinions on what someone thinks is stiffer, but you won't tell us why, only that you have reasons. 

 

Deeply personal thing?...lol  I am just asking what people think of a hand full of shafts and their relative stiffness.  I don't want to write up a half page post explaining why, and shouldn't need to.  Can't I just ask people who have experienced at least 2 of these shafts to give me their overall opinions?  

 

The KBS Tour Lite 105 is a fairly new shaft to the market, so not expecting a lot of people to be familiar with it.

 

It sounds like you are mainly sorting by weight as the primary stiffness factor and only making a difference between flex if within the same weight class.

[Gerr]

7 hours ago, Evanwill10 said:

If you have all the answers, then why ask in the first place? 

Reading FTW..."what I think might be a ball park sorting".  Does that sound like someone who knows for sure and doesn't need to ask?

[WristySwing]

6 hours ago, Gerr said:

Deeply personal thing?...lol  I am just asking what people think of a hand full of shafts and their relative stiffness.  I don't want to write up a half page post explaining why, and shouldn't need to.  Can't I just ask people who have experienced at least 2 of these shafts to give me their overall opinions?  

 

The KBS Tour Lite 105 is a fairly new shaft to the market, so not expecting a lot of people to be familiar with it.

 

It sounds like you are mainly sorting by weight as the primary stiffness factor and only making a difference between flex if within the same weight class.

 

Because weight is flex 90% of the time, the other 10% is bend profile. Project X and KBS shafts don't actually get stiffer, they just add more weight to shaft in key areas.  That is why their "flex" goes up in weight in 5g increments per shaft.  Take the  Elevate 95 for example in Stiff and Regular.  The stiff has an EI rating of 91 at the butt but the regular is 101 at the butt.  The stiff has an EI rating of 40 at the mid, but the reg is 35. They both have a tip EI of 21.  The Stiff weighs 3g heavier raw at 107 while the Reg weighs 104.  What can we deduce from this information, nothing really, only that the stiff has a stiffer mid section and weighs more, so that they likely beefed up the mid section with extra weight.  

 

As for your first comment to me.  Maybe you shouldn't be so arrogant to the one person who actually helped you in this thread and be thankful someone actually did?  The advice earlier on was sound, you need to hit these.  Ranking them is completely pointless it means nothing in the grand scheme of things.  If you had typed out a concise reason for why you were interested in your point of doing this, you wouldn't have had to type out "I shouldn't have to write it out because I just want opinions" 5 or more times.

 

 I have used DG 105 in the past as it feels good to me.  I have tried on numerous occasions Rifle and Project X shafts.  Even the "reg" 5.5 IO which is one of the softer profiles PX has made, feels like absolute rebar to me.  It has the same weight as the DG105.  The way PX distributes their weight on these (closer to the hands with a lighter tip) feels so stiff to me and not good.  There, that should answer why I ranked them how I did, why the PX and KBS shafts are stiffer than others, etc. 

 

Aren't you the same guy who posted last week saying the 5.0 LZ shaft was senior flex? Your username rings a bell.  We told you then the exact same thing that LZ 5.0 is reg and 5.5 is their stiff. 

[iclypso]

Can only comment on the ones I've used, of course. In ascending order of stiffness:

 

 

 

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Parallel)

 

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Taper)

 

MMT 80 Stiff (Parallel)

 

Modus3 105 Stiff (Taper)

 

 

[Seamus_McDuff]

I’ve played PX LZ 5.5 and Modus 105x ss/x1 and found them very similar. Based on that I’d put the PX LZ 5.5 above the Modus 105s. 

[Gerr]

1 hour ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

I’ve played PX LZ 5.5 and Modus 105x ss/x1 and found them very similar. Based on that I’d put the PX LZ 5.5 above the Modus 105s. 

While only a couple people have commented so far, this seems to be the pattern, weight over stated flex when it comes to overall flex.  Thanks for your input!  Hoping more do.

[Gerr]

4 hours ago, WristySwing said:

 

Aren't you the same guy who posted last week saying the 5.0 LZ shaft was senior flex?

I was quoting PXG.  For PXG, all Project-X 6.0 shafts are labeled as stiff, all 5.5 are reg, all 5.0 are senior.  I didn't think that was correct, hence the reason I brought it up.

[ChipNRun]

23 hours ago, Gerr said:

Even if you only know a couple, please rank them.

Shafts have relative stiffness - in part - by how quickly a player loads or unloads during the swing. I sense this would be a lot of individual differences influencing the answers.

 

For a rough view, call up customer service at The GolfWorks. From my past experience, the reps seem to know their shafts pretty well.

[Gerr]

2 hours ago, iclypso said:

Can only comment on the ones I've used, of course. In ascending order of stiffness:

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Parallel)

TT Elevate 95 Stiff (Taper)

MMT 80 Stiff (Parallel)

Modus3 105 Stiff (Taper)

Ah, the first person to NOT sort by weight.  While I would like more people to chime in, one of my primary questions is where do those MMT's stand as some say weak due to light weight while others say pretty true to flex even a bit stout.  I have them in my PXG Gen3's, but have a set of Callaway Apex's on the way with Elevate 95 Stiff, so should be able to comment on those soon.  By the way, 25% off all orders on Callaway Pre-Owned, some really nice deals if you can find something in stock.  Scored a set of like-new Apex 19 5-PW for $500 out the door.

[Gerr]

Just now, ChipNRun said:

For a rough view, call up customer service at The GolfWorks. From my past experience, the reps seem to know their shafts pretty well.

hmm, had not thought of that, good idea.

[Stuart_G]

On 11/23/2022 at 4:41 PM, Gerr said:

Looking for multiple opinions to help narrow things down to a reasonable level.

 

Then you should start by figuring out the best shaft weight fit for you and your swing (or whomever you're asking for).    For the vast majority of people, shaft weight is going to be way more important than stiffness.   And 80 gm to 115 gm is a pretty big range - you should be able to narrow it down to a more reasonable level relatively easily.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Stuart_G

[Stuart_G]

17 hours ago, Gerr said:

one of my primary questions is where do those MMT's stand as some say weak due to light weight while others say pretty true to flex even a bit stout. 

 

With steel shafts, there does tend to be a (very) rough relationship between weight and stiffness.  Wall thickness does play a big part in both weight and stiffness (although not the only design factor that dictates stiffness).

 

However, with graphite, you can't make assumptions about any relationship between weight and stiffness.   Weight comes mostly from the amount of epoxy used.  Stiffness comes from the graphite.  So it's much easier for the designers to manipulate stiffness and weight independently.

 

So MMT's are what they are because that's what the designers wanted to create.   You can look at the Steelfiber i80's as an alternative example.   That would be relatively high on the list of stiffness.   e.g. the i80 Reg flex is significantly stiffer than the modus 105 Reg and actually pretty close to the Modus 105 Stiff.  The i80 Reg has a similar butt, softer middle, stiffer tip than the modus 105 stiff.   

 

That's also another example of why perception can be different from different people when any two shafts are compared.   Some parts of the shaft can be relatively stiffer while other parts might be relatively weaker - and different people might have different sensitivity to different parts of the shaft.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Stuart_G

[Gerr]

Well, after all that, ended up buying a new set of irons off the big Callaway Pre-Owned sale....Apex 19 with Elevate 95 Stiff's.   Those shafts just seem to work better for me than the MMT 80's in my current PXG set.

[nsxguy]

13 minutes ago, Gerr said:

Well, after all that, ended up buying a new set of irons off the big Callaway Pre-Owned sale....Apex 19 with Elevate 95 Stiff's.   Those shafts just seem to work better for me than the MMT 80's in my current PXG set.

 

Congrats.

 

Parallel or Taper ?

[Gerr]

On 11/29/2022 at 8:18 AM, nsxguy said:

 

Congrats.

 

Parallel or Taper ?

I would presume taper coming from Callaway.  Ya, I know, 102g in taper, but I always thought 100-105g was my sweet spot.