Golden Ram Tour Grind…which one?

[mbwannab]

Hello fellow blade lovers, I’m thinking I need to add a set of Golden Rams to my collection because well, you know😏. I was wondering what you all thought as to which model is #1 in your book (frequency,vibration,axial,etc?) Which one do you prefer? Thanks for your time!

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, mbwannab said:

Hello fellow blade lovers, I’m thinking I need to add a set of Golden Rams to my collection because well, you know😏. I was wondering what you all thought as to which model is #1 in your book (frequency,vibration,axial,etc?) Which one do you prefer? Thanks for your time!

Excellent choice!

For me it has to be the original from 80 - 82.

Delighted to be playing these again having played my original set to destruction!

I have never played the Vibration matched irons which i know many covet, nor Axial's but i do have a sets of Frequency Matched and TW Custom Grind. 

Original remains the best for me.

[NRJyzr]

I do love Ram Tour Grind discussion   🥳

 

This will almost certainly get long, my apologies in advance...

 

There are several "varieties" in the Golden Ram universe.  Most look at the 80 Tour Grinds, the Vibration Matched, and Frequency Matched models, which cover 1980 through 1992.  There are subtle differences between them, which is complicated by the fact that Ram had a very active custom shop.  Because of that, I'm not sure my view on the differences between models is representative of the standard offerings, or merely that the sets I own or have owned are due to small customizations of these particular sets.

 

On ebay right now, there are two listing of Vibration Matched Golden Rams sets that provide an excellent example of Ram's custom activity.  One set look to be fairly standard VM set, while the other have a square toe grind similar to the TW282 set from 1992.

 

All that said, my view is that the 80 Tour Grinds, Vibration Matched, and Frequency Matched are largely similar overall, with slight grind differences.  The 80 Tour Grinds are a little square in the heel at the sole, with a flatter overall sole.  The Vibration Matched add a bit of rounding to that heel, as well as to the toe at the sole.  The Frequency Matched are very similar to the Vibration Matched, possibly identical.

 

My set of Frequency Matched were flatter in the sole than my Vibration Matched are, but I've seen other Frequency Matched that were much more similar to most Vibration Matched sets I've seen.  See Custom Shop comments above. 😉

 

Across all three of these sets, Ram had "special editions" that could be found.  TW Custom Grinds and Camber Sole models were available.  The TW Customs were square toe flatter soled versions, while the Camber Soles are what you'd expect from the name.  There may have been others I've not heard of.

 

In 1992, Ram produced two special Watson commemorative sets, the TW276 and TW282.  The designations are Tom Watson's initials with the score of two of his major wins (282 at the 1982 US Open, 276 at the 1977 Masters).  The TW276 clubheads have a bit of heel-toe camber as well as leading edge to trailing edge camber.  The TW282 set are a very square toe with a flatter sole.  Not terribly common, but can be found here and there.  I get the impression their scarcity is at least partially due to the interest in them.  I may be underselling that a bit.  <shrug>

 

Then there are the Axials.  They are an oversized version, have more offset, a higher toe, and the muscle extends higher up the back of the clubhead.  Some love them, some appear to not care for them.  They're a Frequency Matched vintage, from the 87-92 time frame.  My experience with them is just pics and comments online.

 

The caveat to the above...  while I was alive during all of the above, I'm a late comer to the world of Ram.  Largely due to not picking up the game until late summer of 1998, somewhat before my 35th birthday.  Everything I know about Ram is personal experience owning sets, hitting them in demo mode, a lot of reading and questions about the brand, especially from the early days of online forums, primarily GEA.  Point being, I know a fair amount, but I'm not a True Expert.  Some of the Hansberger family are active in Facebook groups such as Persimmon Golf Society or Forged Club Appreciation, they would be the true experts.

 

Anyone still awake?  LOL

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by NRJyzr
typos

[NRJyzr]

Just realized I didn't mention my preference....

 

I like them all, but my favorite set would be the TW276 Golden Rams.  Have had some excellent results with them, and like that sole.

 

Also had great fun playing my TW282 set in my last round of 2022.  🙂

 

[mbwannab]

2 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

my last round of 2022.  🙂

 

😢

[mbwannab]

4 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

Just realized I didn't mention my preference....

 

I like them all, but my favorite set would be the TW276 Golden Rams.  Have had some excellent results with them, and like that sole.

 

Also had great fun playing my TW282 set in my last round of 2022.  🙂

 

Whichever model has the least offset and not too square of a toe would be what I lean towards. 😉

[NRJyzr]

3 minutes ago, mbwannab said:

Whichever model has the least offset and not too square of a toe would be what I lean towards. 😉

 

That would disqualify the Axials.  🙂

 

None of the non-Axial models have much offset.  Especially if you don't bend them strong.  My TW282 and 1980 Tour Grind sets have the lofts set at 19-51 and 20-52 for 2-PW, respectively, and they have essentially no offset.  My TW276 set are at 21-49 for 3-PW, don't have much at all.  The 2 iron is at 19* per my manual protractor and doesn't have much.  I'll be tweaking the 276's weaker before I use them again.

 

I didn't mention the FX Tour Grinds from 1994-1995 earlier, because they're not Golden Rams, but they may as well be.  They're *very* similar to the Golden Rams, except the lofts are 18* 2i, 21* 3i, and 24* 4i, to a 48* PW.

 

There's also a TG-898 set from the late 90s into 2002 or so, before the TearDrop group (which owned Ram) filed bankruptcy.  Their lofts are same as mentioned for the FX Tour Grinds above.  The clubheads are largely similar to the Golden Ram shape, but are slightly larger than the Golden Rams.  Have a set of these, also, find them quite worthy.

 

And since I've mentioned the lofts...   there's a pdf shared from GolfWorks / Ralph Maltby that has generic lofts and lies from various sets in the past.  The data they show for the 1982 edition of Golden Rams has lofts that are a bit stronger in the short irons than other info I've seen in past years.  As for which is correct, anyone's guess.  😉

 

Personally, I've felt they are fine being set with lofts similar to the FG-17s, which are 20/30/50 for 2i/5i/pw.  For what little that's worth.

 

I guess I just can't shut up about Ram Tour Grinds.  LOL

 

If I can manage over the holiday weekend (in the USA, anyway), I'll try take a few pics of my assorted sets...

 

[mbwannab]

5 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

That would disqualify the Axials.  🙂

 

None of the non-Axial models have much offset.  Especially if you don't bend them strong.  My TW282 and 1980 Tour Grind sets have the lofts set at 19-51 and 20-52 for 2-PW, respectively, and they have essentially no offset.  My TW276 set are at 21-49 for 3-PW, don't have much at all.  The 2 iron is at 19* per my manual protractor and doesn't have much.  I'll be tweaking the 276's weaker before I use them again.

 

I didn't mention the FX Tour Grinds from 1994-1995 earlier, because they're not Golden Rams, but they may as well be.  They're *very* similar to the Golden Rams, except the lofts are 18* 2i, 21* 3i, and 24* 4i, to a 48* PW.

 

There's also a TG-898 set from the late 90s into 2002 or so, before the TearDrop group (which owned Ram) filed bankruptcy.  Their lofts are same as mentioned for the FX Tour Grinds above.  The clubheads are largely similar to the Golden Ram shape, but are slightly larger than the Golden Rams.  Have a set of these, also, find them quite worthy.

 

And since I've mentioned the lofts...   there's a pdf shared from GolfWorks / Ralph Maltby that has generic lofts and lies from various sets in the past.  The data they show for the 1982 edition of Golden Rams has lofts that are a bit stronger in the short irons than other info I've seen in past years.  As for which is correct, anyone's guess.  😉

 

Personally, I've felt they are fine being set with lofts similar to the FG-17s, which are 20/30/50 for 2i/5i/pw.  For what little that's worth.

 

I guess I just can't shut up about Ram Tour Grinds.  LOL

 

If I can manage over the holiday weekend (in the USA, anyway), I'll try take a few pics of my assorted sets...

 

Yes I also prefer “traditional” lofts👍🏻

[Foozle]

23 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

That would disqualify the Axials.  🙂

 

None of the non-Axial models have much offset.  Especially if you don't bend them strong.  My TW282 and 1980 Tour Grind sets have the lofts set at 19-51 and 20-52 for 2-PW, respectively, and they have essentially no offset.  My TW276 set are at 21-49 for 3-PW, don't have much at all.  The 2 iron is at 19* per my manual protractor and doesn't have much.  I'll be tweaking the 276's weaker before I use them again.

 

I didn't mention the FX Tour Grinds from 1994-1995 earlier, because they're not Golden Rams, but they may as well be.  They're *very* similar to the Golden Rams, except the lofts are 18* 2i, 21* 3i, and 24* 4i, to a 48* PW.

 

There's also a TG-898 set from the late 90s into 2002 or so, before the TearDrop group (which owned Ram) filed bankruptcy.  Their lofts are same as mentioned for the FX Tour Grinds above.  The clubheads are largely similar to the Golden Ram shape, but are slightly larger than the Golden Rams.  Have a set of these, also, find them quite worthy.

 

And since I've mentioned the lofts...   there's a pdf shared from GolfWorks / Ralph Maltby that has generic lofts and lies from various sets in the past.  The data they show for the 1982 edition of Golden Rams has lofts that are a bit stronger in the short irons than other info I've seen in past years.  As for which is correct, anyone's guess.  😉

 

Personally, I've felt they are fine being set with lofts similar to the FG-17s, which are 20/30/50 for 2i/5i/pw.  For what little that's worth.

 

I guess I just can't shut up about Ram Tour Grinds.  LOL

 

If I can manage over the holiday weekend (in the USA, anyway), I'll try take a few pics of my assorted sets...

 

All hail the font of all Ram wisdom!

I very much doubt any "true expert" will find any holes to plug or anything meaningful to add to your comments! Excellent! Thank you!

[AdamMH]

I will throw this out there - the 1975 Golden Ram "Pro Model" is a nice iron as well. Unfortunately I can't compare with newer models, but if you find a set for 40$ like I did, they're worth picking up.

[Nard_S]

The Fx Pro Grinds from 1994, the ones Nick Price used had FM shafts from Brunswick. I think they are awesome.

[CyFan]

I played the Axial when they came out and quite enjoyed them.  A bit unconventional looking with the high toe, but very forgiving for a blade. 

[NRJyzr]

39 minutes ago, AdamMH said:

I will throw this out there - the 1975 Golden Ram "Pro Model" is a nice iron as well. Unfortunately I can't compare with newer models, but if you find a set for 40$ like I did, they're worth picking up.

 

Is that the set with "Golden Ram" in an oval on the back of the clubhead?  I'd intended to mention those in my earlier post but Old Man Brain apparently set in.  🙂

 

They're pretty similar to the 1980 set, flattish sole.  Good stuff.

 

[AdamMH]

8 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Is that the set with "Golden Ram" in an oval on the back of the clubhead?  I'd intended to mention those in my earlier post but Old Man Brain apparently set in.  🙂

 

They're pretty similar to the 1980 set, flattish sole.  Good stuff.

 

Yes! Those are the ones. I had considered throwing some DG S300s in them, but was pleasantly surprised at the stock steel R shafts when I got around to playing them at the end of this season.

[NRJyzr]

Adding a visual of what I was referring to with the 1980 Tour Grinds and the Vibration Matched set.

 

First is a pic from an ebay auction of Vibration Matched, the second is from Foozle's pic above of his 1980 set.  I've circled the portion I was referring to, notice how the heel is slightly rounded in the VM set:

 

 

[NRJyzr]

2 minutes ago, AdamMH said:

Yes! Those are the ones. I had considered throwing some DG S300s in them, but was pleasantly surprised at the stock steel R shafts when I got around to playing them at the end of this season.

 

I have a set of those, also, but the hosel bores are slightly smaller than .355.  Also, it looks like the a couple of the hosels are a different length than the rest.  So, they're just sitting in a box.  🙂

 

[AdamMH]

1 minute ago, NRJyzr said:

 

I have a set of those, also, but the hosel bores are slightly smaller than .355.  Also, it looks like the a couple of the hosels are a different length than the rest.  So, they're just sitting in a box.  🙂

 

Sounds like I definitely need to leave the factory shafts alone. Sounds like we had the same nasty surprise - I pulled a set of 67 Haig Ultras only to find out the shafts (of which multiple tips were bent!) are something like 330 taper...

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, AdamMH said:

Sounds like I definitely need to leave the factory shafts alone. Sounds like we had the same nasty surprise - I pulled a set of 67 Haig Ultras only to find out the shafts (of which multiple tips were bent!) are something like 330 taper...

 

Back in my GEA days, there was a lot of chatter about some Wilson Firestick shafts (Reg flex, if memory serves) being .342 tapered.  Wouldn't surprise me if they were not alone in the universe, for Regular and softer flexes.

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by NRJyzr

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Here are a couple of pictures of the RAM Tour Grinds and Camber Soles for comparison. Camber sole on the left in the first shot.

 

Tour Grinds:

 

Camber Soles

 

Just a little something to add to @NRJyzr's extensive information: I've read that there was a licensing issue over Tom Watson's name in Japan, which led to different stampings for the Japanese market. I'm not entirely sure the Camber Soles are the same as one of the TW grinds but with a different name.

Also, I think the issue was resolved, because I've seen some TW-stamped RAMs come up for sale here, and in fact have a couple:

[tomc262]

On 11/24/2022 at 9:11 AM, NRJyzr said:

I do love Ram Tour Grind discussion   🥳

 

This will almost certainly get long, my apologies in advance...

 

There are several "varieties" in the Golden Ram universe.  Most look at the 80 Tour Grinds, the Vibration Matched, and Frequency Matched models, which cover 1980 through 1992.  There are subtle differences between them, which is complicated by the fact that Ram had a very active custom shop.  Because of that, I'm not sure my view on the differences between models is representative of the standard offerings, or merely that the sets I own or have owned are due to small customizations of these particular sets.

 

On ebay right now, there are two listing of Vibration Matched Golden Rams sets that provide an excellent example of Ram's custom activity.  One set look to be fairly standard VM set, while the other have a square toe grind similar to the TW282 set from 1992.

 

All that said, my view is that the 80 Tour Grinds, Vibration Matched, and Frequency Matched are largely similar overall, with slight grind differences.  The 80 Tour Grinds are a little square in the heel at the sole, with a flatter overall sole.  The Vibration Matched add a bit of rounding to that heel, as well as to the toe at the sole.  The Frequency Matched are very similar to the Vibration Matched, possibly identical.

 

My set of Frequency Matched were flatter in the sole than my Vibration Matched are, but I've seen other Frequency Matched that were much more similar to most Vibration Matched sets I've seen.  See Custom Shop comments above. 😉

 

Across all three of these sets, Ram had "special editions" that could be found.  TW Custom Grinds and Camber Sole models were available.  The TW Customs were square toe flatter soled versions, while the Camber Soles are what you'd expect from the name.  There may have been others I've not heard of.

 

In 1992, Ram produced two special Watson commemorative sets, the TW276 and TW282.  The designations are Tom Watson's initials with the score of two of his major wins (282 at the 1982 US Open, 276 at the 1977 Masters).  The TW276 clubheads have a bit of heel-toe camber as well as leading edge to trailing edge camber.  The TW282 set are a very square toe with a flatter sole.  Not terribly common, but can be found here and there.  I get the impression their scarcity is at least partially due to the interest in them.  I may be underselling that a bit.  <shrug>

 

Then there are the Axials.  They are an oversized version, have more offset, a higher toe, and the muscle extends higher up the back of the clubhead.  Some love them, some appear to not care for them.  They're a Frequency Matched vintage, from the 87-92 time frame.  My experience with them is just pics and comments online.

 

The caveat to the above...  while I was alive during all of the above, I'm a late comer to the world of Ram.  Largely due to not picking up the game until late summer of 1998, somewhat before my 35th birthday.  Everything I know about Ram is personal experience owning sets, hitting them in demo mode, a lot of reading and questions about the brand, especially from the early days of online forums, primarily GEA.  Point being, I know a fair amount, but I'm not a True Expert.  Some of the Hansberger family are active in Facebook groups such as Persimmon Golf Society or Forged Club Appreciation, they would be the true experts.

 

Anyone still awake?  LOL

 

Always dropping knowledge, love it!!  

[tomc262]

On 11/25/2022 at 10:46 PM, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

Here are a couple of pictures of the RAM Tour Grinds and Camber Soles for comparison. Camber sole on the left in the first shot.

 

Tour Grinds:

 

Camber Soles

 

Just a little something to add to @NRJyzr's extensive information: I've read that there was a licensing issue over Tom Watson's name in Japan, which led to different stampings for the Japanese market. I'm not entirely sure the Camber Soles are the same as one of the TW grinds but with a different name.

Also, I think the issue was resolved, because I've seen some TW-stamped RAMs come up for sale here, and in fact have a couple:

That lead tape applied to perfection!

[Msmith1258]

Are Golden Ram Tour Grinds taper tip or parallel?

[NRJyzr]

12 hours ago, Msmith1258 said:

Are Golden Ram Tour Grinds taper tip or parallel?

 

The Golden Rams are all tapered.

 

Added comment:  when you get to the FX Nickel blades in 1996-1997, those appear to be parallel.  

 

edited to add:  the TG-898 set that followed the FX Nickels is tapered (have a set that I've reshafted a couple times)

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by NRJyzr

[golfunderpar18]

Just picked this up. A thing of beauty.

[golfunderpar18]

[jchoch19]

I was seeing if anyone had any information on these irons? What year they came out, lofts, if they are forged or not? I picked them up for cheap at a thrift store, but have had a hard time finding info on them.

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, jchoch19 said:

I was seeing if anyone had any information on these irons? What year they came out, lofts, if they are forged or not? I picked them up for cheap at a thrift store, but have had a hard time finding info on them.

 

Late 60s or early 70s, can't remember off top of my head.  These were the predecessors to the Golden Ram sets that had "Golden Ram" in an oval on the muscle.

 

As for lofts, one can only use the era as a guide.  Unless one of our members here has a catalog image of the specs.  Generally, a 21* 2i, a 31* 5i, and a 51* PW are good bets.  You could even go 32/52 for 5i/pw if you're of a mind.

 

And... forged. 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by NRJyzr