Left wrist flexion/motorcycle move - a more effective way?

[Kuuuch]

I’ve been a huge fan of adding wrist flexion in transition since I was first told to do it 3-4 years ago. The only issue I’ve found is that the most ideal scenario is you’re slightly cupped or flat with the left wrist at the top and then you add a little bow. More dynamic and you get a lot more of the benefits.
 

The issue I’ve always taught is naturally bowing it too early or naturally weakening the grip to balance out how closed my clubface was getting. 
 

The solution I’ve found (well, I didn’t find it my buddy on the korn ferry’s instructor did 🤣) is using the training aid the hanger for backswing rehearsals only. It’s an easy way to ensure left wrist is flat at the top and then after the rehearsal it’s IMO a lot easier to feel when exactly the left wrist should move into flexion (transition). 
 

Idk about you all but I absolutely hate the hanger for downswing work. It forces my clubface open, would have been a lot better if the “hanger” part was made of much more flexible material so you could go from flat to slightly bowed. 

[airjammer]

3 hours ago, Kuuuch said:

I’ve been a huge fan of adding wrist flexion in transition since I was first told to do it 3-4 years ago. The only issue I’ve found is that the most ideal scenario is you’re slightly cupped or flat with the left wrist at the top and then you add a little bow. More dynamic and you get a lot more of the benefits.
 

The issue I’ve always taught is naturally bowing it too early or naturally weakening the grip to balance out how closed my clubface was getting. 
 

The solution I’ve found (well, I didn’t find it my buddy on the korn ferry’s instructor did 🤣) is using the training aid the hanger for backswing rehearsals only. It’s an easy way to ensure left wrist is flat at the top and then after the rehearsal it’s IMO a lot easier to feel when exactly the left wrist should move into flexion (transition). 
 

Idk about you all but I absolutely hate the hanger for downswing work. It forces my clubface open, would have been a lot better if the “hanger” part was made of much more flexible material so you could go from flat to slightly bowed. 

Almost all the people using it seems set the hanger to 1 oclock instead of 12 so you have room to flex more in the downswing. 

[Ri_Redneck]

I did the motorcycle move for years and only suffered inconsistency with directional control. It's flat wrist now and much more accurate.

 

BT

[moehogan]

Try focusing on extending the trail wrist.

[golfarb1]

From the “ Hackmotion wrist sensor “ software . 

“It is a popular belief that you need to be flexed at impact , which is a misconception . What you actually need is to be more flexed ( at impact) than  your address  position , which happens with shaft lean”

 

If you have a strong lead hand grip , it is likely that your lead wrist will be cupped( extended ) at the top and extended at impact . Unfortunately , Dustin Johnson, who has a strong lead hand grip, is the example that many use in advocating a bowed wrist at the top and at impact. But DJs mobility and flexibility is off of the charts even among tour players , who as a whole are far above most amateur players . Those pro golfers who do have their lead wrist bowed at impact generally have weak lead hand grips .

Going another step further ,amateur golfers with average mobility and flexibility and who have strong lead hand grips are risking injury if they try to get their lead wrist  bowed at the top and flexed at impact .

Edited November 24, 2022 by golfarb1

[Hilts1969]

1 hour ago, moehogan said:

Try focusing on extending the trail wrist.

I use the middle 3 fingers of the trail wrist to twist the club which extends the wrist nicely. It also *feels* like I'm pulling the hand towards me but with a straight left arm it in effect doesn't but it gets me to pressure the left foot and keep the left shoulder down and away from the chin.

 

Bowing the left wrist always made me drop the clubhead too much with the right shoulder going the same way.

[Kuuuch]

Actually just saw montes post on this which I really like. https://www.instagram.com/reel/ClAOCN9JOiR/?igshid=YWJhMjlhZTc=
 

He mentions wrist set which imo helps the wrist to be pretty neutral up top too if you’re getting around 90* at left arm parallel.  

[Soloman1]

1 hour ago, golfarb1 said:

From the “ Hackmotion wrist sensor “ software . 

“It is a popular belief that you need to be flexed at impact , which is a misconception . What you actually need is to be more flexed ( at impact) than  your address  position , which happens with shaft lean”

 

 

Since we start out in extension, I guess so. Haha.

[golfarb1]

5 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

 

 

Since we start out in extension, I guess so. Haha.

Yes, but discussions are usually centered on having the

 lead wrist bowed or flat at top and bowed or flat at  impact , when many touring pros have their lead wrist in extension at both points . Such discussions 

Invariably fail to take into consideration the amount of lead wrist extension ( strength of the lead grip) at setup. 

Instead of having a goal of a bowed or flat wrist at impact , 

it would be better to understand that doing so is more the exception than the rule among top players. 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by golfarb1

[Soloman1]

Yes, I know. Most elite golfers are moving toward extension, not in extension.

 

I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of the statement by Hackmotion. 😉

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Soloman1

[Chunkitgood]

How exactly is it ridiculous?  Is it not true?

[Soloman1]

What the heck does “more flexed”mean? You’re in extension at address. You're not going to be in flexion. The comparison to address is meaningless.

 

You can be neutral or in some state of extension or flexion.

 

If you move to flexion during the swing, you’ll need to be transitioning out of flexion as you approach impact, but not into extension.

[golfarb1]

3 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

What the heck does “more flexed”mean? You’re in extension at address. You're not going to be in flexion. The comparison to address is meaningless.

 

You can be neutral or in some state of extension or flexion.

 

If you move to flexion during the swing, you’ll need to be transitioning out of flexion as you approach impact, but not into extension.

There is a difference between flexing or being more flexed and being in flexion . Flexing the wrist means moving the wrist so that it moves  more TOWARDS the inside of the arm by any degree. Flexing the wrist does not require that the wrist be in flexion . One can easily flex the wrist while being in extension .Flexion ( bowing) means that the wrist is actually bent towards the inside of the arm . 
Please define shaft lean in concrete terms that does not compare the amount of wrist flexion/ extension  at impact to its amount at setup  . 
The point that Hackmotion and I are/ were making is that almost all pros and amateurs seem to think that shaft lean requires that the wrist be in flexion or flat at impact and attempt to make swing changes to achieve that goal. But that impact goal is greatly influenced by the strength of the lead hand grip and by a golfers inherent mobility/ flexibility . The goal of a bowed or flat wrist is often a false goal. Even worse golfers who try to achieve this false goal could easily be creating a chronic injury condition in their wrist .

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by golfarb1

[Soloman1]

It’s relative. Increasing or reducing flexion, moving toward extension, etc.

[ALIF]

If you look at Dustin Johnson’s hack motion data it shows that from the top of his swing to impact he extends his wrist I think the number was 45°. Now his lead wrist still is in flexion when he hits the ball but he is seriously going towards an extended wrist from the position he had at the top of his backswing. If he didn’t, he would only hit the ball 2 feet off the ground and you would’ve never heard of him. I like what Monte says, which is to avoid the extremes. I think focusing on extreme moves is probably not the best way to become good at something. Granted the hack motion sensor, G snap, those devices can be helpful when they are indicated. However, if one does not have a significant bacterial infection, then one does not need antibiotics. See what I’m saying?

[Ri_Redneck]

On 11/24/2022 at 2:39 PM, golfarb1 said:

From the “ Hackmotion wrist sensor “ software . 

“It is a popular belief that you need to be flexed at impact , which is a misconception . What you actually need is to be more flexed ( at impact) than  your address  position , which happens with shaft lean”

 

If you have a strong lead hand grip , it is likely that your lead wrist will be cupped( extended ) at the top and extended at impact . Unfortunately , Dustin Johnson, who has a strong lead hand grip, is the example that many use in advocating a bowed wrist at the top and at impact. But DJs mobility and flexibility is off of the charts even among tour players , who as a whole are far above most amateur players . Those pro golfers who do have their lead wrist bowed at impact generally have weak lead hand grips .

Going another step further ,amateur golfers with average mobility and flexibility and who have strong lead hand grips are risking injury if they try to get their lead wrist  bowed at the top and flexed at impact .

I can see this being correct for most golfers who tend to align the shaft vertical at address. Playing my strong grip, I have the shaft more in line with my left arm at address than most people. It creates shaft lean without wrist manipulation. I focus on keeping the back of my wrist flat going back and just swing the club after transition. I have no idea what my wrist is actually doing after transition. But, I can testify that my angular dispersion becomes MUCH tighter when I keep my lead wrist flat in the backswing. Distance has not suffered at all.

 

BT