Remove the flagstick when off the green?

[jmtbkr]

had a person today who wanted the stick removed even if he was 10 yds off the green.

 

Can you?

 

[Colin L]

Yes.   Rule 13.2b

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Colin L
Adding rule reference

[596]

That would be the last time I played with him. What a waste of time. 

[nsxguy]

22 minutes ago, 596 said:

That would be the last time I played with him. What a waste of time. 

 

Well, the OP makes it sound like the guy did it fairly often (all the time ?).

 

If so, that would get annoying very quickly.

 

But if he's got a make-able chip and didn't like the pin being in, having it removed wouldn't bother me.

[Colin L]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

Well, the OP makes it sound like the guy did it fairly often (all the time ?).....

And the OP said

 

2 hours ago, jmtbkr said:

had a person today who wanted the stick removed even if he was 10 yds off the green.

Fairly often? All the time?   That's a remarkable interpretation of words that are obviously about one incident. 

[Mr. Bean]

3 minutes ago, Colin L said:

And the OP said

 

Fairly often? All the time?   That's a remarkable interpretation of words that are obviously about one incident. 

 

For a foreigner that sounds like much more than once. Expression "even if" is not one single instance, provided it was grammatically correctly expressed...

[ArtMBgolf]

With everyone's experience with putting with the flag in, like it or not, 
it's become more rare than ever to see the flag removed on chips.     
 
Even the tour pros are mostly leaving the flag in on chips, although removing it on putts. 
 
Could be the OP player involved had previously hit a chip too hard and it bounced off the pin. 
Did he putt with the flag out also, resulting in Out, In, Out, In ??        

[Bonneville85308]

I used to play regularly with a guy back in the 2000s who would want the flag out on short chips and off-green putts. He was a quirky guy in general, but I didn't mind it since he played fast otherwise and had the short game such that there was a darn good chance he'd hole out the shot.

[Colin L]

53 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

For a foreigner that sounds like much more than once. Expression "even if" is not one single instance, provided it was grammatically correctly expressed...

"Had a person today who wanted the pin removed" clearly refers to a single incident that happened on that day.  The use of "if" is incorrect (unless an Americanism I'm unfamiliar with).  I read it as,

"Had a person today who wanted the pin removed even [though] it was only 10 yards away. " 

[Newby]

1 hour ago, Colin L said:

"Had a person today who wanted the pin removed" clearly refers to a single incident that happened on that day.  The use of "if" is incorrect (unless an Americanism I'm unfamiliar with).  I read it as,

"Had a person today who wanted the pin removed even [though] it was only 10 yards away. " 

It could be read as

"Had a person today who wanted the pin removed even [when] it was only 10 yards away. " 

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, Colin L said:

And the OP said

 

Fairly often? All the time?   That's a remarkable interpretation of words that are obviously about one incident. 

 

Well, I don't know how often the guy missed the green.

 

But "fairly ?" and "All ?" are not  "interpretations", just questions.

 

As Mr B suggested, the "even if" suggests to me the guy did it more than once.

 

i.e. "He requested the pin be taken out when he was 5 feet off, 10 feet off, even when he was 10 yards off",,,,,,,,,,

 

And once we get to "more than once", the fairly/all are simply questions,,,,,,,,,,, i.e."How often ?"

[Colin L]

I'll go with it saying he did It several times  on the day  but not saying he did it "all the time"  in the sense of every time he played golf.   Chances are he did, of course. 🙂

 

Words can be awkward beggars.

[antip]

3 hours ago, Colin L said:

And the OP said

 

Fairly often? All the time?   That's a remarkable interpretation of words that are obviously about one incident. 

I, too, read it as a repeating occurrence. Of course, I don't speak Scottish.

[rainkingjr]

This is what I was afraid of with the rule change. Folks getting annoyed with someone who prefers the pin out, like myself. I especially can't stand putting with the pin in on short putts. I almost never removed the pin on chip shots, but have done it once or twice. I am fast player though. I certainly don't spend an eternity reading or standing over putts. Think long, think wrong is my motto.

[jobin]

Mark the ball, clean the ball, rotate ball with line correctly placed, step back, reposition ball, take address, notice flag shadow, steps back, asks to remove stick, addresses ball again, sinks putt: from 3 inches.

All OK !!!

[antip]

52 minutes ago, rainkingjr said:

 Think long, think wrong is my motto.

My version is don't over-think it. 

[davep043]

1 hour ago, rainkingjr said:

This is what I was afraid of with the rule change. Folks getting annoyed with someone who prefers the pin out, like myself. I especially can't stand putting with the pin in on short putts. I almost never removed the pin on chip shots, but have done it once or twice. I am fast player though. I certainly don't spend an eternity reading or standing over putts. Think long, think wrong is my motto.

 

56 minutes ago, jobin said:

Mark the ball, clean the ball, rotate ball with line correctly placed, step back, reposition ball, take address, notice flag shadow, steps back, asks to remove stick, addresses ball again, sinks putt: from 3 inches.

All OK !!!

First, nothing has changed within the rules regarding a ball not on the green.  You were always allowed to have the pin left in, or removed.  Second, none of that nonsense is allowed for a ball not on the green.

[rainkingjr]

26 minutes ago, davep043 said:

 

First, nothing has changed within the rules regarding a ball not on the green.  You were always allowed to have the pin left in, or removed.  Second, none of that nonsense is allowed for a ball not on the green.

No one said anything about rule changes regarding a ball not on the green. I was simply alluding to the fact that now that the pin can be left in with the ball on the green, some folks will expect everyone to do so and get annoyed when one chooses to do otherwise. That seems to be what the OP is doing.

[2bGood]

6 hours ago, ArtMBgolf said:

With everyone's experience with putting with the flag in, like it or not, 
it's become more rare than ever to see the flag removed on chips.     
 
Even the tour pros are mostly leaving the flag in on chips, although removing it on putts. 
 
Could be the OP player involved had previously hit a chip too hard and it bounced off the pin. 
Did he putt with the flag out also, resulting in Out, In, Out, In ??        

 

I like the flag out when I feel I am in a "makable" situation wether putting or chipping. It is pretty rare that this occurs with a chip, when it does it is usually when I am a few feet off the green with the pin inside of 20feet. 

 

Our course has pretty beefy flag sticks, and I am not convinced that thick flag sticks help getting the ball in the hole. 

 

The other instance I will take it out when I am further than about 20 feet is if the hole is not cut properly and the flag is leaning towards me or the wind is causing to to lean to me. Just don't like the idea that the stick is making the hole smaller. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by 2bGood

[Mr. Bean]

8 hours ago, Colin L said:

"Had a person today who wanted the pin removed" clearly refers to a single incident that happened on that day.  The use of "if" is incorrect (unless an Americanism I'm unfamiliar with).  I read it as,

"Had a person today who wanted the pin removed even [though] it was only 10 yards away. " 

 

Even if

[Colin L]

11 hours ago, antip said:

I, too, read it as a repeating occurrence. Of course, I don't speak Scottish.

I do speak Scots, to varying degrees of broadness depending on the situation including expressions  like "och aye".  

 

But these days I too often have to question my ability to read English. 

[North Butte]

Among the 20 or so guys who I may end up playing with on any given day, I think there are three of us who care at all whether the flagstick is in or out. And those three all like to pull it when they're within a few feet of the hole (but not off the green, that's just silly). The rest of us leave it in unless one of those guys want to pull it then we leave it out. 

 

That said, I frequently observe groups playing ahead of us (or ahead of me on my solo round) who will pull the stick for one guy, put it back in for another guy, then pull it again. I mean I'm all for letting people do their own thing and have fun in their own way but c'mon. What a silly little dance. 

[Hickory4ever]

I personally like the pin out on the putting green or a short chip, some of my friends like it in. It is not a problem because we are very fast players and don’t waste any time over the ball. The only time it would annoy me is if the person was agonizingly slow.

 

I occasionally play with players that have to line up their ball in a way described in one of the earlier posts. It is tedious and annoying and has nothing to do with whether the pin is in or out. 

[North Butte]

8 minutes ago, Hickory4ever said:

I occasionally play with players that have to line up their ball in a way described in one of the earlier posts. It is tedious and annoying and has nothing to do with whether the pin is in or out. 

The alignment line thing never really caught on in my circle of frequent playing companions. I think at its peak there were maybe 4-5 guys (out of 20+) at least tried it for a little while. Only one of them stuck to it more than a couple months and even he seems to have quit with it the last couple times I've gotten paired up with him. 

 

I know lots of people claim they don't waste any time fiddling with the mark but I'm not buying it. If you are you aiming alignment lines on the ball in the same time it takes to simply replace the ball and hit your putt then you're not really lining it up. Nobody is going to plop the ball down lined up exactly right the first time, every time, with no fiddling or fine tuning. It's not possible. 

 

Of the three silly trends in putting over the last few years, the "Aimpoint" holding up fingers thing was the shortest lived. Nobody in my group has done that for 2-3 years now and even other people I see playing out on the course have dropped it nowadays. The alignment line is still somewhat popular but has passed its peak IMO. The one that's here to stay, I fear, is the manhole cover sized poker chips to mark your ball. At least nowadays it seems like most poeple also keep a dime or penny in their pocket to substitute for the poker chip when it's near someone's line. 

[Mr. Bean]

27 minutes ago, North Butte said:

The one that's here to stay, I fear, is the manhole cover sized poker chips to mark your ball. At least nowadays it seems like most poeple also keep a dime or penny in their pocket to substitute for the poker chip when it's near someone's line. 

 

I have used a poker chip more than 20 years now and I am not quitting. It is easy to set down, easy to pick up, hard to lose, it does not wear my pocket through and I see it easily on the green even from a distance. Anytime it is on someone's line of play I putt out first or move it sideways. Never been a problem.

[Hickory4ever]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I have used a poker chip more than 20 years now and I am not quitting. It is easy to set down, easy to pick up, hard to lose, it does not wear my pocket through and I see it easily on the green even from a distance. Anytime it is on someone's line of play I putt out first or move it sideways. Never been a problem.

I like the larger size for the same reason. The only real annoyance for me is anything that results in slow play. 

[llewol007]

Sounds funny to me not from the rules standpoint but from the player trying to execute the shot. If he doesn’t hole it, I would feel embarrassed and would probably refrain from asking other in the group to pull the flag stick. On the green is fine and even chipping is okay. 10 yards off the green and probably have a small miniscule chance to make it and asking to pull it is way too much. If he asks again, bet em some money if he makes it versus not making it in. I’m pretty sure he will stop asking.

[Mudguard]

On 11/28/2022 at 3:31 AM, Hickory4ever said:

I like the larger size for the same reason. The only real annoyance for me is anything that results in slow play. 

The one I use has a smaller magnetised one inside it. Do I'll use that if I'm close to the hole.

 

As to the OP, having the pin out for chips has died out for us. We normally yank the pin once everyone is inside twenty feet. Only once have we played with someone who wanted it in for each putt. So we simply let them go first and finish out, which was a little annoying in a medal.

 

[Dpavs]

On 11/27/2022 at 12:36 AM, Mr. Bean said:

 

Even if

 

That would be my reading also Bean. "Even if" equating to regardless of some thing, situation, condition, etc.

My understanding from the OP's post would be that the person wanted the flag removed all the time when they were on the green or anywhere within a 10 yard perimeter around it.

 

Also, I agree as others have indicated, that person would be very annoying to play with!

[Mr. Bean]

47 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

Only once have we played with someone who wanted it in for each putt. 

 

There is one of those guys at my club as well. Very nice guy but I do not like to play with him for two reasons and that is one of them.

 

It is amazing how some people still believe that keeping the pin in gives an advantage while it is the opposite. In casual play I do not mind keeping the pin in but if I am trying to make a score I have it removed for all putts except very long ones.