Following the Rules Price Around $250'ish

[DaveLeeNC]

WIth a DOB of 1949 I am experiencing serious distance loss/compression and it has occurred to me that replacing my 3w and 5w with a 4w might be a good move. And that leaves me with 13 clubs so now what? 

 

If I lived close to my brother near Dallas, Tx it is a no brainer - add a low loft driver to my bag (I currently play a 10.5* Ping G410 maxed out at 12*). This would be for drives into the wind. Here in NC winds are more "normal" so that move is less useful (vs. north Texas) but not useless either. 

 

So buying another Ping G410 on the used market (and adding a shaft to match my current shaft) would still be an option. But so is just carrying 13 clubs and dialing up/down the loft (on the course). Nothing to buy, matching feel for sure, and it can't take more than 10 seconds to switch the loft between min and max (9* and 12*). Of course this is not anywhere close to legal. While I don't compete anywhere anymore (even at the club level) I do keep a handicap that is used in my totally informal 'Friday Golf Play'.  They would not care although I would ask first. 

 

I honestly don't know what I think about this (and maybe the second driver is not the right choice anyway - at least around here). But it feels like I am 'cheating somebody here' even though I am not sure exactly who that is. I guess the intergrity of the WHS is the answer. Thoughts?

 

dave

 

 

[North Butte]

The groups I usually play with would not bat an eye at someone doing that. Either during our informal daily roll-up games or during other rounds they post for handicaps. 

 

A couple times over the years someone has played with illegal grooves or 15 clubs or something along those lines and nobody objected at all. 

[rogolf]

The groups that I play in would definitely object to intentionally breaking the Rules, and anyone doing so consistently would be talked to and asked to stop. We play team games for $5 each per round, so not high stakes, just value the integrity of the game and handicaps.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

So buying another Ping G410 on the used market (and adding a shaft to match my current shaft) would still be an option. But so is just carrying 13 clubs and dialing up/down the loft (on the course). Nothing to buy, matching feel for sure, and it can't take more than 10 seconds to switch the loft between min and max (9* and 12*). Of course this is not anywhere close to legal. While I don't compete anywhere anymore (even at the club level) I do keep a handicap that is used in my totally informal 'Friday Golf Play'.  They would not care although I would ask first. 

 

 

Are you seriously suggesting that you would play handicap rounds adjusting your driver as you play? Well, my friend, those rounds would not be eligible as the penalty for breach of R4.1a (adjusting a club during a round) is disqualification.

[DaveLeeNC]

I assume that this is abundantly clear but there is no question here regarding the legality of adjusting an adjustable driver during a round (even if it is your only club). 

 

How others might act is this situation is a question (and in my mind mind there may well be more than just 'how my playing partners feel here' at play). 

 

dave

[Colin L]

49 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

I assume that this is abundantly clear but there is no question here regarding the legality of adjusting an adjustable driver during a round (even if it is your only club). 

 

How others might act is this situation is a question (and in my mind mind there may well be more than just 'how my playing partners feel here' at play). 

 

dave

I doubt the wisdom of coming on to a rules forum like this looking for endorsement of a deliberate and serious breach of the rules.  You're likely to get some quite stuffy answers.

[MaineMariner]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Are you seriously suggesting that you would play handicap rounds adjusting your driver as you play? Well, my friend, those rounds would not be eligible as the penalty for breach of R4.1a (adjusting a club during a round) is disqualification.

 

He's suggesting that instead of carrying 14 clubs with one being a 9 degree driver and one being an identical driver that's a 12 degree head, he simply carries 13 clubs, one of which is a driver that he can switch between 9 and 12 degrees. So essentially acting as two clubs.

 

It's just a practical, money saving solution. Obviously, by the letter of the law it's a breach of the rules, but so long as he just switched between two lofts, it would still act as a 14-club bag. I would roll my eyes at anyone who gave him grief over this in non-tournament golf.

Edited November 28, 2022 by MaineMariner

[Newby]

2 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

But so is just carrying 13 clubs and dialing up/down the loft (on the course). Nothing to buy, matching feel for sure, and it can't take more than 10 seconds to switch the loft between min and max (9* and 12*). Of course this is not anywhere close to legal. Thoughts?

 

dave

 

 

I wonder why you thought of posting this on a Rules forum when you clearly know it is a breach.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Newby

[Mr. Bean]

4 minutes ago, MaineMariner said:

 

He's suggesting that instead of carrying 14 clubs with one being a 9 degree driver and one being an identical driver that's a 12 degree head, he simply carries 13 clubs, one of which is a driver that he can switch between 9 and 12 degrees. So essentially acting as two clubs.

 

It's just a practical, money saving solution. Obviously, by the letter of the law it's a breach of the rules, but so long as he just switched between two lofts, it would still act as a 14-club bag. I would roll my eyes at anyone who gave him grief over this in non-tournament golf.

 

What you play with on other than handicap or competitive rounds is your own business but handicap rounds are supposed to be played according to the Rules of Golf. 

[DaveLeeNC]

8 minutes ago, Newby said:

I wonder why you thought of posting this on a Rules forum when you clearly know it is a breach.

 

Good question, actually. The answer is mostly because this is where folks will generally think before they post. And obviously I will get a number of "just follow the rules" responses - that is OK. 

 

dave

[North Butte]

This subforum is actually called "Rules of Golf and Etiquette". Therefore, I think Dave's question regarding how people would feel or react if he violated the letter (but not the spirit) of that Rule in his particular way is in exactly the right subforum. 

[Newby]

3 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

Good question, actually. The answer is mostly because this is where folks will generally think before they post. And obviously I will get a number of "just follow the rules" responses - that is OK. 

 

"You said " I do keep a handicap that is used in my totally informal 'Friday Golf Play'. "

 

dave

Do the others play with officially maintained WHS handicaps? Are these scores (yours and others) being returned for WHS handicapping purposes.

 

If not, it doesn't really matter what you do but this is the wrong forum in which to raise it.

However, it seems like a reasonable proposition as long as no legitimate WHS handicaps are involved.

[Jeff58]

The threads on your driver are aluminum and not intended or capable of a high duty cycle like you’re proposing. They will strip.

Optimal launch characteristics are singular. The idea that you can find two significantly different configurations on a single head/shaft that are anywhere near Optimal is unlikely at best.

 

If I was grouped with someone who wanted to adjust their driver on every hole, I’d assume that they had no idea what they were doing gear heads of the highest order and ensure that I don’t play with them again. Just imo.

[Krt22]

Minus it being against the rules, I don't think there is much to gain by adjusting the loft. You are used to playing with the face a bit shut in the higher loft setting, so you will now be playing it wide open. You will likely leave the face open and negate the lower loft setting

[Hammer_Hands]

1 hour ago, MaineMariner said:

I would roll my eyes at anyone who gave him grief over this in non-tournament golf.

Agreed 100

[North Butte]

1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

Minus it being against the rules, I don't think there is much to gain by adjusting the loft. You are used to playing with the face a bit shut in the higher loft setting, so you will now be playing it wide open. You will likely leave the face open and negate the lower loft setting

I completely agree. 

 

In my own experience, I've never had an adjustable driver that I got decent results with in multiple settings. I might have to experiment a bit to find a setting that works but once I do, if I try it in other settings it either doesn't line up correctly to my eye or it is much more inconsisent.

 

So I expect if Dave does this as an experiment, he'll be back to his usual favored setting after a few rounds.

Edited November 28, 2022 by North Butte

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

This subforum is actually called "Rules of Golf and Etiquette". Therefore, I think Dave's question regarding how people would feel or react if he violated the letter (but not the spirit) of that Rule in his particular way is in exactly the right subforum. 

 

So you say that Dave is actually asking if he may be in breach of this particular Rule because it is not against the spirit of that Rule as he is only using two different setups. Ok, but what if he accidentally set his club in 10 degrees? Would that be a breach of maximum of 14 clubs (2 penalty strokes) or changing the playing characteristics of a club (DQ)? And if the former, how would he declare that particular setup out of play?

 

I once had an adjustable club with 14 different setups, sort of a travelling club. The entire bag of clubs in one club. As that club had no more than 14 different setups should that be allowed as the only club? That is, would that be within the spirit of the Rules in your opinion?

[Greenie]

I'll leave the rules breach to the rules people here.

 

I'm more of a pace of play guy. From that standpoint I wouldn't like it if I was playing with you and I had to wait every time for you to adjust your driver for certain shots. 

 

When I experiment, if I don't go to the range, I'll go out as a single on a slow day to experiment. I did this last yr. fine tuning my new driver I had bought. I certainly didn't post my score and I made sure not to hold anyone up while trying the different settings.

 

Experimenting is one thing but to add you adjusting your driver as part of your regular game...NO

[TwistedSister]

I delofted my 9 iron and PW and added another GW at 48*.  Carry 52,56, and 61 also. 

[DaveLeeNC]

1 hour ago, Jeff58 said:

The threads on your driver are aluminum and not intended or capable of a high duty cycle like you’re proposing. They will strip.

Optimal launch characteristics are singular. The idea that you can find two significantly different configurations on a single head/shaft that are anywhere near Optimal is unlikely at best.

 

That is an interesting point (risk to threads) that I had not considered. Thanks for that. 

 

But you have made a HUGE leap of assumptions here regarding my purpose. IMHO a much lower loft into the wind is a better loft for my swing under those conditions (hence my reference to the windy conditions in Texas). Additionally there are a couple holes that I play were a super low/running shot is the shot of choice (for me on those holes). I like hitting that shot and it is easier with a lower loft that is just plain wrong under normal conditions. 

 

dave

[Colin L]

 

32 minutes ago, TwistedSister said:

I delofted my 9 iron and PW and added another GW at 48*.  Carry 52,56, and 61 also. 

After "delofting" these two clubs, are you sure they are still conforming?

[DaveLeeNC]

2 hours ago, Newby said:

Do the others play with officially maintained WHS handicaps? Are these scores (yours and others) being returned for WHS handicapping purposes.

 

If not, it doesn't really matter what you do but this is the wrong forum in which to raise it.

However, it seems like a reasonable proposition as long as no legitimate WHS handicaps are involved.

 

We all keep normal handicaps. We'll just have to agree to disagree on your point #2. 

 

dave

[DaveLeeNC]

My perspective here seems a bit different than anyone elses. In my mind I will no longer "have a handicap". I will have a number that I can use on Fridays and I will have the same gauge of the "state of my game" that I had before. But I will no longer be able to (for example) play in any club events (which all pretty much all require handicaps). It has been about 7 years since I did that, so not much of a loss. 

 

I won't be polluting the system with 'bad data' (like PCC adjustments). The numbers will be as accurate as they were before.  

 

So what I am doing is using the system for my own convenience kind of for a purpose for which it was not intended (giving me my personal use number rather than a real handicap number). It is more like abuse of the system and more than just whether or not scores are valid. It is a different question (admittedly not a big deal). 

 

dave

[DaveLeeNC]

19 minutes ago, Colin L said:

After "delofting" these two clubs, are you sure they are still conforming?

 

Altering lofts is pretty standard stuff out there. I have never heard anyone question conformance regarding that. How would that happen for the case of clubs in the GW/PW/9i range?

 

dave

[Abh159]

@DaveLeeNC - Regardless of how you feel about the rules, you should keep in mind what @Krt22 mentioned in their post.

 

By adjusting the club you aren't just simply changing the loft. You're also altering the angle of the club face. It's not as simple as "If I adjust it down I'll hit the same shot but lower". That's not really how it works.

 

Pay attention to what good golfers do. They aren't constantly fiddling with their club settings prior to each round. They find the setting that works best for them, and then keep that setting regardless of conditions because they know it will provide consistent results.

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Abh159

[jomatty]

Get a 7 wood to go with your new 4 wood and forget all about this adjusting of the driver during play.  If the wind is really blowing, and you think it helps, then turn it down before the first hole.  But you are changing more than the loft.  The face angle and lie also changes and the best thing to do, most likely, is leave it alone at a setting that works well for you.  Adjusting it multiple times throughout the round should not be a consideration for the reasons others have pointed out.

[betarhoalphadelta]

3 hours ago, Jeff58 said:

The threads on your driver are aluminum and not intended or capable of a high duty cycle like you’re proposing. They will strip.

 

 

1 hour ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

That is an interesting point (risk to threads) that I had not considered. Thanks for that. 

 

 

Yeah, I hadn't thought of it either, so thanks to @Jeff58. 

 

IMHO this should put the kibosh on the entire idea. You're trying to avoid having two drivers and in short order you'll have zero drivers. 

[bladehunter]

I would add that learning a very low teed shot with driver isn’t very hard , and will produce the low runner you want.  Just tee it an inch or less up , normal swing.  It will come out low. 
 

 

[nsxguy]

Not surprised at all that some, like KRT, ABH, and Blade, have the right idea.

 

Tee the ball a bit lower and make the same swing.

 

But if you MUST experiment, find a launch monitor and try the 2 different lofts and see the results. I'm betting they're not different enough to go through these gyrations.

 

If you've only got 13, add a wedge. You're probably playing shorter courses now and that additional wedge will be way more useful than 5 yards on a drive.

[North Butte]

37 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

Not surprised at all that some, like KRT, ABH, and Blade, have the right idea.

 

Tee the ball a bit lower and make the same swing.

 

But if you MUST experiment, find a launch monitor and try the 2 different lofts and see the results. I'm betting they're not different enough to go through these gyrations.

 

If you've only got 13, add a wedge. You're probably playing shorter courses now and that additional wedge will be way more useful than 5 yards on a drive.

And this being a Rules subforum I might point out there is no Rule against playing with 13 clubs. Just sayin'...