Jump to content

Is inability to play off of matts a 'real thing' or just a lame excuse?


bulls9999
 Share

Recommended Posts

My club put in matts at the back of the driving range.  When it's extremely wet or they re-seed the range they ask players to use the matts.  Otherwise tee areas are set up forward of the matts on the grass.

 

But I can't hit off those dange matts.  The only thing I can think of is I'm a 'digger' and my club doesn't 'dig' on a matt.  If I move in front of the matt onto the grass, I'm fine.  Move me back onto the matt, and I can't hit a shot.  Am I just imagining this or do others have the same problem?

GHIN Index 12.9
LH Epic Flash Driver-LH, 10.5*, Project X EvenFlow Riptide 50 (Light)
LH Callaway Rogue 5-wood (18*), 7-wood (20*); Aldila Synergy 60-Reg
LH Callaway Rogue ST Pro 4-AW, Recoil Dart 75 F3
LH Cleveland RTX 50*, 54*, 58*
LH Odyssey Double Wide Stroke Lab Putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It really is not a lot different than hitting off hard pan, just a tad softer. No problem.

TXG Custom King Cobra F9 9.5* , Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
TXG Custom King Cobra F9 14.5*, Accra FX 140 2.0 M3
TXG Custom Cobra King Ltd. 5-wood 18*, Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
TXG Custom T. Made SIM Max 7-wood 21*, Accra FX 140 2.0 M2
T.Made R7 CGB Max 4-iron, REAX 55 S
TXG Custom Mizuno JPX 919 Hot Metal 6-pw, 1* up, 1* strong, Recoil E460 R + 1/2"
TXG Custom Mizuno T20, 49/06, 59/06, Nippon 950H Neo

Cleveland RTX4 Raw 56*, Tour Issue DG S400
TXG Custom King Cobra Nova, 25 gram weights, Garsen non-taper grip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mental thing.

 

But, as a fellow digger (AoA is -7 with 7i) hitting off mats that are on concrete is just not my thing. I have a mat at home and it's on a rubber mat. I had it on a thin piece of plywood for a few weeks. 

 

Concrete worse than plywood worse than rubber mat.

 

A big reason I'm now practicing all long game at home is because the facility I go to put mats in and I know the initial move is a couple days a week and that quickly goes to almost every day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 I hate hitting off mats. 

I avoid them at all costs. I don't feel I get any useful ball flight info when I hit off mats.

Elbow and wrist pain.

  • Like 2

Rogue ST Max LS Oban Devotion 6/04 10.5, -1* @45.25" 

SIM2Max 3HL Aldila NV 75 R
Ping G410 19*,  22* & 26* Riptide CB 80 5.5
'21 Apex 6-GW SF fc90 f3  Or Cobra Forged Tec Black 6-GW, SF i95cw R   
TM HiToe 3 54/10
Mack Daddy PM 2.0 58/12

Bettinardi Innovai Rev 6.0  33” 

 E.R.C. Soft TT/ Chrome Soft TT / TM Tour Response '20

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mats can be different but not for ball contact reasons (fat shots are better, but ball first contact means mat vs grass is irrelevant).
 

My issues with many driving range mats is they tend to move/shift under my feet with longer clubs (4 iron up). 

Rogue ST Max LS (8.0), Tensei CK Pro White 70TX 

SEARCHING......Tensei CK Pro White 70TX

TSi2 (18, B1), Tensei AV Raw White 85TX

U85 (22), PX 6.5

i210 (5-UW), X100

Glide 3.0 (54.12SS, 60.06TS), X100 (8 iron shafts)

Heppler Armlock (cut down to 32.5"), SS Wristlock

Srixon Z-Star XV

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many of the mats at my course don't show wear but when I try to hit an iron off the mat by placing a ball next to the white rubber tee it rolls to the center of the mat.  Apparently, over time, the mat has sunk in the center until it's conical shaped, like a bowl.

3.0 GHIN Index - trending down

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I shank the ball off mats often, but never off of grass (also a digger).  I now use a rubber tee that I've cut down to elevate the ball ever so slightly above the mat and it's helped a lot.

  • Like 1

Ping G425 Max 10.5* - Ping Tour 65x - 43.75 in.
Ping G425 Max 17.5* 5 wood - Ping Tour 75s - 41.50 in.

Cleveland Launcher UHX Utility 20* 4 iron - UST Recoil 95 Stiff
Cleveland 588 CB 4-PW - DG S300
Cleveland RTX 50*
Cleveland RTX-3 54*
Cleveland RTX-3 58*
Evnroll ER7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a digger myself, mats make it deceiving to a solid contact since you won’t chunk a shot as on regular turf. So it could be just a mind trick. 

Cobra LTD 9* TP6HD
Cobra Big Tour 14.5* TP7HD 

Cobra F6 Baffler 19* Kiyoshi Purple

Wilson Staff Staff Blades 3-PW Recoil I95 stiff 

Wilson PMP 52/56 Raw

Titliest SquareBack LA 135 

Vice Pro+ Lime Green Goodness

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem hitting off mats, but it's definitely a different experience than hitting off turf. Lots of things could play some mind tricks on you if you're used to hitting off turf. Not sure how helpful this might be to know but I can definitely understand the predicament. It's like how a lot of folks have a lot of trouble hitting indoors on a simulator if they perceive the ceiling to be too low, even if they know for a fact they won't hit it. 

 

- Mats don't let your feet dig in in exactly the same way as turf. Might be throwing off your feeling of traction throughout the swing, or incrementally changing the distance you think you are from the ball. Knowing this might help you adjust for it

- With a mat you can see the edges in your peripheral vision and you may be inadvertently swinging along a line parallel to the mat rather than along your intended target line, especially with longer clubs. Alignment sticks help me with this 

- Since you're a digger you might be anticipating painful feedback and your body is attempting to alter your low point to avoid it 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, golf is played off grass, but practice is another subject.  NO such thing as inability to hit off mats, so "lame excuse."  

 

When I took up golf, my first five years of practice, I spent 30% off turf, and 70% hitting off mats; that was 1100-1400 balls per week.  If mats were so bad, there's no way I would have reached 8 index in under 4yrs, and 2 index a few years later.

 

Mats are NOT taboo, nor do mats force a dastardly swing change.  All it does is motivate a flatter swing plane, so you don't jar your teeth loose or end up with tennis elbow.  Learning how to flatten your swing plane on command, can be beneficial.

Edited by Pepperturbo
  • Like 1
  • Titleist TSR2 10' Velocore Blue TR 6 series S
  • Titleist TSR2 15' Velocore Red 6 series S
  • Titleist T200 2i & 4i  MCA-Tensei AV Blue S
  • Titleist T100s 5i-W MCA-Tensei AV Blue S
  • SM9 F-52/12, MCA-MMT 105 sw
  • SM9 M-58/8, MCA-MMT 105 sw
  • SC CA Monterey
  • DASH-ProV1x & AVX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, ac6 said:

Mats don't let your feet dig in in exactly the same way as turf. Might be throwing off your feeling of traction throughout the swing...

 

Oftentimes, if I'm just going to the range (with mats), I'll be tempted to wear my regular shoes.  But I don't.  For a good practice session, and to adhere to the mats, I still wear my golf shoes with soft spikes.

3.0 GHIN Index - trending down

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Fortunately for me it's seldom an issue because I'm not a range rat but I refuse to hit off mats. Nothing like real golf and it beats up my clubs and my hands. I'll take a hard pass, no thanks. 

 

Personally I do not consider myself a range rat, more of a small mouse.  A guy needs to practice on occasion, and if mats are all that's available, so be it.

3.0 GHIN Index - trending down

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Personally I do not consider myself a range rat, more of a small mouse.  A guy needs to practice on occasion, and if mats are all that's available, so be it.

I don’t ever need that sort of practice. Most of the drills I do (which isnt often) are in front of a mirror or video camera, isolated mechanics not full swings. Everything else is taken care of playing one or two solo practice rounds a week on the course. 
 

honestly the typical driving range with sandy turf and thin grass is no more fun to hit off of than mats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have never had issues with mats. Until the time I tried a Country Club Elite mat which grabs my irons since I had a very steep downswing and I was a digger before. It was too punishing for a mat, even more punishing that real grass. I was forced to change my swing and shallow it to be able to use the CCE mat. I was injured at first but after the swing changes I was fine and was never injured. 

 

My buddies on the other hand, never had any issues with any mat, be it the CCE or the regular mats at the range. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Yes, golf is played off grass, but practice is another subject.  NO such thing as inability to hit off mats, so "lame excuse."  

 

When I took up golf, my first five years of practice, I spent 30% off turf, and 70% hitting off mats; that was 1100-1400 balls per week.  If mats were so bad, there's no way I would have reached 8 index in under 4yrs, and 2 index a few years later.

 

Mats are NOT taboo, nor do mats force a dastardly swing change.  All it does is motivate a flatter swing plane, so you don't jar your teeth loose or end up with tennis elbow.  Learning how to flatten your swing plane on command, can be beneficial.

You are lucky to have not developed injuries  . Many who hit that many balls off of mats develop injuries , some  of which are chronic . Hitting  off of mats placed on hard surfaces creates a jarring effect that it transmitted to the hands/wrists , elbows and shoulders . 
And  feedback from hitting balls off of mats is completely different than hitting off of grass. 

Trackman has done a study that has indicated that balls hit off of mats have less back spin  than those hit off of grass; less backspin results in balls that fly longer . If this study is true , there are ramifications for clubfitting , which almost always are done with mats

Edited by golfarb1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matts are easier to hit off of than grass. Unless we are talking pristine grass.

 

A matt is like having a perfect lie every time. And the club will bounce off the matt, hiding imperfect strikes.

 

I don't think any pro would have trouble hitting off mats. If you do, it's a mental or swing issue.

 

However, feedback from mats is not reliable. The ball flies further and straighter.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've heard this before. Hence my friend doesn't warm up off the mats before a round. He can't seem to hit off mats, but on course he's pretty solid. He's not a digger, but a sweeper.

 

I for one, I've hit off mats for almost 3 decades. I rarely hit off grass unless I visit a relative at his CC where they have the nicest grass range in town.

anyway, I'm a digger and always have been, but I never injured my joints hitting off mats. I have a set up in my garage and I hit off mats strictly for the last 5 - 6 years, and once in a while I can't hit balls off of it. But it's not the mats fault.

Edited by PoeKingShankspeare
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

You are lucky to have not developed injuries  . Many who hit that many balls off of mats develop injuries , some  of which are chronic . Hitting  off of mats placed on hard surfaces creates a jarring effect that it transmitted to the hands/wrists , elbows and shoulders . 
And  feedback from hitting balls off of mats is completely different than hitting off of grass. 

Trackman has done a study that has indicated that balls hit off of mats have less back spin  than those hit off of grass; less backspin results in balls that fly longer . If this study is true , there are ramifications for clubfitting , which almost always are done with mats

You assume incorrectly.  I have coped with serious Osteoarthritis in hands, wrists, hips and knees for over ten years.  I just don't let the consequences of aging dictate what I can and cannot do.  Having said that, when I took up golf at 40yrs old, 70% of my practice regime of 1100-1400 balls per week was off mats, (some hideous) balance off turf, and I reached 2 index in under six years. 

 

If that study was really true for all golfers, I would not have achieved 2 index in 6yrs because backspin would have inhibited progress.  Furthermore, those percentages were the result of more mats at ranges and green grass than grass practice facilities. 

 

Also, I do NOT pay attention to most study's.  Reason being, whoever pays for the study, likely exercises their bias in the study.  Example: When a company like Vokey does a study using their heads against forged heads, Vokey expects the study to substantiate the reason they use certain materials.  How do they do that?  Bringing in a variety of people to use both products to see if they can tell the difference. 

 

Over forty years as CEO, I signed checks for outside organizations to conduct target studies for us.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

 

Edited by Pepperturbo
  • Titleist TSR2 10' Velocore Blue TR 6 series S
  • Titleist TSR2 15' Velocore Red 6 series S
  • Titleist T200 2i & 4i  MCA-Tensei AV Blue S
  • Titleist T100s 5i-W MCA-Tensei AV Blue S
  • SM9 F-52/12, MCA-MMT 105 sw
  • SM9 M-58/8, MCA-MMT 105 sw
  • SC CA Monterey
  • DASH-ProV1x & AVX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

You assume incorrectly.  I have coped with serious Osteoarthritis in hands, wrists, hips and knees for over ten years.  I just don't let the consequences of aging dictate what I can and cannot do.  Having said that, when I took up golf at 40yrs old, 70% of my practice regime of 1100-1400 balls per week was off mats, (some hideous) balance off turf, and I reached 2 index in under six years. 

 

If that study was really true for all golfers, I would not have achieved 2 index in 6yrs because backspin would have inhibited progress.  Furthermore, those percentages were the result of more mats at ranges and green grass than grass practice facilities. 

 

Also, I do NOT pay attention to most study's.  Reason being, whoever pays for the study, likely exercises their bias in the study.  Example: When a company like Vokey does a study using their heads against forged heads, Vokey expects the study to substantiate the reason they use certain materials.  How do they do that?  Bringing in a variety of people to use both products to see if they can tell the difference. 

 

Over forty years as CEO, I signed checks for outside organizations to conduct target studies for us.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

 

You seem to be able to play at a high level despite your osteoarthritis . I can not determine whether you are stating that  hitting off of mats caused/ exacerbated your osteoarthritis . 

My point is two fold  .
Hitting off of mats increases the risks of injuries relative to hitting off of grass .

Mats gives different  and inferior feedback than grass  and can result in golfers developing bad habits , which they would not have developed if they hit off of grass .
 

I do not know whether  the Trackman study can be replicated , but if is true than it does  have implications for clubfitting .

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lame excuse. You (the proverbial you, not the OP in particular) know when you hit it fat and when you don't, be honest with yourself. Everyone learns to play on mats, you're not an exception. Moreover, it's better to mess around on mats because you don't have to worry about ruining the turf and giving the range staff extra work / hindering the recovery of the grass.

 

It's hilarious because I have two buddies who can't break 100 who complain about mats. I always roast them and say the same thing as above. I mean you really have to be more resilient than that to play this game decently. 

 

However I do really hate bad mats. I'll spend a lot of time finding exactly the mat I want at a range, and the exact spot of turf I want to hit off of on that mat. 

Edited by geesecougar2
  • Like 1

TSi3 9* RDX Smoke Black 6.5
M5 15* Kuro Kago Silver 75x
Rescue 11 18* Diamana D+ 90x
P790 4 S400
MP-20 MMC 5-PW S400
Vokey SM6 Black 52/56/60 S400
Newport Mil-Spec 350g / Byron 006 / Laguna Pro Platinum / White Hot RX #7 / Stroke Lab Double Wide Flowneck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, golfarb1 said:

You seem to be able to play at a high level despite your osteoarthritis . I can not determine whether you are stating that  hitting off of mats caused/ exacerbated your osteoarthritis . 

My point is two fold  .
Hitting off of mats increases the risks of injuries relative to hitting off of grass .

Mats gives different  and inferior feedback than grass  and can result in golfers developing bad habits , which they would not have developed if they hit off of grass .
 

I do not know whether  the Trackman study can be replicated , but if is true than it does  have implications for clubfitting .

 

 

Yes, despite...  Osteoarthritis was diagnosed back in the 90s, and been slowly worsening over the years.  Hitting off mats has not worsened; the condition itself, worsens over time.  Fortunately, I have high-pain-tolerance.

 

It’s remarkable how people say mats cause this or that, yet, mats have not caused those issues for me; I think it's bias, agenda or excuse driven.  Here's what's important, I use the same shallow swing characteristics hitting off mats as playing tight/firm conditions in TX; I don't take a divot, just a surface scrap.

 

I still hit down on the ball, but pick it and generate a lot of spin and sweep.  The problem I see is, people don't learn how to create spin, control spin, distance or trajectory control; they look to the clubhead and or ball for those, and are disappointed when it doesn't happen.

 

 

 

 

 

  • Titleist TSR2 10' Velocore Blue TR 6 series S
  • Titleist TSR2 15' Velocore Red 6 series S
  • Titleist T200 2i & 4i  MCA-Tensei AV Blue S
  • Titleist T100s 5i-W MCA-Tensei AV Blue S
  • SM9 F-52/12, MCA-MMT 105 sw
  • SM9 M-58/8, MCA-MMT 105 sw
  • SC CA Monterey
  • DASH-ProV1x & AVX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2023 Farmers Insurance Open - Discussion and Links to all photos
      Please put any questions or Comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
       
      2023 Farmers Insurance Open - Monday #1
      2023 Farmers Insurance Open - Monday #2
      2023 Farmers Insurance Open - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Justin Thomas - WITB - 2023 Farmers Insurance Open
      Will Zalatoris - WITB - 2023 Farmers Insurance Open
      Michael Herrera - WITB - 2023 Farmers Insurance Open
      Michael Block - SoCal PGA Section Champ - WITB - 2023 Farmers Insurance Open
      Carl Yuan - WITB - 2023 Farmers Insurance Open
      Joey Vrzich - WITB - 2023 Farmers Insurance Open
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Taylor-Made putters - 2023 Farmers Insurance Open
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 3 replies
    • 2023 The American Express - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comment here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2023 The American Express - Monday #1
      2023 The American Express - Monday #2
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2023 The American Express
      Doug Ghim - WITB - 2023 The American Express
      Sam Burns - WITB - 2023 The American Express
      Caleb Surratt - WITB - 2023 The American Express
      Aaron Wise - WITB - 2023 The American Express
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
       
      New Cameron putter - 2023 The American Express
      Cameron putters - - 2023 The American Express
      New Bettinardi prototype putters - 2023 The American Express
      New L.A.B. Golf LINK.1 putter - 2023 The American Express
      New Evnroll putters - 2023 The American Express
      Jimmy Walker testing the Axis prototype putter - 2023 The American Express
      Cameron CT Baller Boy covers - 2023 The American Express
      Richy Werenski's Cameron Timeless putter - 2023 The American Express
      Graphite Design - CQ 6 & CQ 7 shafts - 2023 The American Express
      Titleist TRS hybrids - 2023 The American Express
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 11 replies
    • In-hand photos of 2023 TaylorMade Stealth 2 Plus, Stealth 2, Stealth 2 HD drivers + fairways woods
      Check out our front page launch stories here and here. 
       
      What you need to know: For the first time, carbon is the most prevalent material by volume in a TaylorMade driver, and more carbon equals better performance, says the company. Last year, TaylorMade debuted a 60X Carbon Twist Face. With TaylorMade Stealth 2, engineers are bringing carbon to more of the golf club — and unveiling a new-and-improved Carbon Twist Face in the process. Stealth 2 Plus (low spin, most workable) Stealth 2, and Stealth 2 HD (draw bias, high launch, most forgiving) drivers make up the Stealth 2 family.
       
      Stealth 2 


       
      Stealth 2 Plus


       
      Stealth 2 HD



       
      What you need to know: Breakthrough movable weight technologies and versatile designs are the hallmarks of the 2023 TaylorMade Stealth 2 fairway woods. Stealth 2 Plus is branded as “three fairway woods in one” owing to the unique performance characteristics afforded by the 50-gram sole weight. Stealth 2 features a slightly lower profile 3D carbon crown than Stealth. This moves CG down and away from the toe with more weight in the rear of the club for higher launch and MOI. Ultra-high MOI Stealth 2 HD features an oversized 200cc head and low-profile sole, creating an easy-to-hit, draw-biased club.
       
      Stealth 2 fairway


       
      Stealth 2 Plus fairway


       
       


       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 47 replies
    • 2023 Sentry Tournament of Champions - Discussion
      Please put any equipment questions or comments here
       
      More albums will be added tomorrow
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2023 Sentry Tournament of Champions at Kapalua – Tues. Pt. 1
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Jon Rahm mini WITB (w/ new Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond driver and fairway woods) – 2023 Sentry Tournament of Champions
      Ryan Brehm WITB – 2023 Sentry Tournament of Champions
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      SuperStroke Limited Edition Hawaii Collection covers and grips – 2023 Sentry Tournament of Champions
      Collin Morikawa's new TaylorMade Stealth 2 Plus driver and 3 wood – 2023 Sentry Tournament of Champions
      Xander Schauffele's new Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond driver – 2023 Sentry Tournament of Champions
      Xander Schauffele's Odyssey Toulon "XS Proto" mallet putter – 2023 Sentry Tournament of Champions
      New Odyssey White Hot Versa and Tri-Hot 5K putters – 2023 Sentry Tournament of Champions
      Sungjae Im's Scotty Cameron Tourtype F-5 proto putter (with new SuperStroke Zenergy 1.0 PT grip) – 2023 Sentry Tournament of Champions
      Scottie Scheffler's new TaylorMade Stealth 2 Plus driver and Stealth 2 fairway wood – 2023 Sentry Tournament of Champions
       
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 82 replies
    • 2022 PNC Championship - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2022 PNC Championship - Thursday
      2022 PNC Championship - Friday #1
      2022 PNC Championship - Friday #2
       
       
       
      WITB Albums 
       
      Nelly Korda - WITB - 2022 PNC Championship
      John Daly, II - WITB - 2022 PNC Championship
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2022 PNC Championship
      Qass Singh - WITB - 2022 PNC Championship
      VJ Singh - WITB - 2022 PNC Championship
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Tiger & Charlie - 2022 PNC Championship - #1
      Tiger & Charlie - 2022 PNC Championship #2
       
       
       
       
       
      • 28 replies

×
×
  • Create New...