How far should you hit your irons? The YouTube Edition 😁

[SwingBlues]

Well, nothing better to do on a Tuesday night, found this fascinating YouTube from Golfing Focus about irons distances vs age, handicaps, swingspeeds and the ever contentious juicing/retro lofts & lengthening of irons.

 

So which golfer are you?

 

Enjoy 👍

 

 

 

Some screen shots I pulled from the YouTube...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChaosTheory]

I’m a 10 who is on the declining distance path.  Thanks to modern irons, my distances match the 10 index numbers shown.  Except for PW, but I swing that a little softer.

 

Very interesting collection of charts btw.  I have seen the video in my feed but haven’t watched it.

[SwingBlues]

2 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

I’m a 10 who is on the declining distance path.  Thanks to modern irons, my distances match the 10 index numbers shown.  Except for PW, but I swing that a little softer.

 

Very interesting collection of charts btw.  I have seen the video in my feed but haven’t watched it.

 

Yeah, it's a neat package of data he's packed together.

 

I am in the 0 bucket as far as iron/distance go for a guy whos in the pre mid 50s. For now, I feel like I am probably swinging it like I was when I was mid 40s with the very inefficient swing. Back then the lowest index was 3.3.

 

I'll add aside from the modern club, the modern teaching tools and technology like YouTube, cell phone cameras with SLO-MO, Trackman, GC4 etc has added tremendous knowledge pool that any person can find & access.

 

Long gone are the days where, I remember, the pro was the knowledge keep. Meeting him with a VHS camcorder that was $2,000+ and looking at the tapes in a VCR. Then go home, read the Golf magazines and the sketched "how to" section at the end of the magazine.

 

Dman, no wonder I could never fix my slice back then...😂

[mikpga]

Through practice and observation, I hit my clubs within my distance ranges…

 

 

[naval2006]

The WRXer category is naturally off the charts. 

[PoeKingShankspeare]

interesting.... I never have a set yardages in mind with my irons until I hit balls on the range before my round, or after the first two to three holes. Depending on what time of day I play, my Physical condition that day, the weather, and even what ball I'm playing with - my 7i can be 145 (carry) to 160's. 

 

I've played the same course twice on the same day. one par 3 played 164 (to the flag), before 7 am, I used 6i... later in the afternoon after 3pm, I used an 8i. And the 8i went longer (slight wind) lol... I don't like to set my distances in stone, every day is different for me. Likewise, I've seen guys who claim their PW/10 goes 130 only to be short. Then have a similar distance, only to fly the green with the same club and be confused.. "what the F....?" moment. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by PoeKingShankspeare

[Tfb003]

I don’t understand this data I don’t know a single scratch or even sub 5 hcp in real life that pulls 5 iron from 176 unless there is wind.

[PoeKingShankspeare]

3 minutes ago, Tfb003 said:

I don’t understand this data I don’t know a single scratch or even sub 5 hcp in real life that pulls 5 iron from 176 unless there is wind.

I know/knew two older seniors in their early 60's who are scratch and/or a 2... one carries his 6i 190 - 200, the other guy, his 6i is 155-160's.. 

[Pepperturbo]

Interesting charts, but not so much for a 60+, or like me 70+ and 4 index.  My guess, very few over 60 were included.  Thank God, I have never been average or let study's influence what is possible.   

 

At 70+, my 620 MB 47' PW = 112 carry, 35' 7i =148 carry, 31' 6i = 160 carry, and 21' 3i = 188 carry.  Attributed to swing speed but more so, ball striking.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Pepperturbo

[Scooby555]

My averages in the chart are roughly Champions Tour average with 921 HotMetal but with Titleist AP2...well that's a different story.  I can hit a ball off the toe out past were the grooves end on the HM and it's about the same distance as a well struck ball with the AP2s lol

 

Lofts and tech in a club mean so much to my distance.  I play the easier to hit clubs cause well it's more fun.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Scooby555

[OnTheBag]

37 minutes ago, Tfb003 said:

I don’t understand this data I don’t know a single scratch or even sub 5 hcp in real life that pulls 5 iron from 176 unless there is wind.

I play against a pretty low cap (not quite 0 anymore, but I'm old).  My 176 club is a 6H.  Distance isn't everything.  What is more important is distance control.

[dfeldss]

I'm over PGA tour distance-wise but I'm a 10 HC trending the wrong way right now. Not fun!

[jonsnow]

1 hour ago, naval2006 said:

The WRXer category is naturally off the charts. 

We is all outliars, I mean outliers...

[scooterhd2]

Always pull data from multiple sources.

 

[Rbsiedsc]

I’m at a 5 distance wise but sit at a 20. Need to tighten my game up

[bladehunter]

4 hours ago, Tfb003 said:

I don’t understand this data I don’t know a single scratch or even sub 5 hcp in real life that pulls 5 iron from 176 unless there is wind.

Agree there.   Its in between 6 and 7 for the average  guys. If it’s calm and flat it’s a full 8 for the longer guys.  Maybe at sea level on a cool morning?  

[Chunkitgood]

A seven iron by any other name is a six iron, or maybe a five.

 

Does it matter how far you hit your seven iron if it is really a five iron?

 

That video understates loft changes.

 

Back when 4 degree gaps were standard you pretty much could rely on surprise consistent gaps.  With new lofts you can rely on consistent gaps…unless you strike the ball properly.

[ac6]

As a sweeper playing traditionally-lofted irons my distance slope is steeper and I go from PGA tour distance at 3I to something more like a 5-10 hcp distance at PW, lol. Such is life when you usually get only -1 AOA on everything

[OnTheBag]

1 hour ago, Rbsiedsc said:

I’m at a 5 distance wise but sit at a 20. Need to tighten my game up

Proof that there's more to this game than distance.  My driver on a good day is 235, but I can chip and putt with anyone.  Neither is a fully determining factor.  

[Gohigh]

I think more relevant and useful information is...

 

HOW CLOSE DO YOU NEED TO HIT YOUR 7 IRON (AND OTHER CLUBS) TO YOUR TARGET?

[phizzy30]

12 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

A seven iron by any other name is a six iron, or maybe a five.

 

Does it matter how far you hit your seven iron if it is really a five iron?

 

That video understates loft changes.

 

Back when 4 degree gaps were standard you pretty much could rely on surprise consistent gaps.  With new lofts you can rely on consistent gaps…unless you strike the ball properly.

Agree.  With the players distance and GI/SGI irons these days that have the ridiculous lofts and polymer inserts, any hacker can say they hit their 7 iron 200 yards when in reality it's a jacked up 5-6 iron with a hot face. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by phizzy30

[jonsnow]

16 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Agree.  With the players distance and GI/SGI irons these day that have the ridiculous lofts and polymer inserts, any hacker can say they hit their 7 iron 200 yards when in reality it's a jacked up 5-6 iron with a hot face. 

Not me. If I've got 200 yards a headcover is coming off. I'm tired of telling myself I can hit my 4-iron 200 yards when in reality it maxes out around 185.

[North Butte]

10 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

Agree.  With the players distance and GI/SGI irons these days that have the ridiculous lofts and polymer inserts, any hacker can say they hit their 7 iron 200 yards when in reality it's a jacked up 5-6 iron with a hot face. 

I'm a good example of "any hacker" and I don't care if they jacked the loft on a 7-iron down to 15 degrees it ain't going 200 yards. I play a 45-1/2" 12-degree driver that is the only club that goes over 200 yards, just barely.

 

All these charts and averages are preposterous from the off. I play with double-digit handicap young guys who can belt a 7-iron onto the green from 170 or 180 yards and I also play with low-single-digit 75-year-olds who hit fairway woods from 160 yards. For myself, I happen to hit my 7-iron exactly like the silly chart predicts but I'm probably the only person in my usual playing group who would land right on the average line like that. 

 

[gators78]

Interesting find. From a quick search here’s a paper on PGA Tour course lengths to compare the distances. Sawgrass in 1983 measured 6,857 yards on the scorecard, and now it’s 7,189.  All of the strokes gained data points to how important it is to be effective from the 150-225 yard range, more options at the higher yardages isn’t a terrible idea, especially when you don’t have to swing faster.  

[jholz]

15 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Agree there.   Its in between 6 and 7 for the average  guys. If it’s calm and flat it’s a full 8 for the longer guys.  Maybe at sea level on a cool morning?  

 

This kind of thing always trips me out. What lofts are these individuals playing?

 

176 at sea level and calm is going to be 5i all day long for me. I play i210's with standard lofts.

 

Perhaps we have a different opinion concerning what an "average" golfer is?

 

I mean, I've never considered myself a long hitter and I know I have flaws in my swing, but seriously, I don't see "average" golfers hitting the ball these distances.

 

If they were, people would be routinely outdriving me on the course. As it stands, anyone who hits it longer than me is a rarity.

[Tfb003]

5 minutes ago, jholz said:

 

This kind of thing always trips me out. What lofts are these individuals playing?

 

176 at sea level and calm is going to be 5i all day long for me. I play i210's with standard lofts.

 

Perhaps we have a different opinion concerning what an "average" golfer is?

 

I mean, I've never considered myself a long hitter and I know I have flaws in my swing, but seriously, I don't see "average" golfers hitting the ball these distances.

 

If they were, people would be routinely outdriving me on the course. As it stands, anyone who hits it longer than me is a rarity.

we were discussing average scratch or even low single digit. Definitely not average golfer.

[bladehunter]

31 minutes ago, jholz said:

 

This kind of thing always trips me out. What lofts are these individuals playing?

 

176 at sea level and calm is going to be 5i all day long for me. I play i210's with standard lofts.

 

Perhaps we have a different opinion concerning what an "average" golfer is?

 

I mean, I've never considered myself a long hitter and I know I have flaws in my swing, but seriously, I don't see "average" golfers hitting the ball these distances.

 

If they were, people would be routinely outdriving me on the course. As it stands, anyone who hits it longer than me is a rarity.

Average scratch golfer.  Not average golfer.  
 

 

in the circles I play in , it’s 30-55 year olds mostly with a few 55-60ish guys who are scratch.  Or better.   The oldest one I can name is around +2 ( if club pros kept handicaps ) now but has probably been +4 before. He’s just about to turn 60. I texted him  this morning and asked him his stock 7 iron.  He said “ 167 with a draw and I can cut that down to 160-162 with a fade.  “.  He is a Wilson staff club pro and uses their forged CB - new set each model cycle.    So a pitching wedge around 46. If you put a “modern” loft in his hands he’s at least a club longer. 
 

my stock 7 iron is 170 on the button.  And that’s not a he-man swing. I can pump it up over 180 but it’s a off balance Hail Mary reserved for deep rough or situations where long is dead and short is best if I miss. And that’s off a 48 degree pw.  The t100 in my signature are weak , but I’m playing an MB currently anyway.   And I’m nowhere near the longest guy i play against.  
 

you also can’t really compare driver distances to iron distances.  I hit my irons far.  Especially short irons.  But driver is very dependent on strike and spin for me. The variance between good days and bad are huge for me. Just not that way with irons. 
 

last part is scratch players who report being so from the front tees.  It’s a contentious topic.  But there are plenty who claim this and aren’t really.  A real “scratch “ player is someone who will show up anywhere and play from whatever box the gambling group is playing from and ask for no shots.  In my opinion.  
 

 

when I said maybe at sea level I meant maybe then it would be a 5.  I’m at 984 feet above sea level if that means anything.  I don’t know the metrics for ball travel above sea level. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by bladehunter

[North Butte]

4 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Average scratch golfer.  Not average golfer.  
 

 

in the circles I play in , it’s 30-55 year olds mostly with a few 55-60ish guys who are scratch.  Or better.   The oldest one I can name is around +2 ( if club pros kept handicaps ) now but has probably been +4 before. He’s just about to turn 60. I texted him  this morning and asked him his stock 7 iron.  He said “ 167 with a draw and I can cut that down to 160-162 with a fade.  “.  He is a Wilson staff club pro and uses their forged CB - new set each model cycle.    So a pitching wedge around 46. If you put a “modern” loft in his hands he’s at least a club longer. 
 

my stock 7 iron is 170 on the button.  And that’s not a he-man swing. I can pump it up over 180 but it’s a off balance Hail Mary reserved for deep rough or situations where long is dead and short is best if I miss. And that’s off a 48 degree pw.  The t100 in my signature are weak , but I’m playing an MB currently anyway.   And I’m nowhere near the longest guy i play against.  
 

you also can’t really compare driver distances to iron distances.  I hit my irons far.  Especially short irons.  But driver is very dependent on strike and spin for me. The variance between good days and bad are huge for me. Just not that way with irons. 
 

last part is scratch players who report being so from the front tees.  It’s a contentious topic.  But there are plenty who claim this and aren’t really. I’m not talking about anybody who can’t play off the back tees anywhere.  A real scratch player is someone who will show up anywhere and play from whatever box the gambling group is playing from and ask for no shots.  In my opinion.  

I think that you are describing a "good golfer" but the term "Scratch" was pretty appropriated by USGA when they created the first handicap system. According to them it means someone with approximately a 0.0 handicap. 

 

In any objective sense, a guy who can maintain a 0 index playing a 7,400 yard course is clearly a more capable golfer than one who is 0 index from 5,400 yards but his handicap would balloon up if he played the tips. But like it or not, they are both Scratch golfers. 

 

Now having said, that keep in mind that course handicaps now reflect the set of tees one plays. If a 0.0 index were to play my home course from old-guy tees (5,600-ish?) his Course Handicap would be around +4 and if he played the tournament tees (7,300-ish?) it would be more like +2. It's unfortunate that we're all used to discussing "Scratch" in terms of handicap index. If we'd do it in terms of Course Handicap from the tees a golfer usually plays then comparisons across ages and such would be more meaningful. 

 

Which is why things like these charts are graphs are so dumb. They are plotted the literal handicap index versus an AVERAGE distance with certain clubs. But that average covers such a wide range of golfers that relatively few of them actually hit their clubs within plus or minus 10 yards of that average number.  I guess they'd need one chart for things like "Scratch golfer ages 30 to 50 playing off a 48-degree PW in their iron set".  

[bladehunter]

6 minutes ago, North Butte said:

I think that you are describing a "good golfer" but the term "Scratch" was pretty appropriated by USGA when they created the first handicap system. According to them it means someone with approximately a 0.0 handicap. 

 

In any objective sense, a guy who can maintain a 0 index playing a 7,400 yard course is clearly a more capable golfer than one who is 0 index from 5,400 yards but his handicap would balloon up if he played the tips. But like it or not, they are both Scratch golfers. 

 

Now having said, that keep in mind that course handicaps now reflect the set of tees one plays. If a 0.0 index were to play my home course from old-guy tees (5,600-ish?) his Course Handicap would be around +4 and if he played the tournament tees (7,300-ish?) it would be more like +2. It's unfortunate that we're all used to discussing "Scratch" in terms of handicap index. If we'd do it in terms of Course Handicap from the tees a golfer usually plays then comparisons across ages and such would be more meaningful. 

 

Which is why things like these charts are graphs are so dumb. They are plotted the literal handicap index versus an AVERAGE distance with certain clubs. But that average covers such a wide range of golfers that relatively few of them actually hit their clubs within plus or minus 10 yards of that average number.  I guess they'd need one chart for things like "Scratch golfer ages 30 to 50 playing off a 48-degree PW in their iron set".  

Right but.  That was the conversation   Good ( scratch ) golfers.
 

Take the scratch guy who builds a handicap off the 5400 tees.  Now move him back to 7200.  He’s probably a 4 or so course handicap now. Right ?    So yes I know that technically they can use the term and be correct per the USga.  But if we’re talking distances it doesn’t make sense to include the “ scratch guy “ who’s playing from 5400.   Or maybe it doesn’t matter because it’s so few it won’t skew the total ?  

[North Butte]

Just now, bladehunter said:

Right but.  That was the conversation   Good ( scratch ) golfers.
 

Take the scratch guy who builds a handicap off the 5400 tees.  Now move him back to 7200.  He’s probably a 4 or so course handicap now. Right ?    So yes I know that technically they can use the term and be correct per the USga.  But if we’re talking distances it doesn’t make sense to include the “ scratch guy “ who’s playing from 5400.   Or maybe it doesn’t matter because it’s so few it won’t skew the total ?  

In today's population of golfers, with so many playing regularly into their 70's and 80's I think that's very much an issue with talking about these kinds of "average" this or "typical" that. 

 

I think if someone were doing a serious analysis (which to be clear, the original video that initiated this thread was NOT) it would behoove them to talk about categories of Course Handicap from each golfer's usual tees. There's just too many strokes difference when you look at the range of tee boxes at modern courses (in USA at least).

 

This hypothetical guy who is a 4hcp from the tips and a plus-handicap from the way-forward tees, that can be a five or six shot difference (or even more if it's a double-digit index playing from way-back vs. way-forward). Anyone would accept that a +2hcp and a 4hcp have different capabilities and any so-called analysis needs to reflect that, even if they both happen to have 0.0 indices.